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You Ever Wonder Why??? (Why Jesus was called God in Isaiah?)

April 9 2015 at 9:27 AM
DCA  (no login)
from IP address 107.142.253.246

Why Jesus was called God in Isaiah?
Isaiah 9 KJV
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Not just The Might God, but Father also....

Revelation
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

John 20
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.


Lastly, even His Wonderful Name says it all....
Matthew 1
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

God with us.

Try as you may.....


=====================================

Dave,

The original title of this thread remains the same: "You Ever Wonder Why???" Without editing the original message, I would like to append the first statement in your initial post to the title [which is]: "Why Jesus was called God in Isaiah?"

I think this title is what you had in mind for the discussion: "You Ever Wonder Why??? (Why Jesus was called God in Isaiah?)


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 23.127.32.146 on Oct 11, 2015 11:27 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 11:28 AM 

Is. 9:5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.

Is. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his NAME SHALL BE CALLED Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


It is so easy to call JEHOVAH stupid: why wouldn't the Spirit OF Christ say that JESUS WILL BE ONE OF THE JEHOVAH PEOPLE? The Spirit OF Christ did not say that Hezekiah and then Jesus WOULD be Jehovah-God. He will be CALLED

h8034. shem, shame; a primitive word (perhaps rather from 7760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position; compare 8064); an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality; by implication honor, authority, character:—+ base, (in-)fame(-ous), named(-d), renown, report.

God is not Jehovah but:
h410. lEa }el, ale; shortened from 352; strength; as adjective, mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity):—God (god), x goodly, x great, idol, might(-y one), power, strong. Compare names in “-el.”

god, god-like one, mighty one
mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
angels
god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
God, the one true God, Jehovah
mighty things in nature
strength, power

Nebuchadnezzar Ezekiel 31:11 is the TREE in Eden: make room for figurative speech. Messiah will also be called the BRANCH after the TREE has been cut down.
There are MANY Elohim (gods) but there is only ONE Lord (Jehovah).

Jesus will be the IMAGE of God the Father and He will be the Word of God articulated and He will be the only "father" anyone would ever see in contrast to the pagan triads.

1Cor. 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
2Cor. 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Col. 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col. 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col. 1:15 Who is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

 
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DCA
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107.142.253.246

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 11:50 AM 

Hey ken, In Isaiah 9, was Christ mentioned as a mighty god, or "The Mighty God?"

SPEAK THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN.....and keep opinions out of it.

When the author mentions THE Might God is he speaking of singular or plural?

SPEAK THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 12:09 PM 

He is called the Mighty Elohim: NOT Mighty Jehovah.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

In Psalms gods is Elohiym.

Psa. 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

The MOST HIGH is
5945. elyown, el-yone´; from 5927 [Alah]; an elevation, i.e. (adj.) lofty (compar.); as title, the Supreme:—(Most, on) high(-er, -est), upper(-most).

 
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Just Layman
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108.230.196.85

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 11:33 AM 



But wait....'""Ken""' says it is not possible to be the son and be God also!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 12:02 PM 

Note that LORD is Jehovah-God in Hebrew but it is Kurios in Greek. Jesus of Nazareth is a LORD person and not a GOD person. Jesus was not born LORD but God gave Him that office: He is the only IMAGE of God available to alive people.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God [Theos] hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
both Lord [Kurios] and Christ [Messiah].


Rom. 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth
glorify GOD [Theos],
even the Father of our Lord [kurios] Jesus Christ.

1Cor. 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

1Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but ONE GOD [Theos] the Father, OF whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord [Kurios] Jesus Christ, BY whom are all things, and we by him


Jesus is LORD and god in the ELOHIM or ruler sense but He is NOT the ONE GOD THE FATHER. Repeat this:

There is ONE GOD THE FATHER. Jesus is the IMAGE of the Father but Jesus is LORD and not the father. Sons are always created by their fathers.

LU trinitarians say that
there is ONE God the Father
There is ONE God Jesus
There is ONE God the Holy Spirit.

1+1+1 = 3 but they THREE are one in that they always AGREE with one another. John says that if you deny the FATHER and the SON you are ANTI-Christs.

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the MAN Christ Jesus;



 
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DCA
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107.142.253.246

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 12:33 PM 

"1+1+1 = 3 but they THREE are one in that they always AGREE with one another. John says that if you deny the FATHER and the SON you are ANTI-Christs."

