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Re: Blaspheme

September 28 2015, 10:00 AM 

The Scripture is very clear:

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (John 20:27-28).

Because we do interpret the Bible differently, some people believe that Thomas's "My Lord and my God" was nothing more than an exclamation of surprise, similar to today's exclamation of "Oh my God!" I believe Thomas declared Jesus to be Lord and God, which Jesus did not deny. If Jesus was not God, Jesus would have immediately set Thomas straight that He was not God.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: The Trinity FABLE as Always-Pagan: Dave's Itching Ears Scratched

September 26 2015, 4:37 PM 

Logos is God's REGULATIVE principle OPPOSITE to anything you will hear in the morning. God IS Regulative Principle which is His ORGANIZING PRINCIPLE: He speaks it it exists.

If Jesus IS the LOGOS then He is God's Regulative Principle and NOT God who Breathes into those who speak LOGOS or the regulative principle. If Jesus IS the source of that principle then we would not expect God's Regulative Principle walking on two legs.

There is no classical trinitarian who does not say that

God the father thinks or Conceives
God the father breathes as wind or spirit
The Son of the Father articulates the breath supplied by God.

If you say that Jesus IS the GOD who regulates the universe then you deny that He came IN THE FLESH.
God is NOT a man nor the Son of man: he does not have flesh and bones
Jesus as the MAN said that he had flesh and bones proving that he was IN THE FLESH.
John called that the mark of ANTICHRIST

This dismisses the total work of Jesus which he performed BY the Father's power.

All around the world you will hear the world or ECUMENICAL organized as ANTICHRISTIAN. Just listen and see whether the VICTIM is made dumb and speechless in the morning. Report how much time was teaching what Jesus Spoke.

The form LEXIS is the opposite to ODE and Psallo

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
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Re: The Trinity FABLE as Always-Pagan: Dave's Itching Ears Scratched

September 26 2015, 6:13 PM 

The Greeks and the Bible recognizes two primary modes used by those who speak in public.

The LOGOS is the Word of God and is the rational principle of God rationally (spiritually) understood.
The Muthos is EVERYTHING outside of LOGOS. Logos is TRUE history and is the opposite of MUTHOS. A song or sermon is a story put together by someone not happy with the logos. Heralds (presbyters-kerussos) were NEVER sent as philosophers or musicians.

NOTHING made by human hands or composed or programmed can be used in worshiping God: worship is IN the mind or spirit and is restricted solely to what we THINK in the only holy place. Any cult-like antics added are ANTI Logos and they joke about the Regulative Principle not aware at any level of incompetency that the WORD is the Regulative Principle. However, their institution for fleecing and fooling cannot happen with the LOGOS because God will not let it come out of their mouths other than LYING WONDERS.

mutholog-ikos , ê, on,
A. poetical, inventive, Pl.Phd. 61b.

Plato, Phaedo 61b] before making sure that I had done what I ought, by obeying the dream and composing verses. So first I composed a hymn to the god whose festival it was; and after the god, considering that a poet, if he is really to be a poet, must compose myths and not speeches, since I was not a maker of myths, I took the myths of Aesop, which I had at hand and knew, and turned into verse the first I came upon. So tell Evenus that, Cebes, and bid him farewell, and tell him, if he is wise, to come after me as quickly as he can.

Try as they can the will ALWAYS with God-gifted predestined perception:

Read and preach and facilitate SPEAK one to another with that which is written for our learning (Romans 15)

The WILL see what the blind always sees:

SING that which is written by flakey-wakey praze leaders TO the paying audience and sooner or later as destine want to add ODE and PSALLO which are never pretty words among the world or the ecumenical.

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(no login)

Proof is in God's Word...Not Ken's words

September 26 2015, 6:15 PM 

Ken said "If you say that Jesus IS the GOD who regulates the universe then you deny that He came IN THE FLESH."

