Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Bill
(no login)
74.179.211.28

Re: God Overall or in 3 Persons?

January 9 2014, 12:14 AM 

Who's complaining when seeing all these recycled arguments is so entertaining?

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: God Overall or in 3 Persons?

January 9 2014, 12:47 AM 

That you're so entertained -- no surprise there. Speak for yourself ... only.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.210.54

Re: God Overall or in 3 Persons?

January 9 2014, 1:17 AM 

I am speaking for myself, but I do kinda have the feelin' that many other readers are just as pleasantly entertained. However, you shouldn't let that bother you. happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: God Overall or in 3 Persons?

January 10 2014, 4:52 AM 

It must bother you -- you're the one making your personal observations and comments. Get a grip.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.242.106

Re: God Overall or in 3 Persons?

January 10 2014, 9:31 AM 

It obviously bothers you that anyone would find all this endless recycling of arguments business as entertaining. You see that as "complaining," when it's simply reminding everyone how much time is wasted on all this useless repetition of academic arguments. happy.gif



==========================

Please ...


stopitanigif.gif


Thanks!


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Jan 11, 2014 12:12 AM


 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Denial Doesn't Negate the Truth....Ever

January 8 2014, 3:50 AM 

Servant,

No, I am not a Democrat. Neither am I a RINO (Republican in Name Only). I am a conservative Republican.

Yes, I denounce the [Catholic] Trinity Creed espousing Person No. 1 as God, Person No. 2 as God, Person No. 3 as God -- all in ONE.

There is only ONE GOD -- the Father. There is only ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST. In fact, many passages reveal that the distinction is made between God and the Son of God -- in addition to every other epistle's salutation (from Romans to Jude) that makes that distinction all the while that the Trinity's "Holy Spirit" is ABSENT:

  • Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. (John 6:27)

  • But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (I Cor. 8:6)

  • Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) ... Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, (Gal. 1:1,3)

  • Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (Eph. 6:23)

  • And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:11)

  • Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (I Thess. 1:1)

  • To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. (II Tim. 1:2)

  • To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (Titus 1:4)

  • Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (I Peter 1:2)

  • For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (II Peter 1:17)

  • Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. (II John 1:3)

  • Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: (Jude 1:1)

Due to lack of time, let me briefly mention that John 1:1,14 clearly teaches that it was "the Word" that was made flesh. Let's not change the truth to the PERCEPTION OR ASSUMPTION that "Jesus became Jesus."

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Prepositions (OF, IN) That Trouble Biblical Scholars and Trinitarians

January 7 2014, 8:25 PM 

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jesus was declared The Son of God after He was baptized. We become or are begotten sons when we are baptized. We are not gods but SONS of God. Sons cannot be from all eternity and Sons cannot become Gods.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
.....(and we beheld his glory,
.....the glory AS OF the only begotten of the Father,)
.....full of grace and truth.

You remember that "like" or AS OF is parable speak: Jesus always spoke parables to fool the merchants. Jesus was FLESH before He was baptized and declared a special or beloved SON OF GOD. He was not a SON until He became a SON. The WORD of God is not FLESH because it has no bones and blood.

Jesus was also

.....full of grace and truth.

.....Titus 2:11 For the GRACE of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
.....Titus 2:12 TEACHING us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
.....we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

The GRACE of God hath APPEARED as Jesus of Nazareth: Jesus is NOT grace but a people.

Grace and Truth and Word are not called people

He was FULL of truth: Thy WORD is Truth. The container is not that which it contains. The FULLNESS of Deity or the nature of God DWELLED in Jesus of Nazareth.

A WORD becomes FLESH when it is ARTICULATED.

God set Jesus as the SEED of David as KING over His kingdom after He was glorified and returned as "THE HOLY SPIRIT" or the BREATH of God who guided the Apostles into all truth. His throne will last until Jesus returns again and He will RETURN THE THRONE to God.

