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Truth in love...Parables against the WISE: speakers, singers, instrument players

June 23 2015 at 6:15 PM
Chris  (Login chrispcream)
from IP address 70.63.116.34

I believe debate is necessary and healthy for the church. We need to know what we believe, why we came to believe it, and that God led us to our beliefs through thoughtful personal study, open dialog with believers we respect and trust, and above all - prayer. A healthy body is a thinking body; one that doesn't accept an idea simply because it sounds right, or feels good. The topics in these pages should be discussed and debated, using God's Word as the cornerstone of every thought expressed.

I have but one exhortation to us all: that we speak out of love, respect and honor for one another, as we search for the truth. We are all children of the Most High God, and share a special and sacred kinship as brothers in the church of Christ. Jesus prayed for our unity. He knew it would be difficult for us. During His ministry, Jesus was bombarded with questions and concerns about His teachings, horror over the people with whom He associated, and slanderous accusations. What made Jesus so different was His ability to respond to opposition without the need to belittle or devalue. I think we all experience anger when our beliefs are challenged, but we should avoid statements that question the motives and character of the person, and focus rather on reaching consensus, if the topic is really that important.

Debate, yes! Disagree, certainly! Fight for the purity of the Bride of Christ, absolutely! Let us just remember to do so with love and respect for each other, recalling those times when WE were, in fact, the person who needed the word of wisdom. We should all extend the patience and grace to each other that has been showered upon us.

Peace and love to all of you!!!

______________________________
There can be no love when people mock Jesus instead of teaching what he commanded to be taught.

By definition of a Biblical or historic Church of Christ, Direct Commands, Biblical Examples and Necessary Inferences [the Logos] outlaws non Biblical sermons, performance singing or musical instruments replacing the building or educating by the Prophets and Apostles [Eph. 2:20]. Because of MOCKING by vocal and instrumental idolatry at Mount Sinai, God sentenced the Jews to captivity and death beyond Damascus [Amos 5:2] or beyond Babylon [Acts 7:43]. Giving false teachers no option, Jesus said that God hides from the wise or sophists who are rhetoricians, singers or instrument players. In Ephesians 4 elders as Pastor-Teacher's must remove these hypocritic performers who are marked as Lying in Wait to Deceive. In end-time prophesied Babylonianism [Rev. 17f] religious musicians are called sorcerers to be cast alivie into the Lake of Fire. They are foreordained writes Jude. Of Judas Sicarri (Assassin)-

Psa 41:11 By this I know that thou favourest me, because mine enemy [Judas] doth not triumph over me.
The warrior Levites would sound with the zither to defeat Messiah

http://www.piney.com/DSSPsa41.html

The alarm or mocking outlawed for the Church in the wilderness is. H7321 Ruwah to mar (especially by breaking); figuratively to split the ears (with sound), shout (for alarm or joy):--blow an alarm for war or idolatry [Ex. 32:18], make a joyful noise, smart, triumph.

[linked image]

Mark to watch for: Large Staff selling the free water of the Word

http://www.piney.com/Isaiah.55.Word.Spirit.html

There is no law of laying by in store for musical performers, drums or non teaching staff.

Isa 57:4 Against whom do ye SPORT yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood, [of the World or Ecumenical kingdom of the Devil]

Mark: the Law of Silence:

http://www.piney.com/The.Law.of.Silence.Isaiah.57.html

Mocking or Sport in Latin is: lūdo Especially to play on an instrument of music, to make or compose music or song: [Muses led by Apollon] caneret, eloquence, flute, harp, guitar, tibia. pretend work.

