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Bill
(no login)
74.179.14.174

Re: Part B informing those practicing MYTHS and FABULAS

May 9 2014, 6:12 PM 

Isn't that what Ken is trying to "teach"--that the only way to appreciate and understand the Word of God is if we have a vivid imagination aided by all sorts of mythology and fables?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

1 Timothy 4 NIV part C

May 9 2014, 6:08 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Can we learn from pagan theology?

May 9 2014, 7:03 PM 

Yes.

By the third century, opposition to instrumental music had increased significantly as a movement. This corresponded to the rise in asceticism, which sought to offset sexual debauchery. The leaders in that century wanted to create a holiness, that distinguished the church from the world.

Historically speaking, the continued debauchery of the culture threatened the church, and this could only be understood by looking at the wider pagan culture, and was something learned quite apart from the scriptures.

The scriptures were teaching holiness, of course, but the movement against instrumental music was necessary to augment the teaching of the scriptures.

Instrumental music had become the handmaiden of sexuality and license.




 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.14.174

Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 9 2014, 7:20 PM 

Is it suitable today for ministers to make a habit of preaching about pagan mythology in all of their sermons? Would members of congregations learn more about the Gospel and salvation if ministers talked at great length about the god Pan, for example?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 9 2014, 11:51 PM 

Bill, did you even read the post to which you responded? You didn't even comment about it.

We've already done our searches and come up with the number of references in the entire Bible to idol, idols, idolatry, fables, tales, graven images, gods, goddess, etc. -- over 650 references!!!

The key point is "idolatry," which includes musical idolatry, which includes musical instruments used by humankind to "worship" God, which is often associated with dancing, etc. (Actually, you've missed the gist of why we've been discussing pagan activities from a historical perspective and as evidences of what the Bible has already revealed.)

Your comparison between: (1) pagan mythology [as in "literature" and apart from a biblical standpoint] and (2) salvation simply does not compute.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.210.115

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 10 2014, 1:15 AM 

Donnie, I'm not surprised that you didn't understand.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 10 2014, 8:49 PM 

Bill,

(1) Please check to see if "pagan mythology" course online is offered by the following institutions -- all by itself without any connection to the Holy Scripture -- then, you may want to register for the course if you're interested:

---- University of Phoenix
---- DeVry University Online
---- Roger Travis at University of Connecticut
---- Patricia Salzman at Montclair State University
---- University of Waterloo
---- Medieval Latin Online (University of Oklahoma)
---- ... and many others

(2) Here at CM, there is that keen awareness that the Holy Scripture speaks of idolatry [including musical idolatry], and you should know by now statistically the number of times the Bible refers to the words: idol, idols, idolatry, fables, tales, graven images, gods, goddess, etc.

We do not question the number of times God says: "Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God" (Lev. 26:1).

(3) You have already answered your own question by saying: "The ministers I know do not make it a habit of mixing pagan mythology with the Gospel in their sermons."

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.210.115

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 10 2014, 1:25 AM 

The ministers I know do not make it a habit of mixing pagan mythology with the Gospel in their sermons. Moreover, I would be surprised that any minister would heap pagan mythology on his congregation week after week. But since this site is not a church and the powers that be are not ministers as such, I'm not surprised to see the swing toward the pagan mythology that's so frequently dished out here. You could say, "Only at CM!" happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 10 2014, 1:32 PM 

Most sermons ARE myths and they probably MIX it by reading verse 3d from the LOGOS.

The LOGOS outlaws
Personal experiences, jokes, illustrations,singing, playing, acting, dancing (gyrating) or LECTURING their feeders about morality.

If they do not SPEAK that which is written says Christ in Isaiah 8 THEIR IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.

In Isaiah 58 the Spirit OF Christ outlawed seeking your own pleasure or SPEAKING YOUR OWN WORDS. This is His way to show us how to RESTORE THE OLD PATHS.

