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Any news about this new start up church

December 3 2014 at 6:44 PM
Confused   (no login)
from IP address

Anyone know anything about this new start up church from former Madison members? I thought maybe someone would have mentioned in previous threads but can't find any information. Thanks

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Re: Any news about this new start up church

December 4 2014, 12:00 PM 

About 30 cars.

"Wishing Well" format.

Adoption of impressionistic worship.

"We don't know what it is going to look like."

"We don't know what it is going to be called."

It is bound to be successful, according to its proponents, since the baggage of culture is not upon its head.

Interesting, that the issue of authority may have been settled, since it has a "pastor."

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Any news about this new start up church

December 4 2014, 12:48 PM 

That's the pattern


Rejoice: this is working out better than I thought.

1Cor. 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Gal. 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Lectio Divina out of LU is of Biblical Proportion. Of "divina."

Plato Gorg. [513a] and so therefore now,
.....whether it is your duty to make yourself as like as possible to the Athenian people,
.....if you intend to win its affection and have great influence in the city:
see if this is to your advantage and mine, that we may not suffer, my distinguished friend,
.....the fate that they say befalls the creatures
.....who would draw down the moon—the hags of Thessaly;
.....that our choice of this power in the city may not cost us all that we hold most dear.
.....But if you suppose that anyone in the world
.....can transmit to you such an art as will cause you

[513b] to have great power in this state without conforming to its government either for better or for worse, in my opinion you are ill-advised, Callicles; for you must be no mere imitator, but essentially like them, if you mean to achieve any genuine sort of friendship with Demus the Athenian people, ay, and I dare swear, with Demus son of Pyrilampes1 as well. So whoever can render you most like them is the person to make you a statesman in the way that you desire to be a statesman, and a rhetorician;

The musical or any kind of "body worship" is defined in the literature as THE meaning of Lying Wonders. Jesus says that they are OF the world and their task is to try to make as many lambs dumb before the slaughter as possible.

They understand their roles IN the World because Jesus says they are OF the world. The biblical view is that they are a Viper Race or Crooked race and, as the Lucifer figure in the garden of Eden, they are POed that God dares to have a LITTLE FLOCK who are OF truth or OF FAITH. People who will lie, cheat and steal or destroy your property based on SELF WILL would also hurt you if they could get by with it. Don't let the Viper Bite you: The BEAST is A sudden new style of music and satyric drama.

They are in a panic because they know that their time (KAIROS) is about up. Never weep for anyone who would follow the multitude.

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Re: Any news about this new start up church

December 4 2014, 3:20 PM 

All the "Gold in Fort Knox" lends no credibility to this story. JMHO.

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Re: Any news about this new start up church

December 5 2014, 12:11 PM 

Could this be the work of "thing 1 and thing 2" ??? happy.gif

[linked image]

BTW, what is wrong with using "pastor" when referring to the preacher?

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Any news about this new start up church

December 5 2014, 10:35 PM 

Based on the several attempts to infiltrate Madison into "a theater for holy entertianment" they are defined only by myths and legends: Muthos is the OPPOSITE of LOGOS and Logos outlaws anything but SPEAKING (Ephesians 5) that which is written for learning and not a command to make music.

The Bible is credible only if it tells the history of the good, the bad and the ugly. The Scribes wrote the history of the God-abandoned monarchs who were also abandoned to "worship the starry host" imposed because of the musical idolatry of the Egyptian trinity. Trinity as we have noted is a latter day myth within churches of Christ as the platform for a radical shift into feminists and effeminate "worship" services where people corrupt the Word meaning selling learning at retail also meaning prostitution. A Godly teacher will never run out of that which is written and when people turn from SPEAK and SAY to rhetoric, singing, playing instruments and acting, ancient civil society would say that they are "drunk, perverted or just having fun" such as mocking Jesus.

Pind. O. 7 [5] honoring the grace of the symposium and the new marriage-bond, and thereby, in the presence of his friends, makes him enviable for his harmonious marriage-bed; I too, sending to victorious men poured nectar,
the gift of the Muses, the sweet fruit of my mind, [methuo fluted down with wine[
I try to win the gods' favor [10] for those men who were victors at Olympia and at Pytho. That man is prosperous, who is encompassed by good reports.
.....Grace, which causes life to flourish,
.....looks with favor now on one man, now on another,
.....with both the sweet-singing lyre and the full-voiced notes of flutes.
And now, with the music of flute and lyre alike I have come to land with Diagoras, singing the sea-child of Aphrodite and bride of Helios [Apollon]

This defines the CROOKED RACE or those "fluting you down with wine" which must be stopped before you can SPEAK which is opposite of ODE.