Mark to watch for: seeking your own pleasure or speaking your own words

http://www.piney.com/Isaiah.58.html

In Romans 15 Paul outlawed self pleasure and commanded "speaking that which is written for our learning"

-PROPHETIC TYPES FULFILLED to signal the end of the Law of bondage "added because of Instrumental Play" or Mocking at Mount Sinai. See

http://www.piney.com/Exodus.32.html and Psalm 41

Mark 10:33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chiefpriests, and unto the scribes [hypocrites: speakers, singers, instrument players Ezekiel 33] and they shall condemn him to death,
and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:

Mark 10:34a And they shall MOCK him, http://www.piney.com/Mark.10.And.they.shall.Mock.Him.html

Mocking in Greek: They Rose up to Play: [1] Paizo, 4. play on a musical instrument, play amorously, To be deluded mock, jest [2] Prospaizō, theous p. sing to the gods, sing in their praise or honour, Erōta sang a hymn in praise of Eros,“rhētoras” Galli ton arkton humnon or effeminate a cappella hymn leader.

1Cor. 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up [against God] to PLAY. [vocal or instrumental music and sexual play Romans 1]
1Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: [Patterns] and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come

SECULAR EXAMPLES which informed Paul: The Greek Psallo is derived from Apollon's bow and lyre Made by Hermes-Kairos [time to attack] and is similar to the story of Jubal who "handled" instruments Without Authority.

Plato. Phaedrus 262d perhaps too, the prophets of the Muses, who are singing above our heads, Mousōn prophēta [The female Muses or LOCUSTS Led by Apollon]

Vergil A. 9.634 Of such loud insolence and words of shame [Cano=sing and play] Ascanius brooked no more, but laid a shaft athwart his bowstring, while the deadly bow resounded and the arrow's fearful song hissed from the string; it struck unswervingly the head of Remulus and clove its way deep in the hollows of his brow. “Begone! Proud MOCKER at the brave! Then from heaven the flowing-haired Apollon bent his gaze [Apollon is "Musegetes" Leader of the Muses, locusts, singers, players, sorcerers]
Babylonian Praise Singers were needed to keep the gods from failing.

Mark 10:34b and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again
Job 17:6 He hath made me also a byword of the people; and aforetime I was as a tabret. [from Topheth or Hell].

This message has been added by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Jan 19, 2017 10:49 PM
______________________________



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Jun 26, 2017 10:08 AM


 
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AuthorReply
Donnie Cruz
(no login)
23.127.32.146

Re: Truth in love...

June 24 2015, 1:54 AM 

I wholeheartedly agree with you.
  • Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (II Tim.2:15)

  • And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (II Tim. 3:15,16)

  • Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. (Heb. 13:9)

  • Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; (II Tim. 4:2,3)

Thanks for the message.

 
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William Hall
(no login)
24.153.50.147

CrispCream?

June 24 2015, 2:07 AM 

CrispCream??? You really identify yourself as CrispCream??? You know that Hillary is going to try and pass a law against those things (o.k., with a "K"). On the other hand, I know a young woman named Crystal Burger.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: CrispCream?

June 24 2015, 1:37 PM 

That reminded me of "Crisping Pins."

Eph. 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph. 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph. 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


The LOVE PATTERN is to Teach that which is written for our learning: those who do not do that love only themselves. Notice that "Myself" is not God: He is not THE WORD but He speaks THE WORD which is a descriptive title belonging only to the ONE GOD THE ALMIGHTY.

1John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

But, we are not GOD!

John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of THE DOCTRINE whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.


A man can counterfeit love, he can counterfeit faith, he can counterfeit hope and all the other graces, but it is very difficult to counterfeit humility.-- D. L. Moody

Edifying is always connected to THE WORD:

[linked image]

It is the highest form of love to shout from towers that those who DENY the "as delivered" documents and hear "spirits" telling them that the Bible has expired are NOT disciples of Christ. Those who meditate and work REALLY HARD at prayer and claim their derived opinions as A spirit's message in fact HATE God and people. "Those whom the Devil want to destroy they first drive mad." (Mania in Paul's warning).

However, the substitute "love" is that no one should oppose the decisions of the "leadership" which usually means the senior pastor. That is why it is important to let Jesus Christ who gifted spiritual gifted "founding" leader's who wrote for OUR memory define love. The "Speaking the truth in Love" is a key point.

