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Donnie Cruz
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Re: You Ever Wonder Why??? (Why Jesus was called God in Isaiah?)

December 6 2015, 7:42 PM 

Trinitarians quote scriptures to desperately prove that Jesus is God, including and especially passages that are Trinity-influenced in translation. One may ask -- how can translations be Trinity-influenced? Is that possible? Yes, of course:

(1) There were the manuscripts (paganism pre-dates the NT manuscripts).
(2) The pagan-influenced, Catholic-invented Trinity doctrine is dated around the 4th century.
(3) Translations: The King James Version of 1611, etc. Trinitarians were alive then!!!

So, it is factual that some of the passages have been translated in that manner: Trinity-influenced.

Bill quotes the same scriptures that Trinitarian followers quote -- NONE (not a single one) of them proves that Jesus is God. So, Bill, get the brainwashing out of your system. At least consider and review and study and analyze the scriptures presented to you -- they are straightforward and even human explanation is totally unnecessary.

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Donnie Cruz
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Re: You Ever Wonder Why??? (Why Jesus was called God in Isaiah?)

December 2 2015, 1:28 AM 

An accurate definition of "rhetoric."

Of all folks, Bill the educator ignores those simple but significant words: of ... in ... the ... and -- an excellent way of distorting the truth and context.

I was responding to Ken's post. [d.c.]

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Dec 2, 2015 2:01 AM

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Ken Sublett
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Rhetoric BFP: Before False Preachers

December 2 2015, 2:57 PM 

Chris Seidman was an early discorder using the NACC's White Paper to claim that God commanded the use of instruments in what He defines as A School of the Word. LU and other once-christian universities bring in Chris who apparently is an expert RHETORICIAN: rhetoricians, singers and instrument players were the WISE or SOPHIST Jesus said that God HIDES from. Jesus defined the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites in Isaiah 29 and Ezekiel 33 as speakers for hire, singers or instrument players: The Spirit OF Christ listed them as the mark of those never intending to Speak the Word nor those who intended to obey what they heard. In the view of Paul to the Corinthians "fools love to be fooled and fleeced" by those he called Super-Apostles--a claim of the Missional Church.

We have noted--for readers-disciples--that Jesus EMPOWERED His Little Flock or the SECT that is called the WAY. They are defined as Lost Spirits who are NOT OF the World and Jesus was not OF the World and by definition NONE of those who walk in His Way, Road or Pattern will NOT be OF this world.

Jude 1 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for THE FAITH which was once delivered unto the saints.

It is not OF THE FAITH for our instruction if it is not in the Prophets and Apostles as Christ's prophetic types and Jesus making these prophecies more certain. They are NOT subject to private interpretation of FURTHER EXPOUNDING by RHETORICIANS: self-speaking, singing, playing instruments, acting, dancing, shouting, clapping, hugging or kissing.

Those who failed at earlier patterns to TRANSISTION the historic Assembly of Christ into the Instrumental Sect, now boast about infiltrating and diverting the group bought by the olden grey-hairs into A THEATER FOR HOLY ENTERTAINMENT. The Kairos Church Planting Plot defended by the Unholy trinity of universities is Hermes from whom they get their LOGOS and their New Hermeneutic. These men are not predestined by random selection but they like the race of Vipers or the Crooked Race (skolion singers) were OF the World. Those spending fortunes on schools of The Christian WORLD view may not grasp that disciples are not OF the World, Kosmos or the Ecumenical of the rich and infamous.

Jude 2 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last TIME KAIROS, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

KAIROS of the planting of false satellite or daughter churches means "The right time to MOUNT AN ATTACK."

Jude 3 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Instrumental-Trinitarian Idolatry at Mount Sinai where their name was removed from the Book of Life.

Affirmed by the Prophets and Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 and Romans 10

Jude 4 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jude 5 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 6 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Bill has lived his long life and never knew anyone who didn't interpret and teach Holy Scriptures based on modern perversion of Words or not comformable to MODERN likes and dislikes because CULTURE CHANGES and so they change because they are OF the Culture. The Little Flocks are still out there focused on being Schools of the Word.