--Commentary [5] sumposiou te kharin: anti tou tōn en tō sumposiō (Schol.). “For the sake of them that sat at drink with him.” s. = hoi sumpinontes, as theatron = hoi theōmenoi. Others, “to grace the banquet.”


--sumpotikos , ē, on,
A.convivial, nomoi s. the laws of drinking-parties, enforced by the sumposiarkhos, Pl.Lg. 671c; s. harmoniai modes suited for drinking-songs,

[7] I too, sending to victorious men poured nectar, the gift of the Muses, the sweet fruit of my mind, I try to win the gods' favor

Moisan dosin [licence, permission]: The Muses have given it aphneias apo kheiros. But the figure is not carried out, though it might have been. The phiala [vials poured out for drinking] would have represented the maestro di cappella. Compare O. 6.91, where Aineas is called glukus kratēr agaphthegktōn aoidan.

Mūsăgĕtes , ae, m., = Mousagetēs, I.leader of the muses, an epithet of Apollo and Hercules,

The VIAL of the Maestro [Wizard] of the Cappella is:

kra-tēr 2. metaph., k. aoidan, of the messenger who bears an ode, Pi.O.6.91; k. kakōn, of a sycophant [bootlicker, brown-noser, toady, lickspittle, flatterer], Ar.Ach.937

Sad songs are tragedies or goat songs: cappella [Azazel] defined the offering of the scapegoat [to the devil. The craftsmen, singers and instrument players perform in the Thargelia, when a scapegoat (pharmakos) assumed the communal guilt; and the Pyanepsia

God promised to LEAVE US A WAY OF ESCAPE as the Little Flock OUT of the World for which Jesus doesn't pray. Worship is IN our spirit as a PLACE: if they claim that all of the ACTORS are performing worship for you to imitate, they are VIALS POURED OUT: lick it up.

I may not be right but I don't have to since there is no command, example or inference of God calling His people into assembly (synagogue) for congregational singing with or without instruments so the musicators MUST be the hallucinators.

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Re: Any news about this new start up church

December 5 2014, 10:50 PM 

It is interesting that you would quote Wayne Jackson and yet ask what is the problem with using "the pastor" to refer to the pulpit minister.

Pastor refers to the tri-fold description of pastor (shepherd), bishop (overseer), and elder (presbyter). These are used more or less interchangeable in Acts 20--look around verse 28.

There was a plurality of these in the New Testament, since they were set up in every church and every city. "The pastor" refers to a single person, who can impose his will on the entire congregation. When the members consider one man "the pastor" or the pulpit minister considers himself as "the pastor" the church is in trouble. This type of imaging implies that the right of self-determination of taken from each member of the church, who are supposed to be a royal priesthood--that is have a voice in their own direction and salvation.

An eldership (or shepherdship, etc) that allows the pulpit minister to be "the pastor" is in trouble, since it is not long until the membership rebels and causes the elders great grief. This is what happened of late at Madison.

The pulpit minister who refuses to take the counsel of elders, and flakes off to another congregation, has already disqualified himself since he becomes a tyrant of pope. Elders that allow a preacher to steer his own rudder, are asking for big problems down the road, when he becomes insufferable to the congregation and they cough him up.

Those who follow him deserve him, and they will be able to stand it for a while, but they too may eventually not be able to tolerate it much longer.

It would be good that the elders (overseers, shepherds) should be able to pastor the congregation through preaching and teaching themselves.

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Donnie Cruz
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Re: Any news about this new start up church

December 6 2014, 10:59 PM 


You asked, "... I thought maybe someone would have mentioned in previous threads but can't find any information."

I believe it was mentioned in another thread: "Madison's New (Instrumental) 'Vision'" [this relevant information you may have missed]:

Subject: "Turned" (September 14 2014, 9:31 PM)
Posted by: Scripture

Move to community church aborted by elders.

They attempt to become like the "old church of Christ."

No more performances from the stage--song leader and preacher only to be there.

Seeking to get some man in pulpit with long-standing experience.