You won't be able to comprehend:

[linked image]



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 10 2014, 1:21 PM 

Myth simply means a story you make up: all sermons in the progressive churches which never open the text and teach that which is written. A myth is a poem Fanny Crosby, Twila Paris or singing fella creature wrote. If it has ANY repeating context that is called a LADED BURDEN and the intent is to disconnect you from reality: I am watching NatGeo "The Ultimate Viper" which as SERPO in the garden of Eden includes a "winding song."

A Myth is the opposite of LOGOS or written history of the past. In civil pre post literate societies poets or philosophers (doctors of the law who take away the key to knowledge sayd Jesus) were FORBIDDEN to never ever put what Christ calls the Lying Pen of the Scribes to writing a real message sent by a Presbyter-Kerusso or herald from one party to another or to ever publish anything they call true history

Therefore young men who are not olders or APT to teach violate the direct command to be the pastor-teachers limited only to that which has been taught or "that which has been written" are forced to hire MYTHLOGIAS or MYTH SPEAKERS who speak beyond the text.

Since the direct command is to use "that which is written for our learning" even if you use simple singing, The BLUE book or the GOLD book is almost 100% MYTHS.

Even when giving to the destitute, Paul said "this is not a command": when the preacher or elder gets up in the morning and says that the fleecees are commanded to "lay by in store" at their feet, that is called a MYTH. Songs or Myths were 2 or three removes from the facts we call that a LIE.

The recorded history as direct command and approved example and historic understanding is that the people ASSSEMBLE once a week to read and mutually CONFESS by being a School of the Word. That began in the wilderness and never changed. If you are infected with STAFF then you are obligated to keep them busy all week: that is why it is a MYTH to bring people back on their REST DAY or mid week or several other days to make certain you spend your time and money wisely. That is a MYTH because it is not LOGOS or Recorded History.

To repeat: almost every "act" and "ministry" and "staff" you use to PERFORM church for people in the morning will be based on MYTHS.

The Bible is FILLED with myths: the task of the Breathed-On Prophets was to DEBUNK the myths of the Civil-Military-Clergy complex. If Jesus said that "all that came before me were thieves and robbers" and called the Scribes and Pharisee, hypocrites we need to be wise enough to grasp that a Hypocrite or MYTHOLOGIA is a self-speaker for hire, singer or instrument player. (Ezekiel 33)

This is such a mortally dangerous fact that anything beyond reading the text in a systematic way and discussing it is a MYTH including a lie so that teachers are especially warned.

Another myth of the American Guild of organists is that they are INSPIRED. That's why they cannot connect their brains to recorded history nor do they need to.


 
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^Sarge^
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Perhaps Fanny Was Right

May 10 2014, 4:24 PM 



1 Timothy 4

New International Version (NIV)

6 If you point these things out to the brothers and sisters,[a] you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. 7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8 For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. 9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.


************************************

You are a stubborn old man. happy.gif Have a good day.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Perhaps Fanny Was Right

May 10 2014, 5:13 PM 

You've got it: I will never give up althought I might give out. To prove that I am brilliant:

Tomorrow is my wife's 80th birthday, our 57th anniversary and mother's day. I don't know what I will do if she can no longer mow the lawn and pull all of the weeds!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 10 2014, 9:25 PM 

This is an excellent definition: "Myth simply means a story you make up: all sermons in the progressive churches which never open the text and teach that which is written.

"A MYTH is the opposite of LOGOS or written history of the past."


It is somewhat incomprehensible to me that there are those who are not yet convinced that CM did not author the documented historical pagan activities:

(1) already revealed in the Scripture,
(2) historically recorded for our learning, and
(3) exposed in this forum
.

To my knowledge, Ken has not originated a myth of his own and published here. Ken, are you hiding something from us?

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.205.198

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 10 2014, 9:48 PM 

Ken need not create new myths of his own to be obsessed with myths as he is. He can just keep expounding endlessly about classical myths, gods and goddesses (especially about the god Pan), and throw in some Scripture for good measure.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 10 2014, 10:57 PM 

Bill,

(1) Please check to see if "pagan mythology" course online is offered by the following institutions -- all by itself without any connection to the Holy Scripture -- then, you may want to register for the course if you're interested:

---- University of Phoenix
---- DeVry University Online
---- Roger Travis at University of Connecticut
---- Patricia Salzman at Montclair State University
---- University of Waterloo
---- Medieval Latin Online (University of Oklahoma)
---- ... and many others

(2) Here at CM, there is that keen awareness that the Holy Scripture speaks of idolatry [including musical idolatry], and you should know by now statistically the number of times the Bible refers to the words: idol, idols, idolatry, fables, tales, graven images, gods, goddess, etc.

