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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

A Troublesome Statement

April 15 2015, 12:17 AM 

"'God the Son' and 'the Son of God' do not mix."

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.205.8

With God, All Things Are Possible

April 15 2015, 9:01 AM 

They mix for me. I'm so sorry they don't mix for you.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

For God the Father Sent Himself (Not His Son)?

April 15 2015, 11:22 AM 

I'm not surprised. I'm sure you think this way: "My father is/was I; I am/was my father" or some other relationship imaginable.

Thing is YOU are making it possible for the only begotten Son of God to send his Father to this world -- that mixes well for you.

 
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Bill
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74.179.205.8

Re: For God the Father Sent Himself (Not His Son)?

April 15 2015, 12:26 PM 

Donnie, even though we don't always agree, I trust that the sun will rise tomorrow on both of us, that the world will go on as usual.

BTW, do you have a favorite song that you listen to or sing that soothes you when people don't agree with you? happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: For God the Father Sent Himself (Not His Son)?

April 15 2015, 1:13 PM 

Bill, thanks for info about the sun ... and the world.

BTW, I have lots of favorite songs, one of which is "I Need Thee Every Hour." I sing it, though, not because "people don't agree with me." Definitely not because Bill disagrees with me.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: For God the Father Sent Himself (Not His Son)?

April 16 2015, 3:46 PM 

[... bumped for paging only] happy.gif

 
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DCA
(no login)
107.142.253.246

Re: 'God with us'

April 15 2015, 10:13 AM 

Donnie,
Per this past post of yours, this is positive proof that you do not want to accept that you could be wrong and admit it. Jesus would never want to be called God the Son. He wanted the name given to Him, which is Jesus, Emanuel, the Son of God. He was always pleased/proud to be called and KNOWN as the Son of God.

Would a Jr want to be called Sr?

The fact is John 1 Jesus is given the same status as God whether you accept it or not. The name(s) is just your cloak and dagger of the situation. No, Jesus wasn't Jesus before He came to earth, but the Word/Logos eventually became Jesus....on earth....in the flesh....but as John 1 states unequivocally.....is God. If He WAS God, then He IS God. Again, it doesn't even give way to an argument. It is stated to be so, and IS SO.
Just as any proud father, here on earth, is so proud to lay on his son all the inheritance. all the glory of himself, so is God giving to the Son.
I hate to agree with Bill, but the point is well made....God manifested Himself in His Son, Jesus, in the flesh, here on earth. For you to deny this, is also to say that God simple can't do it, an does not have the power to do anything He wishes.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

DCA: 'Jesus would never want to be called God the Son'

April 15 2015, 12:21 PM 

Dave,

The Trinity Creed says:

1) God the Father
2) God the Son
3) God the Holy Spirit


So, you disagree with that part of the Trinity Creed (and Bill) regarding "God the Son"? Disagreeing with that part of the Creed may be a good thing -- the Scripture would consider it work-in-progress.

In your initial post, you commented: "Not just The Might[y] God, but Father also...." There's an equation in that comment: "Father = Son." Do you still subscribe to that equation? But now you seem to be making a distinction between "Father" and "Son." Please clarify your position.

This is correct: that it was the Word/LOGOS (NOT God the Father) which became flesh. Remember the many scriptures stating that there is ONLY ONE GOD, THE FATHER. That eliminates all others.

 
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DCA
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107.142.253.246

Smoke to Hide the Facts

April 15 2015, 1:45 PM 

Isaiah 9 KJV
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

If you have a problem with Jesus being called Father ("The everlasting Father), then take it up with God.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Truth Cannot Be Hidden About 'God the Father' and 'the Son of God'

April 15 2015, 2:56 PM 

Dave,

I have no problem with the prophesied Messian's "name" being "called": "Wonderful, Counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace."

After all, Jesus said, "... All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Given by Whom? A simple deduction or inference would be that the "source" and the "recipient" are not the same. If the recipient already had it to begin with, there would be no point in him him being given or receiving that power. Therefore: "the mighty God" -- a NAME because of his role: with the POWER given to him by the ONLY ONE GOD THE FATHER.

It's the same truth about God the Father sending His only begotten Son to this world. The process is simply not interchangeable.

"The everlasting Father" -- a name by which the prophesied Messiah is/was to be "called." Adam was also "father" of the human race. But Adam died. Adam's life as a father was not eternal or everlasting. The resurrection of Jesus (the second Adam) proves his eternity. Jesus lives FOREVER. The keyword in that expression is "eternal" or "everlasting" -- that's not an exchange of role or personae between: (1) God the Father and (2) the Son of God.

