Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Bible Text in "Praise Music"

June 2 2014, 3:57 PM 

"Speaking" essentially means "reciting" in the assembly [as in "Scripture reading" of] biblical text. It makes sense that in the public assembly, it involves teaching and admonishing "one another" -- we are NOT speaking to God nor are we teaching and admonishing God [He would not appreciate that happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif].

Speaking to one another in the assembly "as it is written" will always remain as a constant apostolic directive. We cannot change that. Neither singing means speaking nor is singing a substitute for speaking. We should know the difference.

"ONLY": Your usage of that word would be applicable in conjunction with "speaking that which is written" ONLY -- as opposed to what the Pope or Rick Warren says.

"SINFUL": To my knowledge, no one here has ever indicated that in regard to singing "that which is written" as opposed to unbiblical teachings of contemporary "Christian" artists," the Pope or Rick Warren.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.203.2

Re: Bible Text in "Praise Music"

June 2 2014, 4:41 PM 

Repeatedly emphasizing the word "SPEAKING" in the apostolic directive "SPEAKING to yourselves IN psalms and hymns and spiritual songs" may have originally given some folks the erroneous impression that hymns must only be spoken and not sung. So then it is not sinful to sing hymns that truly praise God, because we can exhort one another to praise Him by singing as well as by speaking. Good. I'm glad we cleared that up.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Bible Text in "Praise Music"

June 2 2014, 4:48 PM 

There may be a difference between VAIN religion which follows the teachings of men and SIN. The Purpose Driven Church is to TEACH and ADMONISH one another with THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING. Maybe you don't sin but you gained nothing from God and His Word.

Saying that God commanded you to do or IMPOSE and SELL to others when God has not commanded you to do that is called DESPISING the Word. In Latin in Jeremiah 23 Christ called that BLASPHEMY. There probably is not a law against blasphemy.

The people in Corinth wanted to sing out of their OWN SPIRIT: Paul said that "your assemblies do more harm than good." The audience has not sinned but they have been engaged in a franchise selling you deep fried styrofoam.

Rather than BEING a sin, the inability to read the whole text for the distilled inspiration (breath) of God proves that one does not have A holy spirit or A good conscience, consciousness or a Co-perception of the Word. It's true: Paul says that God makes people blind and deaf so they cannot HEAR the Word when it is PREACHED by being READ nor can they READ the text. We have noted but no one takes note, most people

SEE "Speaking one to another in" in the Biblical Text as
"Listen to a few SING that which is NOT written" or even "SINGING psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." Now, tell me that this is not a supernatural sign marking people who are professioned to keep the voice of God silent.

Eph. 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, BUT understanding what the WILL of the Lord is.
Col. 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Eph. 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; BUT be filled with the Spirit;
Col. 3:16 Let the WORD of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom;

Eph. 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Col. 3:16 TEACHING and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Eph. 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Col. 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him

Eph. 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Col. 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

Godly people WILL FIND OUT and should never depend on what is sold in the shambles. Those who are SELLERS as opposed to TEACHERS have convinced just about everyone that these passages are to be violated as long as we SOUND GOOD and force everyone to give attention (worship) to performing MY PART good! Is it a sin to SELL paper shoes for the battlefield? You have to answer now or answer later.




 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.203.2

"Why They Don't Sing on Sunday Anymore"

June 2 2014, 5:14 PM 

Maybe congregational hymn-singing is going out of style. According to the article "Why They Don't Sing on Sunday Anymore," congregants are more likely to watch church performers rather than sing with them.

Link:http://holysoup.com/2014/05/21/why-they-dont-sing-on-sunday-anymore/

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Bible Text in &quot;Praise Music&quot;

June 2 2014, 5:20 PM 

"Speaking" has been well-emphasized because many folks don't even acknowledge or recognize that the word actually exists in the passage. And that historically synagogue worship was not without it.
A scriptural and true, accurate historical perspective should not lead anyone to an "erroneous impression." But that can happen when music, instead of speaking that which is written, dominates one's thinking in letting "the word of Christ dwell in you richly."