Many are very pleased.

Pulpit minister refused to modify his stances and he was defiant even in his last sermon.

Worship leader appears compliant and agreeable to changes.

This happens in the background of three elders resigning several months ago. Remaining elders are almost all in agreement to retrench.


Subject: "Resignations" (October 13 2014, 11:50 AM)
Posted by: Scripture

Worship leader and youth leader resigned.

Rumor that splinter group has collected over 100 adherents.

Elders begs the few remaining praise team members to stay.

Two men from LU are alternating on pulpit.

I hope this helps.

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Donnie Cruz
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Re: Any news about this new start up church

December 7 2014, 1:26 AM 


You may recall my statement in June: "... when instrumental music accompaniment [prerecorded...] at Madison officially began." To that you responded as follows:

June 3 2014, 10:00 AM

Not bust your "I finally got them doing instrumental music" bubble.....BUT the "instrumental Music" your think you heard while singing the last praise song on May 25 was not "instrumental" at all. It was prerecorded vocal percussion...meaning done with vocals, one might say by plucking the heart strings. The vocal percussion was then played back using a loop pedal. Sorry but keep digging. But again reporting facts is not y'all's strong suit in the first place.

OK, while you questioned our "reporting facts," you provided info regarding the use of a "loop pedal." And it is for this reason that I believe you may be able to provide additional information regarding this recent development at Madison.

Where is this group meeting? How is the "pastor" compensated? Has Madison's former "worship leader" joined the group? Does the group have the "instrumental music/band"?

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

SECTARIANS leaving the ANTI-instrumental sectarians

December 8 2014, 3:00 PM 

ALL of the theologians (Apollon's teachers) make the claim that churches of Christ SECTED out of the Christian church in 1906 when the Christian church didn't begin to organize until 1927. They were already beginning to focus on PSALLO to prove that you are sinners if you don't join them in "instrumental worship" (meaning from Babylon onward, the worship of the instrumnent." Even david wanted to awaken his lyre so he could awaken the DAWN who is the "mother" of lucifer: why not since God had turned the Jews over to worship the starry host.

They hold world-wide assemblies to claim that churches of Christ--being evil rednecks--INVENTED or STOPPED the use of instruments which they say that God COMMANDED. If you have a hidden agenda to infiltrate and divert other people's property what's wrong with lying? They will grow and glow and collect (the Locust parable) all but a LITTLE FLOCK whom God gave to Jesus OUT of the World of which they were never a part.

Not surprising, it is ALWAYS the instrumental idolaters who deliberately sow discord so that they can PERFORM as SUBSTITUTES for the one Mediator the MAN JESUS CHRIST. But, the guilt clause works on most of the people most of the time and that's good enough.

I was working on Romans 8 to prove that the Spirit (mind) of God does not live INSIDE of a carnal body as a PERSON guiding them to lie and came across this old post: I can repeat it for the occasional person who wants to quit lying about Churches of Christ stopping their fun (Stark Warlick debate etal).

[linked image]
[linked image]

In fact there is NO historical and literate scholar who does not denounce those wanting to impose the practices of vile festivals or theaters into the School of Christ. But, having NO evidence they can just invent "postmodernism" to say that their is no TRUTH and so their "truth" can be used to rob you in tithes and offerings.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Dec 8, 2014 3:01 PM

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Ken Sublett
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Re: SECTARIANS leaving the ANTI-instrumental sectarians

December 8 2014, 7:06 PM 

Only those OF the world for which Jesus does not pray have such a wretched view of the Spirit God of the Universe that they will do anything to keep people from learning FROM HIM. Much of the SAVING practices are to save the believers FROM the common "worship services" defined as IMPURE religion consisting of all of the acts and actors presuming to worship FOR you as the creature to take your eye off the Creator. The Restoration Ideal was the ANTITHESIS of what had most often been a way to fleece the widows of their food money.

Thomas Campbell Church and Worship.

Jesus said that the kingdom does not come with observation meaning religious observations. In CONTRAST ekklesia assembles as synagogue defined always to prevent the input of human resources and absent any of the rituals for which the Jacob-cursed and god-abandoned Levi tribe got paid.
Thomas Paine repeats.

Again and again I say that the SYNAGOGUE was defined by Christ (the Rock) for the ekklesia or free citizens to gather to learn from God. Contrary to the Babylonians He does not need to be entertained, housed and fed and this MARKS the giant outbreak of PERFORMANCE worship.

