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DCA
(no login)
107.142.253.246

Re: DICTO means to SPEAK: Paul commanded SPEAK

March 19 2015, 10:13 AM 

Someone once said...."If you cannot read S.P.E.A.K without seeing S.A.N.G then just rejoice and make merry: you will never be able to confess"

That same someone said " Paul would understand the word MIZMOR rather than psalm. There are only 50 mizmors not dedicated to the LEVITE-ONLYs allowed to sing and make noise."

If you have to use a word(s) like MIZMOR to explain the already beautiful simple story of Jesus and the Love of God, then you will not have to worry about confession. You will not even get a chance to repent first

So feel really good inside about using those BIG words and that language which inspires only you....it should come in handy one day soon.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: DICTO means to SPEAK: Paul commanded SPEAK

March 19 2015, 2:10 PM 

I just copy all of those big words out of the Bible or the use and definition of the words understood by Little Aaron who attended synagogue school beginning at about 5. I remember early in school learning how to define and spell big words: that's when I knew that I was predestined to be a student.

We have no Biblical evidence of any INSTRUMENTS being played when Jesus and others met in the COURT YARD far removed from any holy places. They assembled there because that is where they could preach the gospel. Secular history says that the Feast of Tabernacles was a music and talent show: Jesus refused to go to Jerusalem for these festivities. Not surprising, the musical festival was the time and place the clergy intended to capture Jesus and murder Him. That IS the only PATTERNISM of the use of music to make war.

Alan Morrrison notes:
R.P. Martin says in his interesting book on worship in the early church that the reading and exposition of the Scriptures is "an inheritance we have received, through the early church, from the worship of Judaism, and which makes the model Christian service a Word-of-God service".

From the outset, church worship was a "Word-of-God service". The truths of the Bible were at the heart of worship. And this was also true insofar as the singing of songs was concerned.

It was the synagogues that remained after AD.70, NOT the Temple! The original purpose of the synagogue was primarily for Scripture-reading and exposition of the passages read (Lk.4:16-22; Mt.13:54; Mk.1:21-22; Jn.6:59).

There was also prayer (Mt.6:5) and, although there is no specific mention in the literature of singing in the synagogue, it is considered most likely [??] "that those parts of the Liturgy which were connected with Temple worship, like the recitation of psalms...were sung"

So long as one's idea of worship is rooted in the Temple concept, one will crave "celebrations" and big displays. The charismatic style of worship naturally arises out of this false concept of the O.T. Temple.

However, the chief element in synagogue worship -- its central factor -- was not ceremonial or display but something which was of vital importance to the shaping of the subsequent life of the local churches upon which the synagogue was so influential.

That element was the reading and exposition of Scripture. Worship in the Early Church involved "Word-of-God" services. Ralph Martin very appropriately called the reading and exposition of Scripture "the centre of gravity of the synagogue's service, with the blessings and prayers gathered around it"


THAT is what Jesus attended each Sabbath and endorsed the standing up to READ and then decently sitting down. History knows that "that there was no praise service." That was by direct command in Numbers and common decency when you hold Bible class.

NO ONE uses "that which is written for our learning" in their "five songs consisting of a few sentimental poems quite often teaching false doctrine." From the invention of singing c 373 the Driving Purpose of promoting the church's DOGMA. The not very often sermons had the same purpose.

When the ekklesia (Church in rest from clergy) assembles that of Jesus after his resurrection and Paul were called SYNAGOGUES. Your "worship rituals" are pattern after the temple not commanded but devoted to the worship of the starry host.




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.20.116.93 on Mar 19, 2015 2:43 PM


 
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DCA
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107.142.253.246

Re: DICTO means to SPEAK: Paul commanded SPEAK

March 19 2015, 7:50 PM 

Ken, you said " I just copy all of those big words out of the Bible..."
In your English King James Version Bible, where do you find the big word of MIZMOR?
happy.gif.....didn't think so.
Since the KJV is good, and no one except you reads the Hebrew Bible, then NO....those words don't come out of the Bible. That would be another fabrication from Ken Sublett's mind.

....and then you say that you were predestined to be a student? I gather that....but a student of whom, and more importantly...a student of what??? This should be a good answer.