It would appear that speaking that which is not truth (the word) is not an expression of love which should never be sold.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Jun 24, 2015 1:47 PM


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

'Speaking the truth in love'

June 24 2015, 3:58 PM 

This thread will remain as a "sticky" note for a while. It is a good reminder to all posters that we can learn and benefit from this: "Debate, yes! Disagree, certainly." Let me add that we do not resort to attacking the character of another poster, calling names ("a foolish fanatic," "an addict," "a psychotic," etc.) in the midst of a "heated" argument. We let the Scripture handle that.

Our attempt here is to discuss controversial doctrinal issues civilly. We can achieve this when we remind ourselves of the instruction in II Timothy 2:15 -- by "rightly dividing the word of truth."

Chris[*] has made an excellent point that we "need to know what we believe" and why. Furthermore, the church is "a thinking body" -- "one that doesn't accept an idea simply because it sounds right, or feels good."

Speaking "the truth in love" is within the context of this passage:


"[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; [15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ." (Ephesians 4, KJV)



-----------------

[*] The letter "h' is in Chris' name and in the LOGIN ID.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.53

Re: 'Speaking the truth in love'

June 24 2015, 4:04 PM 

We can most certainly disagree without calling others "liars" and "antichrists" because their beliefs may differ from ours. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: 'Speaking the truth in love'

June 24 2015, 4:43 PM 

CM doesn't do that; the Scripture does.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.53

Re: 'Speaking the truth in love'

June 24 2015, 5:41 PM 

Yes, CM often does whenever someone's belief differs from that of CM. CM does not have a monopoly on Biblical interpretation.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: 'Speaking the truth in love'

June 24 2015, 6:03 PM 

No, CM is a religious discussion forum, and it allows differing beliefs to be expressed.

Yes, it is correctly stated that CM does not have a monopoly on biblical interpretation. That's why expressing differing beliefs is permitted. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a doctrinal discussion forum any longer.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.53

Re: 'Speaking the truth in love'

June 24 2015, 6:19 PM 

Of course CM "permits" different beliefs. The catch is that when people believe differently from what CM believes, then CM condemns those people as liars and antichrists, as if CM has a monopoly on Biblical interpretation. Hey, now THAT'S the way to "speak the truth in love." happy.gif


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: 'Speaking the truth in love'

June 24 2015, 8:29 PM 

I'm very certain "liars and antichrists" are identified in the Scripture. CM did not originate their IDs.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.53

Re: 'Speaking the truth in love'

June 24 2015, 9:04 PM 

Yes, we know that the terms "liars" and "antichrists" are in the Bible. We all know, because CM cashes in on that quite frequently. Now since CM believes that it has a monopoly on interpretation of Scripture (i.e., CM believes that its interpretation is THE ONLY CORRECT interpretation), then CM condemns as liars and antichrists all who have different interpretations.

There's been high talk about not resorting to name-calling during discussions. Perhaps CM should re-evaluate its position about welcoming "different" beliefs and Scriptural interpretations. When CM gets on a roll of condemning as a "liar" and "antichrist" anyone with different Scriptural interpretations, the impression may be left that the people running CM are behaving like an arrogant little bunch of stiff-necked, goose-stepping, Nazi Kommandants. Now we certainly don't want anyone to get that kind of impression about CM, and we don't want CM to leave the impression that they are behaving like an arrogant little bunch of stiff-necked, goose-stepping, Nazi Kommandants. No sir, that just would NOT do at all. We couldn't have anything like that, because it would be unacceptable.

On the other hand, if CM persists its name-calling by frequently hurling "liars" and "antichrists" against those with different Scriptural interpretations, then I don't see how people can avoid regarding CM as behaving like an arrogant little bunch of stiff-necked, goose-stepping, Nazi Kommandants. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: 'Speaking the truth in love'

June 24 2015, 11:14 PM 

"Nazi Kommandants": mentioned 3 times in one post. Thanks for the name-calling. We're adding that one to the growing list.

