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Bill
(no login)
74.179.211.129

Re: The Defiant Way: &quot;The old paths ... we will not walk therein&quot;

April 18 2014, 11:27 AM 

A variant of the third form of legalistic Christianity is when a Christian judges other Christians for having a different Biblical interpretation than what he thinks it should be.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Defiant Way: &quot;The old paths ... we will not walk therein&quot;

April 18 2014, 12:19 PM 

That really sounds very familiar.

That's what "change agents" say when New Testament Christians are opposed to their culture-driven approach to biblical interpretation.

Change agent says: "You are a legalist when you don't accept the new form of 'holy entertainment.'"

Change agent says: "You are a legalist when you believe that one must be baptized in order to have his sins remitted in the blood of the Lamb."

The change agents have a long list of planned activities to restructure the New Testament that Christ established, and they accuse NT Christians who are in opposition to their schemes of being legalistic.

 
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Bill
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74.179.204.22

Re: The Defiant Way: &quot;The old paths ... we will not walk therein&quot;

April 18 2014, 1:12 PM 

More specifically, a variant of that third form of legalistic Christianity is the Christian who judges other Christians for interpreting, for example, an issue like "the Spirit OF God" differently than what he thinks it should be. A person like that is a form of religious fanatic that I call a "spiritual nazi." Plagued with a dominating streak, the spiritual nazi sees his own Biblical interpretations as the only ones that are true and correct, whereas all others are completely wrong. A spiritual nazi also tends to condemn all those with different Biblical interpretations as blasphemers and anti-Christs.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Defiant Way: &amp;quot;The old paths ... we will not walk therein&amp;quot;

April 18 2014, 2:03 PM 

Too bad ... you're interpreting the expression "THE spirit OF God" in the same manner as in the expression "the box OF candy."

The Bible speaks of "the spirit of the Lord" numerous times.

The Bible speaks of blasphemers and antichrists.

You may be getting close to calling the Bible a "spiritual nazi" book.

You brought it up again? Get over it, Bill.

 
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Bill
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74.179.13.221

Re: The Defiant Way: &amp;quot;The old paths ... we will not walk therein&amp;quot;

April 18 2014, 2:55 PM 

No, the Bible is not a spiritual nazi. PEOPLE are spiritual nazis, especially if they say that THEIR own interpretation of the Bible is the ONLY true and correct interpretation. Spiritual nazis cannot see themselves for the fanatics they are, because they are too wrapped up in their own interpretations. They are incapable of realizing that other legitimate interpretations of certain Biblical issues do exist. For that reason, spiritual nazis are also spiritual narcissists. They maintain the attitude of "I'm always right and you're always wrong." THAT is what's too bad.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: The Defiant Way: &amp;quot;The old paths ... we will not walk therein&amp;quot;

April 18 2014, 7:52 PM 

General comments about various interpretations! They exist, of course. That's common knowledge, Bill.

No one here is being forced to agree with an interpretation. Presenting an argument or a rebuttal is everyone's privilege or opportunity.

So, simply get on with the discussion of a particular biblical topic or issue, so long as you can handle it.

(I keep re-reading your post above. I don't see it as dealing with an issue being discussed.)

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Salvation and Legalism

April 18 2014, 11:58 AM 

A breakdown of legalism in Christianity (based on the above post):

Above all, contrary to the commonly-held belief in Christianity, Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law -- and that includes the 10 Commandments and the sacrificial system. Rather, we are now under the law of love or the law of Christ which is essentially comprised of the two great commandments: (1) love the Lord thy God and (2) love thy neighbor as thyself. (Gal. 6:2; Matt. 22:37-40)

Let me briefly comment on the points you brought up concerning salvation and legalism (in 3 forms) in the post-OT (Christian) age/dispensation:

1. Attaining salvation; I'd prefer to refer to this segment as "redemption" in His blood. There is no law to keep or observe at this point. Salvation is offered to all (including thieves and murderers) and can be obtained through faith, repentance and immersion in Christ in order to remit all past sins in the blood of the Lamb and to put on the name of Christ; thus, one becomes a Christian (Eph. 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; Acts 2:37,38). There is no legalism involved here. If there is, then it would be an attempt to live under the Mosaic law.

