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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 5 2014, 1:04 PM 

It is undisputed that many musicians who are able to confuse their gender become popular. The "wannabe" is attested by the Spirit of Christ who identified the KING of Tyre with Lucifer "the singing and harp-playing prostitute." We have had posters totally wiped out by the musical performance at place like the Tulsa Workshop not in the hands of the NACC agents. A post notes:

"A more recent, "second meaning of Acappella has emerged". The Contemporary Christian group Acappella is the first formed by prolific songwriter Keith Lancaster. In the early 1990's he added Acappella Vocal Band (now mostly known as AVB) and "Acappella: The Series" which uses studio singers (plus LOTS of electronic help) to perform songs around specific themes. All of these efforts are now combined in The Acappella Company. The good news is they have sold millions of recordings and have contributed greatly to the awareness of a cappella. The bad news is they have popularized a spelling variation, and through the heavy use of electronically manipulated voice (which can sound like any other synthesized instrument) have chipped away at the idea of singing without instruments.

Why "Primarily" A Cappella?

Singing without instruments comes in many shapes and sizes. One of the attractions for artists is the nearly unlimited pallet the voice provides. The same singer can sound sultry and sexy one minute, cold and machine-like the next, then change to a trumpet, and morph again to a soft harmonic background "ooooh."

In short, a cappella enables "out of the box" music - art that defies singular categorization.

It's not surprising, then, that the artists who create breathtaking, out of the box a cappella performances sometimes want to add instruments. The vocal pallet does have some limitations, after all. We endorse artistic creativity, and so we include recordings that include accompanied songs along with a cappella performances


THIS IS OF BIBLICAL PORTION: Capella was the STAR of Babylon and probably the Star of David.

Musaeus relates that Jupiter, when fighting against the Titans, used the hide of this goat as a shield, from which circumstance he is called by the poets shield-bearer.79 Thus, whatever was done in concealing the boy, that also is done by way of representation in the sacred rites. Moreover, the mystery of his mother also contains the same story which Ovid sets forth in the Fasti:-

"Now the lofty Ida resounds with tinklings, that the boy may cry in safety with infant mouth. Some strike their shields with stakes, some beat their empty helmets. This is the employment of the Curetes, this of the Corybantes.

The matter was concealed, and imitations of the ancient deed remain; the attendant goddesses shake instruments of brass, and hoarse hides. Instead of helmets they strike cymbals, and drums instead of shields; the flute gives Phrygian strains, as it gave before."




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 172.243.203.84 on Jun 5, 2014 1:09 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 5 2014, 9:04 PM 

There I go again: I have to repent. No, I have never sang ACappella. We have noted that Keith and a few others INVENTED that term and we have posted a definition.

Nor have I ever sung "a capella". Caper or capella is the Sistine Chapel and I have noted that the Pope bumped his FALSETTO team in favor of a castrated team of French Opra singers. Until about 1911 it was still unlawful to use the organ in the only official Mass in the Sistine.

The modern praise singers are vocally emasculated and It has been reported that the lose their manly voice. I don't think that gender certified people can do praise singing: the masses know by instinct and show up next appointed hour as "empty pews."

ACappella is a word used to HIDE the history of the castrated team of men singing ORGANUM or after the pipe organ and NOT after the chapel. They banditos have used the ACappella term to confuse people who engage in congregational singing. Congregational singing WITHOUT instruments are not "a cappella" in the original sense.

I am sorry to hear that you are an ACappella Fella!

[linked image]


 
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Anonymous
(no login)
162.229.28.209

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 5 2014, 10:41 PM 

Ken. you have SANG unaccompanied non-instrumental congregational singing before, and whether or not you agree with the term being called ACapella, a cappela, and that STILL makes you a hypocrite.

Repent or not, the only thing worse than a hypocrite is one who mocks God and His Word.

ull Definition of A CAPPELLA
: without instrumental accompaniment

Your chapel or choir definition is not what the word currently means within the church of Christ realm....but you knew that already. The chapel/choir definition probably comes from the equally vile rubbish that you have concocted from your mind and man's history. That is why you need something other than the Word of God to back your theorems. 'Speak that which is written."--> RIGHT!!! Refer back to my thoughts on those who mock the Word of God.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Pure Religion Part A + B + C FLEECING the lambs and DIVERTING the monies

June 5 2014, 11:45 PM 

Dave, please do your own research on the history of "a cappella" ... and let us know soon.

Ken, another post regarding "a [real] hypocrite" may be necessary ... with illustration.

