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Scripture
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98.87.118.247

Personalities?

January 10 2014, 11:41 AM 

Could we resolve these issues by just calling them "personalities" rather than "persons"?

For example, a schizophrenic can have different personalities.

This might solve the problem for the Unitarians as well as the Trinitarians, and everybody else in between.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Personae?

January 11 2014, 3:45 AM 

I believe that "persons" is man's designation to prove the validity of the Trinity Creed. How easy to assert: "God in Three Persons, Blessed Trinity." Jesus' birth made him a person when "the Word" was made flesh.

"Personalities" may be an improvement, but we still have the tendency to associate "personality" with the person; Jesus Christ is the person, not "the holy Spirit of God," and not God our Father in heaven.

Since "persona" or "personae" is defined as a role or a representation of a character, such an expression may be suitable to an entity which can be a non-person. For example, when we identify the Spirit [mind or power] of God as a non-person entity, His (God's or Christ's) Spirit has the role to comfort, to dwell, to sanctify, to teach -- as though it were a person.

It makes sense to make a very significant comparison between God and man.

(1) God or His Son Jesus Christ has a spirit (or mind) ... and it is HOLY. It is "the Holy Spirit"!!!!!

(2) Man has a spirit, and/but his spirit is not a separate being, is it? Man/s spirit is unholy, though, or not so holy; it has unholy tendencies sad.gif

Thanks for bringing this up.

 
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Bill
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74.179.205.202

Re: Personalities?

January 11 2014, 8:06 AM 

I prefer "spiritual beings," because it is a far more accurate term than "personalities" and completely avoids the erroneous notion that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three physical "persons."

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Personalities?

January 11 2014, 3:03 PM 

You're stating the obvious about "physical persons" -- even your fellow Catholic Trinity adherents do not believe in the "Three Physical Persons"; they simply believe in "Three Persons." Period.

"Beings" does not make it different from "persons." Otherwise, the Trinity Creed (a man-made dogma) would have to be revised as "God in Three Beings, Blessed Trinity." Would you inform the Pope and the Catholic Church and Protestant Churches of that revision?

"Spiritual beings" is your defense mechanism for the Catholic Trinity dogma because your perception is that "God's holy spirit [or mind or power]" is a being. There is no proof of "the holy spirit OF God" as a separate spiritual being apart from God Himself.

The truth that "the Spirit OF God":

... was the "power" that "moved upon the face of the waters" in creation (Genesis 1:2) ...

... or was "as of a rushing mighty wind" (Acts 2:2) at Pentecost when the church was established in Jerusalem ...

... or assumes the role in the Christian to teach, to comfort, to dwell, to sanctify, etc., as though it were a person or being ...

... does not make the Spirit of the Father/Son a SEPARATE BEING from God or the Son of God.

 
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Bill
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74.179.242.197

Re: Personalities?

January 11 2014, 4:53 PM 

Since Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three physical persons, then using "personalities" or "personae" still hints that they are physical persons. To avoid that, use "spiritual beings" instead. Problem solved. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

"The Mystery of God [the Father] Is IN Christ Jesus"

January 11 2014, 8:15 PM 

Bill,

You are NOT responding to pages of specifics in the discussion. Brother, are you OK?

When a Christian acknowledges that "the mystery of God (the Father) is IN Christ Jesus" (Colossians 2:2), the problem is solved for the Christian. "For in him [the Lord Jesus Christ] dwelleth all the FULNESS of the Godhead (Colossians 2:9)

"The FULNESS of the Godhead" is in Christ Jesus. Period!!!

"The [definite article] holy [adjective] spirit [improper noun] of [preposition] God ['the Father']" is NOT a person in the Godhead."

 
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Bill
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74.179.245.254

Re: "The Mystery of God [the Father] Is IN Christ Jesus"

January 11 2014, 9:18 PM 

I responded to the discussion about "personalities" and "personae" that you and Scripture brought up. I try to match my responses to others' posts, but they don't always appear exactly under the post to which I'm responding. Of course, I have no control over exactly where my responses appear. Perhaps the situation could be remedied if our messages were posted immediately upon hitting the "Respond" button. Are you finding it difficult to concentrate? You frequently post in the wee hours of the morning, anywhere from 3 to 5 AM, so perhaps a lack of sleep is affecting your ability to concentrate where posts should be placed. Whatever, my comments speak for themselves, regardless of where you choose to place them. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: "The Mystery of God [the Father] Is IN Christ Jesus"

January 14 2014, 1:28 AM 

Bill,

(1) In discussing "personalities" and "personae," I certainly presented specifics to prove that the "spirit of God" is "power" or "wind," etc. -- not a person or being. You ignored the scriptural references and failed to make a rebuttal in favor of your "perception."