We will continue to post scriptures that are related to the doctrinal issue being discussed. If a scripture doesn't hit a nerve, a poster should be able to continue the discussion. If it hits a nerve and the poster keeps complaining, resorting to name-calling and deviating from the subject matter at hand, it is that poster's problem.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.53

Re: 'Speaking the truth in love'

June 24 2015, 5:57 PM 

Donnie, that was nice speech you made about being able to disagree. In part, "Let me add that we do not resort to attacking the character of another poster, calling names ("a foolish fanatic," "an addict," "a psychotic," etc.)..." Very noble words.

I do recall some posters using the terms "addict" and "psychotic," but I don't believe anyone has actually been called a "foolish fanatic" outright. Of course, a certain CM party was greatly encouraged NOT to be a foolish fanatic by slamming as liars and antichrists those whose beliefs differ from CM. For example, the foolish fanatic would persist in saying something like, "You are a liar and an antichrist because you believe that Jesus is God," when the Scripture does not make such a condemnation.

But if the shoe fits about being a foolish fanatic, then it must be worn. happy.gif

Yes, we can disagree well IF both sides will be civil. We shall see...

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Truth in Love Part 2

June 24 2015, 5:35 PM 

Truth in Love has two parts.
The WORD of God

2Cor. 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
Eph. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted,
.....after that ye heard
.....the word of truth,
.....the gospel of your salvation:
.....in whom also after that ye believed,
.....ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Baptism INTO the Word or into the School of Christ is the SEAL that you have A personal holy spirit.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.


WORD excludes any personal comments, rhetoric, singing, playing instruments or acting.

The WORD of God is the SEED: it is also that which connects the branches to the Vine. Word is LOGOS as the Regulative Principle which the end-time theologians mock and despise. There is no way to sell your own songs and sermons or musical performance without proving self-love. Paul and the Greek literature defined corrupting the Word or selling learning at retail as prostitution. Their kind of love is not validated by TRUTH (exclusively). Paul denied "unity in diversity" because Jesus does not pray for the world (ecumenical) and said that any performance replacing the WORD is not love but is LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

[linked image]


 
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DCA
(no login)
107.142.253.246

Re: Truth in Love Part 2

June 24 2015, 9:05 PM 

And then.....instead of leaving it alone....we have a two part dissertation on 'Truth in love'

Nice touch!

Donnie, say what you want and nice play on words, by the way, but beng called antichrist and liar by Sublett is judgmental, and although it is seen in Scripture, when calling someone by those names when we are trying to have a debate is ignorant and unholy. I believe that ignorant and unholy is in the Scriptures. I have used the term evil as a description of this site and the staff's take here on a lot of issues and especially it's condemnation of those they disagree with. Evil is also Scriptural.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Truth in Love Part 2

June 24 2015, 9:26 PM 

This thread is about truth in love.

 
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Layman
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Truth in Love Part 2

June 24 2015, 10:35 PM 



Ken, perhaps for you, true love is when Horus scratches your itching ears? happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Truth in Love Part 2

June 24 2015, 11:20 PM 

Layman, this thread must have awakened you?

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.53

Re: Truth in Love Part 2

June 24 2015, 9:53 PM 

This thread encourages posters to have more civil discussions without name-calling. Now the most frequently used name-calling terms on CM seem to be "liar" and "antichrist," and it also seems that those terms are abused much too often. They should only be Scripturally used and not always when someone has a different Scriptural interpretation from the moderators. As examples...

If a person says, "Jesus is not the Christ," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "Jesus did not come in the flesh," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "I deny the Father and the Son," s/he is a liar and an antichrist, because the Scriptures explicitly say so.

If a person says, "Jesus is God" and the moderators holler "liar" and "antichrist," they abuse the terms and resort to name-calling, because there is no Scripture that explicitly condemns the belief that Jesus is God.

Let's keep all this in mind during our discussions. happy.gif

 
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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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Here is the list of players;

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120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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