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This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Dec 2, 2015 3:12 PM

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Rhetoric BFP: Before False Preachers

December 2 2015, 3:55 PM 

Children attending Synagogue School--especially boys--knew what should be obvious but is not at any level of "scholarship." That is why men are willing to commit wholesale discord by defining ONE word based on how the other theologians define it.

"On a frequent basis we attach a meaning of a word from the Bible based on our own language and culture to a word that is not the meaning of the Hebrew word behind the translation.

This is often a result of using our modern western thinking process for interpreting the Biblical text. For proper interpretation of the Bible it is essential that we take our definitions for words from an Ancient Hebraic perspective. [Not modern rabbi invading churches]

Our modern western minds often work with words that are purely abstract or mental while the Hebrew's vocabulary was filled with words that painted pictures of concrete concepts. By reading the Biblical text with a proper Hebrew vocabulary the text comes to life revealing the authors intended meaning.

We do NOT love with our liver!! Parallelism is THE USUAL way of writing Scripture in word pictures so that we CANNOT pervert it unless we are Purpose Driven to HIDE the truth from YOUR YOUTH.

Theologians call Churches of Christ HISTORYLESS because they didn't keep up with the changing of word meanings or the culture EVOLVED in the words of Shelly so that our eyes and background cannot understand a document Jesus held in His hands. However, WE can explain to you what YOUR eyes and brain lost when we slipped into the postmodern era of most if not all of those universities "selling learning at retail" or corrupting the Word.

Godhead does not contrary to the scholarly documents and sermons mean a three-headed god three-in-one. The word means DIVINE NATURE. We can have the nature of God IF we are disciples but WE would not be the NAMELESS Holy (wholly) Spirit MIND of the Universe. Only reckless would try to make that ALMIGHTY live inside the MAN Jesus who was MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ (not god words) BY the ONE GOD THE FATHER. Again, rehearse and not that PAGAN TRIADS are made up of Father, Mother, and infant evil son. To be a "god" in that sense the Father God must have sex with a mortal woman: She (Catholics) would become the Mother of Gods and beasts as would her son.

AS ANTITHESIS: ALL of the authority of Father, spirit (mother) and son are vested in and as the IMAGE of One God the Father. Father-breath-word are the language of INSTRUCTION similar to the work of a human father instructing his son.

1Tim. 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
2Tim. 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
Philem. 10 I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds:

Contrary to the Feminist training Female Preachers, Galatians did not say that:

There is BOTH male and female but NEITHER male nor female: we have ONE FATHER who is our SOLE TEACHER when we SPEAK that which is written to be PREACHED by being READ for information and not entertainment.

We assemble and show forth or PREACH the death of Jesus. For MOST people with no performing lusts that lets JESUS be the teacher when APT elders teach that which HAS been taught.

Male and female sit down and keep silence while that WORD is READ: "that we might all be SAFE and COME TO A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. If that is not a pattern then you are OF THE WORLD and need to build ziggurats and enslave people.

We "use one mind and one mouth" to speak "that which is written for out LEARNING" or "Scripture for out COMFORT."

That is the pattern for SPEAKING THE SAME THINGS and mutually confessing Jesus Christ as SOLE TEACHER and that we have NOTHING to the cross to bring other than the mind or spirit of a DISCIPLE. For goodness sake, a DISCIPLE is a student of Christ they do not (by definition) attend religious OBSERVATIONS because Jesus says that the Kingdom will NOT be there.

To MARK that for easy avoidance or acceptance, The Spirit Christ in Ephesians 4 did not give a dole or role for cunning craftsmen or sophists: rhetoricians, singers or instrument players. That was because this DIVERSITY was the Christ Instructed MARK of those LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

Religious music is truly HISTORY-LESS except for those who "set their lies to melodies to deceive the simple minded." Classical writers not that educated people wanted to READ THE ORIGINALS.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Dec 2, 2015 4:09 PM

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Ken Sublett
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Re: You Ever Wonder Why??? (Why Jesus was called God in Isaiah?)

December 4 2015, 1:11 PM 

Jesus told the apostles that truth has been HIDDEN in parables from the foundation of the World. God easily HIDES from those without A holy spirit or the ability to read black text on brown paper.

