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Scripture
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Re: Itching Ears Part A-1

September 29 2015, 8:57 PM 

How would the following passages be explained?

Acts 8:37 (Some manuscripts include here) Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” The eunuch answered, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

Or John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

If He is the Son of God, then how is He the Son? Is he divine like God, or like his mother Mary?

 
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Bill
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74.179.14.17

Re: Itching Ears Part A-1

September 29 2015, 9:36 PM 

Ask Ken to explain them. He'll put the mythological spin on them, because he believes that mythology provides an answer to all things Biblical. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Itching Ears Part A-1

September 29 2015, 9:43 PM 

I was giving you time to bubble up!

we will wait and let someone else respond.

 
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Dave
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107.142.254.21

It May Be Your Website but You Can't Say That

September 29 2015, 9:58 PM 

Donnie said "Ken has been repeating what the Bible says in Acts 7:37-43ff -- "

Donnie is not telling the truth. When Ken puts his spin on everything and everything goes back to singing being sinful, and Greek mythology spurring the way for interpretation, Donnie, you KNEW that you weren't getting by with telling that tall tale.

 
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Bill
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74.179.14.17

Re: It May Be Your Website but You Can't Say That

September 30 2015, 12:01 AM 

Whatever the topic, I've noticed that Ken's responses to posts usually always take off on some tangent about the evils of singing served up with a heaping helping of mythology. A newcomer here would get the impression that proficiency in pagan mythology and a crusade against singing are requirements for salvation. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: It May Be Your Website but You Can't Say That

September 30 2015, 1:00 AM 

"... against singing are requirements for salvation"?

Now ... taking off on some tangent.


 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

The eunuch: 'I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.'

September 29 2015, 11:50 PM 

Bill says: "Ask Ken ... the mythological spin...."

No, ask Bill. Bill with the Trinity spin. Instead of: "Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God?" ... Bill will "trinitize" the question with: "Do you believe that Jesus is God?" [Why? Because Bill believes that the Son is the Father or that the Father is the Son.]

 
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Bill
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74.179.14.17

Re: The eunuch: 'I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.'

September 30 2015, 12:44 AM 

No, ask Ken. We want to see how much he goes off on some tangent and works pagan mythology and singing-is-sinful scenarios into those Bible verses that Scripture wants to have explained. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: The eunuch: 'I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.'

September 30 2015, 1:12 AM 

Read Acts 7: esp. verses 40-43. "Make us gods to go before us" ... "they made a calf in those days" ... "offered sacrifice unto the idol" ... "gave them up to worship the host of heaven" ... "ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them...." Pagan mythology did you say?????????????

Singing-is-sinful? That depends on the musical worship.

 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Itching Ears Part A-1

September 30 2015, 12:54 AM 

Great questions, Scripture.

The eunuch's answer is found in numerous passages in the New Testament: "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” If the eunuch and NT passages had said "that Jesus Christ is God," then it would be truth that must be accepted. However, there is not one passage that indicates or expresses that idea.

How is He the Son? Is he divine like God?

"Divine" is defined as "of, from, or like God or a god." The words "of" and "from" and "like" and "a" are very significant. Scholarly translations of John 1:1 prove this point: "[no caps] in the beginning was the word, and the word was with the god, and the word was a god (or godlike)."

So, the divinity of Jesus is not in question here. After all, God the Father sent His only begotten Son to earth (as you quoted John 3:16). God the Father made Jesus the crucified both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36). Christ is THE IMAGE of God [for the sake of Bill: even children know the meaning of "image"] -- cf. II Cor. 4:4.

 
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Dave
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107.142.254.21

You Get What You Deserve

September 30 2015, 7:52 AM 

Donnie said "Singing-is-sinful? That depends on the musical worship."

That is also not true Donnie. YOU KNOW that Ken universally specifies that ANY SINGING (any music) is sinful. You don't like getting called to the mat, but you keep claiming what is not true.

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: You Get What You Deserve

September 30 2015, 11:44 AM 

What ken said was this:

There is no command, example or remote inference of God calling the NOT-ABANDONED Jews out of their rest for group singing with or without instruments."

