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Etymology and Translation

October 4 2014, 11:48 AM 

The word "church" as we use it is a product of 20 centuries of Romanism and quasi-Romanism.

It has taken on a meaning far removed from the "called out."

If we follow Wayne Jackson's mode of thinking I am afraid that we will equate "church" to a mechanical structure, far removed from the "called out" lifestyles that Christians are to follow.

Etymology is an invaluable tool in understanding language and scriptural concepts.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Etymology and Translation

October 4 2014, 12:37 PM 

Yes, and you had better be perfect all of the time:

You must be at all of the assemblies the preacher or elders decided on.
You must endure the ACT of listening to the ACT of preaching that which is NOT written.
You must endure the ACT of singing that which is not written.
You must lay by in store as an ACT of worship.
You must not question god's chosen: not even a Bible question because that would TRY his authority.

The "progressives" continue all of the ACTS of the "legalists" and impose another one or two.

It is true: the ekklesia is all of those who have been called out of the world: they were invited or called.

Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered [synagogued] the church [ekklesia] together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

1Cor. 14:23 If therefore the whole church [Ekklesia] be come together [synagogue] into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

The Church or Ekklesia includes all of the saved.
When they are called into assembly synagogue type words or used.
The synagogue was only to hear material handed down from a higher authority.
They "gather" their thoughts and made certain that everyone understood.
The Lord's Supper is a "preaching" act which forces all who are BODY to sit down and listen to the direct command to PREACH the WORD for doctrine and comfort.

The civil ekklesia and synagoge was called into assembly about 49 times during the year: the church PATTERN was to come together once on the Lord's Day.

Neither synagogue nor ekklesia has any ministries or ministers other than the common practice of looking out for those who could not help themselves. Paul and recorded history affirmed that giving to the destitute was a personal responsibility. A lady pastor wrote that they make certain that 10% of the take goes to charity.

Paul told the Corinthians that their assembly did more harm than good: maybe we are excused from attending that church?

1Cor. 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together [synagogue] not for the better, but for the worse.
1Cor. 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together [synagogue] in the church [ekklesia], I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

Alfred Edershim a Jew said consistent with the text "the synagogue had no praise service." You you have a praise service maybe you don't understand synagogue.

There is no "theology" involved: just the text Mam.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Oct 4, 2014 12:48 PM

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Re: Etymology and Translation

October 4 2014, 1:31 PM 

What a wonderful post!

This is worthy of consideration by all God's children!

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Etymology and Translation

October 4 2014, 4:53 PM 

Because the assembly is always some form of the synagogue word: Jesus synagogued with the disciples on the first day of the week and He and everyone knew to synagogue on the next first day of the week.

People knew to wait a week until all of the ekklesia knew to synagogue on the first day of the week. Then---

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples [mathetes] came together [sunago-synagogue] to break bread, Paul preached [Dialegomai-lego] unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech [logos opposite personal comments, singing, playing instruments]until midnight.

And what happened to the DIALOGER OF THE LOGOS?

Acts 20:13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed, minding himself to go afoot.

I suppose that if I was retailing the FREE WATER of the word I might say "there is no pattern" and make up my own Derivative and lump in all of the "junk dogmas" and sell them to my friends and they would send in their widow's welfare check not knowing that "it derives its value from something else."

Please excuse me from the captive ekklesia and let me synagogue with mathetes smart enough to know that a student does pay for someone to perform worship services.

Why do you suppose that theologians don't let everyone know that synagogue is defined as an inclusive and exclusive PATTERN?

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Oct 4, 2014 5:01 PM

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Re: Etymology and Translation

October 4 2014, 6:19 PM 

This is why you get the letters from some preachers, who really acts like "the pastor," saying that you need to place your membership with this church, or that church.

And that the elders there are really concerned about you soul, implying there is no salvation outside their rule.

It is destructive of other area churches since it divides the body of Christ into congregations.

Not just that you shouldn't belong to a congregation, but that this is the "only congregation" that is acceptable to these particular elders.

This is all too frequent.

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Re: Etymology and Translation

October 5 2014, 2:47 PM 

Scripture, do you have anything positive to share about any local Church? Did Jesus tell you not to do that as some have claimed?

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Re: Etymology and Translation

October 6 2014, 9:22 AM 

Yes, there are many positives.

The Bible is still quoted. The name "Church of Christ" is still worn.

There are benevolent outreaches, which has helped many people won the church much praise.

There is no apparent hierarchy outside the local congregation.

Imperialism and nationalism is more or less held at bay.

So there are many very good characteristics.

The Churches of Christ are frequently bashed with "digs" from the pulpit, from right and left, and this is a very demoralizing element that we didn't have years ago.

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Re: Etymology and Translation

October 6 2014, 1:10 PM 

Scripture, thanks for the reply. I'm glad you found something positive about the local Church. happy.gif

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Jerusalem the Mark of the Beast

October 6 2014, 4:28 PM 

The Beginning and end-time literal Jerusalem as the model for "worship centers" was the MARK OF THE BEAST.