(2) The placement of responses is strictly in accordance with the forum's design and structure: (2.a) only a response to the thread's INITIAL POST is AUTOMATICALLY placed/indented leftmost; (2.b) a response to a particular post is AUTOMATICALLY placed IMMEDIATELY BELOW that particular post; (2.c) use a ruler or an imaginary columnar line to determine the placement of a response. The forum's automated structure is consistent and does not make a human error.

(3) No, Bill, my concentration is fine. You, instead, have a real problem responding to specific and detailed questions and illustrations -- you often ignore them.

(4) My schedule is mine -- not yours. Your uncalled-for personal criticisms of me and this website are despicable, but understandably, that's just Dr. William Crump.

(5) Moderators have no control over where YOU CHOOSE to place your responses.

-----------------------

OK, no more off-topic remarks [concentration, "wee hours") from you or me will be published below this post. Thank you for cooperating.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ

January 11 2014, 2:57 AM 

This would make a good sub-title: There Is One Spirit -- The Holy Spirit of God
  1. The numerous passages quoted in my post identify "the Godhead" specifically mentioned in Colossians 2. That Christians may know or acknowledge "the mystery of God" (the Father) IN Christ Jesus" is in verse 2. "[v. 9] For in him [the Lord Jesus Christ] dwelleth all the FULNESS of the Godhead bodily."

  2. Because God the Father is in heaven, "... great is the mystery of godliness: God was MANIFEST IN THE FLESH" (I Tim. 3:16). Does "manifest"mean "become"? I think NOT. How can it be "IN THE FLESH"? Or, does "manifest" mean "to make known" or "to reveal"? We'll discuss this more later on.

  3. In all of these passages, it's all about God the Father and the Son of God -- the Lord Jesus Christ, the [only] PERSON, the Messiah. The Holy Spirit is NOT in "the Godhead" (Colossians 2:9).

  4. There is only ONE Holy Spirit [NOT a separate being] taught in Ephesians 4:4 and I Cor. 12:13.

  5. "The holy Spirit OF God" (Ephesians 4:30) is one which belongs to both the Father (Matt. 10:20) and His Son Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:9; Romans 8:9; I Peter 1:11).

  6. It is not Trinity (3 PERSONS) in the Godhead.

  7. It is not duality, either, as that would imply 2 PERSONS. The Godhead simply is the mystery of God in Christ Jesus. There is, however, a relationship or communication between God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

  8. Christians generally do not comprehend the real meaning in II Cor. 8:6 and other supporting passages -- that "there is ONLY one God, the Father." That excludes the Father's Son Jesus Christ, as well the Trinity's 3rd Person Holy Spirit.

  9. Just specifically for Bill, an avid grammarian, I find you unwillingly to meticulously explain the parts of speech pertinent to what the Holy Scripture has to say regarding the Trinity Creed:

    • The preposition "OF" in "the holy Spirit OF God" is far from being similar to "the box OF candy"
    • The preposition "IN" in "God IN Christ Jesus" -- meaning?
    • The word "spirit," an improper noun, what is its meaning?
    • The word "holy," an adjective that modifies the improper noun "spirit"
    • The article "the" preceding "holy spirit" not indicating a proper name
    • "The holy spirit" of God is not a name
    • (Dr. Bill did not pay attention to the word "but" or "only" in: "There is BUT ONE GOD, the Father" -- you still want to perceive that "the holy Spirit OF God" IS the 3rd Person God.)

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ

January 11 2014, 11:20 AM 

Do you think that the spirit (mind) OF bill lives outside of Bill?

 
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Scripture
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98.87.118.247

MInd in you

January 11 2014, 12:20 PM 

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Philippians 2:5

 
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Bill
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74.179.12.170

Re: God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ

January 11 2014, 12:22 PM 

When the spirit/soul of Bill leaves Bill and dwells outside of Bill, then Bill's physical body dies, for the physical body cannot live without the soul/spirit dwelling within and animating it.

On the other hand, God's "body" is spiritual. His Spirit CAN AND DOES dwell within God's spiritual "body" AND as a separate entity. Observe:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26 KJV).

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me" (John 15:26 KJV).


The first verse above says that the Father will send the Holy Ghost (AKA Comforter) in the name of (that is, by the authority of) Jesus. The second verse above says that Jesus will send the Holy Ghost from the Father to testify of Jesus. If the Holy Ghost can be sent thither and yon as God or Jesus wills, then it can exist as a separate, spiritual being outside the spiritual "body" of God. The Holy Ghost could not do that if it were ALWAYS intimately attached to and incorporated within God.