So if my worship with the church, commanded from Hebrews 10:25 is from the starry host, then what is yours, given that your ekklesia comes from the couch and the computer?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: DICTO means to SPEAK: Paul commanded SPEAK

March 19 2015, 9:36 PM 

Wrong again: I have too much trouble getting up from the couch so I do Recliner. Go to bed 12-1; get up 8-9, have breakfast, do recliner 9-12, have lunch.

Psalm 150 is a praise song. Paul did not command praise songs. 76 are PRAISE SONG. These were "making self vile" with lots of twanging bowstrings in front of the enemy who knew that if they lost they would be raped, robbed and raped.

H1984 hâlal haw-lal' A primitive root; to be clear (originally of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show; to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave... feign self mad (against), give in marriage


H4210 mizmôr miz-more' From H2167 ; properly instrumental music; by implication a poem set to notes:—psalm.
LISTED HERE
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H4210&t=KJV

From h2167 Zamar but not used WITH an instrument unless named.

H2168 zâmar zaw-mar' A primitive root (compare H2167 , H5568 , H6785 ); to trim (a vine):—prune.


Delitzsch, Psalms: The word "psalm", which is derived from the Greek word psalmos, is a translation of the Hebrew term mizmor, which is the title standing at the head of fifty-seven of the psalms. Thus it is evident that not every psalm has the superscription "psalm". But it is this word which has come to be the designation of the whole book.

Thus we see that although the one hundred and fifty units are called in the Scriptures the Book of Psalms, only fifty-seven of them bear the superscription psalm (mizmor) in the Hebrew Old Testament. The title which the Book of Psalms bears in Hebrew is Sepher Tehillim - the Book of Praises. It is this Hebrew word tehillim.... In Hellenistic Greek the corresponding word psalmoi' (from psa'llein = zimeer) is the more common; the Psalm collection is called bi'blos psalmoo'n (Luke 20:42; Acts 1:20) or psaltee'rion, from the name of the instrument (psanteerîn in the Book of Daniel)


"The name of psaltery entered Christian literature in the 3rd century B.C. translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint where, in the Psalms, nebel was translated psalterion. Thus, Nebuchadnezzar's idolatrous ensemble included the Aramic psantria. Notice, also, that the book of Psalms has also become known as the Psalter (or psalterium), from the hymns sung with this harp.

By predestination they call all of Scripture and God IGNORANT because neither in the synagogue or church was He "scholarly" enough to say "SING your songs WITH a harp"?

Job said of the organ players who were probably star worshippers

They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice (make merry) at the sound of the organ. Jb.21:12
Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. Jb 21:14


SO, they take the timbrel and harp and rejoice to the sound of the organ! Jubal HANDLED the organ meaning without authority and in a sexual sense as Eve touched the "tree" rimes with tee hee hee.

The sexual context of the organ is well documented throughout history:

"Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal: these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'." (Quasten)

RECORDED: if a male did that he was "drunk, perverted or just mocking or having fun." And everyone wants their own HAREM of their gods to bring on a sexual-like climax. From the lady who helped bring on lectio-divina the pervue of the witches or Hag of Thessalia.

http://www.piney.com/VineyardIntimacy.html

Everyone wants a worship minister: everyone giggles about the Androgynous Worship leader: everyone wants a worship leader. Sorry: there is no known exception and so Jesus does not even pray for the ECUMENICALS. Isn't that the most amazingly, awesome, exactly mysterous never to be detected?


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Preferences Battle Part B

March 19 2015, 5:12 PM 

If one is a Disciple of Christ or Christian they cannot possibly want to impose THEIR preferences over others with a heavy hand.

Doubtful disputations in Romans 14 denies personal preferences which are the marks of the WEAK in THE FAITH and are prohibited because they do not edify or EDUCATE. A student of Engineering does not want nor is able to impose their preferences.

[linked image]

 
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DCA
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107.142.253.246

Re: Preferences Battle Part B

March 19 2015, 8:50 PM 

It is called 'home field advantage.' If you get caught saying something that may be a bit hypocritical or fabricated, or it just doesn't sound like someone with common sense said it.....well, you can edit.

Well done!

happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Preferences Battle Part B

March 19 2015, 9:44 PM 

The primary definition of a hypocrite is a speaker or one who gives answer. It includes gestures, clapping (brings his own Claque) or singers.

