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The WORLD (musicators) A Great Tribulation: 2 Samuel.6

November 15 2013 at 1:51 PM
Ken Sublett  (Login Ken.Sublett)
from IP address

It will get worse but cheer up the signs are ripe and the FRUITS will fall. They MOCK the Regulative Principle claiming that they have "a" spirit guiding them and I doubt it not. The LOGOS means the Regulative or Governing Principle. Therefore, being ANTI-Logos they are ANTI-Christ Whose words in the Prophets and Apostles are the only teaching resource and they MARK FOR AVOIDANCE those wearing tutus and singing and clapping.

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George Weigel writes for First Things, Oct. 30, 2013, that alas, few Christians in the West seem aware of the Suffering Church, much less have it weigh on their Christian conscience.

Christians today live in the greatest tribulation-time in Christian history. More Christians were killed for fidelity to Christ in the 20th century than in the previous nineteen centuries of Christian history combined.

Wiegel cites the following examples of persecution from a recent issue ofTouchstone:

Some 1,200 Protestants are being imprisoned in shipping containers in Eritrean desert camps where torture is routine.
Mostafa Bordbar, a 27-year-old Christian convert, was arrested and charged with illegal gathering and participating in a house church in Iran.
Kazakh Christians, many of them converts from Islam, are encouraged, by the arrest and imprisonment of their pastors, to refrain from evangelism.
A Muslim leader in central Nigeria regularly abducts Christian girls and women and holds them captive in his home, to compel their conversion (or reversion) to Islam.
In Syria and Egypt, Christians live in daily fear for their lives where its open season on Christians.


Matthew 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
Matthew 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
Matthew 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
Matthew 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
Matthew 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Matthew 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Matthew 10:36 And a mans foes shall be they of his own household.

This will be CUT SHORT before God's Elect fall into the smokey pit with ABADDON, APOLLYON as the leader of the Musicians.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Nov 15, 2013 5:15 PM

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Re: The WORLD (musicators) A Great Tribulation: 2 Samuel.6

November 15 2013, 5:18 PM 

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David a man after God's own heart

November 16 2013, 6:49 AM 


Please explain that David was a man after God's own heart. 1 Samuel 13:14.

If David was vile, why was Jesus to be the Son of David, and honored to be in his lineage?

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Ken Sublett
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Re: David a man after God's own heart

November 16 2013, 11:23 AM 

"Often the music barely exceeded the level of organized noisemaking, especially when the purpose was to terrorize the enemy, as in Exod. 32:17-18; Judges 7:18-20. Other manifestations of functional music was the mocking song (Job 30:9) and the 'working songs' of harversters (Isa. 16:10; Jer 48:33) or the well-diggers (Num. 21:17). All this, however, alludes to the distinctly popular, nonartistic singing and playing; no professionals are as yet mentioned. When Amos (6:5) caustically chastises the nouveaux riches and their 'artistic' extravagance, he stressed for the first time the age-old feud between the professonal and dilettante (orig. tr):

They chant idle songs to the sound of the harp
and fancy to play their instruments like David. (The Int. Std. Bible Dict., p. 457

Of course David would have been executed if he played his harp in the slaughter pit or any presumed-holy house.

My grasp is that the PROPHETIC TYPES of a nation which refused to obey God is fulfilled by a SPIRITUAL ANTITYPE under the reign of the Second Adam and the Second David. David's redeeming quality is that as far as I know he never fell into idolatry. Although, His urge in the Awakening Psalms wanted to Awaken His Lyre so that He could Awaken the Dawn. John Hyrcanus thought that these awakening psalms were idolatrous and silenced them.

