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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 5:20 PM 

Sounds like one coming from a dissident to the site -- negative. Bill, regardless of disagreements, your posts continue to be published.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.12.180

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 6:23 PM 

On one hand, I appreciate the fact that you actually do publish posts that disagree with your theology; on the other hand, you and Ken do consider the people who disagree with you to be blasphemers and antichrists. Although you publish "both sides," you make it a point to rail against the "other side."

Perhaps that's why so few people post here.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 7:29 PM 

Bill,

Railing against "the other side" -- Wow!!! You've repeatedly continued to present the Catholic Trinity as the truth, even while you're bashing this website. And all you do is recite the SAME PREMISE of the RCC and the pope. You're no exception to that "railing," Bill Crump.

We continue and will continue to expose the pagan and Catholic Creed that you adhere to and support. Get rid of that guilt of the feeling of being "considered" as an "antichrist." If you strongly believe that you are NOT "antichrist" by the Scripture's definition, then that "consideration" should not bother you.

Bill, you really ought to study prayerfully the Scriptures that debunk the man-made perception of "God's holy Spirit" as a SEPARATE BEING apart from God the Father and from His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Let's use a very simple analogy: "The nose OF Bill" does not make Bill's nose a separate person/being apart from Bill," does it?

Please don't make me say that you, a "grammar" expert, do not understand prepositions (of, in, etc.).

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.243.60

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 9:03 PM 

Perhaps if you choose to "discuss" topics instead of posing yourself as the only voice of truth in the world while performing a hatchet job on those who don't agree with you, then you might see more people posting here. But then, you're probably not all that concerned about numbers of posters. If that's the case, then it's unfortunately "business" (such as it is) as usual.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 10:09 PM 

Bill,

NO ONE is forcing YOU to agree!!! And your viewpoints are being published. Including your COMMENTS (such as above) that have NOTHING to do with the specific topic being discussed.

You really have an attitude problem.

If you cannot handle discussing SPECIFICS and DETAILS, such as illustrating "the nose OF Bill" to make a point about prepositions, then, that is not another poster's problem. It becomes your problem.

Illustrating the preposition "OF" in the expression "the Spirit OF God" or "the Spirit OF Christ" is definitely a VALID ARGUMENT to prove ownership or possession and disprove your perception that "the Spirit" is APART FROM or a SEPARATE BEING from God or Christ.

Why is that so difficult for you to even acknowledge the proper grammatical structure of the expression when/where the preposition "OF" is involved?

Your rebuttal against proper usage of prepositions is important -- we want to know it -- not your usual bashing of the moderators and this website.

Bill, the preposition "OF" -- say something.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.13.146

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 11:20 PM 

When it comes to theology, everyone believes that his own view is correct. You, on the other hand, have this NEED, this craving for all people to agree with your theological views; when they don't, you respond with sarcasm and insults and insinuate that their very souls are in jeopardy. Thus, your attitude to all posters is, "You'd better agree with me or you'll suffer damnation, for God speaks through me and me alone!" That's the mark of a religious fanatic, and it's guaranteed to keep potential posters away, especially those who disagree with you. Maybe that's what you really have in mind.


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 2 2014, 1:39 AM 

"Souls are in jeopardy" -- that's not coming from me. I was quoting YOU.

Get to the point of what's being discussed, Bill. You keep deviating from the discussion with your psychological/philosophical analyses and remarks.

No, Bill, what I'm asking is very simple: When specific questions are directed to you, please at least acknowledge even if you need more time to respond -- and NOT completely ignore them with the hope that they will be forgotten.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.243.87

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 4:20 PM 

Be reminded that the New Testament mentions Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19). What heavenly things the Bible groups together as two, three, four, or X number of parts can hardly be pagan.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 5:10 PM 

Bill,

One problem is that you have IGNORED all the posts we've submitted regarding the pagan influences and orientation in the pagan-based Catholic Trinity Creed that the Protestant world has acquired, inherited and propagated.

Did you even care to read the passages from the Scripture regarding "the Spirit OF Jesus Christ"?

These passages do not agree with your perception of making "the Holy Spirit" OF the Father or OF Christ A PERSON:


  • And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit OF his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. (Gal. 4:6)

  • But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit OF God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit OF Christ, he is none of his. (Romans 8:9)

  • Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit OF Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. (I Peter 1:11)

  • And grieve not the holy Spirit OF God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Eph. 4:30)

  • For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit OF Jesus Christ... (Philippians 1:19)


Bill, I would urge you AGAIN to read and STUDY the above passages.


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.12.180

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 6:05 PM 

I'm aware of the plague of useless posts that Donnie and Ken have unloaded on this site to bash the Trinity. Donnie can't acknowledge the fact that the New Testament actually groups Father, Son, and Holy Spirit together as three. According to Donnie, if man refers to such a grouping as the "Trinity," then it is absolutely of pagan, Catholic origin. Instead, Donnie and Ken need to come to terms with and accept the three-part grouping that the New Testament mentions, rather than rail and agonize over it as they have so vainly done for far too long.