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Although Ken says that Jesus does not regulate the universe John clearly states otherwise....notice verse 3
If ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM, then YES He does regulate them.
Snake oil again.

Ken, AGAIN, DENIES the Christ and he DOES NOT 'speak that which was written." The truth is not in Ken.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Proof is in God's Word...Not Ken's words

September 26 2015, 8:36 PM 

There are TWO world orders
The First Heavens and Earth were destroyed by water
The New heaven and earth was created through Jesus Christ: it was prophesied in the prophets, verified or interpreted by Jesus and left for our memory by mean like Peter.

The NEW WORLD ORDER which destroys those of THIS WORLD: the Christian dispensation is a time of winnowing with the wind (spirit) to separate those the Father gave Jesus and to collectivize the chaff to be burned. You would have to say that Jesus Christ was an utter failure if he, like our false teachers, wanted to COLLECT everyone (lambs and goats) in one Church. The inherited folly of the Disciples -Christians is that they were followers of William Miller who proved to them that Jesus would return in 1844. The Disciples organized their first missionary society to go to Jerusalem and save all of the Jews (they had been there and been scattered) and that would ENABLE Jesus to return. The "Jews" in Jerusalem did not want to be saved but the INCLUSIVES still think that they can fleece enough widows and organize enough programs into one World Church so that Jesus MIGHT be able to come.

They have a hard time enlisting Jesus

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my WORDS shall not pass away.
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man,, not the angels which are in heaven,
.....neither the Son, but the Father.
Mark 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

I believe that necessary inference would say that the SON is not the FATHER.

Is. 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with FIRE,
.....and with his chariots like a whirlwind, [like the winnowing wind or spirit]
to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with FLAMES OF FIRE
Is. 66:16 For by FIRE and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh:
.....and the slain of the LORD shall be many. [most]
Is. 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth,
.....which I will make, shall remain before me,
.....saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

And Peter affirms that JESUS didn't create that planet around a sun 100 light years away!

2Pet. 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of,
.....that by the WORD of God the heavens were of old,
.....and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pet. 3:6 Whereby the world that then was,
.....being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pet. 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, the same WORD are kept in store,
.....reserved unto fire
.....against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pet. 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing,
.....that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,
.....and a thousand years as one day.
2Pet. 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;
.....but is longsuffering to us-ward,
.....not willing that any should perish,
.....but that all should come to repentance.

Jesus separated himself from his WORD

John 12:47 And if any man hear my WORDS, and believe not, I judge him not, :
.....for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my WORDS, hath one that judgeth him:
.....the WORD that I have SPOKEN,
.....the same shall judge him in the last day.

You see the WORD the world over means that which is SPOKEN.

This is the LOGOS or Regulative principle which OUTLAWS self speakers, singers and instrument players is REPUDIATED by the end-time afflicters and false accusers. They will not respond because "they know whom they have believed" and are predestined.

Rick Atchley as the high priest of the prophesied progressives says that "we took your youth to hear christian bands: We taught your youth to leave our movement." Mike Cope and Jeff Walling work at Pepperdine to do just that thing: treachery based on ignorance so vile: but, not to worry, it will work out in the end. The Judas Bag of the thief was "for carrying the mouth pieces of wind instruments" always attached to a flute case. Prophesied in Psalms 41

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares,
.....who were before of old ordained to this condemnation,
.....ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,
.....and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they
.....have gone in the way of Cain, and [Cain is derived from a musical note or MARK]
.....ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and
.....perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Remember if you see a WORD on a PAGE be certain that you SPOKEN it! It's not God.

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(no login)

You JUST DON'T KNOW, but God Does!

September 26 2015, 8:51 PM 

Ken, You can't even validify your OWN words.

You said "Jesus separated himself from his WORD

John 12:47 And if any man hear my WORDS, and believe not, I judge him not, :
.....for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."

There is a difference between the WORDS of Jesus and JESUS being the WORD.