So, you are saying that "God in Three Persons, blessed (leave out the Trinity if you can't stomach it)"

You are saying the same thing. You said there "THREE are one"

Yes, they always agree with one another.

I Timothy 3
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen
..."

God manifest in the flesh

Colossians 2
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

What does Godhead mean.....anything like what Ken called "THREE are one," or God in three persons? Three are one, God being ONE, therefore in three. Persons is going to get me in trouble again, because Donnie wants PERSONS to sound human.

I know Donnie doesn't like "persons" nor "Trinity." Well, if nothing else it gives him ammo for his Catholicism slander of me.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 4:37 PM 

Notice that I posted what Lipscomb University teaches contrary to all historic writers who use "trinity" or the restoration leaders and preachers before the universities were confiscated.

Lipscomb Universities trinitarians say that
there is ONE God the Father
There is ONE God Jesus
There is ONE God the Holy Spirit.

1+1+1 = 3 but they THREE are one in that they always AGREE with one another. John says that if you deny the FATHER and the SON you are ANTI-Christs.


THAT IS THE LU DOGMA SUPPORTED BY A NUMBER OF VOCAL PREACHERS.

There are several TRUMP passages which must not be changed when passages are misunderstood or used deliberately to defend the historic Catholic trinity which is father, mother, son.

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the MAN Christ Jesus;


Godhead in the trinity sense is pictured as ONE being with three heads. The word means "Divine Nature." Believers also have the Divine Nature but they are not Jehovahs.

[linked image]

Saying that God was manifest in the flesh means that Jesus was the "image" of God. Again, giving God credit, He could have said that GOD BECAME A HUMAN.

Phaneroo means to reveal or make clear but not to APPEAR as flesh

mănĭfesto to make public, discover, show clearly, exhibit, manifest

[linked image]

I believe in monotheism: there is ONE GOD IN ONE DIVINE BEING. Trinitarians defines the tri nature just as Jesus does:

God the Father thinks or conceives.
God the Father breathes (spirit or inspiration)
The Man Jesus Christ as SON articulates the WORDS of God who IS the Word or regulative principle.

Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Apr 9, 2015 4:46 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 7:06 PM 

Here is the Mormon trinity. I believe that they say that Jesus is the god of THIS earth and you can be god over yours and that is why literal or celestial marriages are required unless you want an earth to yourself. A Mormon discusses John Mark Hicks model:

[linked image]

 
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Bill
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74.179.205.97

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 9:01 PM 

Thank goodness we don't subscribe to the "Mormon Trinity," since we are not Mormons. We subscribe to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as mentioned in Matt. 28:19 and that are three different manifestations of ONE GOD.

 
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Just Layman
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108.230.196.85

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 12:40 PM 



Ken, I'm not understanding much of what you are posting on this subject. It is most likely me but it could also be your intentions?

 
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Bill
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74.179.205.97

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 12:23 PM 

That God cannot be God and also be the Son is puny, human thinking. It limits God's infinite capacity. Likewise, saying that because physical man cannot detach his spirit from himself to be a separate entity, then neither can omnipotent God detach His Holy Spirit from Himself to be a separate entity is puny, human thinking. If God were not able to manifest Himself as God as well as the Son as well as the Holy Ghost as three separate entities in ONE BEING, then Jesus never would have mentioned the three separate entities of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matt. 28:19. Man has limited possibilities, but with God, ALL THINGS are possible.

Remember, Jesus instructed His disciples that he who had seen Him had seen the Father, and that He and the Father were one. God sent Himself to earth in the form of the man Jesus, yet God was in heaven at the same time. Therefore, God, Jesus, and yes, the Holy Spirit, are one and the same, just different manifestations of the SAME entity.

 
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DCA
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107.18.89.157

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 9 2015, 9:53 PM 

Acts 2
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Yes, God made the Word/Logos that was God in the beginning to be Jesus in the flesh. That is not under debate.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 17
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus is stating that as stated in John.....He was with God before the world began

John 17
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Not....they WERE one.....but they ARE one

On that last verse, tell Donnie about our 'Speak that which is written'. He doesn't want to take it literal. He believes that they were ONE in heart. Kind of like Obama when he doesn't believe that homosexuality is really a sin because that it might not be literal.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 10 2015, 1:14 PM 

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Yes, that is very clear: All of the Apostles were really just ONE Apostle.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Rubel Shelly and the Pagan LOGOS

April 10 2015, 1:53 PM 

I have posted Rubel Shelly's sermon on the LOGOS.

http://www.piney.com/RSLogos.html

The Logos can never be a people except in the New Hermeneutics. The LOGOS is called the REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE and it is exercised by God as the WORD as the ANTITHESIS of the ANTI-Christians who claim that God ARTICULATES with them.