I was a hypocrite along with the "evangelist" when I used to sing "lord send me."

1 There is much to do, there's work on ev'ry hand,
Hark! The cry for help comes ringing through the land;
Jesus calls for reapers, I must active be,
What wilt Thou, O Master? Here am I, send me.

Refrain:
Here am I,
(Here am I, send me, Lord, send me)
Lord, Send me;
(Here am I, send me, Lord, send me)
Here am I,
(Here am I, send me, Lord, send me)
Ready at Thy bidding, Lord, send me.

2 There's a plaintive cry of mourning souls distressed,
And the cry of hearts who seek but find no rest;
These should have my love and tender sympathy,
Ready at Thy bidding, Here am I, send me. [Refrain]

3 There are hung'ring souls who cry aloud for bread,
With the bread of life they're longing to be fed;
Shall they starve and famish while a feast is free?
I must be more faithful, Here am I, send me. [Refrain]

4 There are souls who linger on the brink of woe,
Lord, I must not, cannot bear to let them go;
Let me go and tell them, "Brother, turn and flee,"
Master, I would save them, Here am I send me. [Refrain]

Here is a typical Brain Wash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbSE_aq7naU


 
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DCA
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107.142.253.246

Re: Preferences Battle Part B

March 20 2015, 9:36 PM 

Someone once said "A student of Engineering does not want nor is able to impose their preferences."

Huh??? Ken, that is blatantly and categorically what you have done for >10 years with piney and concernedmembers. You do NOT speak that which is written. You take the Word of God and impose YOUR preferences and opinions on these Scriptures. I thought that only Obama could state such a farce and think people are so gullible. Obviously, he is not.

Man, you have some gall.


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Preferences Battle Part B

March 21 2015, 10:09 AM 

Dave,

There is a colossal difference between exposing and imposing: you know it.

Exposing false teachings is freedom of the press. The ConcernedMembers forum does that. It does not impose anything -- period. It does not have "preferences," either, as it endeavors to "speak where the Bible speaks."

Now, it is the reader who opts to take it or leave it. Or ... REFUTE.

You mentioned Obama. Why don't you liken him to the change agents operating in the brotherhood who are trying to restructure and denominationalize the church--divert and divide?



 
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DCA
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107.142.253.246

Re: Preferences Battle Part B

March 21 2015, 10:15 AM 

Yes, Donnie, concernedmembers DOES have preferences....it has been proven and you and Ken have been refuted....many times.

Opinion does NOT count as fact, unless you can shore it up with Scripture.....which neither of you have done in many cases.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Preferences Battle Part B

March 21 2015, 1:18 PM 

Dave,

Often it is necessary to illustrate. For example, when the Scripture identifies musical idolatry [music is MAJOR and in partnership with dancing], we provide historical evidences and illustrations in order for the reader to grasp its meaning.

Historical evidences, including images of idolatrous worship, that support what the Scripture speaks of are NOT opinions.

I agree that you have refuted. If you say "many times," the number must include the many times you refute the personality or character of the other person, rather than the subject matter.

When you say that "concernedmembers DOES have preferences," you are mistaking "arguments" for "preferences." This is a doctrinal discussion forum -- we all present and debate religious issues.

If you have really studied the Restoration Movement history, you would know that CM is much closer to the RM principles than the change agents [with whom you align] who are busy restructuring the New Testament church and rewriting the RM history.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Preferences Battle Part B

March 21 2015, 2:03 PM 

Heresy in a good sense means "to make a choice." A heretic is a SECTARIAN and gets the right to their PREFERENCES. When the ekklesia assembles it is called a SYNAGOGUE: as synagogue or Church of Christ (the Rock) outlawed "vocal or instrumental rejoicing or rhetoric meaning speaking your own words." That is affirmed in the prophets (my preference) because a church of Christ is built upon the Prophets and Apostles. Jesus had PREFERENCES and affirmed and confirmed ONLY what the Spirit OF Christ defined inclusively and exclusively in the Prophets as well as "Moses" when He prophesied about ANOTHER PROPHET LIKE ME. Eye and Ear witnesses like Peter left their PART for OUR memory and denounced private interpretation or FURTHER EXPOUNDING.