When we discuss the Trinity, let us keep three questions in mind:

Is a person's soul in jeopardy if he refers to the Bible-based grouping of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as the "Trinity"? Heaven forbid!

Is a person's soul in jeopardy if he sees the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three separate entites or even as three "persons"? Heaven forbid!

Is a person's soul in jeopardy if his view of the Trinity doesn't exactly match that of the moderators? The moderators would say yes, that person is a blasphemer and an antichrist. Oh, please, heaven forbid!!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 10:29 PM 

Bill,

There you go again ... your "soul in jeopardy" bit. Deviating from the substantive discussion of the Trinity Creed?

Your "grouping" methodology -- it doesn't prove anything.

We don't mind bashing the man-made Trinity doctrine because of what it teaches -- not because the word "Trinity" does not appear in the Bible.

Of course, it is your prerogative to defend the Catholic Trinity. It is also your prerogative to practice what the Trinity Creed teaches -- making the sign of the cross using the three fingers, according to "Francis de Sales."

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 5:35 PM 

By definition of ALL pagan triads including the one the Jews worshipped under Apis the golden calf or DEMON says Paul, are CLEARLY Father, Mother (spirit) and son. In biology barnyard 101a we learned that you NEVER get a child or a father without a MOTHER. Nor do you get a pregnant mother without some hanky panky.

Therefore, Jesus said that the NAME of the always-pagan trinity is Jesus Christ

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am IN the Father, and the Father IN me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


THE WAY IT WORKS EVEN FOR SIMPLE SIMONS.

Father Thinks or Conceives: son does not
Father BREATHES (spirit): spirit-breath never speaks
SON articulates the BREATH of God by His double-edged sword (lips).

Unknown to modern theologians who have stopped being Bible Students, this is the way that the FOUNDERS of the triad concept along with the Campells.

Son NEVER speaks on His own.
Spirit NEVER speaks on ITS own.

If you believe in the LU, ACU Three "centers of consciousness each with his own skills," THEN you say that the SPIRIT is DUMB and IGNORANT. And the SON is DUMB and IGNORANT.

You are protected from a TERMINAL SIN by listening to John:

If you reject the ONE GOD (Theos) and the ONE LORD (Kurios) who is MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ by HIS and OUR father, John says that you are ANTI-CHRIST.

The Epistle Writers who were finishing their PART guided by the Spirit OF Christ (named Jesus of Nazareth) DARED you to private interpret or FURTHER EXPOUND that which Jesus had prefected because the REST of us with the same reading ability can mark you as a FALSE TEACHERS. Those who claim that "a" spirit is guiding them are CORRECT: The Spirit OF Abaddon or Apollyon has unleashed the MUSES as His musical worship team of LOCUSTS to SEPARATE those marked by the WORD and obedience FROM those who receive the MARK (leaving the ekklesia by a trumpet sound) of the BEAST (a new style of music or drama)>


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 7:49 PM 

Ken,

The Scripture is on your side.

The singular name in Matt. 28:19 refers to Jesus Christ.

Acts 2:38, along with several other passages, is more evidence that the singular name in baptism addressed in Matt. 28:19 is "the name of Jesus Christ."


  • Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

  • And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:48)

  • When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:5)

  • These are passages that identify BAPTISM "in the name of Jesus Christ." And there are many other passages that reference "in the name of Jesus Christ" outside of baptism as well.


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.243.60

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 8:40 PM 

The Scriptures are on the side of those who realize that "in the name of" is just another way of saying "by the authority of." Just as "in the name of the law" means "by the authority of the law," then "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt. 28:19 KJV) is the same as saying "by the authority of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." The same could also be said as "in the name of the Father, and in the name of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Ghost." The same would also mean "by the authority of the Father, and by the authority of the Son, and by the authority of the Holy Ghost."

If Matt. 28:19 did not mean three distinct, heavenly beings, why did it list three? That's implying that the Bible said one thing but meant something else, which is rubbish. If the verse intended only one heavenly being, then that verse would have been rendered as something like "...baptizing them in the name of the Lord God." But no, the verse listed THREE beings--"in the name of [the three]" which is the same as "by the authority of [the three]."

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 10:52 PM 

There's no need to explain "by the authority of" -- we all know that.

The key point from all the verses associated with BAPTISM is the SINGULARITY of "the name" -- NOT PLURALITY of names:

  • ... baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Matt. 28:19)

  • . . . be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins ... (Acts 2:38)

  • . . . be baptized in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:48)

  • . . . they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:5)


"In the NAME OF ..." is SINGULAR, Bill. One NAME!!! The Spirit of Christ is included in that name -- "the name of the Lord Jesus Christ."