2. Maintaining salvation: The Christian now has the responsibility to continue his faith, and obedience is necessary in Christian living. James 2 clearly explains this (faith AND WORKS). And the Christian is to remain faithful unto death (Rev. 2:10). There is no legalism here. Doing good works or works of righteousness is not legalism.

3. Future salvation: After the Christian's toils and labors and journey on this earth, he will be rewarded the promised life everlasting in heaven. The are numerous passages that make reference to "eternal life" in the end. There is no legalism in what a Christian needs to do to be saved eternally.

Now -- the third form of legalism brought up by Sarge: "when a Christian judges other Christians for not keeping certain codes of conduct that he thinks need to be observed." This is a broad topic in that it now involves a host of biblical or doctrinal issues. That's what this religious discussion forum is for. But then man has come up with this term "legalism" and defines it in different forms in his own way. A discussion of doctrinal differences is simply that.

 
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Sarge
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108.230.196.191

Re: Salvation and Legalism

April 18 2014, 2:45 PM 



Congregational singing is different from performance singing. Perhaps he meant to say performance singing? You know, Twila Paris or Fanny Crosby style of singing?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.197.219.99

Re: Salvation and Legalism

April 18 2014, 3:14 PM 

They BURN Sorcerers you know: The NAZI pattern:

Emerson Emerson's transcendentalism:

"The Supreme Critic on the errors of the past and the present, and the only prophet of that which must be, is that great nature in which we rest... that Unity, that Over-Soul, within which every man's particular being is contained and made one with all other... By the same fire, vital, consecrating, celestial, which burns until it shall dissolve all things into the waves and surges of an ocean of light, we see and know each other, and what spirit each is of."

"It is unquestionably true that music possesses a fusing and welding power
.....tending to convert a mass of separate individual souls into one great oversoul having a common vision and a single purpose.

This unified expression in song of human needs and aspirations is a great uplifting force; it takes from each his burden of care and sorrow and causes him to
.....forget self in a rebirth in a rightly directed collective emotion of his fellows.

The participants, LOOSING the capacity for individual thought, live for the moment a fuller life because they consciously share that of a greater whole...The volume of song that rises from the congregation serves as a curtain behind which the cares, anxieties and activities of the six proceeding days are unconsciously relegated

.....and the mind, cleared of worldly thoughts, becomes receptive of moral truths and spiritual teachings. In the soul-soil thus prepared, the preacher can, with a power increased


That's why Jesus commanded that we PREACH the Word by READING the word for COMFORT and Doctrine. The Cantillation marks PREVENTED any pauses, ums, ahhs, personal comments or inflections of the voice ALL of which seeks to ENHANCE the Word of God and is therefore called SORCERY.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.197.219.99

Singing the NAZI note

April 18 2014, 6:15 PM 

Jubal was the FATHER (spermator) of those who HANDLE (without authority: in a sexual sense as Eve's TOUCH) all of the musical instruments. In the Babylonian story he was she as Inanna or Ishtar the mother EASTER where we RECRUCIFY Jesus because we WANT to do that. She-He shows up in Revelation where Abaddon-Apollyon is the leader of the locusts or MUSES (known in the classics as dirty adulteresses) John called SORCERER.

The MARK ON CAIN: I don't know but his NAME is a MUSICAL NOTE.

The Late J.E.Choate agreed that my Maciavelli quotations defined Rubel Shelly Perfectly. The same scheme of the GROUP MENTALITY was used by Shelly instead of Group Mind to look original. Hitler in Mein Kampf defined the mass meetings of BONDING the Instrumentalists as KEY SPEAKERS had the effect of convincing the simple minded because of the FRIENDLY persona of the wolves looking for sheep--your sheep. As Emerson noted the common material (Hitler's Word) LOVES to be fooled: Paul said that of the Corinthians. This is the mark of a NAZI who tells his lie often enough and even he believes it.

http://www.piney.com/mkv2ch06.html

The mass meeting is also necessary for the reason that in it the individual, who at first while becoming a supporter of a young movement, feels lonely and easily succumbs to the fear of being alone, for the first time gets the picture of a larger community, which in most people has a strengthening, encouraging effect.

The same man, within a company or a battalion, surrounded by all his comrades, would set out on an attack with a lighter heart than if left entirely on his own.