The Hebrew, lebab or heart, simply means that God choose David to be king. Remember, that the Israelites defined the nature of the first king and he failed to carry out God's commands to be a king. Remember also that the king was not to be the religious leader but the civil, military leader. Furthermore, God selected David when he was an innocent shepherd. He was KING over a MONARCHY which God did not command: Stephen says God turned them over to worship the starry host. The spiritual people always attended qahal, synagogue, ekklesia or Church of Christ (the ROCK) which QUARANTINED them from the not commanded Civil-Military-Clergy comples

When people are compared to David it is during his first ways and not his last ways:

And the Lord was with Jehoshaphat,
because he walked in the FIRST WAYS of his father David,
and sought not unto Baalim; 2Chr.17:3

"The quotation from Acts refers to David early in life, before he had fallen into those great sins which cast such a shadow upon his administration...This commendation is not absolute, but describes the character of David in comparison with that of Saul...It merely indicates a man whom God will approve, in distinction from Saul, who was rejected" (Haley's Bible Handbook, p. 222).

It was after the elders FIRED God as their king that God understood that they wanted a king to let them WORSHIP like the nations but this would be permitted for only a short time until God used the kings to carry out the captivity and death sentence imposed because of instrumental idolatry at Mount Sinai.

1 Sam 16:1 And the LORD said unto Samuel,
How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel?
fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite:
for I have provided me a king among his sons.

That just means that GOD PICKED David without endorsing his carrying out the captivity and death sentence. This was a TYPE which would validate Scripture when Jesus is of the SEED of David.

The Spirit OF Christ in the prophets speaks directly to Israel but includes Judah. The EXPERIMENT proved that a human king (senior pastor) could not save them spiritually or in a Civil-Military sense.

Hosea 13:9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.
Hosea 13:10 I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes?
Hosea 13:11 I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath.

The ANTITYPE is when elders are not APT as teachers and SET A PASTOR over the flock but too often they hire wolves and not shepherds who FEED the lambs rather than ENTERTAIN the goats.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Nov 16, 2013 11:26 AM

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Re: David a man after God's own heart

November 16 2013, 3:05 PM 

The Jews truly believed that David's House or Kingdom would be restored in a physical sense. Messiah would be their king and defeat all of their enemies. I

Acts 13:21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him,
.....he raised up unto them David to be their king; whom also he gave testimony, and said,
.....I have found David the son of Jesse,
.....a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

The MAN David is quiet different from the Seed of David whose qualities are defined as spiritual qualities. In Acts 7 it is clear that God promised David a TENT but SOLOMON built God a PHYSICAL HOUSE. But, God does not dwell in houses built by human hands. The Jews understood that Stephen was saying that God did not command KING, kingdom, temple, animal slaughter or the loud soothsaying or sorcery with instruments. God had ABANDONED them to worship the starry host. However, the godly seed attended synagogue or school of the Word and were limited in travel to keep them away from the horrors of the HOUSE David thought God had promised to him

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David,
.....that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him,
..... that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh,
.....he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ,
.....that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

The FLESHLY David was dead and rotted in his grave.

Acts 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God,
.....according to his promise, raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

The Carnal David as type could neither save the nation nor their spirits. The kings god gave them in His anger carried out the captivity and death sentence. The Spiritual David DELIVERS us from "Babylonian Captivity" but the CARNAL men are still tasked to try to restore Babylonianism
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
.....which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,
.....according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship,
.....for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Romans 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

The people who trust in the FLESHLY David failed to grasp the TYPE which was to be fulfiled in a spiritual sense by a Son of GOD. What David said is not what David Did.

God PICKED David to carry out His Civil-Military will but God PICKED Jesus to carry out His Spiritual Will. I believe that the distinction between the physical and spiritual denies that "David a man after God's own heard" means that God honored him is SPITE of David's running through the catalog of sins. Halal 150 is not a psalm and it does not give authority for people to "lie, cheat and steal the church house of widows" because the David pattern tells them that God COMMANDED instruments. David's forgivness for going into the Holy Place (a secular type of the Church) because he was starving proves that by God's command if He had even gone into the slaughter pit much less the holy place with or without his harp he was to be EXECUTED.

The Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 1 and Jeremiah 7 and elsewhere that God did NOT command king, kingdom, temple, animal slaughter or the Jacob-cursed Levites to acts as Exorcists in an EARTHLY KINGDOM out of which (I believe) the 120 were the tiny remnant still living when Jesus Came out of several millions.