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 8:47 PM 

"Spirits narrate things wholly false, and lie. When spirits begin to speak to man, care should be taken not to believe them, for most everything they say is made up by them, and they lie; so if we permitted them to relate what Heaven is, and how things are in Heaven, they would tell so many falsehoods, and with such strong assertion that man would be astonished; wherefore it was not permitted me when spirits were speaking to have any belief in what they stated. They love to feign. Whatever may be the topic spoken of, they think they know it, and if man listens and believes, they insist, and in various ways deceive and seduce."
Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772), Miscellaneous Works [1]


That's why God made certain that his meaning of "spirit" is BREATH. Only when the One God (Theos) BREATHED into the One Lord (Kurios) the product is the WORD of God: this is the same LOGOS as that which God "speaks" when He thinks (Father) and breathes (spirit) so that the WORD of God is the SON of God. I think, I breath out, I speak: I am not three people.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

January 1 2014, 9:05 PM 

Father, Son and Spirit (mother) are NEVER the names of people, Divine or otherwise.

Father, spirit (mother) and son are ALWAYS PAGAN terms: When Jesus peaks it is almost always ANTITHESIS.

NAME is SINGULAR by Design. God perfectly informed any reader that Jesus Christ is the IMAGE of God but He is not GOD (Theos). God wanted us to see ONE ENTITY who fills all of the roles of the ALWAYS-PAGAN view that the ONE GOD is NOT one god but a family of gods, goddesses, and evil demons.

Father is NEVER the name of a Divine or earthly "people."
Spirit is never the name of a Divine Being.
Son is never the name of a person.

The ONE God is "named" Jehovah or I Am that I Am: "I exist, I don't need a Name."

The Spirit or Breath of God HAS no name: It is a HE because IT is the breath of a Male Deity.

The Son is not a Name: Jesus as Son was named Jesus. I am a son in the same sense and my name is Kenneth.

The Solitary Almighty is He in Whom we "live, move and have our being." He has no flesh, blood or bones. He is "never far from us" because He fills the whole universe and the other 9 dimensions.

I don't intend to spend 2014 listening to the claim that "My Father and I are TWO" which despises the Word and is therefore Blasphemy.

I will post studies as I feel the "spirit" but I don't intend to moderate "arguments from vacuity."

 
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_Coach_
(no login)
108.230.197.238

Re: The Other Roman Catholic Trinity -- "Father, Son and Mother of God"

February 2 2014, 1:44 PM 

Ken, I'm ready to go also. The "Rancor" Enigma is now complete. Goodbye to all.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Searching for the Name of the "Trinity's" Holy Spirit

February 17 2014, 3:03 PM 

Those are truly remarkable assertions, Ken, and scriptural as well:

(1) "Father" is NEVER the name of a Divine Being or an earthly being.
(2) "Son" is NEVER the name of a Divine Being or an earthly being [well, maybe, "Sonny"].
(3) "Spirit" is NEVER the name of a Divine Being or an earthly person.

The Holy Scripture reveals:

(1) That "Jehovah" is the name of the God the Father.
(2) That "Jesus Christ" is the name of God the Father's Son.
(3) That ______________ is the name of "the Holy Spirit."

Please help me provide the name of either:

(a) The Trinity Creed's 3rd Person "Holy Spirit"
----------------- or -------------------------
(b) The Scripture's identification of "the holy Spirit OF God."

The question above is VERY SPECIFIC. Please be specific with your answer. Caution: Reciting the Trinity Creed will not be considered a specific answer to determining the name of God's holy Spirit as a "separate Being."

"I don't know the name" is an acceptable answer.



 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.247.180

Re: Searching for the Name of the "Trinity's" Holy Spirit

February 17 2014, 5:51 PM 

That's precisely why, in Matt. 28:19, being baptized "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" does NOT mean a literal, given name by which each one of the three principal, heavenly beings is called. Instead, "in the name of" is simply another way of saying "by the authority of." We are to be baptized by the authority of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

If Matt. 28:19 had meant for us to be baptized in the literal, given name by which each one of the three principal, heavenly beings is called, it would have said for us to be baptized in the name of Jehovah, Jesus Christ, and ____ (for the Holy Spirit). But the Holy Spirit has no given name as such. Hence, lobbying for a given name for the Holy Spirit doesn't work; interpreting "in the name of" to mean "by the authority of" DOES work.

BTW, even though the Holy Spirit has no given name (that man knows of), that does not preclude it from being a distinct, heavenly being. The angels are also distinct, heavenly beings, despite the fact that the Bible mentions nothing about their given names, if they have any, with the exception of the given names of a few angels, such as Gabriel and Michael. And we all know that Lucifer was also once a heavenly angel who was cast out.

 
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