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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Get over It and move on...

March 15 2015, 8:38 PM 

There never was a WORSHIP day for the godly Jews or Christians. Sabbath and Paul mean REST: Remember that Jesus came to give us REST. You as an elder are dedicated to making the "lambs" pay for the most stressful, works-intensive day of the week. WORK outlawed "sending our ministers of God." The pattern was to stay put and listen to the Word PREACHED by being READ for comfort and doctrine.

If the LORD is the Shepherd (leads to feed only)

Psa. 23:0 A Psalm of David.
Psa. 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd [refectionis educavit me “in his (scholis) educatur orator,]:; I shall not want.
Psa. 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
Still Waters are rcon-sōlor refreshment, refection, recreation, recovery (cf.: “relaxatio, remissio):
Psa. 23:3 He restoreth my soul con-verto he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.
Psa. 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort [con-sōlor] me.
Psa. 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psa. 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
Psa. 24:0 ¶ A Psalm of David.
Psa. 24:1 ¶ The earth is the LORD’S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
Psa. 24:2 For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
Psa. 24:3 ¶ Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
Psa. 24:4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity [fictum (opp. vera) “oratio], nor sworn deceitfully.
Psa. 24:5 He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

How much FOOD do you feed the lambs while you lead them beside RUSHING waters.


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Get over It and move on...

March 15 2015, 8:21 PM 

Just,

You are correct -- the word of God remains the same. It should never change or be changed.

And cultural changes and the aging process are not the issue. You are correct again, and I agree.

However, the issue arises when cultural and custom changes result in God's word being altered by man. For example, where the truth is that baptism (being buried with Christ) is essential to salvation ... and someone alters God's truth by saying, "No, baptism is not essential and it's done only after one has been saved" -- that is unquestionably changing God's truth.

 
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Just Layman
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Get over It and move on...

March 16 2015, 1:17 PM 



CM Donnie, I was mauled by the CM hit team the last time I mentioned Baptism. That won't happen again. As I recall, CM Scripture was the only one to show any remorse for the attack. Ask the Madison Elders and Pastors for Church Doctrine relating to Baptism. My John Deere is calling me, see you much later.

 
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Just
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 16 2015, 9:01 AM 


Donnie said:

Just,

A good compilation of the men and women used by God! It is impressive. How long did it take you to come up with that list? Or, do you have a source or link we can easily access?

*****************************

I'm not trying to fool anyone. It is a good article! I was just a layperson looking for an encouraging message https://sermons.logos.com/submissions/120221-God-Used-Them-Anyway#content=/submissions/120221
happy.gif

Welcome to Sermons.Logos.com, an online Christian community built around user created sermons and illustrations. Whether you’re a pastor doing sermon research, a layperson looking for an encouraging message, or a small group leader looking for a great illustration to open your discussion, Sermons.Logos.com has what you need.

At Sermons.Logos.com you can:

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What are you waiting for? Get started today!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 18 2015, 12:52 AM 

Just,

Thanks for the link to "God Used Them Anyway."

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 18 2015, 5:48 PM 

I wish he had added Judas. The Judas bag was for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments. It was always attached to a flute case. This fulfills the prophecy of Psalm 41 where the "familiar friend" would not triump over Jesus meaning the "vocal or instrumental noise" outlawed for the synagogue in the wilderness.

He also uses the Muses (Locusts) or Apollon's worship team to SEPARATE the grain from the chaff to be gathered and cast into the fire.

[linked image]

[linked image]

 
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DCA
(no login)
107.142.253.246

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 16 2015, 3:42 PM 

Someone once said.....
"Do you know what happened to a well-known congregation whose elders said, "Get over it; we must move on [with our plans to to impose changes that the majority disagreed with]"? Members of that congregation left in droves!!! And now that congregation is far from recovering."

Over a 1000 people come to worship at Madison each Sunday morning, yet the congregation is still recovering?
Maybe SOMEONE has a defeatist attitude, is negative minded, and wants his way to the point where they might keep up this weak banter and tirade UNTIL they get the traditions back that once were....the old traditions that are good and Scriptural....just as well as the new traditions that are in the making, are good and Scriptural. The old paths are good...EXCEPT....when they are said to be better than the new ones. That would be a deliberately false statement....and immature.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 16 2015, 10:21 PM 

WHO gets the right to IMPOSE new traditions which violates the message of the Word or Logos: opposite sermonizing, singing, playing instruments, acting or personal experiences or jokes?

