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Humility
(no login)
98.87.37.202

Starry Host

November 15 2013, 10:08 AM 

He'll get a demerit for violating #8.

Anyone shows need for improvement.

 
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Humility
(no login)
98.87.37.202

Starry Host

November 15 2013, 10:19 AM 

Head Shepherd,

I'm glad that you're still around.

That is very perceptive for you to call Ira North a change agent.

But many will disagree with you.

Tell us, Head Shepherd, what is the future for the Madison Church? Do you predict growth in number?

What do you project as the future typical worship?



 
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Head Shepherd
(no login)
166.147.120.23

Starry Host

November 15 2013, 10:54 AM 

Humility,
Anyone who would disagree with me about Ira being an agent of change didn't know him or the Madison church very well. He was on the front edge of change in churches during his time. If fact articles and discussions, much like these were had about him. Many bashing him the way you now bash this generation's movers and shakers. I would challenge anyone's thinking that doesn't think he was a change agent!
As for growth, yes eventually. There will be a slight dip over the next few year as they continue to sift out those not willing to invest in the future but are stuck in the myth that returning to the "old paths" will cause growth and stubilty. And in some way return Madison to its "glory days". Remember the "glory days" were built in fast pace, "accelerated" change. Being front runners in worship, children's programming, building gyms and fellowship halls, etc. is want the "glory days" were all about.

We all know the future...the future is now! Look how their kids worship. Two words: both/and


 
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Humility
(no login)
98.87.37.202

Both/And

November 16 2013, 10:33 AM 

Both innovative/and shrinking

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Starry Host

November 16 2013, 11:44 AM 

Are you the shepherd of the HEAD? It's true: Ira fell into the Social Gospel because he didn't know the meaning of CHURCH or WORSHIP: there is no reason that he should have known.

The Methodist Social Gospel pretty well destroyed the Methodist's foundations which also got twisted in the OKelly Methodist roots of the Christian Church.

The gospel is the only POWER to salvation: not the gospel of the cross but the gospel of the resurrection which validated the teachings of Christ in the prophets and apostles. A Church of Christ is built upon or EDUCATED by the Prophets and Apostles with Christ supplying both.

The LAW OF GIVING (Madison's Babylonian Tithing)was that JIM was to save up a sum BY HIMSELF weekly to fulfil their pledge to feed the DESTITUTE meaning worse than Street People. Paul said that even THAT was not a command. Along comes the builders of INSTITUTIONS and drives wedges by branding anyone who did not support their PARA-CHURCH Institution invented by the preachers with elders following like Mary's Little Lamb.

You simply cannot violate the ONE PIECE PATTERN for A School of Christ without diluting the Word and CLAIMING for yourself the power to ENHANCE the PATTERN to GO, Preach, Baptize, Teach what Christ COMMANDED TO BE TAUGHT.

Good intentions will never abrogate the universal Law: if you build a HOUSE or an INSTITUTION and get it up and running then SATAN will come and take it away from you mocking all along that HE has the power of the Red Herring or Ponzi. The Lying Wonders from lots of recorded history PROVES that he has the MOCKING power when boylings and girlings sing, clap, pick and grin. Civilized Greek society, in our terms, tarred and feathered them and ran them out of their territory.

Old Phoebe as the SPECIAL SERVANT DEACONESS, is really defined as working AT Cenchrea (church was in Corinth). Her government and church job was to sponsor visitors or preachers landing at Cenchrea and helped get them housing and a JOB and "papers." If they did not work neither shall they eat and her job was to book passage for them OUT of her area of work. Even those claiming to be apostles were given a week or two to tell THEM what they didn't already know but then find them a job or a ticked on the latest Donkey heading west.

 
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Humility
(no login)
98.87.37.202

Noninstitutional

November 18 2013, 9:16 AM 

Current events do encourage us to look at the non-institutional position from a different point of view.

For example, institutions can "evolve" to become a nightmare.

The church can be called an institution.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.242.224

Re: Stary Host

November 15 2013, 11:27 AM 

"We must be propetially [sic] young..."

"Propetially"? Perhaps the desired word is "perpetually." happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Stary Host

November 16 2013, 12:40 AM 

Bill,

This is no time for "english Grammer." sad.gif

To this day you haven't really understood the preposition "OF" in the expression: "the holy spirit OF God." "Grieve not the holy spirit OF God" (Ephesians 4:30). In addition, you have ignored the explanation that "spirit" is a noun and "holy" is an adjective describing the improper noun "spirit" -- "the holy spirit of God" is hardly the name of a "divine being."

In contrast is the expression: "the unholy spirit OF man."

In either case, the [unholy] spirit of man cannot be a separate being from man or the holy spirit of God cannot be a separate being from God.

Here is your problem, Bill:

(1) Scripture says: "the holy spirit OF God."
(2) Trinity/Bill says: "the holy spirit IS God."

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.104

Re: Stary Host

November 16 2013, 1:53 AM 

No, we must definitely NOT have English grammar, especially since the preposition "OF" is not involved in this case. Therefore, when a person says, "We must be propetially young...," that person is obviously speaking in an "unknown tongue." There must be an interpretation, lest there be no understanding. I provided the proper interpretation: "We must be PERPETUALLY young..." happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Stary Host

November 16 2013, 3:26 AM 

Wow! You didn't even get the joke about "english Grammer." (You took the bait.) You may be the only one who didn't understand "propetially."