Psalms 2:6 Yet have I set my KING upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me,
.....Thou art my Son; THIS DAYhave I begotten thee.
Psalms 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,
.....and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Neither David nor his son were BEGOTTEN before they were BEGOTTEN: that which is begotten CANNOT be the Begetter.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the SAME unto us their children,
.....in that he hath raised up Jesus again;
.....as it is also written in the second psalm,
.....Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
.....Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I begotten thee?
.....And again, I WILL BE TO HIM a Father,
..... and he SHALL BE TO me a Son?

Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest;
.....but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, TODAY have I begotten thee.

A god person cannot be HATCHED. That is why it was the WORD which classical trinitarians call God's SONS. We beget words of ourself when we breath (spirit) and articulate. If I e-mail a daughter and she speaks it to another daughter then my words become flesh.

The Glory AS OF the Father was flesh or an Image of the Invisible God. If Jesus was a God person then a smart God would have said, "I BECAME JESUS." The WORD was WITH God because IT Was God or what God spoke. It was not a GOD which became visible-Audible but the WORD when God BREATHED into the MAN Jesus of Nazareth. The double edged sword defines the LIPS which are FLESH.

 
 Respond to this message   
Scripture
(no login)
98.87.118.247

Jesus the Same

January 7 2014, 9:04 PM 

Someone please explain Hebrews 13:8. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."

The verse is followed by the statement that teachings are not to be varied or strange (newly invented).

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Jesus the Same

January 8 2014, 10:33 AM 

Yes, I noticed that: I think He may still be wandering around in Palestine.

But, I remember that He was changed or metamorphosed.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Prepositions (OF, IN) That Trouble Biblical Scholars and Trinitarians

January 8 2014, 11:21 AM 

No one ever claimed that the Greek and all other trinity was taught in the Bible: that is why people break their necks trying to INSINUATE the trinity by isolated passages even when Jesus always defines a FATHER-SON relationship and for reeders-of-righting is explicit in denying what has evolved out of Lipscomb University first published in 1942.

Again, people despise everyone and blaspheme by saying that God was not smart enough to define His-Their relationship, BUT, we can define it since WE can be a greater-than Moses or a Greater-than Jesus in this post-modern, post-Christiandom, post-literacy era.

The Spirit OF Christ defined the SAME doctrines for the REST day of the godly Jews as well as the REST DAY after the Jew's covenant with death and hell (Amos and the music thingy) had been put down. That means that A Church of Christ cannot, will not have BURDEN LADERS performing the LADED BURDEN which is defined as that MUSICAL thing.

The Synagogue as a School of the Word Only assembly by and for the members now has Jesus as the ONLY TEACHER when there are APT elders to PREACH the Word by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine. Spiritual Formation happens only when the WORD of God is taught and MUTUALLY CONFESSED.

If you have added CHANGES to the Church in the wilderness beyond the Lord's Supper which is to SET YOU UP not to listen to anyone who did not die for you, they you have CHANGED by adding to and taking from the WORD, LOGOS, Regulative Principle.

[linked image]


 
 Respond to this message   
Scripture
(no login)
98.87.118.247

Mutually Confessed

January 8 2014, 11:33 AM 

Do they do this in the Presbyterian, when the elder reads the word of God,

and then they have a responsive reading, that is "mutually confessed."

Usually this is a statement about how depraved the confessor is.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Mutually Confessed

January 8 2014, 12:47 PM 

That's a fact: that's why true Presbyterians still reject secular follies and instruments. I appreciated the Precenter (not a musical worship leader) during the Pope's mass sing-songing or chanting a passage of Scripture and the congregation was competent to repeat it proving that in SOME places the direct commands are still honored.

The TRUTH does not depend on the secrets of the precenter but they should not follow a hypocrite (preacher, singer, instrument player, actor or dancer)

Paul said that is where we speak the SAME (homo) Word (logos) with one mouth using the WORDS God has given us as the only vehicles of PRAISE meaning to tell HIS story in HIS WORDS.

1Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
leg3 9.to boast of, tell of, Xen.: to recite what is written, labe to biblion kai lege Plat., etc.:but the sense of Lat. lego, to read, only occurs in compds., analegomai, epilegomai.
1.to say, speak, Hdt., Trag., etc.; lege say on, Hdt.; so, legois an Plat.: of oracles, to say, declare,

Of ALL speaking roles:

1Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

G3670 homologeo hom-ol-og-eh'-o From a compound of the base of G3674 and G3056 ; to assent, that is, covenant, acknowledge:con- (pro-) fess, confession is made, give thanks, promise.
Then there can be no OPINIONS EXPRESSED:

Log-ion , to,
A.oracle, esp. one preserved from antiquity,
2. ta l. Kuriou the sayings of the Lord, LXX Ps.11(12).6, cf.Act.Ap.7.38, Ep.Rom.3.2, 1 Ep.Pet.4.11.

skhis-ma , atos, to,
II. division of opinion, Ev Jo.9.16.
III. the vulva, Ruf.Onom.110.
IV. name of an orkhstikon skhma, [no dancing or pantomimic artist]

Too tired for COLOR.


 
 Respond to this message   
Scripture
(no login)
98.87.118.247

Hearing what is Sung

January 8 2014, 2:43 PM 

So then, mechanical instruments and innovations of song and melody distract (sometimes totally) from the words of mutual confession in song, or at least the possibility of mutual confession.

Unlike the distracting song service, the recitation of confession strikes the hearer both from the heart and in the heart, in that he or she is both hearing and confessing simultaneously. This then, if the pure word, undistracted by mechanics or innovation.




 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Hearing what is Sung

January 8 2014, 4:00 PM 

That's the pattern and it eleminates all discord. Then, everyone can believe what they wish but however distorted the church becomes the Scriptures are still there for the next generation.

 
 Respond to this message   
Servant
(no login)
130.127.42.38

Love It

January 8 2014, 5:54 PM 

John 17
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Donnie, Ken.....what was Jesus when He was in God's presence, before the world began? Was He Jesus, the Son of God, the Word?

Donnie, you said "Due to lack of time, let me briefly mention that John 1:1,14 clearly teaches that it was "the Word" that was made flesh. Let's not change the truth to the PERCEPTION OR ASSUMPTION that "Jesus became Jesus."

You can deny what you don't like to admit, but you can't deny the Scriptures.
Would you be comfortable with a DUO, instead of a TRINITY?

John 1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Do you have a problem believing that if the Word WAS God, then the Word IS and WILL ALWAYS BE God?

Donnie, do the Scriptures say, in John 1 verse 1 that The Word (later to be named Jesus and to become the Son of God) was created by God, or that the Word WAS God? If the Word WAS God, then God is Jesus. There is no alternative. None! Jesus was God in the flesh, correct??? That is why Jesus couldn't sin nor disappoint the Father, because He was God come down to earth. Yes Ken, I know that the Word wasn't made flesh when the author is talking about "the glory I had with you before the world began? God can take any sort of form that He wishes, Spirit or in the flesh. John 17 proves that the Word, later named Jesus after He took on a human form, and later becoming the Son of God, WAS always with God. Why? John 1 verse 1 "...and the Word WAS God.

Ken, bring on some more kool-aid...the masses are getting thirsty.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: Love It

January 8 2014, 8:34 PM 

All who just hear the Word of the gospel, are baptized: their spirits are translated into a heavenly kingdom.

We are all LOST SPIRITS in the World but not OF the World. That is a very small number or LITTLE FLOCK as strangers and sojourners on the earth. Lots of things are going on in those other 7 dimensions: "IN HIM we live, move and have our being." After His resurrection Jesus still existed as The Holy Spirit as His assignment. I am quite certain that the Spirit of Jesus existed.

Jesus was not the CHRIST of God until God made Him to be both Lord and Christ. Only after that is Jesus of Nazareth called Jesus Christ. He was not Lord and Christ until God made Him so.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was


Here is how it works:

Ecclesiastes 12:5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.