False teachers take a few words out of context without grasping that Scripture uses various forms of parallelism where a second form of the first makes it pretty hard to miss the point.

We like this one.

Paul etal commands that we SPEAK that which is written for our learning including the metrical material for EDUCATION.

Those from whom God hides and mocks almost all theologians (Apollon's field) literally say that Paul said:

SING whatever sentimental poetry we wish and sing and play the harp OUT LOUD.

Logos and Light are two examples God uses to separate the GOATS from the lambs who just feed and grow.

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Ken Sublett
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Jesus was-is: Messiah, Prophet, High Priest, King

December 5 2015, 11:39 AM 

We have noted that the sudden rise of musical "worship" to stiffle the School of Christ as well as the "holy trinity" are the product the prophesied Babylon Mother of Harlots (fruits): they appear as emasculated rhetoricians, singers, instrument players, actors or dancer.

You will notice that Jesus is kept infantile so tiny that the pope can cuddle him in his arms. That, like the rise of Daughter Churches, has Mary as the MEDIATRIX. Ignatian Retreats and medications promoted by feminists at ACU, LU and other places ends with an appeal to Mary mother of God.

Lucado-Shelly etal have Jesus being send down in a VIAL OF LIGHT as one of the GOD persons. This is new and sudden in churches of Christ. KAIROS (hermes-mercury) is a popular "church planting plot" which intends to fleece the widows of faithful churches and plant daughter or Satellite congretations Purpose Driven by the Feminist-Effeminate PATTERN.

Locally suggesting that the trinity is false can get you threatened and, as warned, "SAT ON THE BACK PEWS."

At the same time denying the ONE GOD THE FATHER and One Lord, the Man Jesus is clearly MARKED as ANTICHRIST. They know, of course, that "we will never let them know."

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Jesus was-is: Messiah, Prophet, High Priest, King

December 6 2015, 12:22 PM 

Whatever is spoken of Israel in prophecy is used in the New Testament as spiritually fulfillled by Jesus. Jesus is JOSHUA in the Old Testament especially Zechariah. JOSHUSA or Jehovah-Saves has the same mmeaning as Jesus: God was WITH Joshua but Joshua was not JEHOVAH-righted the FATHER. Joshua-Jesus could not give the people REST which still does not exist where you LABOR with money and body acts. Jesus as the fulfillment for the NATION of Spiritual Israel, died to give us REST. Sabbath or Pauo does not mean a day of worship observations because Jesus said the kingdom DOES NOT COME where people are being made into SERFS to finance the ANTI-education institution. The LAMBS of Jesus will be OUTSIDE of the camps-gates-cities. As house or family they will REST from priests or levites which are excluded from all of God's Spiritual covenants. They only have to meet a one-piece pattern of Jesus to "REST and learn of me." The world, kosmos or ecumenical have NOT entered into their REST (from) and will never do so.

Ex. 3:12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.

This type was fulfilled in the person of Jesus:

Matt. 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

Hosea is one of the prophesies:

Hos. 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

In Matthew this is used of Jesus even though he was not yet born:

Matt. 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod:
.....THAT it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet,
.....saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

BONDAGE is Hagar, Egypt, Mount Sinai or physical Jerusalem which is called SODOM and the Mother of harlots. Laded Burdens are the arousal songs of the Scribes and Pharisees Jesus called Hypocrites AND a "tax not in time of WAR."

To save Spiritual Israel in type, Joseph had to REMOVE thee people from barren land.

Gen. 47:21 And as for the people, he removed them to cities
.....from one end of the borders of Egypt even to the other end thereof.
Gen. 47:22 Only the land of the priests bought he not;
.....for the priests had a portion assigned them of Pharaoh,
.....and did eat their portion which Pharaoh gave them:
.....wherefore they sold not their lands.
Gen. 47:23 Then Joseph said unto the people, Behold,
.....I have BOUGHT you this day and your land for Pharaoh:
.....lo, here is SEED for you, and ye shall sow the land.

The spiritual COVENANT as domos or laos EXCLUDES the priests and Levites. If you violate the promise of liberty in Isaiah 55 and give your food money to HIRE someone to be mediators or intercessors then YOU are still Hagar, Egypt, Mount Sinai, Jerusalem, Sodom. These people promise you that they can lead you into the presence of God. As Paul really says "Fools love to be fooled." Like watching the Titans in a few minutes!