Therefore, there is no Bible example of SINGING in a congregation sense in the New Testament or Church history for many centuries.

The command is to SPEAK that which is WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING: Speak is the opposite of ODE.

The command is to READ or SPEAK the Text
There is not a scratched scrap of paper in the text which is metrical: God BREATHED (Spirit) without METRON or meter: Jesus SPAKE the Word and He spake (dicto) one hymn (prayer) in his whole life as far as we know although He might have next year, same time.

There is no congregational singing until after Calvin.

Ephesians 4 and Colossians 3 commands that the text be SPOKEN and the ODE (opposite to speak) and Psallo (a nasty word) is IN the heart or spirit.

If you don't know how to read the text it doesn't matter what you do because Jesus said the kingdom does not come with OBSERVATION meaning religious operations and worship is IN the place of the Spirit.

The assembled people are a SYNAGOGUE called an Academy in the wilderness or a SCHOOL in the Greek.

 
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Dave
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107.142.254.21

Sang Means Sang Today and 1000 years from now

October 3 2015, 12:37 AM 

I know how to read that Paul SANG in the prison, and Jesus SANG

Act 16 and Matthew 26


It is SANG Ken, no matter how you hermeneutic it. Singing with voxal chords vibrating.

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Sang Means Sang Today and 1000 years from now

October 3 2015, 12:47 PM 

It doesn't matter what you do in the morning, you intend to violate the direct commandments of Paul to "use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning." You don't intend to use "Biblical melody which related to tunefulness only in the 19th century." You intend to use HARMONY which in the Greek meant several people hymning the same note. That is the meaning or ORGANUM which was the STYLE used in the Sistine Chapel (caper, capel). You intend with a high hand to use a complex scrambled style which is ABRASIVE to most people or they would fill the pews of those violating the direct command to hold SKHOLE and replace it with a worship service. If you worship with your BODY then you violate direct commands by not falling on your face and remain SILENT--the command is to both male and female if you are not a hypocrite. Christ breathed "when God is in His holy temple let all the earth keep silent before him." You intend to SANG that verse producing Decibel Poisoning which OSHA would define as hazardous to your physical and emotional health.

A hymn means "in the style of Hebrew cantillation. You can hymn a Bible verse using a ONE NOTE melody without any meter. God breathed His WORD or Regulative Principle without METRON or METER. That was to SILENCE the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites defined as performing preachers for hire, singing or playing instruments. MELOS and not PSALLO is the OUT LOUD musical melody and that EXCLUDES meter since there was nothing Paul could SANG with meter: God cracked the knee caps by DEMANDING the word SPEAK or READ. History notes that the singing of the Jews was with effeminate vibrato: Jesus defined their practices because they nor most have any intention of teaching that which has been taught or obeying whatever they try NOT to hear during preacher claiming to replace Jesus.

I suggest that you have yourself locked up and you can SANG with the Arian Nation

 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Sang Means Sang Today and 1000 years from now

October 3 2015, 8:14 PM 

Dave said: "I know how to read that Paul SANG in the prison, and Jesus SANG."

Me too: I know how to read...

(1) Regarding Paul -- I wonder if Paul had a Praise Team and a "Worship Leader" to lead him and Silas into God's holy presence.

(2) Regarding Jesus -- I wonder where [which congregation] Jesus attended for worship.

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Response to Scripture

September 30 2015, 11:31 AM 

Most people fail to grasp that records would be kept for most public events: scribes made copies and sold them before the ink was dry. Jesus promised to guide the original apostles as well as Paul into all truth as the letters were written and sent out with the direct command to READ them to the people. Writers are recording History in "parts" as Peter left us his eye-- and ear witness for our memory. They would naturally speak in past tense. Jesus of Nazareth was not lord and Christ until God gave Him that role: afterward the Man Jesus of Nazareth is named Jesus Christ the Righteous by John who is now the promised paraclete or comforting Spirit.

Neither Lord Nor Christ are Jehovah who is the ONLY true God. Jesus was not confessed as a son until after his baptism: we too are sons of God by faithfulness.