 
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Anonymous
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ

January 11 2014, 7:45 PM 

Holy really means NOTHING: not a good name. Holy means WITHOUT anything else. Pure grape juice does not have pureness ADDED: If it has nothing added to it then it is pure. A sacred or holy vessel does not have holiness added to it: If you wash the vessel then it is holy. Name means Name.

Jesus promised "another" Comforter meaning "different in some respects." Jesus was different because He was Holy Spirit. Then He said:

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Spirit means BREATH: when Jesus breathed (wind) in the upper room the apostles SPOKE WORDS.

Jesus was changed into a SPIRIT state and received the promise or ASSIGNMENT as Holy Spirit. God sent Him:

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26 KJV).

The NAME of the Comforter (Paraklete) will be NAMED Jesus Christ the Righteous. The Same John made that clear:

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin,
we have an advocate [Paraklete] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

When the Spirit lord appeared to and spoke to Paul--as a blinding light--He said, "I am Jesus of Nazareth."

God SENT Jesus as Holy Spirit: Jesus came or sent Himself. He said I WILL COME TO YOU.

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me" (John 15:26 KJV).

The Father breaths and the Son articulates. This was not A HOLY SPIRIT PERSON but the Spirit OF or mental disposition OF TRUTH. Jesus said MY WORDS are SPIRIT and they are life.

Psalms 119:140 Thy word is very pure [purged or refined]: therefore thy servant loveth it.
Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

 
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Scripture
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98.87.118.247

God's Spiritual Body

January 11 2014, 8:39 PM 

If God has a spiritual body, then he would exist in a specific time and space.

Yet God is omnipresent, in that He is everywhere at every time (universal and non-temporal).

So God dwells in Himself, and outside Himself as well.

"God" is with us, each one of us.

As sure as God sends his gifts to us, He sends us His Holy Spirit.

 
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Anonymous
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.107.21

Re: God's Spiritual Body

January 11 2014, 9:00 PM 

That's true: Jesus said my WORDS are SPIRIT and LIFE.

The SPIRIT in Ephesians 5 is the WORD OF CHRIST in Colossians 3 where we are to SPEAK the WORD only and not SANG silly sally.

 
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Bill
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74.179.245.254

Re: God's Spiritual Body

January 11 2014, 9:24 PM 

Yes, the Holy Spirit dwells within as well as apart from God. Thus, when apart from God, the Holy Spirit is a separate, spiritual being, NOT a separate, physical "person," NOT a "personality," and NOT a "persona."

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: God's Spiritual Body

January 14 2014, 1:44 AM 

Bill,

"The Holy Spirit" dwells apart from God? Where? Sounds like a manufactured premise or perception.

 
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Bill
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74.240.208.49

Re: God's Spiritual Body

January 14 2014, 2:36 AM 

You say an idea is "manufactured" because you either do not understand it or refuse to believe it.

John 14:26: God will SEND the Holy Spirit, meaning it will go forth from God..."he [meaning the Holy Spirit] will teach you all things" (KJV).

John 15:26: Jesus will SEND the Holy Spirit, meaning it will go forth from God..."he [meaning the Holy Spirit] shall testify of me [meaning Jesus]" (KJV).

God and Jesus bid the Holy Spirit to come forth from God so that "he" [the Holy Spirit] may teach and testify.

Thus, the Holy Spirit can dwell with God AND apart from God.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

The Resurrected Jesus Christ -- The "Another Comforter"

January 14 2014, 4:13 AM 

Where does "the holy Spirit" [of God] (EPHESIANS 4:30] go when dwelling "apart from God"?

The Comforter referenced in John 14-16 is the resurrected Jesus Christ in Spirit himself. He was the physical comforter while he was living with his disciples. Jesus, while living with them, could not send himself in physical form.

So Jesus promised: "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." (John 14:18)

Then Jesus becomes the "another Comforter" [no longer physically] upon resurrection. (John 14:16)

"I am the ... TRUTH ..." Jesus said of himself in John 14:6.

Then Jesus becomes "the Spirit of truth" upon resurrection (John 14:17).

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you." (John 14:28)

Bill, your response is appreciated. [We've presented this topic numerous times already.]

 
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Bill
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74.179.244.57

Re: The Resurrected Jesus Christ -- The "Another Comforter"

January 14 2014, 8:33 AM 

Surely you of all people are not complaining about seeing a topic presented numerous times already. How many times and in how many different threads that YOU created have YOU recycled and pitched "the Holy Spirit OF God" and railed at the "pagan" Trinity, for example? After all your repetition, you should welcome more of the same. happy.gif

 
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