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The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

December 31 2013 at 9:11 PM
Donnie Cruz  (Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 99.177.250.192

"'The Virgin Mary' (Title) vs. 'Jesus, Born of a Virgin'" -- consider this one as the alternate title of this post.

We have just reviewed and studied (and will continue to do so) the pagan-originated Nicene-Constantinopolitan Trinity Creed, authorized and approved by the bishops of the [eventual] Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Emperor.

The Christian world, along with the Roman Catholic Church's adherents, has just had another "birthday celebration" for Jesus, whether or not evidence continues to be sought as to the actual date of Jesus' birth. While the majority stresses the significance of the actual physical birth more than anything else, there are those who justify the celebration [to go along with the Roman Catholic Church tradition] by emphasizing God's purpose and design for sending His Son to this earth.

So, how many non-Catholics sang Christmas songs that promote the Roman Catholic idea of "The Virgin Mary" as the TITLE of the earthly mother of Jesus? What about "The Virgin Mary Had a Baby Boy"?

The Virgin Mary had a baby boy
The Virgin Mary had a baby boy
The Virgin Mary had a baby boy
And they say that His name is Jesus...


The subliminal message -- the earthly mother of Jesus being referred to as: "The Virgin Mary, Mother of God." Isn't there a difference between: (1) "a virgin shall be with child" and (2) "The Virgin Mary" as a title of reverence?

Did Jesus address his mother ordinarily or with reverence?

What about Jesus' own brothers and sisters in the flesh? That apparently destroys the RCC doctrine of the PERPETUAL virginity of "God's Mother."

Just as the Roman Catholic Church itself is an ever-evolving religious-political organization [political: in that "The Vatican" has its ambassadors to other nations and vice-versa; cf. "the U.S. Ambassador to the Holy See"], many of its man-made doctrines are also evolutionary in nature.

About the Virgin Mary, Mother of God:


By the early years of the 2nd century the idea of the Virgin as the ideal woman began to grow. First, it was said of her that she was a virgin mother. Next, she became a permanent virgin, making it necessary to transform the biblically mentioned brothers and sisters of Jesus into half-siblings or cousins. Next the church fathers claimed for her the status of being a postpartum virgin which caused the hierarchy of the church to go through intellectual gymnastics to prove that the hymen of the Virgin Mary had not been ruptured even during Jesus birth. Then someone found a text in Ezekiel (Chapter 44:1) which suggested that when "the gates of the city were closed only the Lord could go in and out." Without either shame or apology that verse, written about 800 years before the birth of Jesus, was said to demonstrate that Jesus could be born without disturbing the gates of his mothers womb.

Next in the 19th century the Virgin was declared to be immaculately conceived. Even her own birth was now said to have been miraculous. The stain of human sin found in the myth of the fall of humanity (in the Garden of Eden) was not allowed to touch her. Finally in the 20th century, literally at the dawn of the space age, Mary was proclaimed to have bodily ascended into heaven. This new doctrine was based on the fact that no one knew her place of burial. The reason, the Roman Catholic church's leadership suggested, was that she had never died. [cf. Catholic Answers Forums]


If "Father, Son and Mother of God" is not another Roman Catholic Church Trinity, then, perhaps, the original man-made Trinity Creed should add ANOTHER PERSON -- "The Virgin Mary, The Mother of God" -- and have the Creed RENAMED appropriately.

 
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AuthorReply
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 11:29 AM 

My wife's niece, a Catholic, watched the Pope's mass and she was shocked at all of the "steps". We were both impressed that the "singing" consisting of a leader (chanter, cantor) "speaking" a whole Bible passage and the audience repeating the whole passage in a not-tuneful sense.

This was the first time that I have seen the Pope wearing the VULVA or EPHOD.

[linked image]

Judges 8:27 And Gideon made an ephod thereof, and put it in his city, even in Ophrah: and all Israel went thither a whoring after it: which thing became a snare unto Gideon, and to his house.
Judges 8:28 Thus was Midian subdued before the children of Israel, so that they lifted up their heads no more. And the country was in quietness forty years in the days of Gideon.
Judges 8:29 And Jerubbaal the son of Joash went and dwelt in his own house.
Judges 8:30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.


My daughter got a photo of the backside also and it is a fact.

It was apparent also that the "females" fulfilling the roles of Women (Like David in his dirty dance), Jesus was a large INFANT: Trinitarians ALWAYS want Jesus confined to being an infant. Since they want the "spirit person" to lead them into effeminate and embarassing preaching and music, they are fulfilling the end-time patter of the Babylon mother of harlots using lusted after "fruits" as self-speakers, singers and instrument players. The BRIDES in Revelation 18 would perform the Hieros Gamos or Sacred Sex probably imitated by the boys and girls singing and gyrating in what they think is a "holy place." The sounds of the millstone is a PIPING (fluting) sound which as "grinders" did double duty as prostitutes. In fact, selling anything other than teaching that which has been taught is defined by Greek civil society and Paul as PROSTITUTION.