We do not question the number of times God says: "Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God" (Lev. 26:1).

(3) You have already answered your own question by saying: "The ministers I know do not make it a habit of mixing pagan mythology with the Gospel in their sermons."

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 10 2014, 11:05 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.244.91

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 11 2014, 1:34 AM 

Donnie, it seems that Ken is greatly preoccupied with the god Pan. Funny, the only kind of "pan" I find in the KJV Scriptures is a container for baking or frying food. In fact, the KJV mentions "pan" only seven times, all in the Old Testament. No god Pan is found in the Scriptures. Even though generic references to pagan deities are found hundreds of times in the Bible, specific pagan deities are mentioned by name only about 34 times. Now since Ken has convinced himself that exhaustive references to pagan mythology will make us understand and appreciate the Scriptures better, you'd think that Ken would focus more on those pagan deities that the Bible specifically mentions by name, rather than on Pan, who is not even mentioned once. We don't want to get away from the Scriptures now, do we?

wink.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 10 2014, 9:52 PM 

Donnie, We need to look closer at many texts which defines Cain as OF that wicked one because Eve was wholly seduced says Paul as a young bride has two so that they two became three. The constant dribble and drizzle has the same meaning as music derived from music: to try to neutralize Biblical and historic facts. Since mr Hood used by Madison wanting to see some raising from the dead, I believe that it is true that people can survive their autopsy.

Jesus does not even pray for the WORLD and He said that the LITTLE FLOCK was called OUT of the World.

Those OF the World try to be everything to the world and the world loves and honors them with money and fame. Those who SPEAK the word without modification as Jesus spoke only what He heard from the father will be DESPISED AND REJECTED of the world: hated and even murdered as the Jewish clergy murdered the Prophets.

It is a Biblical and "mythological" fact that the DEVIL is the only source of religious rhetoricians, singers and instrument players: the Greeks knew and their record is not MYTH or a fairy tales that Abaddon or Apollyon is the unleashed leader of the Muses or Locusts for those with a need to know. The Latin SPIRITUS is primarily the spirit OF Abaddon-Apollyon.

When Jesus fed Judas the SOP the devil came into him and he self-destructed. SOP and PSALLO have the same root meaning. Psallo was dredged up in the First Great Affliction imposed more than a hundred years ago and Psallo was the MARK of the Second Great Affliction by "enemies of your own house" or assembly.

In Revelation 18 when the prophecy is fulfilled about the invasion and ejection of the speakers, singers and Instrument players as sorcerers we have people say that "a" spirit TOLD them that God commanded them to impose performance music.

And you post the Biblical and Historic facts which calls them vipers and liars.

Their KNEE JERK is to accuse YOU of being satanic and sowers of discord.

Now, those with A holy spirit understand that as delusional but I believe that they believe their own lie. That is God's Purpose Driven purpose when people TAMPER with the word.

I see this as of BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS and gives us reason to rejoice although their literal violence by lying to God and about God to STEAL your property means that things will get more and more dangerous both from a Civil and religious sense.

We need more wisdom





    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 172.243.203.84 on May 10, 2014 9:58 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 10 2014, 11:29 PM 

Jesus said that the mysteries had been hidden in PARABLES from the foundation of the world: He continued to speak in parables because the Jewish clergy had no need to know the truth. Isaiah 48 says that they would CLAIM that the prophecies were really THEIR idea. A parable is not a lie but a superior form of speech. Notice that when John said that the WORD became flesh it comes across that JESUS became the Word.