NOT using "vocal or instrumental rejoicing or rhetoric" is a tradition ordained by Christ the Rock for the Church in the wilderness. Refusing to begin to use or tolerate others IMPOSING instruments contrary to all credible recorded history is NOT just your old tradition or preference. If you understand that a Christian is a Disciple commanded to use that which is written then anything that minimizes the LEARNING EXPERIENCE is to repudiate the purpose driven Christ. In prophecy and recorded history the only assembly called on the REST Day is defined as SCHOOL. Elders are commanded to "teach that which has been taught." How could one find any room to let the elders refute that which has been taught?

A church of Christ is the SECT called the WAY: the road is very narrow and almost no one finds it. Opinions of the world or ECUMENICAL are the domain of Satan.

A church of Christ follows the TRADITIONS commanded both inclusively in the prophets and apostles as the ONLY resource for teaching. The sign out front does not mean that the group assembles or SYNAGOGUES which is defined exclusively to PREACH the Word by READING the word for comfort and doctrine. Anything beyond that which gobbles up the SCHOOL time is the TRADITION OF MEN.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
.....after the tradition of men,
.....after the rudiments of the world,
.....and not after Christ.[CENI]

2Th. 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast,
.....and hold the traditions which ye have been taught,
.....whether by word, or our epistle.[CENI]

2Th. 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly,
.....and not after the tradition which he received of us. [CENI]

1Pet. 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things,
..... as silver and gold,
.....from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.20.116.93 on Mar 16, 2015 10:33 PM


 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 16 2015, 11:58 PM 

1000 attendance. Six elders. Hmmmm?

 
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Just Layman
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 17 2015, 9:12 PM 



1 Timothy Chapter 5

17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer [is] worthy of his reward.

19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 18 2015, 1:09 AM 

"1000 attendance. Six elders. Hmmmm?"

I see 5 pictures: http://www.madisonchurchtn.org/our-shepherds/ Has the 6th elder resigned?

Six may be a proportionate number, since there were 15 when attendance was 3000 some 15 years ago.

I know, I know, Dave, that "recovery" may no longer be applicable for the missing 2,000.

 
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DCA
(no login)
107.142.253.246

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 17 2015, 6:15 PM 

Someone once asked "WHO gets the right to IMPOSE new traditions which violates the message of the Word or Logos: opposite sermonizing, singing, playing instruments, acting or personal experiences or jokes?"


Since there isn't any violating the Word of Logos with opposite sermonizing, that would constitute a fabrication by Someone (might even call it a tall tale). Since singing was done by Jesus, that isn't a problem. Playing instruments isn't condemned by Scriptures and the only problem with using skits to tell a Biblical story is that SOMEONE is too old and set in their ways to accept it. Skits can be from Scriptural stories, and since SOMEONE doesn't attend with a church they wouldn't know the content therein and thereof of any such skits, except from secondhand. Lastly, SOMEONE (will not mention any names but his initials are Ken Sublett) tells jokes all the time here at concerned members....so that would make someone a hypocrite since they condemn such.

Save him Donnie......Take up for him.....again.

Ken, you never answered me from a while back....when you WERE attending church, did you EVER sing a song?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Grammar: Speaking and Singing

March 18 2015, 2:31 AM 

"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord" (Ephesians 5:19).

SPEAKING:
TO WHOM ----- to yourselves
WHAT -------- psalms and hymns and spiritual songs



SINGING (and making melody):
TO WHOM ----- to the Lord
HOW/WHERE --- in your heart



The Catholic Bible translation is correct occasionally [ happy.gif ]:

"And a hymn being said, they went out unto mount Olivet" (Matt. 26:30, Douay-Rheims Bible).

"And when they had said an hymn, they went forth to the mount of Olives" (Mark 14:26, Douay-Rheims Bible).

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 18 2015, 5:35 PM 

Yep! destroyed my vocal cords trying to keep up with the gitty-up-go.

Yep! had my hearing destroyed by decibel poisoning.

Yep! when the locals gave the song books to a denomination and bought the new Howards (aka Vineyard) song book and begain Praize-sanging I lost my emotional health. The ugly 1000th cut was "wurshuping the further, wurshuping Je-Zeus and wurshuping the Huly Spurit.