Quoting what Peter and Paul used as the OPPOSITE of the assembly is "quoting what Peter and Paul" referenced as they were guided into ALL truth. That was THEIR preference so it is MY PREFERENCE. It is a bit wacko to think that people "diligently seek" the SECT of Christ without having PREFERENCES. My preferences is to be a disciple of the Egyptian, Greek, Canaanite and Babylonian literature because THEY repeat the same cosmology used by Moses AFTER Israel "veered off to the left" and fell into trinitarian, instrumental, Idolatry and were sentenced to captivity and death WITHOUT REDEMPTION. The Sect of the World, Kosmos or ecumenical for which Jesus does not pray CANNOT confess the written Word.

I belong to the SECT called the WAY: the Way is a narrow, sectarian, exclusive, patternistic ROAD which fools can never find nor STUMBLE INTO even if drunk from NEW WINESKINS.

Knowing that it is fatal not to confess your sins, here it is.

"I CONFESS THAT I HAVE PREFERENCES." Lord, help me, I refuse to give up my preferences. smirk, smile, tee-hee, hee-haw.

If you deny PREFERENCES you cannot be a Disciple or Student where the "synagogue" word is like syllogism where you reach a CONCLUSION.




 
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DCA
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107.142.253.246

Re: Preferences Battle Part B

March 22 2015, 1:48 AM 

I will leave the slander to you and Ken....It seems to be your calling here. You started this whole joke (concernedmembers) by calling out elders by sneaky favor. You didn't have the nerve to go to them personally, as the Scriptures call us to do. No, you would rather broadcast your defiance on the internet for all the world to see. You and Ken will have your day in court, however short it may be.
However if you are caught citing your opinion/preferences as facts and Scripture you will continue to be called on it. It wasn't a mistake. I will always be satisfied with refuting subject matter.
These historical/evidence images of idolatry is nothing less that subtle pornography. Nice rub on trying to sneak in the nude art and make it seem like it is needed to support your opinion.
I say YOUR to you Donnie, because even though it is Ken too, your support him. This website was started out of malice and hate and evil. You can blame it on the elders at Madison and talk all you want about the declining numbers, but the blame goes to you and anyone else who puts their problems here on this evil website. All the problems at Madison should have stayed inhouse. You just didn't think that the Scriptural way of doing things (going to the brother...taking witnesses with you in front of elders, etc.) was good enough for you. Evil begets evil.
You can always solve the problem by deleting this post, as you have deleted and edited many posts of mine in the past.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Preferences Battle Part B

March 22 2015, 7:18 PM 

Dave,

Your [this] post is published unedited. Yes, I have edited your posts -- NOT THE CONTENTS -- when you purposely and defiantly identified yourself as a sports team name or whatever [several times]. But know that as simple as changing from a "no name" ("Anonymous") to "Annie Mouse" will cause this message to show "This message has been edited by...." And that type of editing is alarming to you?

"Back to square one":

(1) I sent a letter to each of the 15 elders at the time [NONE OF WHOM is a current elder] detailing the issues of the day, and there was no response or action taken;

(2) Some of the elders met with me a couple of times -- no action taken;

(3) I had a lengthy conversation on the phone with "the chief" elder at the time--it turned out to be a "friendly" exchange -- no action taken.

It is not my problem if you consider "nude art" [your expression], shown as historical evidence, pornographic.

It is not my problem if you consider historical proof as "opinion."

This "evil website" -- I think I've heard that before. It still has participants. happy.gif


 
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DCA
(no login)
107.142.253.246

Re: Preferences Battle Part B

March 22 2015, 9:08 PM 

These people in Ken's art, without clothes, nude, you consider historical evidence?

Donnie, I asked before about you condoning Ken's soft porn and crude language. Since you condone it, would you not be considered under the same judgment?

Donnie, if you, as you say you did, had a friendly conversation with the chief elder years ago, then how in the world could you ever, ever give yourself and go the way to this website? Again, you are wrong Donnie when you say no action taken. You need proof of ACTION TAKEN??? Proof is this spawn of Satan website concerned members.