Alexander Hislop who wrote some good material on instrumental music investigated the ancient writings and said:

http://www.piney.com/His33.html

Now, Adam can be proved to be the original of Pan, who was also called Inuus, which is just another pronunciation of Anosh without the article, which, in our translation of Genesis 5:7, is made Enos.

A more human form of Oannes: the fish on top can be seen on the Pope's head dress.

[linked image]

This name, as universally admitted, is the generic name for man after the Fall, as weak and diseased. The o in Enos is what is called the vau, which sometimes is pronounced o, sometimes u, and sometimes v or w. A legitimate pronunciation of Enos, therefore, is just Enus or Enws, the same in sound as Inuus, the Ancient Roman name of Pan. The name Pan itself signifies "He who turned aside." As the Hebrew word for "uprightness" signifies "walking straight in the way," so every deviation from the straight line of duty was Sin; Hata, the word for sin, signifying generically "to go aside from the straight line."

Pan, it is admitted, was the Head of the Satyrs--that is, "the first of the Hidden Ones," for Satyr and Satur (Saturn 666), "the Hidden One," are evidently just the same word; and Adam was the first of mankind that hid himself.

[linked image]
[linked image]

Pan is said to have loved a nymph called Pitho, or, as it is given in another form, Pitys (SMITH, "Pan"); and what is Pitho or Pitys but just the name of the beguiling woman,

who, having been beguiled herself, acted the part of a beguiler of her husband,

and induced him to take the step, in consequence of which he earned the name Pan, "The man that turned aside." Pitho or Pitys evidently come from Peth or Pet, "to beguile," from which verb also the famous serpent Python derived its name.
This conclusion in regard to the personal identity of Pan and Pitho is greatly confirmed by the titles given to the wife of Faunus. Faunus, says Smith, is "merely another name for Pan." *

* In Chaldee the same letter that is pronounced P is also pronounced Ph, that is F, therefore Pan is just Faun.

Now, the wife of Faunus was called Oma, Fauna, and Fatua, which names plainly mean

"The mother that turned aside, being beguiled."
This beguiled mother is also called indifferently "the sister, wife, or daughter" of her husband;
and how this agrees with the relations of Eve to Adam, the reader does not need to be told.

Now, a title of Pan was Capricornus, or "The goat-horned" (DYMOCK, "Pan"), and the origin of this title must be traced to what took place when our first parent became the Head of the Satyrs--the "first of the Hidden ones." He fled to hide himself; and Berkha, "a fugitive," signifies also "a he-goat." Hence the origin of the epithet Capricornus, or "goat-horned," as applied to Pan.

But as Capricornus in the sphere is generally represented as the "Goat-fish," if Capricornus represents Pan, or Adam, or Oannes, that shows that it must be Adam, after, through virtue of the metempsychosis, he had passed through the waters of the deluge: the goat, as the symbol of Pan, representing Adam, the first father of mankind, combined with the fish, the symbol of Noah, the second father of the human race; of both whom Nimrod, as at once Kronos, "the father of the gods," and Souro, "the seed," was a new incarnation. Among the idols of Babylon, as represented in KITTO'S Illust. Commentary, we find a representation of this very Capricornus, or goat-horned fish; and Berosus tells us that the well known representations of Pan, of which Capricornus is a modification, were found in Babylon in the most ancient times. A great deal more of evidence might be adduced on this subject; but I submit to the reader if the above statement does not sufficiently account for the origin of the remarkable figure in the Zodiac, "The goat-horned fish.


If that is what they BELIEVED and the religion they PRACTICED that is not a MYTH but a historical fact.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Is Pagan Mythology Always a Timeless Subject for Sermons?

May 11 2014, 12:42 PM 

The Pan Cult in a Church near you. The Pipe Organ began as a Pan Pipe. People who live among pig farms like the smell. I thought that Seattle had open sewers: the natives called it the sweet smell of money--paper mills. ACappella as a steal word from "a cappella" don't want you to know that the cappella was a SHE-goat or male imitators. She/he was a scapegoat.

http://www.theoi.com/Cult/PanCult.html

http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Pan.html

http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Panes.html



 
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There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

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Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

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120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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