Jesus is the EXCEPTION in that His body did not suffer corruption but was made into a "spiritual body" so that He appeared to Paul and said "I am Jesus of Nazareth."

It was not JESUS but CHRIST as the Rock, Manna, Pillar, Angel. This was not Jesus of Nazareth because Moses promised that God would send A PROPHET LIKE ME. I am quite certain that the spirit of Moses returned to God Who gave it but his body was buried.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.211.32

Re: Love It

January 8 2014, 9:08 PM 

All this was brought out in the thread Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth. So why is it being rehashed yet again here? Nobody's views that were posted earier have changed. Seeing people wasting their time recycling old views and getting worked up about them again and again is definitely entertaining, however. happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Love It

January 10 2014, 4:36 AM 

There's no question that biblical proofs and evidences are worth recycling. Serious Bible students study and learn continually. Why not? Even your philosophical views, psychological analyses, complaints and attitudinal demeanor are being recycled. Keep us entertained.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

There Is: (1) But One God, the Father, AND (2) One Lord Jesus Christ

January 10 2014, 4:16 AM 

Trinitarians think that they believe there is only one God by formulating this equation:

(1) Person No. 1: God the Father
(2) Person No. 2: God the Son
(3) Person No. 3: God the Holy Spirit

Three Gods as one God? A mathematical and logical impossibility!

Three in One? 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1 God?

The Blessed Trinity? Persons 1 and 2 and 3. Who developed this numbering system? Was it based on chronology, ranking, hierarchy? In fact, Jesus Christ is the only person, the only begotten Son of God.

The Holy Spirit (a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father or the Spirit OF Jesus Christ) is NOT a person. Truth is that the Scripture speaks of the communication and the relationship ONLY between the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ His Son. Read the entire gospel of John and the salutation in each of the epistles from Romans to Jude.

Jesus Christ himself said that we are to worship the Father (John 4:21-24) in spirit and in truth.

Jesus Christ told the truth: "... for there is one God; and there is none other but he" (Mark 12:32).

So, there is ONLY ONE GOD -- the Father. How many scriptural references should there be to prove that the Father is our only God?

  • Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? (Mal. 2:10)

  • And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: (Mark 12:32)

  • Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. (Rom. 3:30)

  • One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Eph. 4:6)

  • For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (I Tim.2:5)

  • Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. (James 2:19)

  • But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (I Cor. 8:6)

    Does this passage say [as well as other passages] that the one Lord Jesus Christ is God or that the Holy Spirit is God? I think NOT.


ONLY "THE FATHER" IS "GOD" IN ALL CASES:
  • Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. (John 6:27)

  • But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (I Cor. 8:6)

  • Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) ... Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, (Gal. 1:1,3)

  • Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (Eph. 6:23)

  • And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:11)

  • Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (I Thess. 1:1)

  • To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. (II Tim. 1:2)

  • To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (Titus 1:4)

  • Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (I Peter 1:2)

  • For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (II Peter 1:17)

  • Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. (II John 1:3)

  • Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: (Jude 1:1)

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD, THE FATHER (I Cor. 8:6).

THERE IS ONLY ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST (I Cor. 8:6).

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.242.106

One God the Father, One Lord Jesus Christ, AND One Holy Spirit

January 10 2014, 10:14 AM 

First Corinthians 8:6 and many similar passages focus on God the Father and Jesus Christ; they do not focus on the Holy Spirit. If we read just those passages, we may conclude that there is a DUALITY in heaven instead of a TRINITY. Likewise, we may form an altered impression if we read just the many "faith" passages and conclude that only faith is required for salvation. If we read more passages, we learn that confession, repentance, and baptism are also required.

If we read further, we learn that there is one Father, One Son, AND one Holy Spirit--THREE--as given in Matt. 28:19, not just two. The three are NOT physical persons, as some people stubbornly insist. They are THREE heavenly, spiritual beings. We must learn to read a broad spectrum of passages to get the "big picture."

 
 Respond to this message   
 
< Previous Page 12 3 4 5 614 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter