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Bill
(no login)
74.179.209.250

Re: Literal vs Dry Humor

November 21 2013, 6:49 PM 

Of course, when Jesus says that He is the living bread that came down from heaven, He is being both metaphorical and literal. That Jesus is the "living bread" is metaphorical, while it is a literal fact that Jesus temporarily left heaven and descended to earth to be born in the flesh. When His time on earth was finished, Jesus ascended back into heaven where He had been before, as the Scriptures teach.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Literal vs Dry Humor

November 21 2013, 10:42 PM 

But it was "the living bread" which came down from heaven [past tense] -- not Jesus. Bill, your substitution is incorrect; your deductive reasoning is fallacious.

Now, Jesus IS the living bread [present tense] -- this is correct. He says: "I AM [present tense] the living bread" [NOW]; He does not say: "I WAS [past tense] the living bread which came down from heaven." Present tense vs. past tense, Bill?

But it was "the Word" that became [past] flesh (Jesus). Bill's position that "it was Jesus that became Jesus" -- your substitution is incorrect; your deductive reasoning is fallacious. Present tense vs. past tense, Bill?

Lesson 1: It WAS "'the living bread which CAME DOWN from heaven."
Lesson 2: It WAS "'the Word' (LOGOS) in the beginning' that BECAME flesh 2000 years ago.

There is no proof of Jesus' pre-existence. Man's faulty deductive reasoning is no proof.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.205.143

Re: Literal vs Dry Humor

November 21 2013, 11:52 PM 

Donnie, you and Ken are the only people I know who deny the Scriptures, which clearly imply that Jesus not only pre-existed His birth on earth, but that He was also the Word who was with God and was God in the beginning. Your notion that Jesus didn't exist in any form or fashion until some 2,000 years ago is fiction, to say the least. It's certainly a novel idea, I'll give you that, but it is still bizarre, hopeless fiction.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Literal vs Dry Humor

November 22 2013, 12:42 AM 

Bill, you're awake!!!

No, you show me the passages. You're mistaking your substitution for implication.

Bill, when the Scripture says, "the Word (LOGOS) in the beginning ... WAS MADE FLESH (Jesus)," leave it alone. You're replacing God's truth with your PERCEPTION that "Jesus BECAME Jesus."

Did Bill just say this: "He [Jesus] was also the Word"? "ALSO"? Where did the word "also" come from? You certainly added that word "also."

Now, that is fiction.

On the other hand, one cannot go wrong with "... and the Word (LOGOS) was made flesh."

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.210.226

Re: Literal vs Dry Humor

November 22 2013, 9:00 AM 

Donnie, for someone who denounces the Trinity as Catholic fiction, it's really ironic that you embrace the fiction that Jesus did not pre-exist His birth. That kind of fiction ranks right along with the Catholics' fictious creations of limbo and purgatory.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Literal vs Dry Humor

November 22 2013, 10:19 PM 

Bill,

1. There is no proof of the pagan-originated Catholic Trinity in Scripture.

2. The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Trinity Creed was invented a few centuries after when?

3. The Trinity Dogma was non-existent in the Old Testament dispensation.

4. The Word (LOGOS) pre-existed Jesus; Bill believes Jesus pre-existed Jesus.

5. God was manifest in the flesh and pre-existed Jesus.

6. Thank you for proving my point--among several, you've just mentioned three fictions that Catholics (Roman, American, Spanish-speaking) own, embrace and teach:

----------- a. The Trinity Creed of 3 Gods-in-one.
----------- b. Limbo
----------- c. Purgatory.

 
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Coach
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: Correction

November 20 2013, 3:13 PM 

Perhaps, Donnie will give us a class on Dynamic IP vs Static IP. I do know the Static IP address will not change. Most regular guys have a Static IP address. We can tell when a strange IP is present. Ken sometimes goes to Taco Bell and uses his laptop for a Wi-Fi connection. You never really know. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Correction

November 20 2013, 11:49 PM 

Coach,

Maybe you can teach us. As a computer hardware tech guy, can you tell us the exact location of the IP address? How do you send an e-mail to that address?

Didn't you say, "Reboot if nothing else"? LOL

Have a great rest-of-the-week!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Try That One Again Ken

November 17 2013, 9:27 PM 

Burton Coffman may be the only fairly recent Church of Christ scholar who has read the text beyond "gitin up a sermon."

Coffman's Commentary Speaks for the total Bible view that Israel's rejection of God as King, Judge and Priest set the stage for their later repudiation of Jesus Christ in order to keep the evil Temple-System like all other nations. Remember that the clergy was still seeking a king "like the nations" and had not a hint of looking for a Spiritual King, Prince and Mediator:

The great Cambridge scholar, Henry McKeating, has the following comment on this passage from Hosea:

"Hosea is not only antagonistic to the northern kings but to the monarchy as such. The monarchy is powerless to save the nation. Israel was wrong to ask for a king. Her punishment was that she got what she asked." 7: Henry McKeating, Amos, Hosea, and Micah (Cambridge: University Press, 1971), p. 148.

Coffman: "We are aware that it is popular among many able commentators today to make apologies for Israel's monarchy and to apply what the Scriptures plainly say about it to some specific monarch, Saul, for example, as did Dummelow, or to the kings of Northern Israel as did Hailey;
but it is the conviction of this writer that
Israel was totally and completely wrong in asking a king and that this rejection of God (that is what the text calls it) contained embryonically all of the later sorrows of the Chosen People.

Throughout the whole history of Israel, there were very few monarchs who even tried to serve the Lord. Solomon was to be blamed for the division of the kingdom under his son, because the people simply rejected the excesses of Solomon; and yet, even after God took the monarchy away from them, the nation wanted nothing in heaven or on earth as much as they wanted the restoration of that scandalous Solomonic empire.

It was this, more than anything else,

that motivated their rejection of God Himself,
finally and irrevocably,
in their rejection of God's Son, Jesus Christ the Holy One.

Go down the list of Israel's kings, David, the very best of all of them, was an adulterer and a murderer; and he also corrupted the worship of God by two sinful things:

(1) his initiating the events that led to the building of the temple (the den of thieves and robbers in Jesus' times); and

(2) his introduction of instruments of music into the worship of God.
We do not have the space here to outline all of the misdeeds of Israel's shameful monarchy,

but it is clear enough that God's disapproval of the monarchy was no late thing, applicable only to the phantom kings of Ephraim's final years, but it rested upon the monarchy from the very beginning of it as outlined in this chapter.

If God had ever approved of it, He would never have taken it away from them! Nevertheless, God accommodated to the sinful conduct of His people and in many specific instances blessed the kings of Israel,


Even Coffman misses the point that the sacrificial system was a NATIONAL SACRIFICE common in all nations. The Godly people never engaged in "temple worship" but were quarantined to their very isolated villages on the sabbath (REST) where Moses had assigned leaders of groups as small as 5 families there the only religious activity was to meet to REST, READ AND REHEARSE the word of God. We know from many statements that this was not the Law to which God abandoned the Tribe of Levites.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The WORLD (musicators) A Great Tribulation: 2 Samuel.6

November 17 2013, 9:38 PM 

[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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Servant For Him
(no login)
162.229.28.209

Yes is Still Yes

November 22 2013, 9:49 PM 

Ken said "And, yet, here I am still quoting Scripture which you still cannot understand."

Yea, I am still trying to find where YOUR Scriptures of Pan, your Greek god is located within the 66 books of inspired I still haven't found it. So then, Ken, are you quoting Scripture?
No.

Do you still believe that I was the one who get you booted from Faithmatters? Hey, if you need someone to blame, go ahead. I will be the one.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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