The End.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.205.34

Re: Starry Host

November 16 2013, 1:04 PM 

Yes, Donnie, I understood your vain attempt to be funny with "english Grammer." So, we'll give you a token "ha ha" to soothe your wounded ego. You're just miffed because I corrected you for the record.

Did you think "propetially" was a real word? Evidently you did, because you let it slide by. But we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you thought Ira North was speaking in an "unknown tongue." Now words in an unknown tongue require an interpretation to be meaningful. Likely interpretations for "propetially" include "prophetically," "proportionately," and "perpetually." Given that North's statement implied that if we always remain young at heart, we are more likely to accept change, then the obvious interpretation of North's statement is, "We must be perpetually young..." If you had not been so obsessed with the preposition "OF," you would have seen all this right away. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Starry Host

November 16 2013, 1:33 PM 

Please stop, Bill. No one has asked you to "instruct." Your obsession.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.205.34

Re: Starry Host

November 16 2013, 1:55 PM 



[ . . . ]


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Nov 16, 2013 2:39 PM


 
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Humility
(no login)
98.87.37.202

Starry Host

November 16 2013, 6:43 AM 

Head Shepherd,

I notice a little hubris here, but we can overlook it since it is fairly common coming from the "Madison Church." Strange isn't it, that somehow it does not seem very natural to refer to it as "Madison Church of Christ." You have earned the abbreviated title.

I feel that, unlike Ira North and the church of his time, today's Madison has gotten so far ahead, that it is severed from the remaining brotherhood. So much that the leading members of Madison no longer want to be identified with the Churches of Christ. And the surrounding Churches of Christ no longer identify with Madison. This shows clearly in the lack of support from Churches of Christ after the 2013 flood.

The hope that you have of stability and then growth may never be realized, since you have severed your head from the body. Growth, if it is to come, will have to come entirely from your own energies. The membership gain you realized the last few years from alienated Church of Christ members is now drying up very quickly. Your growth will have to depend from your own converts, and this is a tall order. Perhaps you can get more members from the neighboring community and Pentecostal churches.

Ira North's connection with the Churches of Christ was something he never took for granted. His church roots ran deep into the surrounding counties.

One of your shepherds said "We haven't changed one salvation issue."

 
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Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: The Starry Host

November 15 2013, 6:31 AM 

Welcome Humility! I'm an old guy from North Alabama. I assume you are from the Nashville area. Are you male or female? I like to ensure my pronouns are proper when referring to new posters.

 
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Humility
(no login)
98.87.37.202

The Starry Host

November 15 2013, 10:46 AM 

Coach,

I am from of old. Since I sometimes take the feminist point of view, some want to know my gender. You can refer to me as "he." I will not be insulted.

Coach, what do you consider the scriptural parameters of change? How far do you want to go? What are the linchpins of change? I am thinking of such items as immersion (for remission of sins), Lord's Supper according to format of the gospels, weekly observance, scriptural name of church, format of singing, centrality of message preached, and leadership organization.

What are the "agreements" in the church that should not change? Where is your ground?

Where is the "red line."



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Starry Host

November 15 2013, 11:02 AM 

He says that God approved of David singing, dancing and stripping off naked: Godly Michal called it NUDO.

I knew a preacherling in Murfresboro, TN who said that this was an APPROVED PATTERN. I volunteered to join him next Sunday! An elder told me that two old, fat men would not do the job.

I keep thinking that our friend has that female "wannabe" complex but He won't take the dare. happy.gif

 
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Humility
(no login)
98.87.37.202

The Starry Host

November 15 2013, 11:18 AM 

The account of Michal despising David needs to be investigated very thoroughly.

She is the early type of non-instrumental, moral, and anti-aristocratic individual.

It's very strange that she is mentioned more in Church of Christ history.

She is also female, a conservative female, who does not think that leadership has the privilege to do sacrilege.

Rarely is she mentioned in the chronicles of "Great Women of the Bible."

Neither is "Abigail".

We need a re-reading of 1 Samuel through 2 Chronicles. They're very revealing.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Starry Host

November 15 2013, 2:12 PM 

Let's hear more. Michal was a 100% faithful friend and wife and after she questioned David's manhood he made certain that all of Saul's descendant were murdered including one offered up for human sacrifice. These were either Michal's children or her sisters. The point is that David saved only one cripple who could not question his status.

This simply proves that David was a typical oriental despot and a pattern ONLY for those who use tyranny to impose 'Levite Sorcerers.' And fitting the pattern they boast that "We USE Women."'

While they USE Deborah as their pattern, it was Deborah's SONG which taunted the lack of male warriors. And they USE Huldah but she was the only person in the kingdom apparently who had and understood the Law. She made certain that the males could not make off with the LAWS so they could make up their own.

Men have trouble grasping that God wants everyone to be peaceful and quiet so that "all might be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth." I am 83ish and I don't know of a single preacher so purpose driven.

So, yes, dare that we all be a Phoebe meaning a reliable servant maybe the only person Paul trusted with his message. I just can't see Phoebe prancing, pointing, puffing and foaming at the mouth preaching her own opinions.


 
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Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: The Starry Host

November 15 2013, 11:33 AM 

Humility, you did not answer my question. I will consider you a "female" by default. Sorry if I offend you.

 
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This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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