In ALL of the original writings on TRIAD, the SON of God is the WORD of God. Jesus was not with God even when God spoke by the SPIRIT OF CHRIST in the abostles: in these LAST days God the WORD speaks through Jesus His SON. We are SONS (disciples) only when we teach and obey the LOGOS of the FATHER (teacher)

LOGOS is the opposite of personal experiences, opinion, rhetoric, singing, poetry, playing instruments, acting or dancing. When WE speak the WORDS of God WE participate in the glory of God in all that He has done. In the same we we are PROPHESYING when we speak that which is INSPIRED.

Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:


H. BAMFORT PARKS NOTES the common PAGAN views Scriptures REPUDIATE and assign only to God and His articulated WORDS which are never "people" -- in my rational mind

Among pagans, words were not for information but for controlling the forces of the universe. If you had "charisma" or possessed irrational, emotional or sexual abnormalities. They would free you from PRODUCTIVE work and support you to control the "gods".

"They know the sounds words and gestures by which these forces are put in motion, and not content with using them for their own benefit they also teach their worshippers the art of employing them.

Thot formed no exception to this rule. He was the lord of the voice, master of words and books, possessor and inventor of those magic writings which nothing in heaven, on earth or in hades can withstand.

He had discovered the incantations which evoke and CONTROL the gods; he had transcribed the texts and noted the melodies of these incantations; he recited them with that true intonation which renders them all powerful, and every one, whether god or man to whom he imparted them, and whose voice he made true became like himself the master of the universe.


"Praise singers" ALWAYS claim the power to control the gods: that defines them as witches or sorcerers because their words evoke the false "spirits": they are the world's first professionals.

Note again that the ONE GOD THE FATHER breathed (spirit) and Jesus was the lips or "double edged sword" when He articulated them. ALL may be ONE only when the speak that which the FATHER revealed to and through Jesus Christ. The MARK of articulating on the Fathers (Teacher) Words is that you will be hated, despised, and people will VIOLATE and repudiate the LOGOS by "speaking their own words."


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Apr 10, 2015 2:04 PM


 
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Bill
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74.179.205.97

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 10 2015, 2:03 PM 

Ken forgets that 12 physical men cannot be one physical apostle. Yet God, being spiritual and omnipotent, can be one and the same with Jesus, whether on earth or in heaven, and with the Holy Spirit as well. Ken keeps forgetting that with God, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.

 
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Bill
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74.179.205.97

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 10 2015, 2:20 PM 

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5).

This is just one of a number of verses that show Jesus, as The Word, was not only with God, but that Jesus was also God, even before God created the world. To say, as some do, that "Jesus became Jesus" in the world is deliberate satire that denies what the New Testament teaches, that God and Jesus are one and the same, just different manifestations of ONE ETERNAL GOD.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

September 6 2015, 7:49 PM 

another test

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: You Ever Wonder Why???

April 10 2015, 1:57 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

God cannot lie: He says that He, Jehovah, is the ONLY God.

April 10 2015, 2:23 PM 

God cannot lie.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;


Jesus the SPIRIT claimed to guide Paul into all truth.
Paul defined GOD and then defined Jesus as the Christ.
Paul was "one" in speaking only what He heard and Paul did not define Jesus as a GOD PERSON. Christ means anointed as the Messiah. Why would ONE GOD anoint ANOTHER God or even anoint HIMSELF?

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;


All things were before the foundation of the World in God's mind Who does not punch a time clock.

Titus 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace,
from God [Theos] the Father
and the Lord [kurios] Jesus Christ our Saviour.


God gives ALL of the power vested in the always-pagan father, spirit (mother) and son to the MEN JESUS CHRIST. Jesus becomes our Saviour by speaking ONLY what He heard from the Father: this makes father and son one.

1Cor. 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;

and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Jesus is a KURIOS person or ruler: kurios makes him the lord of the vineyard but not the OWNER of the vineyard. Paul guided by Christ in Spirit DENIES that Jesus as one of the three God persons.

God cannot lie: there is just ONE GOD THE FATHER: you claim that God is an idiot by saying that He FAILED TO SAY "there is one god: father, son and spirit." Claiming God is an idiot is dangerous but Purpose-Driven.




 
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There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

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They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

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At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

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The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

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Here is the list of players;

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2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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