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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Searching for the Name of the "Trinity's" Holy Spirit

February 17 2014, 8:57 PM 

Bill,

A lot of verbiage (and deviation) there.

I tried to ask a very simple question concerning the name of "the Holy Spirit." What is the name of "the Holy Spirit"? The question cannot be more specific than that. [And don't worry about a "given" name or a "surname" -- just the NAME.]

In all of our discussion here concerning "the holy Spirit of God," you have unequivocally stated numerous times that "the Spirit" is a separate "Divine Being" -- APART FROM God the Father and also APART FROM God the Father's Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

If (a) God the Father's holy Spirit [Matt. 10:20] OR (b) the Father's Son's holy Spirit [Romans 8:9; I Peter 1:11; etc.] is a separate divine being, doesn't it [or "He"] deserve to have a name with "whom" we can identify?

Bill, do you worship and pray to "the Holy Spirit" as a Divine Being? [NOW, I'm not asking about when, how often or where.]





 
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Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.206

Re: Searching for the Name of the "Trinity's" Holy Spirit

February 17 2014, 9:20 PM 

You'll have to ask God why THE Holy Spirit has no given name (that we know of). But the fact is that THE Holy Spirit remains a distinct, heavenly being. Having no given name neither precludes the Holy Spirit from being a separate, heavenly being nor hinders its function. You require the Holy Spirit to have have a given name if it is a separate being, but heavenly beings don't operate according to your or any man's desires and whims. THE Holy Spirit is not about to assume a given name just to please you.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Searching for the Name of the "Trinity's" Holy Spirit

February 18 2014, 12:28 AM 

Bill,

You keep stating and restating a premise -- a THEORY -- that we're trying to prove or disprove, in the first place. Plus your annoying extraneous remarks that have NOTHING to do with the issue at hand: "desires and whims ... just to please you."

You are essentially asserting that God's Holy Spirit is a separate Divine Being because the Trinity Creed says so. Or because that's Bill Crump's "perception."

No, Bill, in a discussion that deals with specifics, you should be able to respond with specifics. Or, admit: "I don't know the specific answer to that specific question." That would be a more respectable statement.

You should be the one asking God why "The Holy Spirit" as a separate DIVINE BEING does not have a NAME.

Maybe it's time for you to seriously consider the real truth that grammar [YOUR specialty, Dr. Crump] plays a big role in understanding the nature of "the holy Spirit OF God":

  • "THE" is a definite article ["the Spirit" is not a name; we do not say: "The Jehovah"].
  • "HOLY" is an adjective that modifies "spirit"; certainly, God's "spirit" is holy while man's spirit is unholy.
  • "SPIRIT" is an improper noun (meaning: wind, power, breath, mind) as opposed to a proper noun.
  • "OF" is a preposition indicating ownership; the spirit belongs to the Father or Christ the Lord -- it is not a separate being.
  • God the Father or His Son Jesus Christ is to whom "the holy spirit" belongs.
Bill, even simple logic tells me that "the not-so-holy spirit OF Donnie" [definite article, adjective, improper noun, preposition, proper noun -- in that order] is not a separate being or person apart from Donnie, and IT [my spirit] does not have a name.

Now, tell me this: is "the almost-holy spirit of Bill Crump" a separate person or being apart from Bill Crump? Does it have a name?


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.209.218

Re: Searching for the Name of the "Trinity's" Holy Spirit

February 18 2014, 5:03 AM 

Trying to prove whether or not the Holy Spirit has a given name is an exercise in futility. The Holy Spirit may indeed have a given name, but the Bible doesn't tell us; yet that proves nothing. The Bible doesn't tell us everything about heavenly beings.

The Bible tells us the given names of only a few of the angels, such as Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer, but not ALL the given names of ALL the angels. In the vast majority of instances in the Bible when an angel appears as a messenger from God, the angel is not identified by a given name. That those angels have no given names known to man does not detract from their purpose and mission.

Likewise, that the Holy Spirit has no given name known to man does not detract from its purpose and mission.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.210.51

Re: Searching for the Name of the "Trinity's" Holy Spirit

February 18 2014, 11:40 AM 

I am confident in my belief that the Holy Spirit does not require a given name to be a distinct, spiritual being.

You are confident in your belief that the Holy Spirit is not a distinct, spiritual being and therefore has no given name.

The New Testament does not demand that we believe one way or the other. The New Testament does not promise dire consequences if we believe one way or the other.

Therefore, I do not begrudge your belief about the Holy Spirit. You need not begrudge my belief about the Holy Spirit.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Searching for the Name of the &quot;Trinity's&quot; Holy Spirit

March 3 2014, 3:11 PM 

Be specific, Bill.

We're discussing the grammatical aspect or structure of the following expression: "Grieve not the holy Spirit of God":

Teach us grammar regarding:

(1) The
(2) holy
(3) Spirit
(4) of
(5) God.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Searching for the Name of the &quot;Trinity's&quot; Holy Spirit

March 3 2014, 3:22 PM 

The Pope is also confident in his belief regarding the papacy and the "universality" of the Roman Catholic Church. The "progressive" in the church is also confident that instrumental music in the assembly is "not forbidden."

We're not discussing "confidence" in anyone's belief -- that is common knowledge and is not an issue in our in-depth study of biblical topics.

Neither is begrudging. Too bad that has entered your mind.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.246.68

Re: Searching for the Name of the &quot;Trinity's&quot; Holy Spirit

March 3 2014, 3:25 PM 

Donnie, my post of February 18 2014, 11:40 AM is self-explanatory. We're not about to change each other's minds over this. happy.gif


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Searching for the Name of the &quot;Trinity's&quot; Holy Spirit

March 3 2014, 3:39 PM 

Teach us grammar regarding:

(1) The
(2) holy
(3) Spirit
(4) of
(5) God.