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Preferences Battle Part B

March 22 2015, 10:15 PM 

Dave,

These are drawings of "not-real people." Not all engineers are good artists, you know. At times what's "worth a thousand words" is necessary to help clarify a factual statement. I don't know, Dave, but perhaps certain folks would have pictures of real people as their "preference."

Ken is a moderator, too. He is a doctrinal purist and is resourceful -- always ready to provide biblical information and historical evidences. If Ken and I are of the same mind and same judgment (I Cor. 1:10; Phil. 4:2) -- that's good and I have nothing to worry about.

"No action" on the part of the elders who remained (since the others resigned and half of the membership left) simply proved their point: "Get over it; we must move on [with Rick Warren and the Community Church's culture-driven plan to "grow the church" (???)]"

Do you even realize how many mega "churches of Christ" have now become "Community Churches"?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Skhol versus Music: O.E.Payne etal

March 20 2015, 3:58 PM 

ALL of the "proof texts" demanding instrumental music as COMMANDED is available in the book published by O.E.Payne and the Standard Publishing Company. It was used by a "pseudo" Commission on Unity and sent to preachers as part of the "infiltrate and divert" after the NACC because a sectarian division of the Disciples of Christ. The evidence is that Payne collected most of the historic texts using forms of "psallo" from an earlier writer but I don't have it. The use of Psallo was used first in 1878 by the Disciples of Christ as the "Christians" were deserting what became a full denomination in about 1906.

Tom Burges published a partial list but "psallo" never in recorded history meant more than PLUCK or SMITE something with your fingers but NEVER with a plektron or guitar pick. Psallo cannot authorize wind or percussion instruments and so doing so violates the LAW first defined in 1986.

Plutarch on Pericles is listed by both Payne, Burgess and all of the musical sowers of discord. Pericles is quoted from the definition of the SCHOOL and their example USES Alexander the Great trying to seduce a young male whose hairs had been PLUCKED. That is why Paul's command was to keep the ODE and PSALLO in the heart where it cannot be heard. In the heart is a place opposite to in the flesh.

[linked image]

As the MARK, Payne concludes:

What reader can doubt that instrumental music is Scriptural? For who ever heard of "singing with a master touch"?--an expression which perfectly describes skillful playing.

It is to accuse God and all historic scholarship of ignorance foro not saying "sing and play instruments IN the assembly."

If Plutarch is authority to play skillfully he proves that the father reproaches Alexander for playing so skillfully." It is true that psallo is sometimes translated "sing" but Paul used both ODE and PSALLO for the assembly. As Psallo is derived from Apollo (Apollyon) shooting forth singing arrows and shooting forth "love arrows using his lyre" like Alexander, the concept of "shooting forth hymns" is in the literature but the method is DICTO meaning to SPEAK.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

Re: Skhol versus Music: O.E.Payne etal

March 22 2015, 12:06 PM 

Wrong? Concerned Members started concerned members after a member of class recorded the teacher's slip: that they intended to turn the church into a "theater for holy entertainment." Because the members might catch on they had to make them THINK that they were on a train headed to (say) Birmingham but WE gonna switch their cars and take em to Louisville 'cause that's where we gonna take 'em."

The boasted-of 5,000 members grew to 1,000 without help. We will not accuse those who left including all of the elders with slandering the elders.

The "dirty pictures" are what no one will tell you about the PLAY or SPORT word.

The only PREFERENCE for a Christian or Disciple of Christ is to find APT elders commanded to "teach that which has been taught." Not-Apt elders turn into wolves and wolves have the same persona as religious musicians.

MARK: there is no command, example or remote inference of the godly congregation (church, synagogue) ever being called out of their REST to engage in congregational singing with or without instruments. It is not slander to say that those who collect your money and then turn your property into "a theater for holy entertainment" are MARKED since the BEAST is defined-back then- as A New Style of Music or Satyric (cappella) drama."Jesus informs John to call them SORCERERS and they will or are CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

"Philodemus considered it paradoxical that music should be regarded as veneration of the gods while musicians were paid for performing this so-called veneration. Again, Philodemus held as self deceptive the view that music mediated religious ecstasy. He saw the entire condition induced by the noise of cymbals and tambourines as a disturbance of the spirit.

He found it significant that, on the whole, only women and effeminate men fell into this folly.

