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Tom Brite
(no login)

Re: Max Lucado and the Community Church

March 29 2015, 12:38 AM 

Max was raised in the Church of Christ in Andrews, Texas. He got an undergraduate and Masters degree from ACU. Attendance at Oak Hills continues to grow at the Oak Hills campuses, now around 10,000 per week. the main campus has pretty much topped out due to space limitations with one Saturday evening service and three Sunday morning services (one acapella) being pretty much packed in a 1600 seat auditorium. The other campuses continue to grow as well.

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Max Lucado and the Community Church

March 29 2015, 3:22 AM 

Here's Rick! (Warren: Saddleback Community Church, CA)

Here's Bill! (Hybels: Willow Creek Community Church, IL)

Here's Joel! (Osteen: Lakewood Church, TX)

Here's Max! (Lucado: Oak Hills [Community] Church, TX)

Source: Mega Church Statistics

Lakewood Church----------------------Joel Osteen-------TX-----43,500
LifeChurch---------------------------Craig Groeschel---OK-----26,776
Fellowship Church--------------------Ed Young, Jr.-----TX-----24,000
Willow Creek Community Church--------Bill Hybels-------IL-----23,400
North Point Community Church---------Andy Stanley------GA-----23,377
Second Baptist Church----------------Edwin Young-------TX-----22,723
Saddleback Valley Community Church---Rick Warren-------CA-----22,418
West Angeles Church of God in Christ-Charles Blake-----CA-----20,000
Southeast Christian Church-----------Dave Stone--------KY-----17,261

............ some 80 mega churches in between .........

Community Bible Church-(San Antonio)-Robert Emmitt-----TX-----12,646
Cornerstone Church-----(San Antonio)-John Hagee--------TX-----10,000
Oak Hills Church-------(San Antonio)-Max Lucado--------TX------8,356

............ more mega churches following..............


Source: Hartford Institute for Religion Research
Date Verified: 1.1.2014
A megachurch typically is a term that refers to a church with more than 2,000 weekly attendees. Catholic churches are usually not considered mega churches. Mega churches have drawn a lot of criticism for their focus on entertainment and drawing people away from smaller churches and tax exempt status. The current largest megachurch in the world is South Korea’s Yoido Full Gospel Church, with more than 830,000 members.

The research group will probably update Lucado's Church stats soon.

If all three Community Churches in San Antonio, TX merged, including Oak Hills Church, they would be the second largest megachurch in the U.S.--next to Joel Osteen's Church.

Thanks for the report, Tom.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Stephen Johnson ACU: Sectarian Instrumental Music ANTI SCHOOL

March 28 2015, 9:14 PM 

And we don't have a single picture of Jesus: that would be idolatry. A Baptist publishing house claim that they asked Max to remove the name of "Christ" and other things.

These people have no trouble of repudiating the Biblical Text: the Just Jesus proposal by one of Max's missionaries says that we should reject everything but JUST JESUS. They do not know that Paul didn't decide to JUST PREACH JESUS but to preach Jesus as a SUFFERING SERVANT which he proposed to KNOW. Paul and Jesus taught and exampled the condition of the ONLY position Jesus gave to a public proclaimer: the evangelists with a GO button:

2Cor. 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2Cor. 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
2Cor. 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
2Cor. 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Cor. 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Cor. 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
2Cor. 6:7 By the WORD (regulative principle0 of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
2Cor. 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
2Cor. 6:9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
2Cor. 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Here are some ABSOLUTE commands: I have noted that Paul in 1 Corinthians 1 fulfilling Christ in Isaiah 33 saying there WILL NOT BE "podiums" or "takers of shekals" when Messiah comes.

[linked image]

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Max Lucado's Baptism: In Between Important and Unimportant

March 29 2015, 1:47 AM 


Max Lucado Concerning Baptism:

If you have never been baptized in any form, you will need to “demonstrate your devotion” by baptism in order to be a member at Oak Hills. ...

If you choose not to be immersed at this time, we still welcome you as a member. ...

Our danger is to swing to one of two extremes: we make baptism either too important or too unimportant. Either we deify it or we trivialize it. One can see baptism as the essence of the gospel or as irrelevant to the gospel. Both sides are equally perilous. One person says, “I am saved because I was baptized.” The other says, “I am saved so I don’t need to be baptized.” The challenge is to let the pendulum stop somewhere between the two viewpoints.
[emph. mine, d.c.]

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Destroy Neo-Nazism
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Max Lucado Creed

March 30 2015, 5:14 PM 

Max says that you believe, repent, confess and are baptized as THE initial step of the faithful believer.

Max confessed that if he changed he would become a baptist in the Calvinist sense: this says that you MUST not do anything on your own--even believe--because that would spook the Grace of God. This was one of the issues refuted by the early restoration leaders--even ex Calvinists.

In short: if God wants you, He will SAVE you and that must be evidenced by some supernatural sign. Even "scholars" claim that they are predestinated and NOTHING can change that. They must have had a sign which could be a gas pain. If they devote themselves or their bodies and talent to a "holy place" Paul would say that you have been athemanated: you cannot be redeemed and must be burned. Truly predestinated.

Max Lucado Asserts:

"I believe in baptism. Jesus was baptized. The Bible teaches baptism. I just don't believe that baptism saves you. I believe that Jesus Christ saves us. And baptism is one of those ways we celebrate our salvation. It's really the INITIAL step of the faithful believer."

"I really believe in faith. Jesus believed. The Bible teaches faith. I just don't believe faith saves you. I believe Jesus Christ saves us. And faith is one of those ways we celebrate our salvation our salvation. It's really the INITIAL step of the faithful believer."

"I really believe in repentance. The Bible teaches repentance. I just don't believe repentance saves you. I believe Jesus Christ saves us. And repentance is one of those ways we celebrate our salvation It's really the INITIAL step of the faithful believer."

"I really believe in confession. Jesus confessed. The Bible teaches confession. I just don't believe confession saves you. I believe Jesus Christ saves us. And confession is one of those ways we celebrate our salvation It's really the INITIAL step of the faithful believer.

Scripture refutes each statement: You might fill in some blanks.

That is evidence, proof that God sends STRONG DELUSIONS to those who refuse to SPEAK (or write) that which is written. Don't be surprised: when God pours out his wrath He sends JESTERS or BUFFOONS which are always more popular than truth seekers.

The WRATH Paul warned about is the Greek ORGE or ORGY. An orgy is singing, playing, clapping, dancing (gyrating around the podium). The LITTLE FLOCK will see this and be repulsed.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Mar 30, 2015 5:16 PM

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This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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