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Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

May 24 2014 at 4:13 PM
Ken Sublett  (Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 172.243.203.84

Pure Religion insists on IMPURE worship.

http://www.piney.com/Pure.Religion.and.Defiled.Worship.html

When we SPEAK we are commanded to speak the ORACLES OF GOD: the Word only. However, when we serve (on our own) we are to use the talent we have. That defines the two arenas of the believer's life.

The Church or Assembly in all of its Biblical descriptions met once a week: that was enough if you are a Christian group and listen to and learn the Word of God (only). History notes that people learned a "lection" or portion of Scripture by SPEAKING it and MEDITATING in the heart. The people went back to their regular lives and the plowman or the housewife could SPEAK TO THEMSELVES a whole Psalm (for learning) or what Jesus COMMANDED to be taught. The well known scholar and publisher George DeHoff said that he came home from school, changed into his work clothes, went out to plow and SANG his lesson all day. What will your disciples take home with them?

In the paganism of Spiritual Formation including Lectio Divina from the Mother church you are to read JUST ENOUGH of the Bible to get that magic word. Then you are to enter into centering prayer (witchcraft) and a spirit person will give you the TRUE message from God. However, lectio was used of the LECTIONS or the Portions of Scripture which were used as a teaching platform. Divina contrary to being sorcery is the DIVINE WORD so that the Word is PREACHED by being READ and what God wants you to know comes only through His gift of the "organs" of light and sound.

James limited PURE RELIGION to that arena where we served beyond the 'token' ministry of an institution. By definition, there must be and IMPURE RELIGION. IMPURE is what is called WORSHIP SERVICES where the LAWS of Rhetoric, singing, playing or acting are USED: this is the only meaning of LEGALISM. The Assembly is where the communication path is FROM God TO the disciples: this is the Bible's definition of Worship. If you get angry when RELIGION is defined then too bad.

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This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 172.243.203.84 on Jun 3, 2014 9:28 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Pure Religion and Defiled Worship Part B

May 25 2014, 5:11 PM 

You have to understand the warning of Jesus when you try to post WHAT IS FACT which often conflicts with WHAT I PLAN TO DO. That's fine: I get my "extreme discipleship" done from my computer without being collectivized into a cult to make me a disciple of the discipler who can't read the whole context. And do not get my mind scrambled with "sanging."

Pure Religion is what we do with the talent God has given us: that is not related to contributing my token to a church group usually operated by non-clergy who work themselves to death.

The command for IF WE SPEAK then the inclusive-exclusive RESOURCE is the Word of God. You have 168 hours a week and you and gather to sing, play, clap and as recorded history notes abuse your emotional health and shut down your spiritual or rational MIND required to hear the LOGOS which is the RATIONAL DISCOURSE OF GOD. Logos is never a people.

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This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 172.243.203.84 on May 25, 2014 10:00 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Pure Religion and Defiled worship Part C

May 28 2014, 9:48 PM 

We have noted that the Word or LOGOS is God's Regulative Principle: it includes ONLY speaking that which is written. It excludes rhetoric or preachers's introductions, personal (invented) stories to attract attention to himself, poetry, singing, playing instruments, acting, dancing which is demanded of MAKING MUSIC: moving the voices together was to get the bodies moving together. In all of the excluded ACTS the person is LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE. If you have a "praise team" the intention, like the Pharisees, is to silence the voice of Jesus and to force everyone to "worship" or give attention to the ACTORS.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Fleecing the LAMBS to feed the GOATS

June 3 2014, 9:39 PM 

As God BREATHED and Jesus SPOKE the Word without measure most often means WITHOUT METER. God knew that men set their lies to melodies and even there was no tuneful singing. So, He BROKE the knee caps of the men following the Judas Patternism.

In the same way Jesus PAID it all including the temple tax because children of a king do not pay religious taxes. He protected Believers by telling us NOT to pay for the Water of the Word. He denounced rhetoricians, singers and instrument players as scribes and pharisees. He commanded that the Word be PREACHED by being READ for Comfort and Doctrine.

A School of Christ has NO PROGRAMS requiring taking PRIVATE money and putting it into the COLLECTIVE: Community church defined by Rubel Shelly defines COMMUNE.

The only example is a gift which Corinth VOLUNTEERED to send to those STARVING to death and Paul said THIS IS NOT A COMMANDMENT.

SO, the MARK of a Church or School of Christ gets in out of the rain by GIFTS and a LAW destroys the GIFT principle.

If you are passing the plate and telling them about the LAW OF GIVING you are lying primarily because YOU want other people's money so that YOU can call in the Purpose Driven Cult STAFF so that you can PRETEND WORK all week and make the simpletons think you are an EVANGELISTS: something like a "located traveling salesman" with no requirement to make sales.