 
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William
(no login)
108.18.181.89

a cappella

June 6 2014, 1:54 AM 


You are making this too hard. From Google:

In referring to singing unaccompanied by instruments, the traditional spelling is the Italian one, a cappella: two words, two Ps, two Ls. The Latin spelling a capella is learned, but in the realm of musical terminology, we usually stick with Italian. The one-word spelling acapella is widely used by Americans, including by some performing groups, but this is generally regarded by musical experts as an error.

"Machines" were placed in the big assembly halls, the main auditorium. The little structure on the side, the "chapel", or the fellowship hall, did not have a machine. Since the main assembly hall was not used for all functions, in fact in some cases most functions may have been in the chapel, there was no instrumental accompaniment. Hence, "like in the chapel", which meant without instrumental music. It still does. Nothing to do with any star or any goat. Remember that often in Italian a "c" may be pronounced like a "ch". Ciao.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.15.135

Re: a cappella

June 6 2014, 9:41 AM 

I guess that's why some folks who fixate on stars and little female goats (capella) vehemently oppose vocal music (a cappella singing) in the assembly...and everything else about the assembly for that matter. They "study" long and hard and eventually convince themselves that virtually everything about Christian worship has a perverted link to pagan mythology and therefore should be avoided.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: a cappella

June 6 2014, 11:11 PM 

Bill, do you remember from the Madison instrumental thread: "It was prerecorded vocal percussion ... played back using a loop pedal"?

And you reacted: "... 'vocal percussion' that realistically mimicked instruments..."

Bill, here's what happens with your narrow understanding or definition of vocal music -- "one size fits all." To you ... the Praise Team that mimics musical instruments ("vocal percussion") to excite and please the crowd is just good vocal music -- after all, it is still "vocal music." Correct? Just a little instrument-mimicking. Just a little.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.15.180

Re: a cappella

June 7 2014, 7:32 AM 

Those who fixate on stars and little she-goats are the ones around here who would like to wipe out all vocal music in the assembly. I only advocate congregational singing that praises God, that does not mimic the sounds of percussive or other instruments, and that does not require a bunch of narcissistic performers on stage.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: a cappella

June 7 2014, 11:53 AM 

"... stars and little she-goats"? We're discussing "music" and/in "worship." Why not learn from documented evidences about that type of worship? Even the Bible mentions it:

"Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon." (Acts 4:43)

Yes, the star Capella, "small goat" or the "Little She-goat": always an important star in the temple worship of the great Egyptian god Ptah.

(Just an added explanation ... since you mentioned it -- and that in itself is your own fixation.)

In regard to your remark: "Those ... who would like to wipe out all vocal music in the assembly" ... I would like to mention to you again that such an expression is of your own making.

Hopefully, all that's out of the way and here's the question:

Do you consider "mimic[king] the sounds of percussive or other instruments" vocal music?





 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.209.161

Re: a cappella

June 7 2014, 1:11 PM 

Good. Since that's all out of the way, then there no longer needs to be any further discussion from anyone here about stars, she-goats, or any other mythology that might confuse a cappella singing (from the Italian, meaning "of the chapel") with capella (from the Latin, meaning "little she-goat"). And by a cappella singing, I mean congregational singing that praises God, singing that does not mimic the sounds of musical instruments, and singing that neither requires nor showcases narcissistic performers on stage.

Surely you understand that by now. Or are you being deliberately obtuse, just like the warden in The Shawshank Redemption? wink.gif

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: a cappella

June 7 2014, 2:23 PM 

"... then there no longer needs to be any further discussion from anyone here about stars, she-goats."

No, sir, that's not your call.

Were you afraid to give a specific answer to a very specific question? All needed was a YES or NO from you.

Well, you still have ample time to answer the question: "Do you consider 'mimic[king] the sounds of percussive or other instruments' vocal music?" Let's not be obtuse, OK?
.
You see, Bill, there are many folks who will disagree with your own [modified] definition of "vocal music" or "congregational singing." You know that Dave Fields, e.g., pro-instrumental music and pro-"Praise Worship Team" performance, is not opposed to "singing that does not mimic the sounds of musical instruments." But that's between you two.


====================

Correction: The last statement should state:

"... is not opposed to 'singing that does [ ] mimic the sounds of musical instruments.'"

=====================


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Jun 7, 2014 10:25 PM


 
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Anonymous
(no login)
162.229.28.209

Re: a cappella

June 7 2014, 6:19 PM 

Donnie, you said of Dave Fields---"You know that Dave Fields, e.g., pro-instrumental music and pro-"Praise Worship Team" performance,...."