Jesus was not Lord, Christ, Prince or Savior until god RAISED HIM UP or made him to be our brother to FEED us with WORD or LOGOS which is SPIRIT AND LIFE and not "little people."

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said,
..... We ought to obey God rather than men.
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers RAISED up Jesus, whom YE slew and hanged on a tree.
Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour,
.....for to give repentance to Israel,
.....AND forgiveness of sins.
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things;
.....and so is also the Holy Ghost, [A holy spirit-mind]
.....whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Most songs and sermons are PURPOSE DRIVEN to starve you to death for lack of the bread and water of the WORD (Amos 8; Isaiah 5)

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Dec 6, 2015 12:28 PM

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Donnie Cruz
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Alexander Campbell and Thomas Jefferson: The Trinity

January 24 2016, 4:29 PM 

Thanks to Ken Sublett for providing the information below.


In Leroy Garrett's "Alexander Campbell and Thomas Jefferson" (Religious Philosophy), we read in part [with emphases mine, d.c.]:

... Jefferson would have admired Campbell's anti-Calvinism, for he himself viewed that school of Protestantism as tyrannical and demoralizing. Like Campbell, Jefferson was anti-Trinitarian, contending that the Calvinistic idea of three Gods is a blasphemous dogma. ... The two men even talked similarly about the restoration of primitive Christianity. ... He saw Calvinism as believing in three Gods.

... It is difficult to tell Jefferson and Campbell apart when they are speaking on the evils of Calvinism, the jargon of Trinitarianism, the corruption of the clergy, or the confusions of creedalism. Compare their views on these subjects in these quotations:

Thomas Jefferson: "When we shall have done away with the incomprehensible jargon of the Trinitarian arithmetic, that three are one, and one is three; when we shall have knocked down the artificial scaffolding, reared to mask from view the simple structure of Jesus; when, in short, we shall have unlearned everything which has been taught since his day, and got back to the pure and simple doctrines he inculcated, we shall then be truly and worthily his disciplines." (Cousins, p. 156)

Alexander Campbell: "I object to the doctrine of the Trinity not because it is contrary to reason or revelation, but because of the metaphysical technicalities, the unintelligible jargon, the unmeaning language of the orthodox creeds on this subject, and the interminable war of words without ideas to which this word Trinity has given birth." (Mill. Harb. 1833, p. 155)

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Ken Sublett
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Joshua like Jesus means Jehovah-Saviour

March 11 2016, 12:43 PM 

The Progressives debunk the Epistles and claim to just PREACH JESUS. Paul claimed that he would only KNOW a Crucified Christ which demands that any one claiming food and travel are commanded by the REAL JESUS to save people FROM the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: speakers, singers, instrument players or any religious CRAFTSMAN beyond the PATTERN of Jesus. He spoke what the Father breathed into Him. Because He was not of any WORLD VIEW and did not pray for the WORLD or the ECUMENICAL the Jewish clergy murdered Him. Jesus said that those who SPEAK what He spoke from the Father would also be hated. The Kairos Church Planging as the RIGHT TIME TO MOUNT AN ATTACK fulfill prophesy by LADING as much burden on you as time allows and CHARGE you for performing a WORSHIP RITUAL devoid of JUST JESUS WORDS.

If you deny the ONE GOD THE FATHER and ONE LORD the Son and insist that there is a SECOND intercessor required to enable the work of Jesus then John called you an ANTICHRIST. Anathema is the MARK of those who have been Anathemated: they have devoted their bodies and skills to ENHANCE a religious institution. Because this is such a vile abomination "They cannot be redeemed and must be burned." That is why all instruments including the musical MOCKING of Jesus are always the prelude to BURNING.

Anyone who has a hidden agenda to TRANSISTION your property into the instrumental wing (explained by the NACC and the Christian Standard) have a sense of panic about them. They justify lying, cheating and stealing the church houses of widows "Cause we gonna save more souls." The LOCUST scheme is APOLLON'S band of MUSICIANS turning the LOCUST tribe into women: that's why the founding congregation quicky exits without looking back.

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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