In the crowd he always feels somewhat sheltered, even if a thousand reasons actually argue against it.

But the community of the great demonstration not only strengthens the individual, it also unites and helps to create an esprit de corps. The man who is exposed to grave tribulations, as the first advocate of a new doctrine in his factory or workshop, absolutely needs that strengthening which lies in the conviction of being a member and fighter in a great comprehensive body.

And he obtains an impression of this body for the first time in the mass demonstration. When from his little workshop or big factory, in which he feels very small, he steps for the first time into a mass meeting and has thousands and thousands of people of the same opinions around him, when, as a seeker, (Als Suchender.' A Wagnerian phrase, which Hitler was apparently determined to use at all costs) he is swept away by three or four thousand others into the mighty effect of suggestive intoxication and enthusiasm, when the visible success and agreement of thousands confirm to him the rightness of the new doctrine and for the first time arouse doubt in the truth of his previous conviction -

then he himself has succumbed to the magic influence of what we designate as 'mass suggestion.'

The will, the longing, and also the power of thousands are accumulated in every individual. The man who enters such a meeting doubting and wavering leaves it inwardly reinforced: he has become a link in the community.

The National Socialist movement must never forget this and in particular it must never let itself be influenced by those bourgeois s who know everything better, but who nevertheless have gambled away a great state including their own existence and the rule of their class.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
162.72.101.93

Re: Understanding Change Agents (by John Waddey)

April 13 2014, 5:22 PM 

We have said and said that the reason Paul wants both men and women to sit down and be silent is so that "we might all be saved (safe) and come to a knowledge of the truth." The problem was that both men and women would CLAIM that what they were selling or DEMONSTRATING for inspection was inspired, acceptable and not OUTLAWED.

The women presiding over and offering AUTORITY which is Authentia meaning both erotic and murderous is not so much THE SIN is that it is a mark of of sorcerers named after the original Babylon Mother of harlots and John says that they WILL BE (are) CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. This is the end of the road where Christ warned about women and BOYS ruling over you: in Isaiah 30 the SOUNDS are of God driving His enemies into "hell". We can talk and talk but Paul warned in Ephesians 4 that THEY LIE IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

In prophecy the REAL kingdom which does not come to such observations is defined as an UMBRELLUM or a Safe House until the Raging of Satan and those OF the world spends its wrath.

The Babylon Mother of Harlots using lusted after fruits and Muses where Abaddon or Apollyon is always the Musical Worship leader. The Muses as his "worship team" were known as dirty adulteresses because they were SHEPHERDESSES."

And they DO intimidate you to make you PAY for the virtual orgy.

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.197.219.99

Re: Understanding Change Agents (by John Waddey)

April 18 2014, 12:39 PM 

Lucky for us both the Bible and the historic texts define LEGALISM in very clear terms. Remember that Jesus said that the kingdom does not come with observation. He connected that with the demand NOT to go out to any PLACE which claimed to be the visible kingdom. That would be pretty hard and a way to MARK the legalists because the kingdom of Christ in its historic form was A School of the Word. That puts "worship" IN the PLACE of the human, washed spirit made into A holy spirit. The ACT is Reading and Musing the Word of God. The LAW of the spiritual kingdom is the command to PREACH the Word by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine. It is mind bending to listen to people try to SANG and CLANGE the Psalms but very COMFORTING and doctrinal in both a positive and negative sense.

The LEARNING where DISCIPLES of Christ go to "learn that which is written for our LEARNING" is the ONLY "worship" IN THE SPIRIT concept from the Wilderness until today but NOT at your WORSHIP CENTER.

LEGALISM is something YOU do which claims that YOU can AWAKEN the god (David and worship teams) or claiming to LEAD you into the presence of God. Silly Sally was APT to understand that:

[linked image]
[linked image]

It does not require a Doctorate of the Law MARKING one as "taking away the key to knowledge" to be able to READ the Word so that we all "Speak the same things" all over the world.

We KNOW the meaning of LEGALISM because we READ while the not APT for prime time preachers preens and the singers sing and fling. You cannot WORSHIP while singing and clapping and you cannot give attention to the Prophets and Apostles while giving attention the singing sisters who WANT you to give attention to her talent.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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