There is no recorded history which does not prove that most musical sounds especially repeated repeated with or without instruments deranges or dissociates your mind so that lies can be poured into the female hemisphere without you knowing it. The Jubilee etal driven purpose was to do a drum beat of anti churches of Christ to dissociate your mind or drive you into a state unable to resist the NEW PARADIGMS which lie.


Pindar, Nemean Odes 7. [20] And I expect that the story of Odysseus came to exceed his experiences, through the sweet songs of Homer, [22] since there is a certain solemnity in his lies and winged artfulness, and poetic skill deceives, seducing us with stories, and the heart of the mass of men is blind. For if For if [25] they had been able to see the truth, then mighty Aias, in anger over the arms, would never have planted in his chest the smooth sword--Aias, who was the most powerful in battle, except for Achilles, and whom the breath of the unswerving Zephyr conveyed in swift ships, to bring back the wife of golden-haired Menelaus [30] from the city of Ilus. But the wave of Hades breaks over all alike; it falls on the man who does not expect it, and on the one who does. There is honor for those whose fame a god causes to grow luxuriant when they are dead. Neoptolemus came to help,3 to the great navel of the broad-bosomed earth. And he lies beneath the Pythian soil, par-agô ,


Your turn: find something good accomplished by music..

 
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DCA
(no login)
107.142.253.246

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 19 2015, 10:42 AM 

Regardless of anything else.....YOU SANG! You sang because is a tradition handed down by disciples of Christ. YOU SANG....to glorify God.

For you to NOW beat down those who do what you now say is deplorable (although you have never proven SINGING to be against the Word)....is pure and blatant HYPOCRISY.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Get Over It: That's What the Elders Said

March 19 2015, 3:15 PM 

I used to eat hot biscuits, bacon, eggs; hot biscuits buttered and swimming in sorghum. Hot pancakes slathered with butter and swimming in syrup. As a kid on the farm I ate Lard mixed with sugar, lard as icing, lard in cookies or pie crusts. Home grown jellies and jams or anything that didn't eat me first.

Now, a time came when I had to give them up or die. I wasn't a hypocrite but a FOOL because those things which seemed enjoyable were DESTROYING my body all along.

I could have saved my vocal cords, my hearing and my healthy nerves if there had been an APT elder who knew what the most ancients knew about musical sounds. If an APT elder as smart as a pre Christian Greek had been consulted, they would have known that music deranges the mind and induces all kinds of drugs like endorphins. The youth were excluded from the plays involving arousal styles of music (mostly tuned percussion) as well as from drinking wine. That included pregnant or likely to become pregnant women. It was left to modern medicine that women who were involved in wrath or ORGY meaning loud music could cause premature birth. Paul silenced the men and women so that she might be SAFE in childbirth.

This ASSAULT upon the lambs reached the tipping point when the New Style Praise singing was introduced to BRING YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF a god. Plato and the Fuller lady, Carol Wimber confessed that it brought on a sexual-like climax.

Now, if a drunken drug addict stops their MADNESS and warns others about drugs (music induced), an APT elder would call him a hypocrite-not. APT elders were commanded to exclude cunning crafts or sophists: rhetoricians, singers and instrument players because as validated by most recorded history THEY ARE LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Worship Services Preferences Battle Part A

March 17 2015, 1:18 PM 

When people speak of WORSHIP SERVICES that is the MARK of someone who neither knows the meaning of a Christian or the only ONCE A WEEK assembly.

When they use the "worship word" they will always be concerned with the old ACTS or performances which can be replaced with NEW acts of worship: it always means ADDITIONS which are divisive and therefore SECTARIANISM and new PERFORMERS which is the definition of LEGALISM. Legalism is a devoted word exclusively used in the text of rhetoric, singing, playing, acting or dancing requiring skill and HARD WORK believing that if they perform with perfection they can INFLUENCE God to pat them on the back for entertaining Him. He, in return, will multiply your tithes and offerings.

The exclusive "worship" concept for the godly people who attended the synagogue which quarantined them from the PATTERNS used by progressive PATTERNISTS devoted to Abaddon-Apollon and other "sun gods" was/is to GIVE ATTENTION to that which is written for our learning. Paul used the MAD word for people who would form a musical worship team to accompany and enhance Einstein's Lectures.

Over and over and over and over the NARROW, SECTARIAN WAY defines worship as a School of the Word which confesses that the students are not God and that Jesus as the Christ is the ONLY Teacher. Elders are commanded to teach that which has been taught. Elders are not APTed by Christ if they mumble about their authority to impose NEW TRADITIONS. A Christian by definition has confessed that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) the Son of God: the sinful woman at the well knew more than all of the theologians (Abaddon's teachers) when she said "Messias will tell us all things."

[linked image]




 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Worship Services Preferences Battle Part B

March 17 2015, 6:06 PM 

Using the "on a desert Island Parable" of the instrumentalists, we suggest that on a desert Island no one could read the whole Bible and fail to notice that there are two major divisions or RACES of humanity. Those OF the World or the ecumenical as the dominant, oppressive race needing to be the Alpha Male. While they are stealing tithes and offerings to satisfy a blood and flesh lust, God provides shelter during the storm (umbrellicum in Isaiah) as a place to REST. Rest in Hebrew, Latin or Greek is that one out of seven days to "do your own pleasure" and rest to allow the body and mind to repair itself. The REST day used for refreshing or regenerating the spirit was the day for SCHOOL. God teaches and the only flow of information is from Him to His creatures. All of the speaking, singing, playing or acting claimed to speak TO god and even inform Him..

Is. 40:9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
Is. 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm [messiah]shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
Is. 40:11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.
Is. 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?
Is. 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit OF the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?
Is. 40:14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?


God provides ALL of the FOOD and He is the TEACHER: the shepherd does not force the lambs to feed him unless he is a WOLF. A shepherd does not "upset the lamb's comfort zones" in order to force NEW TRADITIONS such as eating other lambs down their throat. IF you are part of an organization pleading for money to hire people to force you to do THEIR PLEASURE on your rest day and anything beyond being a SCHOOL where disciples go to be STUDENTS ONLY then you ARE part of a cult and you are probably too intimidated to be deprogrammed and 'come REST with Jesus': He wouldn't cut off and roast your left leg.

This is a CERTITUDE: a DOGMATIC statement:

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory:
but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true,
and no unrighteousness is in him.
John 8:50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.


Lambs do not go to the pastures to watch the shepherd exercise all of his motor, vocal and musical skills.

Paul's PATTERN to Timothy was that he WORK so that he could sponsor the agape or feeding the poor breakfast on their way seeking a day's wage. A minister is a SERVANT: if he is Senior Pastor consigning the Deacons to do the work then he is called PARASITE in all historic religionism.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.20.116.93 on Mar 17, 2015 6:11 PM


 
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DCA
(no login)
107.142.253.246

Re: Worship Services Preferences Battle Part B

March 18 2015, 3:51 PM 

Hey Donnie....Paul SAID a hymn also, instead of SINGING....right?


No.
No today.
No tomorrow.

Paul SANG and so did Jesus

Donnie, it is amazing how you can slam the Catholics when you need to, but when you need to use their Scriptural translation to prove your point.....well then.....that's ok.

That is ALSO hypocritical.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

DICTO means to SPEAK: Paul commanded SPEAK

March 18 2015, 5:14 PM 

I can understand the utter terrorism of ritual worshiper afraid of the SCHOOL. So far I know of only two people who know and can CONFESS that Paul and everyone commanded that we SPEAK the inspired text. Paul would understand the word MIZMOR rather than psalm. There are only 50 mizmors not dedicated to the LEVITE-ONLYs allowed to sing and make noise. None of these have an instrumental content and the Jews considered only 1/3 of the BOOK of psalms as suitable for use: that makes 50.

They are also terrorized by Enoch who defined the fall beyond redemption caused by mixed-sex choirs and instrument players: this led to homosexual relations even among family members. Paul tells the same story in Romans 1 which was repeated at Mount Sinai. Male "gods" nor their worshipers sang and played instruments one to another. For heaven's sake, there is no recorded history which does not MARK music as the "lusted after fruits" serving the Babylon Mother of Harlots.

If you cannot read S.P.E.A.K without seeing S.A.N.G then just rejoice and make merry: you will never be able to confess.

If you read O.D.E. and P.S.A.L.L.O IN the heart which means that I cannot hear your worship IN SPIRIT and IN TRUTH, then you are OF the World, Kosmos or the ECUMENICAL because you cannot fit a piano or organ through the "camel's eye"

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for MANY, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able

Besides, this is all ropa dopa because NO ONE intends to SANG that which is written for our learning. NO ONE YOU KNOW.

[linked image]




 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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