It's good to know that you've now been made fully aware of that apostolic directive.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.203.2

Re: Bible Text in &quot;Praise Music&quot;

June 2 2014, 5:40 PM 

Actually, I'm comforted to know that singing hymns in the assembly to praise God, as congregations have done for hundreds of years, is not sinful and never has been sinful. happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Bible Text in &amp;quot;Praise Music&amp;quot;

June 2 2014, 6:24 PM 

Besides being fully aware now of the apostolic directive to SPEAK in order to teach and admonish concerning that which is written, you can also get rid of your confusion of someone here ever indicating that congregational singing is sinful.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Bible Text in &quot;Praise Music&quot;

June 2 2014, 6:42 PM 

I am glad that some people enjoy loud four-part harmony: some people enjoy sticking pins in mice. Actually churchy music has been highly honed to enhance what Scripture and recorded history calls SORCERY. This is not boiling frog's eyes and making you drink it: it is boiling the audience called frogs. The "frog spirits" are called QUACKS.

Pure, single tones can be pleasing: David would have plucked ONE STRING and then matched his voice to that note. Complex harmony may INTEND to cause discomfort which in turn produces endorphins to heal the damage as in a runner's high.

"Even a dog that is barking "continuously" is really producing a drip, drip, type of non-continuous interruptive irritant, because no matter how small the gap of silence between barks, we can hear it, and our physiological system cannot keep adjusting back and forth, from the sound to the silence, in order to define its level and then mask it. The longer it goes on, the greater the irritant, until it becomes tortuous. Loudness has a little, but not much, to do with it. The irritant is there as long as you can hear it.

RELATION OF THIS TO MUSIC

"The continuity or continuousness of notes in a melody is created because the previous notes often have overtones or harmonies that will usually (not always) match the next note or notes in a fairly audible way. Thus we are hearing "more of the same" (or at least partially more of the same) in the succeeding notes, and this ties notes together into a melody or continuum of sounds and/or harmonies.

.....and this ties notes together into a melody or continuum of sounds and/or harmonies.
....."This is also what creates a sense of "key" or tonality in music and melody.

"A-tonal music does not have this property of successive overtone relationships, but in fact deliberately defies this, thus creating a discontinuous series of tones, a-melodic, a-tonal and even a-rhytnmic. The result, based upon the information above about discontinuous sounds, produces an irritant, which only acculturated habit or conditioning can overcome in order for one to aquire a sense of appreciation for it. Most of us do not, or can not, do this. -- Bob Fink


When you use the word ENJOY or PLEASURE you actually violate the direct command of Paul who outlawed SELF-pleasure in Romans 15. Both in Greek and Latin the pleasure word includes slick rhetoric, singing, playing an instrument or acting. In all of these someone is feeding you mental images (idols) which absolutely prevents you from--as they claim--worship or give your attention to God through His Word. Self-Pleasure or Ariskos has the same meainging as hairikos or HERESY. A musical imposer is named a HERETIC or SECTARIAN by the Bible.

No one has ever claimed anything but "pleasure" for any form of music compared to "drinking wine or deep sleep."

So, enjoy on: the majority of people in the world hear NOISE or screeching and screaming. The music term is defined as an "old brain" impulse as a cry of pain or panic. PAUL as the REST Jesus promised means STOP the singing, playing, acting or PANIC. PANIC is derived from PAN and the "panic of the religious rite." When you tell the simple mind of most people that your praise singers are "bringing you into the presence of a god" or "bringing a god into your worship service" the NATURAL impulse is panic. Preachers prey (not pray) on people by claiming that a SPIRIT told them to do something or claim that I AM PREDESTINATED--GOD HAS A CROWN ALREADY MADE AND I CANNOT BE LOST they are whistling in the cemetary because such a claim is the wailing cry of a lost person. However, it has the effect of making the simple minded believe him. Scholars note that the more aristocratic or wealthy people can be fooled easier than bubba the grease monkey.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.179

Re: Bible Text in &amp;amp;quot;Praise Music&amp;amp;quot;