He DID NOT separate Himself from BEING the WORD, nor HIS WORDS. That is ludicrous. Why would Jesus say something but not want to own them? For one second Ken....THINK before you say!

The Scriptures there in John 12 state HIS WORDS, nothing about Him not BEING the WORD

You have a preconceived idea that you will not leave, even though it is false. HOWEVER, the WORDS of God make you false.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: You JUST DON'T KNOW, but God Does!

September 26 2015, 9:24 PM 

the WORD that I have SPOKEN

The word is what Jesus spoke.

I speak my words but my words are not me nor is ME my words.

Word or lOGOS cannot be a "people." The ancient and modern hermeNEUTS or Kairos people believe that the HERMES of Greek Myth is/was a real person. That is what Rubel Shelly teaches.

My WORDS are separated from ME the instance they leave as BREATH (spirit) from my lips or double-edged sword.

I SEPARATE my WORDS from ME with my keyboard. My keyboard is not a god person.

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Ken Sublett
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The God of the Jews and Progressives

September 26 2015, 9:46 PM 

Here is the God of the NEW HERMENEUTIC: WE cannot read the text because WE are moderns who have not evolved into people seeing visions (Lucado) and hearing audible voices (Shelly). We bible students call that strong delusions because they REPUDIATE the text they hire out their bodies to teach at MOST if not all pseudo-christian universities.

Hermes: Born with the dawning, at mid-day he played on the lyre, and in the evening he stole the cattle of far-shooting Apollo on the fourth day of the month; for on that day queenly Maia bare him.When Zeus had an affair with Mnemosyne, he coupled with her for nine consecutive nights, which produced nine daughters, who became known as the Muses [locusts, dirty adulteresses, sorcerers, burnable].

They entertained their father and the other gods as a celestial choir on Mount Olympus. They became deities of intellectual pursuits. Also the three Charites or Graces were born from Zeus and Eurynome. From all his children Zeus gave man all he needed to live life in an ordered and moral way.

Hermes [Mercury, Kairos], the herald of the Olympian gods, is son of Zeus and the nymph Maia, daughter of Atlas and one of the Pleiades.

Hermes is also the god of shepherds, land travel, merchants, weights and measures, oratory, literature, He was also a minor patron of poetry.

He was worshiped throughout Greece especially in Arcadia. Festivals in honor of Hermes were called Hermoea.
Originally Hermes was a PHALLIC [Jochin and Boaz] god, being attached to fertility and good fortune, and also a patron of roads and boundaries. His name coming from herma, the plural being hermaiherm was a square or rectangular pillar [Jochin and Boaz] in either stone or bronze, with the head of Hermes (usually with a beard), which adorned the top of the pillar, and male genitals near to the base of the pillar. The offspring of Hermes are believed to be Pan, Abderus and Hermaphroditus. Hermes as with the other gods had numerous affairs with goddesses, nymphs and mortals. In some legends even sheep and goats. Pan, the half man half goat, is believed to be the son of Hermes and Dryope,

For they style this good-producing, not knowing what they say. And the Greeks, deriving this mystical (expression) from the Egyptians, preserve it until this day. For we behold, says (the Naassene), statues of Mercury, of such a figure honoured among them.

Worshipping, however, Cyllenius with especial distinction, they style him Logios. For Mercury is Logos, who being interpreter and fabricator of the things that have been made simultaneously, and that are being produced, and that will exist, stands honoured among them, fashioned into some such figure as is the pudendum of a man, having an impulsive power from the parts below towards those above. And that this (deity)-that is, a Mercury of this description-is, (the Naassene) says, a conjurer of the dead, and a guide of departed spirits, and an originator of souls; nor does this escape the notice of the poets, who express themselves thus:-

"Cyllenian Hermes also called
The souls of mortal suitors.

Naas, however, has committed sin, for he went in unto Eve, deceiving her, and debauched her; and (such an act as) this is a violation of law.

He, however, likewise went in unto Adam,and had unnatural intercourse with him; and this is itself also a piece of turpitude, whence have arisen adultery and sodomy.

This, he says, is the word of God, which, he says, is a word of revelation of the Great Power.

They rashly assume in this manner, that whatsoever things have been said and done by all men, (may be made to harmonize) with their own particular mental view, alleging that all things become spiritual.

Whence likewise they assert, that those exhibiting themselves in theatres, not even these say or do anything without premeditation. Therefore, he says, when, on the people assembling in the theatres, any one enters clad in a remarkable robe, carrying a harp and playing a tune (upon it, accompanying it) with a song of the great mysteries, he speaks as follows, not knowing what he says:

"Whether (thou art) the race of Saturn (Satans, Molech, Chiun at Mount Sinai) or happy Jupiter, or mighty Rhea (ZOE), Hail, Attis, gloomy mutilation of Rhea. Assyrians style thee thrice-longed-for Adonis, and the whole of Egypt (calls thee) Osiris, celestial horn of the moon; [The bull, Apis, at Sinai]

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Sep 26, 2015 9:47 PM

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(no login)

Own Up to It

September 26 2015, 9:59 PM 

YOU are seeing visions and YOU are hearing voices. Don't blame it on Shelly or Lucado.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Own Up to It

September 26 2015, 10:11 PM 

I know that you are just using me to GIT UP your Bible Study for tomorrow. Here is what one of the originators explained consistent with all of the Bible. It was latter-day theologians at LU who were never required to read anything but the professors books who founded the Sect of the SECT OF ANTICHRISTISM

Tertullian Against Praxeas (c. 213)

There are some who allege that even Genesis opens thus in Hebrew: "In the beginning God made for Himself a Son."
As there is no ground for this, I am led to other arguments derived from God's own dispensation, which He [God] existed before the creation of the world,
.....up to the generation of the Son

For before all things God was alone -- being in Himself and for Himself universe, and space, and all things.
Moreover, He was alone, because there was nothing external to Him but Himself.
.....Yet even not then was He alone;
.....for He had with Him that which He possessed in Himself,
.....that is to say, His own Reason.
For God is rational, and Reason was first in Him; and so all things were from Himself.
.....This Reason is His own Thought (or Consciousness) which the Greeks call logos, which term we also designate Word or Discourse

and therefore it is now usual with our people, owing to the mere simple interpretation of the term, say that the Word was in the beginning with God;
.....although it would be more suitable to regard Reason as the more ancient;
.....because God had not Word from the beginning, but He had Reason even before the beginning;
.....because also Word itself consists of Reason,
.....which it thus proves to have been the prior existence as being its own substance.

Not that this distinction is of any practical moment.
.....For although God had not yet sent out His Word,
.....He still had Him within Himself, both in company with and included within His very Reason, He silently planned and arranged within Himself
.....everything which He was afterwards about to utter through His Word.

Now, whilst He was thus planning and arranging with His own Reason,
.....He was actually causing that to become Word which He was dealing with in the way of Word or Discourse. .

And that you may the more readily understand this, consider first of all,
.....from your own self, who are made "in the image and likeness of God,"
.....for what purpose it is that you also possess reason in yourself, who are a rational creature, being not only made by a rational Artificer, but actually animated out of His substance.

Observe, then, that when you are silently conversing with yourself, this very process is carried on within you by your reason, which meets you with a word at every movement of your thought, at every impulse of your conception.
Whatever you think, there is a word; whatever you conceive, there is reason.
.....You must needs speak it in your mind; and while you are speaking, admit speech as an interlocutor with you,
.....involved in which there is this very reason, whereby,
.....while in thought you are holding converse with your word, are (by reciprocal action) producing thought by means of that converse with your word.

Thus, in a certain sense, the word is a second person within you,
..... through which in thinking you utter speech, and through which also, (by reciprocity of process,) uttering speech you generate thought.

The word is itself a different thing from yourself.
Now how much more fully is all this transacted in God,
.....whose image and likeness even you are regarded as being,
.....inasmuch as He has reason within Himself even while He is silent,
.....and involved in that Reason His Word!

I may therefore without rashness first lay this down (as a fixed principle)
.....that even then before the creation of the universe God was not alone,
.....since He had within Himself both Reason, and, inherent in Reason, His Word,
.....which He made second to Himself by agitating it within Himself.

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I Am Just Saying

September 27 2015, 9:25 AM 

No Bible lesson from me. I am doing the SANGY CLAPPY at 11 AM. The lesson to follow from Danny is about the church from Jesus in the wilderness. You should be proud. More than being proud you should get off that couch and let down your pride for an hour and meet with the saints at a church. If you need a motivation read Hebrews 10:25

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Donnie Cruz
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The Church in the Wilderness

September 28 2015, 1:35 AM 


Good for Danny! Maybe he's learned something from Ken ... if not, directly from the Bible. Ken has been repeating what the Bible says in Acts 7:37-43ff --
  • [37] This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
  • [38] This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
  • [39] To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
  • [40] Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
  • [41] And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
  • [42] Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
  • [43] Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
It is noteworthy, Dave, that you are taking notes. Expressions are registering: "the church in the wilderness" ... "speak that which is written" ... "that which is written for our learning" ... "teach that which has been taught" ... etc. Sounding like one of our Restoration forefathers. But that's not surprising. My own observations are that Ken is that close to the teachings of the New Testament and the Restoration movers; in contrast, the change agents operating in the brotherhood today are attempting to rewrite the Restoration history while attempting to restructure the church that Christ established.

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Ken Sublett
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Bill Says versus what Christ says

September 28 2015, 12:36 PM 

After Israel's fatal Instrumental-Trinitarian idolatry God turned the over to worship the starry hosts (Acts 7 as a starter), The Spirit OF Christ as the ROCK (God is "our" Rock but He is not the rock of the pagans) defined the Church both inclusively and exclusively.

God did not teach His values by the "Lying pen of the Scribes speaking about the temple" which God did not command. A church of Christ assembling as SYNAGOGUE, is a SKHOLE of the Prophets and Apostles both informed by the Spirit OF Christ.

The Spirit Which was breathed into the MAN Jesus of Nazareth breathed into the PROPHETS. The Law of Moses was of value only that it PROPHESIED of Jesus as the another prophet.

The Prophecies were the TESTIMONY OF CHRIST which eternal "Actor" was assigned to Jesus of Nazareth. The prophets define the Church in REST both inclusively and exclusively and the "Theologians" who give you a Simonizing degree HAVE NO LIGHT IN THEN by the predestined will of God for anyone who questions HIS Word or Regulative Principle. Christ had a few things to say as a way TO MARK the "institutional" captivity by the Mother Goddesses producing "boys" as leaders.

When Philip and Thomas spoke they were still "unbelievers" until after the resurrection.

[linked image]

Jesus spoke in parables because the clergy had no need to know. The recorded evidence and the sudden treachery proves that God HIDES from the wise, Sophists: Wage Driven Clergy, singers or instrument players. Those carrying the Judas Bag attempt to Alarm or Triumph over Jesus but they will fail and have to hang themselves when Satan decides that He has failed. That is the "vocal or instrumental Rejoicing" they tried by MUSICALLY MOCKING Jesus to the foot of the old rugged cross.

[linked image]

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(no login)

Re: Bill Says versus what Christ says

September 28 2015, 2:34 PM 

As I sped by Ken's post, I noted that all his verbiage still doesn't change the fact that when Thomas declared Jesus to be his Lord and God, Jesus didn't deny it at all. Jesus knew that He is God, and Thomas knew that Jesus is God. The Scriptures are still very clear about that.

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Donnie Cruz
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Re: Bill Says versus What Christ Says

September 29 2015, 2:31 AM 

Bill claims:
The Scripture is very clear:

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (John 20:27-28).