I have never seen him support such. Would you show proof that he is "pro" instrumental, meaning that he supports and is involved with worshiping with instruments?

Thank you for your reply.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: a cappella

June 7 2014, 10:36 PM 

Bill, [Correction: s/b Dave Fields]

You've had several discussions regarding IM with Dave before: Dave = pro; Bill = against.

Dave or anyone does not have to be "involved with worshiping with instruments" to accept and support that belief.

(At the time, Dave was serving as an elder of a small non-instrumental congregation in SC. Of late he mentioned in one of the recent threads that he is not [more like "no longer"] an elder. I have just visited this church's website and the "Leadership Team" page is NOW blank. Hmm!!! Anyway, unless you already know it, I can email you the church's web address if you're interested.)

In regard to the Praise Team, he will defend it regardless of where [meaning, even on stage performing] or what "services" it rendered because he considers it "acappella." Mimicking the sounds of musical instruments does not matter because it is still "acappella" to him -- i.e., "vocal music."

Do you see the problem when you use the expression "all vocal music" instead of "vocal music"?


=================================

Correction: The above post was written as though I were responding to Bill's question. "Anonymous" [Dr. Hyde?] is really "Dave Fields" to whom this post is being redirected.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.250.192 on Jun 8, 2014 3:27 AM


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.243.178

Re: a cappella

June 8 2014, 12:36 AM 

Donnie, I didn't write the post to which you are responding; Dave did. Please direct your comments to him.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: a cappella

June 8 2014, 3:43 AM 

Done. Thanks for pointing this out, Bill.)

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
162.229.28.209

Re: a cappella

June 10 2014, 10:11 AM 

Donnie said "Dave or anyone does not have to be "involved with worshiping with instruments" to accept and support that belief.

You are correct.

So show the proof that Dave accepts and supports that belief.

happy.gif

Donnie, your lameness and ineptness in the correct use of Scriptures does not mean Dave supports anything. Does it?

happy.gif

 
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AM
(no login)
174.130.220.90

Re: a cappella

June 12 2014, 10:15 AM 

Rather than ask Donnie to prove what Dave believes, should you not ask Dave to state his beliefs. I know that will be the best way to get his belief that he does not believe in IM in worship. Throughout these postings Dave plays devils advocate to take the opposing position to strength the arguments for A capella which is a benefit to those searching for answers. In the same search of the posts that I find labeled Dave, he does not use scripture--just pointing out an example of lameness. Now Dave could be some Anonymous post, which I will not give him credit.

Come on Dave, please let us in on what you believe about IM in the Lord's church. And please state it with Scripture references.

Thank you!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: a cappella

June 12 2014, 4:24 PM 

Churches of Christ would not be experiencing a great tribulation without the great abominators standing in the holy places CLAIMING to lead you into the presence of God.

Nor, would the tribulation work without those playing DEVIL'S ADVOCATES who didn't play their part so well.

1Pet. 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
1Pet. 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pet. 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christs sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Pet. 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pet. 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other mens matters.
1Pet. 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pet. 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pet. 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: a cappella

June 6 2014, 10:32 PM 

I Googled and found the first paragraph quoted exactly from:

http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/acapella.html

That's fine -- it is differentiating the spelling of the term between Italian and Latin.

But I need help with the second paragraph. The mention of "machines" being placed "in the big assembly halls ... the main auditorium ... the fellowship hall" seems to be an indication of structures in a more modern era instead of the early centuries. Can we put a date on this one? So we can look at it from a historical perspective?

 
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William
(no login)
108.18.181.89

Re: A Cappella

June 7 2014, 12:24 AM 


Check this Wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_cappella#Eastern_Orthodox_Christianity

The term was not known until relatively late, as you have covered somewhere in other threads. Organs and other instruments, I believe you have said, were not common in Catholic services until about the 16th century or even later. The term "a cappella" was not needed, so it did not exist. Yes, it is Italian, not Latin.

I am not sure how many know that we are in no way exclusive in our resistance to the addition of "lifeless machines" in worship. By the way, I live in a Mennonite/Amish area. The Mennonites are going through some of what the restoration folks went through: in order to bring people to Mennonite churches (money) some are adding pianos, choirs, quartets, etc., and particularly those Mennonites who are active in African missions, apparently dominated by young people. I can not give you any good authority or statistics for what I have just said.

You may also find this link interesting:

http://www.biblestudying.net/worship.html

There are some statements made here that I do not exactly agree with, but the overall discussion is similar to some points made on this site from time to time. Namely, that singing, much less music, was not necessarily that big a deal in the early church where study, learning, and prayer dominated.

 
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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

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120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
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Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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