Here is what all recorded history calls DEFILED RELIGION:

Lenski, Commentary

"Each member is to deposit WITH HIMSELF each Sunday the amount of his gift for that week and preserve it as a store or treasure. The participle completes the idea of the main verb: 'let him lay by by treasuring up'

"...Each member is to keep the growing amount 'BY HIM,' IN HIS OWN HOME and is NOT to deposit it with the church at once. The probable reason for this advice is the fact that at this early date the churches supervised by Paul were not yet organized to the extent of having official treasurers..."


Albert Barnes

"Let him lay up AT HOME, treasuring up as he has been prospered. The Greek phrase, 'by himself,' means, probably, the same as at home. Let him set it apart; let him designate a certain portion; let him do this by himself, when he is at home, when he can calmly look at the evidence of his prosperity."

Foy E. Wallace a conservative preacher

"Money is not sacramental and giving is not a sacrament to be 'instituted' alongside the Lord's Supper as 'a part of the worship.' It was not so instituted in the New Testament and had no such place in any New Testament church. It simply belongs to the duty of liberality, performed daily as a temporary practice of the first church at Jerusalem, in Acts 2 and Acts 4:37--and it was later ordered by Paul in Galatian and Corinthian churches for convenience and dispatch, as a ready means to an end...(it does not) mean that giving is an institution of worship beside the Lord's Supper for which thanks should be offered." (Wallace, The Gospel for Today, p. 554).

 
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Anonymous
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162.229.28.209

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 4 2014, 7:58 AM 

You seem to get the hives when you talk about "SANGING."

Ken, You said:
"And do not get my mind scrambled with "sanging." "

Can you readily admit that you have never sung a capella in any worship service?

Straight yes or no would be sufficient (devoid of fleecing, pan goat visitation, various forms of direct slander, usual slanderous diatribe, etc., etc.)

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.62.191

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 4 2014, 11:37 AM 

We've already established that singing hymns in the assembly to praise God is not sinful. So why do some folks find congregational hymn-singing so objectionable, or as they say, "sanging"?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 4 2014, 3:53 PM 

Because the theologians say that God COMMANDED CONGREGATIONAL SINGING. And they take the liberties to say that the command is to

Sing congregationally that which NOT WRITTEN and that says MELODY but it really commands HARMONY with four different groups singing four different sets of words at four different times to four different tunes. And it doesn't matter what we SANG because there is a LAW OF SANGING.

And the people who rise to the next level of incompetency say, HAY it says make melody so it Paul REALLY said if Paul was as smart as we that Paul commanded

SINGING to yourselves in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs
SINGING and making melody ON A HARP to the admiring audience.

It may not be a sin not to be able to read black text on white paper: Paul says that is a MARK or SIGN that you have not been converted to CHRIST Who commanded you to teach what HE commanded to be taught.

A disciple never measures himself by himself but asks: What does the text mean even if I have to get an honest job and repent of being a prostitute selling my own body and persona speaking MY OWN silly rhetoric, singing, playing instruments, acting, dancing, shouting, clapping, hugging and kissing.

You are wasting your time treating God with contempt by saying that THERE AIN'T NO LAW again' it. If there is no command, example or remote inference of God calling the godly people out of their REST for congregational singing with or without instruments you might wonder why it is such a popular thing to boast about being lawless or SELF-willed. If you say that "I got the liberty" knowing that you are intentionally offending tens of thousands then it is not a crown God has predestined for you but a MILLSTONE.

Just do what you gonna do but quit lying about the Word.

 
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Sarge
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108.230.196.85

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 4 2014, 5:31 PM 


Ken, thanks for being honest. I've suspected for a long time that you did not condone vocal tuneful CONGREGATIONAL SINGING. We all have opinions and we need to be more tolerant and respectful of each other. happy.gif

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 4 2014, 8:25 PM 

No, we need to be respectful of the Word of God and probably the majority of people who suffer from Ahedonia and do not hear the praise singing as helpful and indeed probably hinders the church which is devoted to be A School (only) of the Word (only).

People who wrote on clay tablets knew that you could intentionally hurt people with the "singing" they called crying or wailing and we just get used to rocks in our shoes. The powerful effect of brass called Bell Metal gave people a powerful weapon to knock the superstitious out of their senses long enough to steal their cows.