If you're not interested in discussing specifics so that we can learn from you, don't waste your time and our space posting what you've learned from the Pope. We already know that. And it appears that you have nothing new to offer.

If you're interested in continuing an in-depth discussion, we will do all we can to publish whatever knowledge you want to impart. Other than that, please do not bother. We will continue our study here without your participation.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.246.68

Re: Searching for the Name of the &quot;Trinity's&quot; Holy Spirit

March 3 2014, 3:46 PM 

Everyone must have confidence in his/her beliefs, or they are a sham. You are not only confident that you are right but also that everyone else who disagrees with you is wrong. I am confident that I am also right, but since the New Testament does not promise damnation for believing in the Trinity or for believing that the Holy Spirit is a separate, spiritual being, then I can't say that people are wrong if their perceptions are different from mine regarding this issue.

Whereas you readily begrudge people's beliefs when they differ from yours regarding the Trinity and Holy Spirit, I do not begrudge them.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.246.68

Send It to the Archives

March 3 2014, 3:54 PM 

Donnie, we've been respectively recycling our arguments over and over. Since we're not about to change each other's minds, and since hardly anyone else is posting in this thread, then as far as I'm concerned, you can just pack up this thread and put it with the scores of other threads lying dormant and collecting dust in the archives.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Searching for the Name of the "Trinity's" Holy Spirit

March 3 2014, 3:59 PM 

"Confidence" or "begrudging" is not being discussed here. Please STOP the irrelevance!!!!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Send It to the Archives

March 3 2014, 4:05 PM 

The last of your irrelevant posts to be published.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.246.68

Re: Searching for the Name of the "Trinity's" Holy Spirit

March 3 2014, 4:08 PM 



[ . . . ]


====================

Your messages are no longer conducive to learning.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Mar 3, 2014 4:12 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.28.209

Re: Send It to the Archives

March 5 2014, 3:38 PM 

You can allow/condone the vulgar response (very first one) for Ken's Easter Ishtar Mother, yet/but edit and delete Bill's comment/and most any other post or comment with dissenting opinon?

Donnie, you can make the claim all day....but you are not a disciple of Christ. I already had accepted that of Ken, but had held hopes out for you Donnie.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Send It to the Archives

March 6 2014, 3:27 AM 

Dave,

It may be a good idea for us to revive the discussion of instrumental music in the assembly ... just between you and Bill.

Regarding debating skills, I think you have the edge over Bill. At least you respond to difficult specific questions. Bill has the tendency to reject or ignore them -- and an intelligent or in-depth discussion of a doctrinal issue dies.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.62.71

Re: Send It to the Archives

March 6 2014, 8:35 AM 

Donnie, an intelligent, in-depth doctrinal discussion dies when the two sides keep hammering the same arguments over and over with neither side willing to yield to the other. At that point, it becomes apparent that the two sides have extracted everything of value from the topic, and further "discussions" become nothing but repetitive exercises in futility. It's better for the two sides to find other topics where the discussions can be more productive.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Send It to the Archives

March 7 2014, 2:15 AM 

To Dave: Here's an example of many specific questions and issues that Bill has refused to address. This was posted above on February 18. Notice his response then. I'm posting it again now to give Bill a second chance to be specific.

Maybe it's time for you to seriously consider the real truth that grammar [YOUR specialty, Dr. Crump] plays a big role in understanding the nature of "the holy Spirit OF God":
  • "THE" is a definite article ["the Spirit" is not a name; we do not say: "The Jehovah"].
  • "HOLY" is an adjective that modifies "spirit"; certainly, God's "spirit" is holy while man's spirit is unholy.
  • "SPIRIT" is an improper noun (meaning: wind, power, breath, mind) as opposed to a proper noun.
  • "OF" is a preposition indicating ownership; the spirit belongs to the Father or Christ the Lord -- it is not a separate being.
  • God the Father or His Son Jesus Christ is to whom "the holy spirit" belongs.
Bill, even simple logic tells me that "the not-so-holy spirit OF Donnie" [definite article, adjective, improper noun, preposition, proper noun -- in that order] is not a separate being or person apart from Donnie, and IT [my spirit] does not have a name.

Now, tell me this: is "the almost-holy spirit of Bill Crump" a separate person or being apart from Bill Crump? Does it have a name?

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.211.149

Re: Send It to the Archives

March 7 2014, 9:46 AM 

As Donnie did, I will also direct my response to Dave: This is just one example why doctrinal discussions die. I answered Donnie's question earlier, and in my own way, but, as usual, Donnie rejected it, because it wasn't the answer he wanted; it wasn't the answer that agreed with Donnie's particular theology. So, as usual, Donnie keeps asking the same question over and over, demanding an "answer" that suits him. You just can't have a productive discussion with tactics like that.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Send It to the Archives

March 8 2014, 2:28 AM 

That's Bill! He responds to anything else but.... He knows that a careful, thorough analysis of the grammatical structure of the biblical expression "the holy spirit OF God" will DEBUNK his perception that God's holy spirit is a SEPARATE PERSON APART FROM God.

The big nose OF [whose owner is] Durante is another person of Durante. Really, Bill?

I was really and truly very interested in Bill's explanation of the expression from a grammatical standpoint.

Case proven -- he rejects or ignores specific questions he is incapable of answering.

Again, Bill, please do not waste my time and yours anymore.





 
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