Richard Burton: As transvestite priests they were the most sacred of the cult of the BEE KINGS, too, and on the island of Paros, they were the ORGEONES - come from another "society of men" devoted to the goddess Demeter. Actually, everywhere you look, it seems, they're dancing in their dresses. So we thus find The Childrens custom of dressing "like a woman," from which the later Christian priests adopted their heavenly skirts. And with the ancient KABIRI statue of a god called Cabeiros, attended by a boy cupbearer, there is also the pre-Greek predecessor to the same-sex lovers of ZEUS and GANYMEDE. Carl Jung, the Swiss psychologist, had it right when he wrote that the gay psyche preserves within itself the archetype of the Original Man, for here, on a separate vase, just as found in Lemnos, in front of the god Cabeiros and his same-sex lover is also shown a small figure, Pratolao, which translates to mean just that - the first or Original Man.

Plutrarch says they were the astronomers and astrologers of Chaldea around 3200 B.C.
According to Herodotus, they surfaced some 2,000 years after that as an effeminate priesthood in what is now southern Russia and present-day Ukraine. They were called the ENAREE, "endowed by the goddess Venus [Lucifer, Zoe] with the gift of prophecy."

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.211.121

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 11:40 AM 

Did it strike anyone as strange that this site was really quiet for nearly two weeks around Christmastime?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 1:02 PM 

Nope: it always slows down around Christmas and Spring Vacation.

I personally try to hold my breath from about December 15 to December 30 when my wife tells me I am 83 going on 84.


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 1:56 PM 

How observant!!! You know your math well. LOL happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif

It was time to relieve you of your anxiety ... because "this site was really quiet."

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.12.199

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 2:16 PM 

I don't blame Donnie for neglecting his CM for two weeks. Like most people, he undoubtedly was too busy decorating his halls with boughs of holly, singing Christmas carols, trimming his tree, wrapping presents, gulping wassail, and polishing the figures in his Nativity set for his family to admire. Did you also have an annual reading of Dickens's A Christmas Carol and watch Miracle on 34th Street? happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 2:56 PM 

Yes, I was busy.

Nothing else to say about the topic? That's like me saying that Bill has got the statue of the Virgin Mary and crosses in his living room, in his bedroom.


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.211.121

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 11:33 AM 

After nearly two weeks with no one posting anything on this site, Donnie managed to squeeze in the last post of 2013 with another crack at the Trinity; only this time he substituted the "Virgin Mary, Mother of God" for the Holy Spirit.

I wonder what the first post of 2014 will bring. More bashing of the Trinity? Instrumental music? More assertions that Jesus was not the Word and is not eternal? Better yet, how long will Ken's first post be--10,000 words? Heaven forbid! We'll wait and see! happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 12:58 PM 

It's the dealer's choice:

1. First ammendment
2. Own and finance the "church."
3. Because the trinity is Babylonish and Anti-Christian.
4. Just to worry the warts.

The Jews sang a Hallel ONCE each year or occasion: to SPEAK Hallel daily is blasphemy.

How many times have you engaged in the LEGAL ACTION of repeating the quickly selected numbers out of the blue book teaching error or stripping all of the testesterone out of anyone with any left after the sermonizer?

Using one mind and one mouth to SPEAK that which is written means to REHEARSE over and over or mutually confess some passage of Scripture (that which is commanded). As long as anyone defends Babylonian Polytheism someone has to repeat, repeat, repeat to cover up the potty pops.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.12.199

New Year's Resolutions

January 1 2014, 1:28 PM 

Some people annually make New Year's resolutions. I don't. For their resolutions, some people may have decided not to worry one way or another about the Trinity; others may have decided not to read Concerned Members anymore. happy.gif I especially like Mark Twain's take on resolutions:

"New Year's Day: Now is the accepted time to make your regular annual good resolutions. Next week you can begin paving hell with them as usual."

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: New Year's Resolutions

January 1 2014, 2:48 PM 

Bill,

Did you enjoy watching the Pope's mass?

Did you count the number of times the participants made "the sign of the cross" during the entire religious ritual?