June 2 2014, 7:06 PM 

Oh, I've always known that singing hymns has never been sinful. I was just a bit concerned that, because you repeatedly emphasize "speaking" hymns, some readers might get the odd idea that you believe hymns must only be spoken and not sung. However, since you and I both know there is nothing wrong with singing hymns, I wanted to make sure the readers clearly understood that. happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Sarge
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Bible Text in &amp;amp;quot;Praise Music&amp;amp;quot;

June 2 2014, 8:01 PM 


Donnie you have bailed out Ken many times on the "speak only" issue. I think Ken considers church vocal tuneful singing to be BLASPHEMY. He will endorse speak only or chanting. I suspect we will get a muddy non-relevant response from Ken. JMHO

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.244.154

Re: Bible Text in &amp;amp;quot;Praise Music&amp;amp;quot;

June 3 2014, 12:00 AM 

Sarge, according to Donnie, no one here has ever indicated that congregational singing is sinful. It therefore follows that no one here thinks that church vocal tuneful singing is blasphemy.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Bible Text in "Praise Music"

June 3 2014, 1:56 AM 

No, Sarge, Ken has the knowledge of the truth and recorded history on his side. He needs nobody else to bail him out.

Using the word "only" out of context can be a very risky thing in an argument. (Bill did this earlier.) I have reviewed this thread and found no indication from any post by me or Ken of the word "only" being misplaced.

In essence, grammatically speaking [and Bill should know this], there is a colossal difference between:

(1) "ONLY SPEAKING" (as THE mode of communication)
--------------------vs.-------------------
(2) SPEAKING "that which is written ONLY"

(1) excludes other modes of communication
(2) excludes man-made doctrines and teachings


As far as "blasphemy" is concerned, the reference to that is found in the title of this thread: "BLASPHEMY OF PREDESTINATION."

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.250.192

Re: Bible Text in "Praise Music"

June 3 2014, 2:31 AM 

"Congregational singing" in itself is not sinful; an individual Christian singing "unto thy name" (Romans 15:9; James 5:13) is not sinful.

However, I believe that it is no longer "congregational singing":

(1) When the song is lacking or devoid of the teachings of Christ and His apostles, devoid of that which is written for our learning. [Ken has thoroughly and repeatedly explained all about "that which is written" -- not by David Young, Max Lucado, Rubel Shelly and other change agents in the brotherhood.]

(2) When the "Praise Team" is doing the "congregational singing" for the congregants.

Bill, please read my comments to Sarge on "blasphemy."

In regard to "vocal tuneful singing," I appreciate Ken for sharing with us [that includes you even if you refuse to learn from] his knowledge of the history of music in the church. I think you should appreciate the extensive research already done. But, of course, feel free to do research on your own.

 
 Respond to this message   
Sarge
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Bible Text in "Praise Music"

June 4 2014, 10:35 AM 



[linked image]

[linked image]

Finally we all (Donnie, Ken, B, Sarge) agree on "Congregational vocal tuneful singing".

High Fives!

 
 Respond to this message   
Sarge
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Bible Text in "Praise Music"

June 5 2014, 8:01 PM 


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Bible Text in &quot;Praise Music&quot;

June 5 2014, 8:27 PM 

Here is a link to Ken's reference material.

This is a book by a Catholic Scholar and I recommend it and have linked it dozens of times. This is the research by a Catholic Priest. Unfortunately, you are left with "dangling references" but he does quote from original resources more than from other writers and this is rare because "scholars" have rarely read the originals.

I have remedied this somewhat by linking to the ORIGINAL TEXTS for some of his most important references. This is one of hundreds of resources I have found to affirm absolutely everything I have posted.