Accordingly, nothing of value could be attributed to music; it was no more than a slave of the sensation of pleasure, which satisfied much in the same way that food and drink did.


"Now, many a man from the false religions, which are not ashamed of criticising what is noble, will ask: how can there be a feast without carousing and overeating, without the pleasant company of hosts and guests, without quantities of unmixed wine, without richly set tables and highly stacked provisions of everything that pertains to a banquet, without pageantry and jokes,
bantering and merry-making to the accompaniment of flutes and citharas, the sound of drums and cymbals and other effeminate and frivolous music of every king,enkindling unbridled lusts with the help of the sense of hearing. For in and through the same [pleasures] those persons openly seek their joy, for what true joy is their they do not know.


"Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal: these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'." (End of Quasten)




 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.20.116.93

when you want to IMPOSE performance TRUTH no longer counts.

March 22 2015, 7:51 PM 

Tom Burgess repeats O.E.PAYNE who supplied all of the false teaching and still used by men with Phds in New Testament Greek: Even though J. W. McGarvey opposed the instrument he undoubtedly saw the folly and the outcome of adding the anti-instrument opinion as a disfellowshipping law and so stated his position: "I have never proposed to withdraw fellowship from brethren simply because of their use of instrumental music in worship." (The Search for the Ancient Order by West, P. 441.)

http://www.piney.com/Burgess.Pericles.html

People who would deliberately sow discord will have no trouble twisting the truth.

http://www.oldpathsadvocate.org/public/php-scripts/doctrinalIssues/mcgarveyFellowship.php

The latest version appears in Firm Foundation, April 8, 1986. It is an account of an exchange between McGarvey and Jesse P. Sewell in which McGarvey reportedly said,

"Brother Sewell, I want to say something to you, if you'll accept it in the spirit in which I mean it." Sewell told him he'd appreciate anything he had to say to him, and Sewell gave this account of his statement: "You are on the right road, and whatever you do, don't let anybody persuade you that you can successfully combat error by fellowshipping it and going along with it. I have tried. I believed at the start that was the only way to do it. I've never held membership in a congregation that uses instrumental music. I have, however, accepted invitations to preach without distinction between churches that used it and churches that didn't. I've gone along with their papers and magazines and things of that sort. During all these years I have taught the truth as the New Testament teaches it to every young preacher who has passed through the College of the Bible. Yet, I do not know of more than six of those men who are preaching the truth today. It won't work." This was about ten years before McGarvey's death in 1912.

The REAL McGarvey."But he who makes peace with an evil because it is likely to prevail appears to me to love peace more than he loves truth and to be deficient in the courage proper to a soldier of the cross,

while he who refrains from speaking on a subject which to him appears important because others regard it with indifference or with contempt seems to me to esteem the applause of men more highly than the approval of his own conscience. As I do not wish to come under condemnation in any of these particulars, I will speak my mind freely to you and to all who shall take the trouble to read what I write.

That a vast amount of evil has been occasioned by the introduction of instrumental music into Christian worship is undeniable.

Beginning with the first instance of it among us which I can remember that which caused a schism in the church in St. Louis in the year 1869 (Our Note:1851 Midway KY by a liberal over the physical objections of the elder),

its progress has been attended by strife, alienation, and division,
with all their attendant evils, in hundreds of congregations.

Before this it had bred similar evils among Methodist societies and Baptist and Presbyterian churches; for all these bodies in their early days knowing that the practice originated in the Roman Catholic Church, regarded it as a Romish corruption and refused to tolerate it until it was forced upon them by the spirit of innovation which characterized the present century.


IT'S TRUE: you can get an advanced degree in how to LIE.

 
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DCA
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107.142.253.246

Re: when you want to IMPOSE performance TRUTH no longer counts.

March 22 2015, 11:52 PM 

Donnie, you mentioned "Yes, I have edited your posts -- NOT THE CONTENTS -- when you purposely and defiantly identified yourself as a sports team name or whatever [several times].

IF you DENY deleting actual CONTENT (entire posts actually), then who did it? Santa Claus? Donnie, you can't claim to not know what Ken has or hasn't done. Ken wouldn't admit it anyway.

SOMEONE DID and HAS edited/deleted CONTENT...your statement is untrue.

 
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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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