John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David,
.....and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?


Again Christ is the Messiah or the man who is anointed by God and MADE TO BE both lord and Christ: Jesus is said to be in the IMAGE of God and therefore could not BE one.

Rom. 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
.....which was MADE of the seed [SPERM] of David
.....according to the flesh;

Rom. 1:4 And DECLARED to be the Son of God with power,
.....according to the spirit OF holiness,
.....by the resurrection from the dead: ;


Jehovah is NOT a MAN nor the SON of Man: that means past, present and future. God is the SPIRIT Being Who fills the universe: you cannot see Him nor Hear Him: God made Jesus to be the PATTERN by which He repudiated the ALWAYS-PAGAN and anti-Christian view that this SPIRIT BEING is in any sense remotely similar to the old and new pagans. All of the authority Philip and Thomas and others wanted to ALSO see a separated FATHER is refuted by the ONE LORD Jesus Christ.

2Tim. 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:


Jesus was the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son through Mary. God's LOGOS or Regulative Principle declares that we are God's Sons by nature taking it's course. Jesus REPUDIATED the pagan trinitarians who said that "a god" had sex with a mortal woman and her son (Hermes, Mercury, Kairos) and a host of other sons. However, The SPIRIT which breathes out WORDS: Jesus equated WORDS to Spirit and Life: The Word is the seed and sparks us into a new birth.

Genesis 22 It happened after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, "Abraham!" He said, "Here I am." [2] He said, "Now take your son, your only [unigenitum] son, whom you love, even Isaac, and go into the land of Moriah. Offer him there for a burnt offering on one of the mountains which I will tell you of."

To repudiate the ALWAYS-pagan FAMILIES OF GODS, Jesus is the only MAN IN THE FLESH Who was created from the SEED of Abraham through the line of Mary only. This is a great marker for Bible Readers: It was prophesied that a son of Jechoniah would never sit on David's Throne. If humans had inspired the text and made Joseph the genetic son of Jesus we would know of certain that they were not inspired. Therefore, virgin births are common in many species and that may not be the POWER POINT but the role of Jesus was to CERTIFIED by his NOT being out of Joseph who was out of Jechoniah.

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Itching Ears Part B

September 30 2015, 12:11 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Itching Ears Part B

October 2 2015, 5:00 PM 

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, BEING A MAN, makest thyself God.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SIB of God?
John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is IN me, and I IN him.



 
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Scripture
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23.117.130.209

Re: Itching Ears Part B

October 2 2015, 9:14 PM 

Are we to think that Jesus is a Son through His obedience, submission, and faith? This may be the adoptionist point of view.

Would you say that He is "a son" or "the Son"?

Those who follow Christ are often called "children of God."




 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Itching Ears Part B

October 2 2015, 10:07 PM 

I think that Jesus was THE unique or only begotten son in the flesh: He was acknowledged as that son after His baptism. That seems to contrast to the hosts of sons and daughters who were born when a father god had sex with normally a mortal woman. He is unique also in that only He is able to reveal the Father to us.

We are sons of God by faith or faithfulness.

Phil. 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;


At baptism we are clothed with Christ.

Gal. 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Eph. 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


It is clear that Jesus was the seed of Abraham and David: He was made to be the Messiah or Christ by God the father and that is unique.

If the spirit returns to God Who gave it we must not have a need to know of any state he or we enjoyed. He was not OF The World as those who Hear and Obey Him are not OF the World Order. Proof left by Jesus is that those who speak the Word they heard as He spoke the Word He heard will be hated and despised and hurt.

The World Order progressive churches seem bent on restoring are not those I believe to be "Lost Spirits" whom Jesus was sent to seek and save. He died for the whole world but Jesus did not pray for and did not speak except in parables to those He called a race of vipers. That may explain why the only direct commission was to GO and preach the Word to the world with no mention of forming institutions whose goal seems to be to twist arms to fill the pews and coffers. Dusting shoes seems proof that those with eyes and ears will accept the invitation and those who gladly receive the Word with few details will want to be baptized.




 
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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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