This is really important to the Roman Catholics, you know, as the sign involves the Catholic Trinity PERSONS -- including the "Holy Spirit" [that Trinitarians and you consider a PERSON].

http://catholicexchange.com/21-things-cross


21 Things We Do When We Make the Sign of the Cross

The Sign of the Cross is a simple gesture yet a profound expression of faith for both Catholic and Orthodox Christians. As Catholics, its something we do when we enter a church, after we receive Communion, before meals, and every time we pray. But what exactly are we doing when we make the Sign of the Cross? Here are 21 things:

  1. Pray. ...
  2. Open ourselves to grace. ...
  3. Sanctify the day. ...
  4. Commit the whole self to Christ. ...
  5. Recall the Incarnation. ...
  6. Remember the Passion of Our Lord. ...
  7. Affirm the Trinity. In invoking the name of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we are affirming our belief in a triune God. This is also reinforced by using three fingers to make the sign, according to Pope Innocent III.
  8. Focus our prayer on God. ...
  9. Affirm the procession of Son and Spirit. In first lifting our hand to our forehead we recall that the Father is the first person the Trinity. In lowering our hand we express that the Son proceeds from the Father. And, in ending with the Holy Spirit, we signify that the Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son, according to Francis de Sales.
  10. Confess our faith. ...
  11. Invoke the power of Gods name. ...
  12. Crucify ourselves with Christ. ...
  13. Ask for support in our suffering. ...
  14. Reaffirm our baptism. ...
  15. Reverse the curse. ...
  16. Remake ourselves in Christs image. ...
  17. Mark ourselves for Christ. ...
  18. Soldier on for Christ. ...
  19. Ward off the devil. ...
  20. Seal ourselves in the Spirit. ...
  21. Witness to others. ...


To some Catholic Trinity adherents, making "the sign of the cross" would be a good New Year's Resolution.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.243.87

Re: New Year's Resolutions

January 1 2014, 4:09 PM 

Nope, I had no desire to watch the Pope's mass, but from your description of what went on, it's evident that you really enjoyed watching the Pope. That's not surprising, since you tend to run to the Catholic DR Bible when the KJV doesn't back you up. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: New Year's Resolutions

January 1 2014, 4:46 PM 

How could you have no desire to watch the Catholic Trinity being clearly illustrated and demonstrated by the constant making of "the sign of the cross" -- just your kind of thing?

That's not only a Catholic theory, but Trinity in practice and reality!!! Bill? Are you a Trinity theorist ONLY? One would think that you would PRACTICE what the Trinity Creed espouses by using the three (3) fingers.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 2:11 PM 

Bill,

Substituted? I could have, but I didn't. Pay attention.

I said: "The Other Roman Catholic Trinity."

I also said that perhaps another PERSON, "the Virgin Mary" (very highly regarded and revered by the Roman Catholic Church adherents), should be added to the equation ... and the Trinity renamed as Quadnity or something?

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.12.199

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 2:45 PM 

Donnie, since you mentioned "Father, Son and Mother of God," you substituted MOG for the Holy Spirit to create a "new" kind of "Trinity" that's definitely more Catholic-oriented.

However, the Bible-based, three-part grouping is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (see Matt. 28:19). This grouping is widely known as the "Trinity." Of course, the absence of "Trinity" from the biblical text does not preclude our describing Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as the "Trinity," just as the absence of "Holy Bible" from the biblical text does not preclude our describing the biblical canon as the "Holy Bible."

Perhaps a "Quaternity" of Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Mother of God would be more suitable for Catholics; the rest of us will settle for the Bible-based grouping (AKA Trinity) of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 3:16 PM 

Both Trinity concepts are pagan- and Catholic-based oriented and originated. Be reminded.

The "Holy Spirit" in Matt. 28:19 is "the Spirit of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:19). Christ was addressing Himself while He was still living with His disciples at the time -- He gave the Commission before His death.

I know ... I know you will AGAIN ignore "the Spirit of Jesus Christ."

Other references to "the Spirit of Christ" are in Romans 8:9 and I Peter 1:11.

Please read all the above references and express here what you think of these passages. Please don't deviate from the issue at hand, the issue you just brought up.

 
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Tom Brite
(no login)
23.127.169.69

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 4:03 PM 

Well, so much for the peace and good tidings of Christmas! Hope everyone had a great holiday and spent some quality time with family. Now we can all look forward to about 340 days of dissension on this site for 2014!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 4:34 PM 

Good to hear from you, Tom.

I would say a discussion of doctrinal matters will continue -- that should serve the purpose of religious fora such as this one.

Know that CM welcomes your participation [regardless of what "others" say sad.gif ].
happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif

 
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Tom Brite
(no login)
23.127.169.69

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 4:50 PM 

Thanks Donnie! I thought that the NSA had shut you guys down for a while. Glad to see things are back to normal!

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.247.77

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 5:11 PM 

If "back to normal" means that anyone is branded as a "blasphemer" and an "antichrist" if his theology does not match that of the moderators, then yes, things are indeed back to normal. happy.gif

 
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