"Show respect" or tolerate may be the language of violence like the "just show them love." Jesus tossed the musical minstrels out using a word meaning "like dung." Even the very perverse Crooked Race of the male symposium were advanced enough that they always told the singers, flute-girls or harp-girls (rarely a boy) to "go play by your selves" if they had anything of importance to DIALOG. Since Paul DIALOGED until Midnight and did not preach in sermonizing or moralizing, I wonder why there is never a few singers present in a single recorded assembly. Maybe they had RESPECT for the Word of Christ in the Prophets and Apostles as the ONLY educational resource for an EDUCATIONAL ASSEMBLY.

Most people are not aroused to what instrumental churches do or not: any disciple has too much to do. It is only when men lie, cheat and steal confessing that they are going to turn your church into a "theater for holy entertainment." Without exception they begin by saying GOD COMMANDED CONGREGATIONAL SINGING. Which dribbles to "singing Twila Paris" which dribbles to Psallo COMMANDS us to impose instruments on you.

I submit that a Disciple of Christ or a collection of 100 men stranded on an island would never, in the name of holy testesterone, ever say, FELLAS let us sing and clap and gyrate. Even the "new style praise books" in conservative churches is impulsed by the female side of the rulership.

I assure you that your tribe has only RACA words for people who will not impose or at least confirm that it's its okey dokey to lie about the "musical thing."

HOW TO PROFANE OR POLLUTE GOD'S REST DAY: this is also the Halal praise word from which we get the word LUCIFER. Please notice that ALL instrumental terms are connected with bad people. Then and now musical performance has little history as entertainment but it is connected with violence and religious exorcism. John Mark Hicks says that God FEASTS with us while be burn the fat and JUBILATE: that is the LU pattern of making the Lord's Supper into a spectacle of disrespect.

This is the word defining "Lucifer cast as profane" out of heaven and into the garden of Eden with his/her wind, string and percussion instruments. The Spirit of Christ calls him a "singing and harp-playing prostitute." The Jubilee by Shelly probably began a radical change of quiet, reverent congregational singing into a PSEUDO instrumental "vocal band." A local professor type love to make the drum beat in the gitty up go singing. If your Praise Team sounds like musical instruments God wants you to know that you have profaned or polluted the Name of the Lord by claiming to INVOLVE him in your lack of reverence. H2490 by Thayer

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This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 172.243.203.84 on Jun 4, 2014 8:50 PM


 
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Bill
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74.240.211.179

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 4 2014, 6:49 PM 

Once again, it has been established that congregational hymn-singing is not sinful. Therefore a person's persistent objections to such singing arise from his personal biases, not from anything written in the Scriptures.

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 4 2014, 8:10 PM 

No, we have not concluded any such thing: we have concluded that there is no "musical" content commanded or practiced for the synagogue-ekklesia in the entire Bible. In fact, the Holy Convocation for the REST day prohibits vocal or instrumental rejoicing or speaking out of your own head.

You have to conclude that it is NOT prohibited: singing as an ACT was first introduced in the year 373 so that the bishop's own Bible Stories could be sung in that NEVER TUNEFUL sense. This sowed massive discord. In the words of John Calvin these things have not "statute of limitations."

Just keep speaking out of your head. More below for the readers.

 
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Bill
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74.179.244.150

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 4 2014, 8:46 PM 

Ken, it seems that you're in a private world of your own. There's only your personal bias that congregational singing is neither proper nor right. If the New Testament doesn't command such singing, it certainly doesn't condemn it either. Only you condemn it.

Enough said.



 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 4 2014, 8:58 PM 

I didn't say it wasn't proper or right: I said that there is no command, example or remote inference of ANY musical content to the assemblies called by God's authority as Schools of the Word. You have to speak for yourself because you THINK along with close to 100% of the latest spawn of preachers that God COMMANDED singing whatever you want to SANG as an ACT of worship. G.C. Brewer said IT IS A LAW and if you do not do it you sin. I have heard that applied to me personally even when I had used up all of my vocal cords.

Enough personal opinion said but you will keep saying from self. Here is a population clock: watch it for a spell

http://populationinstitute.org/resources/reports/reportcard/

Because Catholics, Jews and Muslims do not see congregational singing like most protestants, I would say that I fit with the majority.

If you discount the habit attenders, the let's tolerate this attenders, what has evolved is a small percentate of tye 7,270,845,733 which has grown by 822 while I was type this and the singy-clappies are motivated by WE GONNA SAVE MORE SOULS.