Recorded history and the "new style of worship" proves that demonstrative rituals of worship were and are a virtual sexual engagement with the "Spirit." All of the "acts" beyond being A School of the Prophets and Apostles as the ONLY commanded educational resource intend to display the persona or talent of boys and girls "daring to dance with god" or "longing to sit in god's lap" so both by the same writer suggests a lap dance with God. The Greeks especially record lots of proof that rhetoric or preaching depending on one's looks or talent, singing, playing or acting are causes and marks of women and "boys" ruling over you.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Oct 6, 2014 4:38 PM

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Re: Etymology and Translation

October 5 2014, 4:59 PM 

Call it the concerned members ekklesia (CME). They get mad, slam the church they are part of, or have left, and seem, in their, mind to be vindicated by airing their dirty laundry here.

2 Thessalonians 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Ken, THAT is how you put it into CONTEXT. your lying wonders for you.


Edited: "Anonymous" is Dave Fields, in case you need to respond to this post. happy.gif

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Oct 5, 2014 5:29 PM

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Why People Quit Church by Wayne Jackson (Must Read)

October 6 2014, 1:04 PM 

Why People Quit Church

by Wayne Jackson

Church leaders have long been interested in why so many drift away from faithful service to the Lord. Jesus summarized the matter in his parable of the sower. The causes he listed are: the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of wealth, distracted desires for worldly things, and carnal pleasure (Matthew 13:22; Mark 4:18; Luke 8:14).

This list could be expanded from numerous other texts (e.g., the ingestion of false teaching [cf. Romans 16:17; 2 Thessalonians 3:6; Titus 3:10]), but for the moment this will suffice.

Several months ago, LifeWay Christian Resources, a Baptist-based group, did a survey of 469 adults who formerly were “church” people but had left their respective groups. The results of this study are interesting.

(1) Many of them “quit church” because they “simply got too busy.” Too busy to honor their Creator; too busy to serve him who died for them; too busy to go to heaven.

(2) Others faded away, they said, because “family and home responsibilities prevented” their continued connection with church. Is not serving God the most important family and home responsibility? Is putting food in a child’s mouth and clothes on his back more crucial than nurturing his soul toward heaven? The failure to sort out one’s prime obligations is one of the most significant gauges of spiritual foolishness.

(3) A considerable number complained that they had become disenchanted with church leaders or members. This is what one might call the PTB syndrome (“passing the buck”). Some do not like the elders’ decisions, others find the preaching boring, and there is the complaint that the deacons don’t minister to their needs.

There also is the common gripe that they are not being included in the church’s activities. Of course, they never volunteer for service and usually complain when asked to do something.

(4) Not a few charge that church members are judgmental and hypocritical, etc. Never mind that these are judging those whom they contend are judgmental. And they never boycott any place on the basis of hypocrisy except the church!

In more than a half-century of service to Christ, I cannot recall having seen a reprobate leave the fellowship of the church and take personal responsibility for his apostasy. He always plays the blame game: “It’s not my fault; they did it to me!” Such rationalizations are hypocritical subterfuge on the part of dishonest people who refuse to acknowledge their own problems.

(5) A small number claim they left the church because they lost faith in organized religion. One supposes they prefer disorganized religion. God does not condone confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), and one is not allowed to improvise his own worship and service system (John 4:24; 17:17). Such autocratic, self-focused individuals have not the slightest understanding of what genuine Christianity is.

Of course, there are cases where people genuinely lose faith. Perhaps they were never grounded or they were disappointed when their expectations of God were more idealistic than informed.

I am familiar with a man who matriculated through two Christian schools and then preached the gospel for a number of years on a foreign mission field. Eventually he “soured,” and now he works vociferously to oppose Christianity in every conceivable way he can, denying even that Jesus Christ ever lived. It most likely is the reality that he failed personally and now seeks to rationalize his apostasy by directing his wrath toward the Son of God.

Such loss of faith is never justified. Let the patriarch Job be your teacher! One should join the man who exclaimed, “[H]elp my unbelief” (Mark 9:24), and seek assistance.

(6) Some fall away because of changing circumstances in their lives. A divorce, for example, can devastate a person. He or she may feel an unjustified guilt because the marriage did not hold together. One may be immersed in shame because other families in the church seem stable.

(7) Others may experience a job move that sends them into an isolated area where there are no Christians. If one does not have the stability to survive in a community where there is no church, or if they cannot summon the courage to faithfully serve God alone, attempting to teach others, he or she would be far better off finding a new job that would facilitate Christian faithfulness. No job is worth the loss of one’s soul (Matthew 16:26).

The ultimate truth of the matter is this: there are no valid reasons for forsaking Christ—only lame excuses! And Jesus made it very plain: excuses will carry no weight in the day of reckoning (see Luke 14:18ff).

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