It should not be disturbing that the Old Testament is the history of the Hebrew People and not a history of the universe. All nations have both a Civil-Military-Clergy component BUT also a spiritual component. Christ provided that spiritual school of the Word and QUARANTINED the godly people FROM the HOUSE David authorized when God promised him a tent or family. The Spirit OF Christ made it a death sentence to be near or into any Babylonish "holy place". The Holy Spirit OF Christ defines the SECULAR Civil-Military-Clergy complex as robbers and parasites. At the same time God gave them kings IN HIS ANGER to abandon them to the worship of the starry host. Abaddon or Apollon was identified as a sun god and John warnes that it will be the SPIRITUS OF ABADDON who will be the LEADERS OF THE MUSES. The muses were the SHEPHERDS but also dirty adulteresses (selling any body part or skill in the name of Christ). John called them SORCERERS and they will be cast into the Lake of Fire. KING David's Levite instrument players (as well as Miriam" performed SOOTHSAYING which is used to mean SORCERY where history knows that instrumental notes means to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Nov 16, 2013 5:05 PM

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David a Man after God's Own Heart

November 16 2013, 5:21 PM 

This is a thoroughly interesting discussion, Ken. It is certainly a different explanation of the Old Testament than we are used to.

Concerning instrumental music, while on the Internet I found this comment,

I regularly use earplugs in most evangelical churches these days ... My home church, my brother-in-law's church, worship at my daughter's college, as well as other functions. I simply carry earplugs with me at all times (except when I forget and often feel compelled to leave the auditorium or sanctuary during music). Frankly, I find it a bit off-putting ... But good earplugs are better than any alternative I've found.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: David a Man after God's Own Heart

November 16 2013, 8:52 PM 

If men go to a school to get BRANDED as a preacher that has come to mean as a "pastor." That means Meomograph101a, outline collection201a and a summer seminar getting authority as a Psychologal Counselor. Don't blame the preachers: neither elders or members in the masses want to be bothered by anything after WORSHIP HOURS. However, not even the highest level of Greek Scholarship have I found one who TRANSLATES and IMPOSES beyond a simple lexicon. Even at the highest level they seem to think that words are DEFINED whereas the Lexicon shows how the word was used at the time of the writers. That would demand a high level of scholarship in the classics. From the wilderness onward Christ understood that at the highest level "doctors of the law take away the key to knowledge." That's fine from the Church in the Wilderness onward: don't expect too much, just PREACH the WORD for Comfort and Doctrine. That would unity all of the people on the earth.

When they quote the church fathers it is often from a textbook which twists the actual text now made available for everyone with a simple computer. Here, for instance, is what the historic Scholars who never got paid for preaching but for teaching what the text taught:

John Chrysostom whom they twist to prove that the fathers had nothing bad to say about music, like all Bible scholars, understood that the SYSTEM apostates want to RESTORE was abandonment to pagan, musical idolatry:

What wonder that ye know not Christ, seeing ye knew not Moses, and God Who was manifested by such wonders?
.....But they not only knew Him not:
.....they also insulted in another way, by their idol making.
..... "Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven" (v. 42.)
.....Hence these same "customs" date their origin, hence the sacrifices:
.....they were themselves the first that made sacrifices to their idols! For that is why it is marked,

Hence these same "customs" date their origin, hence the sacrifices:
.....they were themselves the first that made sacrifices to their idols!
.....For that is why it is marked,

Editor's Note 7: dia gar touto epishmainetai. The meaning is: Stephen was accused of speaking against "the customs,"-sacrifices, temple, feasts, etc. Therefore he significantly points to that critical conjuncture. from which these "customs" date their introduction: namely, the Provocation at Horeb.
.....Prior to that, he tells of "living oracles," life-giving precepts:
.....after it, and as its consequence, sacrifices, etc.,
.....those statutes which were not good, and ordinances by which a man shall not live, God says by Ezekiel.