I have not collated all of my REAL LINKS to Quasten's book here are papers where I have quoted him. Necessarily, I may use the same quotation (always acknowledged) many times.

http://search.freefind.com/find.html?si=86128867&pid=r&_charset_=UTF-8&bcd=%C3%B7&t=s&query=Quasten


It's true, Sarge, you've caught me: everything I know was known often centuries before I knew it. The only pride of authorship is the Christ-given ability to read BLACK text on WHITE paper. I even remember learning my ABC's in a one room class of 1-3 with a huge Confederate Battle flag hanging on the walls and probably my parents scribbles on the desks and chewing gum under the tops


I am SO ashamed of myself.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 172.243.203.84 on Jun 5, 2014 8:36 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Justice
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Bible Text in &amp;quot;Praise Music&amp;quot;

September 16 2014, 8:08 AM 

You reviewed the book twice in the same day on Amazon. I guess you really like the book. Thanks for coming clean. No need to post this.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: David Young North Boulevard EX church of Christ: BLASPHEMY OF PREDESTINATION

June 1 2014, 9:10 PM 

Disciples come one at a time: being an attender at a church does not mean that it is devoted to TEACHING nor that the massed multitudes are DISCIPLES. My experience is that most people are simply feathers drifting in the wind.

Here is the MARK of an APT elder and in y 83 plus years I have known a tiny few who are recognized because they "are already working in preaching and teaching". The Christ-gifts are APT elders and Ephesians 4 Paul demands that the elders must first CAST OUT the cunning craftsmen or Sophists: rhetoricians, singers, instrument players or actor. Then the ekklesia or synagogue is enable to TEACH THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING. Of all of the assemblies Jesus, Paul or Peter attended there is no mention of singing. Singing was introduced about the year ad 373 so that the unwashed Bishop could sing his own songs: these were telling Bible stories in his own words. I don't do "can or can't" but being a DISCIPLE "what does the Word say."

[linked image]

Since an APT elder has no WILL of his own and Paul said that we should understand the WILL OF THE LORD and then SPEAK the will of the Lord: none of it is metrical and cannot be sung as in Hollywood, Dollywood or the Grand Ole Opry.

Godly people in the Bible never say "it's okey dokey cause we have found a hole where God HAS NO WILL. They only response of a Christian or Disciple is "It is written."




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 172.243.203.84 on Jun 1, 2014 9:13 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: David Young North Boulevard EX church of Christ: BLASPHEMY OF PREDESTINATION

June 2 2014, 9:35 PM 

I have to agree that IT AIN'T NO SIN. I have tried to make this point several times but it won't stick in brains made of swiss cheese.

It is true: saying that SPEAK means SING, using musical praise teams, using musical instruments, clapping, shouting, dancing etc is NOT the sin.

These are the MARKS in sight and sound to Mark for Avoidance people who hate God (predestination) and tell Him to "shut your face, we do not need nor want to hear from you." How do I know that? I got a special revelation by reading BLACK text on WHITE paper! It is such a SIGN that no one can doubt inspiration. Here is what Job said:

Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power? Job 21:7
Their seed is established in their sight with them,
and their offspring before their eyes. Job 21:8
Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them. Job 21:9
Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf. Job 21:10
They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance. Job 21:11
They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ. Job 21:12
They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave. Job 21:13

Therefore they say unto God,
.....Depart from us;
.....for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. Job 21:14

What is the Almighty, that we should serve him?
.....and what profit should we have,
.....if we pray unto him? Job 21:15


So, they do not BECOME wicked by all of the musical juvenile practices. They PRACTICE music AGAINST God because they ARE WICKED. Therefore, it is good that God gives us a SIGN in all of the instrumental passages.

Lo, their good is not in their hand:
.....the counsel of the wicked is far from me. Job 21:16
How oft is the candle of the wicked put out
.....and how oft cometh their destruction upon them!
.....God distributeth sorrows in his anger. Job 21:17
They are as stubble before the wind,
.....and as chaff that the storm carrieth away. Job 21:18


This is the baptism of SPIRIT (wind) and FIRE: none of the people who claim "holy spirit power" can grasp that John marks the VIPER RACE

 
 Respond to this message   
Sarge
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: David Young North Boulevard EX church of Christ: BLASPHEMY OF PREDESTINATION

June 2 2014, 10:05 PM 

Call in Scripture, maybe Ze can interpret for Ken. happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
 
< Previous Page 1 2 3 4 57 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter