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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Sponsoring this thread

January 19 2015, 2:23 PM 

Justly,

Thanks for contributing to this thread. As said, "I learn something new everyday."

This discussion should continue -- thanks to William Hall for bringing it up and letting us be more aware of the "isms" and religious movements infecting and affecting even "strong" congregations.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Suggested thread 4th Ave in Franklin Tn: William Hall

January 19 2015, 5:09 PM 

Romans Chapter 10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


As Donnie has noted several times EIS means into, unto or in the direction of. Confession is in the direction on the road to salvation. I warned you about loosing the ability to read black text on brown paper. We never read step 10 on 'how to dismantle an atomic warhead" without reading steps 1-9. EXCEPT if you are a trained THEOLOGIAN.

If you find someone to read all of Romans 10 you will discover that Paul cycles through the STEPS of salvation in three steps or cycles. Only repentance is left out because "calling on the name of the Lord" is the meaning of BAPTISM: it is asking or the only REQUEST for A good conscience which is A holy spirit (the spirit of the one with an UNholy spirit). I have left you three examples of CALLING. You probably will never see or hear a preacher in the WORLD (for which Jesus doesn't even pray) with the ability to let Scripture speak for itself as opposed to snipping out proof texts which is really lying and despising (blaspheming) Christ by not letting Him be the ONLY teacher from God--if you are a minimal Christian.

[linked image]
[linked image]

I am trained as an engineer: I never plug things in until I read the sign which says "do not plug this thing in."

Theologians by their CONFESSION use imagination or just leave out verses they do not like. That is because the LITTLE FLOCK almost invisible and can NEVER be a large CIRCE bot visible and audible and in your face "and please do not leave without tithing and offering."

We are SAFE by grace (which teaches) through faith (compliance) FROM Ephesians 2:1f all of the pagan worship rituals intending to MAKE THE LAMBS DUMB BEFORE THE SLAUGHTER.





    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.20.116.93 on Jan 19, 2015 5:13 PM


 
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Justly
(no login)
108.230.196.85

What are Small Groups and Grow Groups?

January 20 2015, 7:27 PM 



Scripture said,

"Two other questions:

What is the difference between small group discussion and worship?

When does a small group become an assembly?"


*****************************


Scripture, it's up to you...we need info on these "groups". We need someone that's local. Would you be so kind as to attend these groups and report back? Thanks!


http://www.madisonchurchtn.org/

http://www.madisonchurchtn.org/connect/growgroups/


 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: What are Small Groups and Grow Groups?

January 20 2015, 9:44 PM 

There are some obvious differences between small groups and large assemblies.

One can wander through a large congregation, and it is likely that no one says "hello." The "shepherds" that Jesus describes as "good" know each sheep by name! Elders in large church are know to ask 20 year members if they are visitors. This may be the secret of successful ministers and elders, in that they never met a stranger.

Leaders of large congregations call this the lack of "connectivity." Most drop-outs from churches are related to connectivity. Also large churches may have a few very big classes, and people don't feel free to state their points of views, nor ask questions that they need answered. You will have greater divergence of opinions in small groups, but this gives you practice in "defending the faith" or at least re-investigating all your previous convictions. There are no elders riding herd over the small group, since each is free to express a view.

Small groups are more like the New Testament church, where each member is a intricate part of the larger body.

As congregations become bigger, cohesion is lost, and we are no longer "members one of another," as Paul referred.

Hierarchy arises is large congregations, with power at the top, and with dominance of just a few, then the will of the congregation is either not known or no leader cares.

The located preacher becomes a professional speaker, and there is little give and take with the congregation. The elders instruct the preacher, and he often become a "paid voice."

Small groups can benefit the church's growth, in that attendees don't feel threatened, nor are they run off by the manners of a large church. Believe it or not, the "meet and greet" or the "love feast" as Madison calls it, is listed as reason # 1 that visiting attendees are alienated.

If you were a lady attending a small group, you might also feel that your voice is heard at a more natural level, and you would not be overwhelmed by numerous layers of bureaucracy.

There is so much more that can be said.

 
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Justly
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: What are Small Groups and Grow Groups?

January 20 2015, 11:35 PM 


Scripture, thanks for the info. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: What are Small Groups and Grow Groups?

January 21 2015, 11:50 AM 

There are many stages leading (eis) into salvation in the sense of Remission of Sins. If your sins have been remitted and you are saved you are SAFE from those who make a living out of calling the LOGOS a liar.

True: no one can come to God without a supernatural operation. John Calvin whom the theologians never read said:

1. God gave us the SCRIPTURES which are the product of the Spirit OF God.

2. And Jesus sent EVANGELISTS into all the world to teach the Word.

Next, those who gladly ACCEPT that word will by definition want to be baptized.

TEACHING is necessary for anyone to HEAR.
HEARING is necessary for for faith.
FAITH comes by hearing the WORD of God
BELIEVING is accepting the facts in the trusting sense where Pistis means to COMPLY
Repenting does not mean just from a sinful life but turning TOWARD God
Confessing is made a condition with the enuch and Cornelius.
Being baptized is said to SAVE us and the only way you can ask God to "wash away your sins."
The gift of A holy spirit is OUR spirits washed from sin.
Only THEN can you follow Jesus marked by teaching what HE commanded to be taught.

These are not just "steps" as the mockers mock but the only rational way that one can become a follower of Christ.

 
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Justly
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Small Groups

January 21 2015, 1:28 PM 


I have been in Baptist Churches that call couples Sunday School classes "small groups". I'm not sure how Madison is using the term. Does Madison have couples Sunday School classes?

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Small Groups

January 21 2015, 2:35 PM 

Public schools try to limit class size to no more than 18, more or less. Attention to more than this is problematic. Madison's traditional large class sizes have let a lot of questions and attention fall through the cracks, with many Biblical and spiritual questions unanswered. One good thing about the current situation is that the class sizes may be coming down to earth. Celebrities bring crowds, but it is doubtful that they bring knowledge or depth.

Church of Christ Bible Study groups are what you call Sunday School. We can't call it "Sunday School" because we had a small segment break off and cause trouble because they said the Sunday School was an unauthorized institution taking the place of the church. Sound familiar? So the easy way was to call them Bible study (groups). We never used the term "groups." It was just "Bible Study" and go to "class."

Madison uses the term "grow groups" to encourage additions of new people to class. Thus there should be less lethargy. But they didn't appear to grow. Maybe this is the "orange" influence.

Right now, nobody at the Madison church knows if we are "orange" anymore, or if we have Bible study, or if there are "grow groups." So bring in the old tired leadership again, and let's recreate the climate that led to the decline that we now have.

 
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Justly
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Small Groups

January 22 2015, 9:07 AM 


Has Madison ever had mixed Bible study classes (men and women attend same class)?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Small Groups

January 22 2015, 12:32 PM 

Small Groups or Prayer Circles were part of the hostile takeover of many congregations. Lynn Anderson affirmed by Pepperdine, ACU and LU wrote "navigating the winds of change." He really mean "manipulating the winds of change." His Hope Network is a takeoff of the old Crossroads, Boston Church or the IOCC. Here is one of the best papers which I have reposted in part

http://www.piney.com/ChCircles.html

The Timothy Network was founded by an ex youth ministry and a deacon at North Boulevard Church.

http://www.piney.com/The.Timothy.Network.Text.html

David young has begun a church wide Extreme Discipleship Movement which intends to include about 35 percent of the members: these will be the spiritual elite.

http://www.piney.com/David.Young.Extreme.Discipleship.Following.Jesus.html

I have included some of Lynn Anderson and the Discipling Dilema. All of these collect personal information which may but probably not will be HACK FREE until someone gets angry with you. This is consistent with the neo-Catholic feminists in the "mainline universities"

http://www.piney.com/ErasmusDecl.html

When they hear these words and see common sailors and waggoners preferred to themselves what sort of looks do you think they'll give each other? But for the moment they're happy in their expectations, not without help from me.

And although they are segregated from civil life, no one can afford to belittle them, especially the Mendicants. who know all about everyone's secrets from the confessional, as they call it.

They know it's forbidden to publish these abroad, unless they happen to be drinking and want to be amused with entertaining stories, but then names are mentioned and the facts left open to conjecture.

But if anyone stirs up this hornets' nest they'll take swift revenge in their public sermons, pointing out their enemy by insinuations and allusions so artfully veiled that no one And you'll have to throw your sop to Cerberus before they'll make an end of barking.


My Echo: The DIRECT COMMANDMENT of Christ the Rock for the assembly of the godly to quarantine them from religious observations to which Jesus said the Kingdom will not come is to ASSEMBLE ONCE A WEEK as part of the REST to Have the WORD ONLY Read to them for instruction only. Anything beyond that singular part of the REST day is confessed to be based on the "worship" of the Civil-Military-Clergy whom Christ called robbers and parasites who had gained their DOMINANCE, according to Nehemiah, because of the sins of the people.

If you let a camel get his foot into your tent he will deficate on your bed--and charge you a fee.





 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Small Groups

January 22 2015, 3:44 PM 

The code word for women teaching both men and women is "Coed" when the woman is a teacher.

"Coed" for men teaching men and women is the traditional class.

Some women teach that since the elders said she could teach a code class, then it is okay.

Another elder said that they couldn't (wouldn't?) force men to leave such a coed class taught by a woman.


 
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Justly
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Small Groups

January 22 2015, 7:17 PM 



Is Bible Class considered to be part of the "assembly"?

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Small Groups

January 22 2015, 9:00 PM 

Traditionally women teachers did not teach baptized mature men but there was disagreement about whether they can teach baptized younger men. Maybe splitting hairs. So some rules considered "assemblies" to include classes also. Prayers led by women with mature men present and generally any men was not practiced.

These are some of reasons that women have gravitated to political realms leaving churches behind. Churches of Christ are not alone here, with other churches more
or less similar. Women find being in elected office more friendly than the church.

 
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Justly
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Small Groups

January 24 2015, 11:48 AM 


Are snacks and drinks allowed in the Bible Classes? It has become common within Sunday School. I usually partake of the coffee. Things have changed.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Small Groups

January 24 2015, 1:39 PM 

Maybe no one noticed but the women have been ruling over for several decades. If the get charge from cradle role to about grade six they have violated history and common sense that young boys should be trained by men or you will get what you get in pulpits and musical performers. About the time they get baptized or not without understanding they begin to dismiss the whole thing.

Now, women rule over from cradle to past college class and now preaching over with a tune. The early assemblies met for what we call Bible Class and don't be surprised that they try to force the Youth Sect to cut out and past up even in grade 12 using material written by women.

In most of my life in Tennessee the wives of deacons and therefore the wives, have been decisive in searching for and recommending new preachers. And that has yielded mostly flakey men who dare not obey the command to teach that which HAS been taught.


 
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Justly
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Small Groups

January 24 2015, 4:47 PM 


Ken, Scripture and I were having a tea party. How rude of you to interrupt! happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Small Groups

January 24 2015, 8:33 PM 

I guess I got tead off.

 
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Justly
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Salvage Ship Underway

January 24 2015, 5:13 PM 



Front and center William. This thread is yours. Will you be man enough to say what needs to be said? Prepare for battle! Good luck!

 
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William
(no login)
108.18.176.10

Re: Salvag Ship Underway and other

January 27 2015, 11:08 PM 


This thread barely took off on topic. I suppose that because 1 Cor 14 and 1 Tim 2 are really hard to get around. I have not read a convincing contrary argument to what the texts state: women should keep quiet in the assembly. Whatever the "assembly" is. Of course, forbidding females to sing in the chapel choir and substituting castrati was an unspeakable perversion on several counts. Of course, there are many times where women are clearly recorded as equal to men in their holiness and with their gifts outside the assembly. Whatever the "assembly" is.

A fair question is raised: if I interpret assembly to include anything that happens in connection with a gathering of the saints on the Lord's Day a part of the assembly, then am I not guilty of sinning because I fail to follow my conscience of what is right? Or if I consider whatever happens outside the "large group" to be separate from the assembly, are not the ladies to have some latitude (I've fallen in love with that word), especially under the direct guidance of the elders?

I don't know much about small groups, having never attended a congregation where a need was believed to exist. I have attended house studies and discussion groups, at elder's houses and not, and no one questioned the ladies rights to participate. I am pretty sure that in the first century whole congregations were small groups.

O.K. The first Lord's Supper was part of a meal. The phrase "breaking bread" is older than any association with the Lord's Supper. When they went "house to house" "breaking bread" it meant they were sharing meals, which many believe included a celebration of the Lord's Supper no matter what day it was. Apparently, the Corinthians were perverting the entire assembly including the meal in conjunction with the assembly and in conjunction with the Lord's Supper. Now we have reduced it to pinching off the smallest bit of the bread that we can possibly pinch off.

So, if there are snacks before the assembly, whether in the Sunday School or elsewhere, doing all in decency and in order clearly depends on how those times are defined. Are they part of the assembly? Eat at home. Elsewise, you can't teach a hungry child (no matter how old the child is). I always enjoy my trips back to Tennessee where there may be Krispy Kremes with the coffee.

I always enjoy driving across the Plateau where there is a denomination called the Baptist Churche of Christ.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Small Groups

January 24 2015, 5:36 PM 

Coffee and tea are allowed in classes in both progressive and traditional Churches of Christ.


Noninstitutional COC's don't allow any beverages or eating either in class or in the church building anywhere anytime.

 
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This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

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