Upon this one article have been erected all the different superstructures of creeds and ceremonies continually warring with each other that now exist or ever existed.

But the men most and best informed upon the subject of theology rest themselves upon this universal article, and hold all the various superstructures erected thereon to be at least doubtful, if not altogether artificial.

The intellectual part of religion is a private affair between every man and his Maker, and in which no third party has any right to interfere. The practical part consists in our doing good to each other.

But since religion has been made into a trade, the practical part has been made to consist of ceremonies performed by men called priests; and the people have been amused with ceremonial shows, processions, and bells. By devices of this kind true religion has been banished; and such means have been found out to extract money even from the pockets of the poor, instead of contributing to their relief. No man ought to make a living by Religion. It is dishonest so to do.

Religion is not an act that can be performed by proxy. One person cannot act religion for another. Every person must perform it for himself; and all that a priest can do is to take from him; he wants nothing but his money and then to riot in the spoil and laugh at his credulity.

The only people who, as a professional sect of Christians provide for the poor of their society, are people known by the name of Quakers. Those men have no priests. They assemble quietly in their places of meeting,

and do not disturb their neighbours with shows and noise of bells.

Religion does not unite itself to show and noise.

True religion is without either. Where there is both there is no true religion.

The first object for inquiry in all cases, more especially in matters of religious concern, is TRUTH.

Paine probably lost his faith in dogma when he saw a small boy hanging at a cross-roads there by a priest because he had been caught stealing bread. However, he understood the for sale of the sacrificial system which God did not command, and the that Jesus didn't have any things in his carpet bag to sell.

It is a want of feeling to talk of priests and bells whilst so many infants are perishing in the hospitals, and aged and infirm poor in the streets, from the want of necessaries. The abundance that France produces is sufficient for every want, if rightly applied; but priests and bells, like articles of luxury, ought to be the least articles of consideration.

By direct statement the people willing to steal your bread today get their authority from the priests and Levites and make a profession out of turning direct commands into lies.

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Re: Any news about this new start up church

December 8 2014, 6:14 PM 

Apparently, we have a couple of teasers instead of any real information. "Drama Queens" amuck!

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Any news about this new start up church

December 9 2014, 12:16 AM 

"Where's the beef," Justice? Or. should I say, "What's your beef"? happy.gif

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

The Mark

December 9 2014, 11:47 AM 

They will lie to God and the congregation and lie about God with the hidden agenda which was outed too early to "infilrate your happy congregation and turn it into A THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT. Then threatening and carrying out an attack because you are SOWING DISCORD. Remember the Angels of Light warning?

The guilt clause is as old as Adam:

Phaedrus: The Wolf and the Lamb
BY thirst incited; to the brook
The Wolf and Lamb themselves betook.
The Wolf high up the current drank,
The Lamb far lower down the bank.

Then, bent his ravenous maw to cram,
The Wolf took umbrage at the Lamb.
"How dare you trouble all the flood,
And mingle my good drink with mud?"

"Sir," says the Lambkin, sore afraid,
"How should I act, as you upbraid?
The thing you mention cannot be,
The stream descends from you to me."

Abash'd by facts, says he, " I know
'Tis now exact six months ago
You strove my honest fame to blot"-
"Six months ago, sir, I was not."

"Then 'twas th' old ram thy sire," he cried,
And so he tore him, till he died.
To those this fable I address
Who are determined to oppress,

And trump up any false pretence,
But they will injure innocence.

Another of the well documented GUILT CLAUSES

"There were those saying that they could "not abide the election of a Republican President."
In which event they would destroy the Union.
"And then, you say, the great crime of having destroyed it will be upon us: That is cool.

A highwayman holds a pistol to my ear, and mutters through his teeth,

"Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you,
and then you will be a murderer." Abraham Lincoln, Frost, Vol. 1, p. 274

Pepperdine has hired Mike Cope who hired Jeff Walling to set up a department to REPROGRAM all of the Bible Preachers who became evil SECTARIANS by refusing to join the Disciples-Christians denomination in their "organ and society party" to buy only Standard's song books, sermons and bible class material NOT CONTROLLED by the local elders.

This is a program active at the other once-Christian colleges.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Dec 9, 2014 12:09 PM

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There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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