I would say that the world sees protestant "worship liturgy" as, as it is, a product of the wild frontier, voodoo and snake handlers. Facts SUPPORT that statement.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 172.243.203.84 on Jun 4, 2014 9:07 PM


 
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Bill
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74.179.62.140

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 4 2014, 9:34 PM 

If you didn't say congregational singing isn't proper or right, you certainly have posted enough negative messages about it that leave no other impression. And since the New Testament neither commands nor condemns it, then what, exactly, is your beef about congregational singing? You've waged a long, bitter, and futile war with vocal music in the assembly and congregational singing.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

When Congregational Singing Becomes Perverted

June 4 2014, 11:25 PM 

Bill,

Congregational singing by definition is not sinful; neither is singing by an individual Christian.

Singing itself is not a command, although it is allowed. There are only a few references to singing in the New Testament -- they do not indicate that singing is a command. Notice:

--- I WILL confess ... and [WILL] sing unto thy name. (Rom. 15:9)
--- I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. (I Cor. 4:15)
--- ... singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord (Eph. 5:19)
--- ... singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. (Col. 3:16)
--- ... will I sing praise unto thee (Heb. 2:12)
--- ... let him sing psalms (Jas. 5:13)

Sounds optional or allowable to me -- either "will sing" OR "singing." If it is a command or imperative, it will say: "You [must] sing."

What's negative about understanding the history of congregational singing or the history of music in the church? As I have expressed before, you can do your own research concerning "music in the church." Then, inform us.

Here's the congregational singing that's DEVIANT: it's when the Praise Team performs musical worship for the congregation or when the song perverts the word of Christ.

 
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Bill
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74.179.14.217

Re: When Congregational Singing Becomes Perverted

June 4 2014, 11:58 PM 

I was addressing Ken. Yes, we know that the praise teams perform vocal music that is really not suitable for the assembly. Yes, we know that congregational singing that is not perverted and that praises God is not sinful. I'm just trying to figure out why Ken leaves the clear impression that he opposes ANY AND ALL vocal music in the assembly. Since the New Testament neither commands nor condemns it, then what is Ken's problem?


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: When Congregational Singing Becomes Perverted

June 5 2014, 1:04 AM 

Yes, you were addressing Ken -- I knew that. But I'm a poster, too, I think.

No one here is opposed to "ANY AND ALL" vocal music. You ... misunderstanding the very detailed historical info regarding "music in the church"? Very possibly!!!

Audible singing is vocal. It would really be something if "musical worship" were led by a female opera singer with a microphone, wouldn't it?

Vocal music certainly delivers some kind of a message. When the message in vocal music is devoid of "the word of Christ" that is to "dwell in us richly," would you love it or would you oppose it?

What about when the message is lost in the extraordinary musical composition of the (oh -- the extremely complex but beautifully "tuneful") song?



 
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Bill
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74.179.14.160

Re: When Congregational Singing Becomes Perverted

June 5 2014, 1:54 PM 

Donnie, you stated that "no one here is opposed to any and all vocal music" in the assembly. That would be good if it were true, but I'm really not sure that Ken fully agrees with you. Ken has persistently condemned something, and his condemnation has left at least Dave, Sarge, and me (and possibly many other readers) with the distinct impression that Ken opposes ALL vocal music in the assembly.

We should oppose any vocal music that showcases the performers and that does not glorify God. Ken's opposition, however, seems to go beyond that.

If it is possible, perhaps Ken could put aside his references to goats, mythology, and the starry host for one moment, take a stand, and concisely tell us either, "Yes, I oppose all vocal music in the assembly" OR "No, I don't oppose vocal music in the assembly as long as it glorifies God," then (maybe?) we could put the matter to rest. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: When Congregational Singing Becomes Perverted

June 5 2014, 2:25 PM 

Ken doesn't DO preferences: He quotes the Bible and has stopped long long ago from trying to use the WORD to make up preferences. If you obey the direct command by Christ from the wildernes onward you can PREACH the WORD by READING the word for Comfort and Doctrine. Then everyone can PREFERENCE for the other 167 hours during the week. We can read and mutually confess "that which is written for our learning" in the parking lot and skip the tithes and offerings.

YOU can do what U gotta do and Ken will be at home protecting his voice and ears. We get to answer one by one and not by flocks of goats.

If you NEED Bible authority then you don't get preferences. My 95.5 year old mother thought that SANGING was the greatest thing in the world. She was 'titled.

If you would like to think about the Word and stop worrying about ken he would be eternally grateful and can back off the meds!




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 172.243.203.84 on Jun 5, 2014 2:31 PM


 
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Bill
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74.179.242.20

Re: When Congregational Singing Becomes Perverted

June 5 2014, 2:54 PM 

Since Ken says that he "quotes the Bible" and since the Bible says nothing that condemns all vocal music in the assembly, then Ken should rejoice that has no basis with which to condemn all vocal music (just in case he was leaning in that direction). happy.gif

 
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