Not a word of sacrifice till then: and the first mention is, of the sacrifices offered to the calf. In like manner, "they rejoiced," "the people ate and drank, and rose up to play:" and in consequence of this, the feasts were prescribed: kai eufrainonto, fhsin: dia touto kai eortai.-'Epishmainetai might be rendered, "he marks," "puts a mark upon it" (so the innovator, who substitutes, touto kai Dauid epishmainomenoj legei): we take it passively, "there is a mark set over it-it is emphatically denoted." In the active, the verb taken intransitively means

"to betoken or announce itself," "make its first appearance."-

In the Treatise adv. Judaeos, iv. ยง6. tom. i. 624. C. St. Chrysostom gives this account of the legal sacrifices: "To what purpose unto Me is the multitude of your sacrifices? etc. (Isaiah i., 11, ff.)

Do ye hear how it is most plainly declared, that God did not from the first require these at your hands? Had He required them, He would have obliged those famous saints who were before the Law to observe this practice.
.....`Then wherefore has He permitted it now?
.....In condescension to your infirmity. As a physician in his treatment of a delirious patient, etc.:

thus did God likewise. For seeing them so frantic in their lust for sacrifices, that they were ready, unless they got them, to desert to idols: nay not only ready, but that they had already deserted, thereupon He permitted sacrifices. And that this is the reason, is clear from the order of events.

After the feast which they made to the demons, then it was that He permitted sacrifices: all but saying: `Ye are mad, and will needs sacrifice: well then, at any rate sacrifice to Me. 0'"-(What follows may serve to illustrate the brief remark a little further on, Kai h aixmalwsia kathgoria thj kakiaj.)
....."But even this, He did not permit to continue to the end, but by a most wise method,
.....withdrew them from it ...
For He did not permit it to be done in any place of the whole world,
.....but in Jerusalem only. Anon, when for a short time
..........they had sacrificed, he destroyed the city.
Had He openly said, Desist, they, such was their insane passion for sacrificing, would not readily have complied. But now perforce, the place being taken away, He secretly withdrew them from their frenzy."
So here: "Even the captivity impeaches the wickedness (which was the cause of the permission of sacrifice.")

If none of the Monarchy was commanded, and God gave them kings in His anger because the elders (always) flunked God's conditional sentencing of the nation to worship the stary host, then God hand picking David (after His Heart or decision) can speak only for the ABANDONED "IDOLATRY OF NATIONHOOD" and not to God's CHANGING His mind about the LAWS OF WORSHIP.

To his considerable credit David never once got close to any sacrificial "worship center" and sang and performed instrumental music as a worship leader.

That is why MANY (most) are called but FEW (a puny number) are chosen or elected or called out of the WORLD for whom Jesus does not pray.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

PETER SAYS: Baptism Saves us.
THE ANGELS OF BLIGHT: Your faith only saves you.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: The WORLD (musicators) A Great Tribulation: 2 Samuel.6

November 16 2013, 8:10 PM 

Brandon Scott Thomas of the ZOE (Lucifer) group has made a profession out of teaching churches how to transition to the Musical Worship Teams was also teaching them how to infiltrate instrumental music. What they call ACappella is a steal word from a cappella which was the Pope's castrated Opry singers using a form of harmony called ORGANUM or "after the pipe organ." These SISTER churches of the MOTHER CHURCH will use the funds of the non-instrumentalists to procure their MISSIONAL CHURCHES demanding Apostles, Prophets and instrumental music: all forms of psychological violence to silence the cheap seats.

You may remember that Highland Church in Abilene boasts of being change leaders from the 1950s: that's when they alienated those they branded as ANTI just because they would not pick the widow's purse to fund their own program which validates the Sublet Law 101a: you build a temple, mega church or program and Satan WILL come.