 
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Bill
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74.179.205.8

Re: Smoke to Hide the Facts

April 15 2015, 3:01 PM 

The Bible doesn't necessarily have to say the exact words, "Jesus is also God" or "God is also Jesus" or "Jesus is identical with God" for Jesus to be God. There are plenty of passages with that implication, such as the passage Dave cited, Isaiah 9:6. Emmanuel, meaning "God with us" in Matt. 1:23 is another passage. You just have to be receptive to what the Bible says to know that Jesus as the Word is also God.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Smoke to Hide the Facts

April 15 2015, 3:14 PM 

JESUS SAYS by inspiration that the Man Jesus of Nazareth is the IMAGE of God and not the very Being.

Yes, I know the scholarly Ropa Dopa: Scripture says that Jesus is the IMAGE OF GOD but, hey, "that don't say that Jesus is NOT the REAL god."

More below for readers.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.205.8

Argue, Argue, Argue

April 15 2015, 3:44 PM 

I'm glad you all have so much time on your hands to continue this argument that doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Similar arguments about other topics usually end up the same way. If this were a salvation issue, it might be worth the time, but I really don't think our salvation depends on this particular argument. I think it IS important, however, to recognize that since Matt. 28:19 mentions Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then they EXIST. The form in which they exist is immaterial.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Argue, Argue, Argue

April 15 2015, 3:59 PM 

I've heard that "admonition" before from the same source: it happens when specific questions cannot be answered. Essentially stating: Stop the argument -- it's "not a salvation issue" or "irrelevant" or "immaterial." Yet, strangely, Bill continues to participate in the discussion ("argument" he says). I could be wrong about him not having the desire to participate in the "argument." Let's observe below.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.205.8

Re: DCA: 'Jesus would never want to be called God the Son'

April 15 2015, 4:24 PM 

Donnie, we note that your posts often include quite a number of embellishments, such as:

-- Words and phrases in all caps
-- Words and phrases underlined
-- Words and phrases in boldface
-- Words and phrases in multiple colors

Is it barely possible that your zeal for embellishments serves two purposes...

(1) As eye candy to impress and entertain readers?
(2) As devices designed to give the appearance of credibility to your arguments?

happy.gif

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.205.8

Re: Argue, Argue, Argue

April 15 2015, 4:47 PM 

Oh by all means, continue your endless arguments, Donnie. I certainly didn't tell you to "stop." I just wanted to remind you that the few participants here have stuck to their arguments completely, so nothing has changed. Of course, we can't say what the readers are thinking. By endlessly arguing, they'll see different sides and will make up their own minds, although I'm sure that most of them made up their minds long ago. It's really disappointing, though, that hardly any steady readers post anything here anymore. Got any ideas why they don't? happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: DCA: 'Jesus would never want to be called God the Son'

April 15 2015, 4:52 PM 

Bill, none of the above.

They're all for emphases. [Oops, it's not in yellow.]

There are closed-minded folks who have the tendency to "speed-read" technicalities. Just hoping that folks are paying attention to details when generalities do not work -- something similar to diagramming of sentences [perhaps your specialty] or something similar to flowcharting of logic in the IT world where anomalies (bugs) are removed from a faulty program.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Argue, Argue, Argue

April 15 2015, 5:03 PM 

My point proven. You are not giving up "arguing."

Bill, there's nothing for you to worry about. The discussion will continue as usual.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Quoting Scripture is FACTS: denying facts is ARGUING against God.

April 15 2015, 5:08 PM 

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves,
.....but Christ Jesus the Lord [Kurios];
.....and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

2Cor. 4:6 For God [One Theos],
.....who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,
.....hath shined in our hearts,
to give the light
.....of the knowledge of the glory of God
.....in the face of Jesus Christ.


The ONE GOD THE FATHER commands by breathing (spirit) and Jesus the SON speaks ONLY what God inspires Him to Say. God is the only COMMANDER and Jesus as OUR example is the COMMANDEE.

People just love to OPINE in contradiction to the WORD. They, says Jesus, are Purpose Driven along with the masses or ecumenical people OF the adorning World.

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE God,
.....and ONE mediator BETWEEN God and men,
.....the MAN Christ Jesus;


John who recorded Jesus to say that I will come to you as the Comforter in Spirit form also said that the Comforter bears the NAME of "Jesus Christ the Righteous" spoke of ONE GOD the Father and ONE LORD Jesus. Those who deny that ONE AND ONLY ALMIGHTY and Jesus as LORD whom manifested or made God know through the spoken WORD are ANTICHRISTS. That is because they deny that CHRIST (not a god word) as the promised messiah came FULLY IN THE FLESH.





 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Argue, Argue, Argue

April 15 2015, 5:15 PM 

Bold is a last-gasp effort to SHOUT OUT the recorded text so that those who fight against God will have no excuse.

Jesus doesn't pray for those OF THE WORLD and He said that He HIDES from the professional clergy: the truth is hidden in CLEAR BOLD TEXT and faith grows when you hear people who SHOUT OUT that Speaking the Text for your learning REALLY MEANS "Sing anything BUT the text for your amusement" and that is the meaning of SORCERY: the LOCUSTS or muses put you to sleep in the midday sun and then WHAMO give you the sting of death.




 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

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Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

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At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

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The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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