Because we do interpret the Bible differently, some people believe that Thomas's "My Lord and my God" was nothing more than an exclamation of surprise, similar to today's exclamation of "Oh my God!" I believe Thomas declared Jesus to be Lord and God, which Jesus did not deny. If Jesus was not God, Jesus would have immediately set Thomas straight that He was not God.


"Oh, my God" ["OMG" in the world of texting]. How cute ... nice try, Bill.

When Bill speed-reads he misses a lot:

1. The "doubting" Thomas had the right to say "My Lord and my God" to Jesus.

2. When John 20 is read with a little more comprehension:

--- Mary said, "... they have taken away my Lord" [not "my Lord and my God"].
--- Mary addressed Jesus "Rabboni" which is to say, "Master" [not "my God"].
--- Jesus said, "I am not yet ascended to my Father" [Jesus is not the Father].
--- Jesus said of God the Father "my Father."
--- Jesus said of God the Father "your Father."
--- Jesus said of God the Father "my God."
--- Jesus said of God the Father "your God."
--- Mary Magdalene told the disciples that she had seen the Lord -- [not "seen God"].
--- The disciples were glad when they saw the Lord [not "when they saw God].
--- Jesus said "my Father hath sent me" [not "hath sent God"].
--- The other disciples said to Thomas, "We have seen the Lord" [not "we have seen God"].
--- "... written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God [not "Jesus Christ is God"].

3. More than 100 passages in the O.T. reference "my God" -- they have nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

4. "I thank my God through Jesus Christ" (Rom. 1:8) -- not "my God through God."

5. The grace of God is given you by Jesus Christ (I Cor. 1:4) -- not "God by God."

6. My God shall supply all your need by Jesus Christ [not "by God"] in Phil. 4:19.

7. Salutations in the epistles from: (1) God the Father and (2) Jesus Christ the Son of God.

8. So many more passages already quoted earlier....

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Re: Bill Says versus What Christ Says

September 29 2015, 8:34 AM 

Of course Thomas had the "right" to say "My Lord and my God" to Jesus. When he saw Jesus' hands and side, Thomas no longer doubted; he knew that Jesus is Lord and God and said so. It's very important to note that Jesus did not deny what Thomas said about Him. By dismissing that verse, Donnie seems to miss a lot on that point. He evidently thinks that Thomas was just exclaiming a first-century "OMG." happy.gif

People do have the "right" to interpret the Scripture and deny that Jesus is God to their heart's content. The evidence that Jesus is God is still there for those who are willing and able to see it.

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Donnie Cruz
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Re: Bill Says versus What Christ Says

September 30 2015, 12:21 AM 

Bill, you certainly ignored the rest of John 20. You also ignored (as usual) all the indications that God the Father is not Jesus the Son of God the Father.

Here's the key message in John 20 (since it took Thomas to see to believe...):

[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

[30] And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

[31] But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

You will not find in the Bible that "Jesus the Christ is God."

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Re: Bill Says versus What Christ Says

October 3 2015, 9:38 AM 

Donnie wrote: "You will not find in the Bible that 'Jesus the Christ is God.'"

Let's be complete: You also will not find in the Bible that "Jesus the Christ is not God."

That's where our understanding of the Scriptures becomes a factor. Whether we see Jesus as God or not God is strictly a matter of how we understand the Scriptures. Donnie strongly believes that Jesus is not God and tells everyone who believes otherwise that they are "wrong." Bill strongly believes that Jesus is God and tells everyone who believes otherwise that they have a right to their understanding of the Scriptures, especially in matters such as this, where only religious fanatics draw the line between the saved and the lost. happy.gif

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Ken Sublett
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Back to Itching ears!!g Part A

September 29 2015, 3:18 PM 

Dave accuses those who can read the Bible with having itching ears just because they define the EARS getting scratched in a ex-church near you. Reposting pat A again

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
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Itching Ears Part A-1

September 29 2015, 3:29 PM 

[linked image]

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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