I think I finally discovered that John T. Willis is the Angel of Blight (hope he isn't a cousin). Being virtually worshipped as an old testament scholar does not prevent him from either being Bible illiterate or one who is TASKED to be the ANTI-logos many have learned to hate as the Regulative Principle. Highland has gobbled up the old Central Church and they hold GRACE FELLOWSHIP there on Sunday Night to seek the street people. Here is the PATTERN of being LOUD and LOUSY as a way to INTIMIDATE people: History notes that group music intended to defend the Alpha Male. They boasted just too much about their maleness.

The Greek literature calls that ROBBING TEMPLES.

They may not be permitted to know that Paul said that GRACE hath appeared teaching us to DENY what they are marketing. Or, that salvation by grace through faith is to keep us SAFE from the same Madison Madness Paul defines in the first part of the chapter. When you read this you read the whole ACU proof of strong delusions.

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Try That One Again Ken

November 17 2013, 9:23 AM 

Ken, When you speak of Amos 6:5 at being against David using instruments I really know then and there that all you have done is regurgitated what someone else has taught you instead of trying to understand what it really means.
Amos 6
5 That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David;

LIKE David....never was intended to say that David was wrong in his use of worshiping God with instruments. It just used David as an example as one who did use instruments.

THUS .......instruments of musick, like David."

YOU ASSUME....that the negative connotation of this verse was also given to David. Why? Because you were taught this by someone else, and it sounded good to you. Even though it makes you look like you haven't studied this passage, you continue to stick your neck out there....because you have nothing else to go on.

Who else would the author want to use as an example of one who used instruments? The author knew that David was known for his pleasing God with his worship to Him. THEREFORE.....the author used David.


The "handle" you're using is tooooooo long.

"Servant For Him (remember?) happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif " has been shortened. For the record.

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Nov 17, 2013 10:48 PM

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Try That One Again Ken

November 17 2013, 12:14 PM 

Yes, I remember: the date 2003 is a date which will live in infamy when you began the effort to expel me. And, yet, here I am still quoting Scripture which you still cannot understand.

You missed Elder101a which commands that you "teach that which has been taught in the Prophets and Apostles, which was validated by Jesus of Nazareth and left "for our learning" in those explained Prophets.

Both Jesus and the Apostles radically repudiate the Civil - Military - Clergy complex. The command is to PREACH the Word by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine.

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November 17 2013, 4:39 PM 

This seems to capture the Civil-Military-Clergy Complex:

So the Clergy become part of the Civil-Military Complex through instrumental music, by which they cloud the minds of would-be Christ followers to depart from the spiritual to the carnal.

The uncompromised Word of God should be sought by Christian student, but they can be deceived to adopt the role of Clergy by their compromise with the Civil-Military Complex. This compromise promotes a full-blown Civil-Military-Clergy Complex, which is hard to unseat in power.

The power of instrumental music is shown in its association with the military, to shatter the nerves of the enemy, and to exude power psychologically. In the same way, it is used to discomfit the student of the Word of God, so that many churches adopt the Civil-Military role of the church, by which they shun the spiritual design and goals of the church.

With a full blown Civil-Military-Clergy Complex, the church is melded into the government, as well as a multitude of false doctrines. The Written Word of God is forsaken so that the church loses any leverage to change a nonspiritual society.

The exaltation King David was underwrote by a CMC Complex in a graduation of stages--beginning with the necessity of coercive law because the people engraved the golden calf, and continuing to the rejection of God through adoption of the Kingship. The only thing to continue to prop up this civilian power was the kingship and taxation itself. The undoing of the CMC Complex was the complete collapse of morality by which the CMC Complex was thrown into absolute destruction in the Babylonian captivity.

It was in the depths of this captivity that Judaism realized that the CMC Complex must be completely rejected, and that through suffering and service (and rejection of CMC Complex) the Savior was to arise. He would make all follower students of the Word.

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Re: Try That One Again Ken

November 17 2013, 5:05 PM 

Ken wrote:

David was a KING and Kings make war and not worship. The Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites prophesied with instruments but they were not inspired prophets: they were soothsayer-sorcerers. When you praise the king or queen with bagpipes you intend to make the enemy deficate and run for their life. ALL of the praise words intend to FORCE a god to come to your aid. In the case of David's army the TREAT was:

We are going to ROB you
We are going to RAPE you to proove our superiority
Then we are going to RAPTURE your head off.

Religious PRAISE SINGING intends and does the work of the Alpha Billy Goat to instill a laded burden or "spiritual anxiety through religious ritual" to intimidate you and warn you NOT to open your mouth unless it is a SALVATION ISSUE.

Jesus said that the kingdom DOES NOT COME to such OBSERVATIONS, that the kingdom is WITHIN you and worship is IN THE PLACE of the sanctified spirit as we GIVE ATTENDANCE to the WORD (Logos or Regulative Principle). Therefore, the Progressive churches, as Joseph Campbell warned, CRACK OFF TO THE ARCHAIC when their old religion does not meet THEIR needs or harvest enough FLEECE.

And I write:

I have seen the times when music overwhelmed the Lord's Supper as well as the invitation--all the private thoughts of the participants in the Lord's Supper and all the intents of the invitation of the speaker were overwhelmed by singing. Both happening simultaneously. In both cases, I see the WORD replaced by the noise of singing.

The combination of instrumental music, militarism, flag-waving, and noise was also present in the time of David Lipscomb when he saw the Word being overwhelmed by such activities. It was not the instrumental music alone, but it was hand-maiden to militarism and flag-waving and a desecration of the Word. These were manifestations of the Civil-Military-Clergy Complex. Its result was strife, war, death, defeat, and poverty.

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Nov 17, 2013 11:21 PM

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Re: Try That One Again Ken

November 17 2013, 8:13 PM 

That's a strange IP you have Ken. happy.gif


A certain portion of the text (including the poster's name) can be inadvertently edited ... and overlooked.

It appears that the "Ken wrote:" segment was quoted by Humility from one of Ken's messages under the "Jason Shepherd" thread.

In this case, the poster's name has been changed back to Humility.

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Nov 17, 2013 11:18 PM

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Re: Try That One Again Ken

November 18 2013, 1:39 PM 

Donnie, thanks for the reply and the correction. happy.gif

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November 19 2013, 10:32 AM 

Yes, that is correct.

Just an accidental change to Poster's name.

No harm done.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Correction

November 19 2013, 11:08 AM 

That's Good! anything to keep Coach from going First Class.

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Re: Correction

November 19 2013, 11:13 PM 

I think Donnie is a "First Class" moderator. It's a tough job that he handles very well. JMHO.

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Re: Correction

November 20 2013, 11:13 AM 

Yes, I imagine the moderator's job would be very tough, given the overwhelming flood of responses that have been pouring into this site lately.

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Literal vs Dry Humor

November 21 2013, 8:55 AM 

"Yes, I imagine the moderator's job would be very tough, given the overwhelming flood of responses that have been pouring into this site lately."

Just think, if such a dry comment were made in the scriptures, would we take it literally?

Are there any such statements in the Bible? That is, are there statements that are intended to be taken to mean just the opposite of their literal interpretation?

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Re: Literal vs Dry Humor

November 21 2013, 1:09 PM 

Did Jesus have a humorous side? "And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men" (Matt. 4:18-19 KJV).

Although His comment was witty, Jesus was being quite literal there. Did Jesus ever say anything that He really didn't mean? Did Jesus ever use pure verbal irony, where He deliberately said the opposite of what He meant? I cannot recall any account in Scripture.

Jesus did use metaphors, for example, when He described Himself as the living bread that came down from heaven (John 6:48-51). Jesus meant what He preached, because the Gospel wasn't something about which He made jokes. Jesus' approach to the Gospel was far unlike the comedy shtick that many preachers use today to hold their audiences captive.

Jesus also used hyperbole to indicate unlimited forgiveness. Example: "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven" (Matt. 18:21-22 KJV). Jesus meant that there was to be no limit to the number of times we were to forgive others. Only the hopelessly obtuse would keep count and withhold forgiveness after having said, "I forgive you" 490 times.

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

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