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NEW: What We Believe: Sectarians are MUSICAL DISCORDERS Part A +B.

October 2 2015 at 3:10 PM
Ken Sublett  (Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 184.63.180.96

The old thread as usual gets scrambled by deliberate scramblers. The original question flows from a view that Churches of Christ are SECTARIANS, legalists or patternists for REFUSING to let them lie, cheat and steal claiming ANY musical content outlawed from the Church of Christ (the ROCK) in the wilderness until Jesus Comes.

From the serpent (musical enchanter(ess) in the garden of Eden predestined spirits FROM OLD have used the discording sounds of instruments to silence the WORD, Logos or Regulative Principle which he began by lying. Besides, what foolish soul would let a musical worship team perform by selling their bodies while HE is claiming to be the Master Teacher?

The Church of Christ is the SECT that is called the WAY: a narrow road the new progressives could not stumble upon. The road is a PATTERN just as a road to your town prevents you from walking the opposite way. That does not prevent the ANTI-LOGOS for blaspheming and accusing you with being legalistic for following the MAP which IS defined inclusively and exclusively of the hypocrites: singers, players, actors.

LEGALISM is defined in great detail of the same wise from whom God hides as demanding that you have talent, learn, practice, rehearse, perform and be judged based on LEGALISTIC RULES.

The ROAD is the PATTERN: the discorders get discorded because they cannot admit that the church has a ONE PIECE PATTERN: a School of the Prophets and Apostles PREACHED by being READ without any umms or ahhs.

There are many words defining a Heretic or Sectarian but they all define evil people who use rhetoric, singing, playing or acting to MAKE THE LAMBS DUMB BEFORE THE SLAUGHTER.

The pattern is so EXCLUSIVE that the kingdom does not come with OBSERVATION meaning religious observation performing ROLES for the congregation which they claim is for GOD when they take home the lay by and store. Worship in a spiritual sense can ONLY be silent and in MY mind or spirit as I give attention to GOD'S Word which outlaws speaking your own words (Isa 58).

Gog and Magog are encompassing Jerusalem as their religious wing has encompassed and trying to prevent a New Jerusalem. They will never refute that because you can deceive and fleece most of the people most of the time and the MOSE or WORLD ORDER is the ecumenical kingdom of Satan.

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Oct 5, 2015 12:50 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Sectarian as Paraisago Part B

October 5 2015, 12:49 PM 

There are many words defining a Sectarian or Heretic: the Infiltrate and Divert your church to their own use is based on "Resisting when they break in and steal" because they boast of using a decade or so to work on "TEACHING OUR YOUTH TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT" they define a Sectarian, heretic, hypocrite, legalist and all of the RACA words to define YOU for daring to dispute their right to use the liberty jesus gave to YOU and claim that "a" spirit commanded them to impose what God imposed on fallen from Grace Israel BECAUSE of instrumental-trinitarian idolatry: these are noted to be the marks of Women and Boys ruling over you.

[linked image]

 
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Dianna Howell
(Login DiannaHowell)
107.77.68.117

Re: Sectarian as Paraisago Part B

October 5 2015, 4:32 PM 

Hello Mr. Sublett,

I have been perusing your website at piney.com, and I wanted to thank you once again for making all this information public. It took some time in order to learn how to navigate the site, but once I figured it out I was and am amazed at the wealth of information that is there. I already agree that instrumental music shouldn't be allowed in the church, as there is no example in the New Teatement. I have learned from your website and the scriptures how and why The Lord did not authorize it in the Old Testement either. I wanted to let you know that there are a few links that aren't working at the piney website, and should a stumble across them again I will let you know.

In Christ,
Dianna

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Sectarian as Paraisago Part B

October 5 2015, 8:29 PM 

Thanks for your comments. I have a lot of lost links many of them have been in a effort to like readers to other good resources. Too bad, but people establish a good resource and then just drop it.

This forum is pretty much like too many churches: they have strong opinions but refuse to read the text.




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Oct 5, 2015 10:22 PM


 
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Dianna
(Login DiannaHowell)
107.77.68.117

Re: Sectarian as Paraisago Part B

October 6 2015, 2:20 PM 

Yes, I have noticed the comments that say that they can't understand it, but it seems to be an excuse to not read it at all. If I, who only had a couple years of college, can understand, then it must be those who don't want to know the truth.

Your comments regarding the lost links, brings me to my next query. It is one that I have reservations asking, but here goes anyway. What will happen to your website, when your life here is over? Will the site be maintained? If this is none of my business, then I apologize in advance for asking. Of course, I wish you many more fruitful years to teach here on this platform, and I pray that The Lord help you reach more people.

Dianna

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Sectarian as Paraisago Part B

October 6 2015, 4:58 PM 

Good question and I don't know yet. My old computer died and with it my up to date files. I bought a cheap used one and put my old disc in it and I am ok.

I have so many copies of files and I am busy saving the latest version or two and will put them on hard disc which is the only way to save the about 4500 files. I have everything from clay tablets and most of the important documents in between including lots of the Restoration Movement and most of the ANTI church documents or sermons.

My education and experience is in engineering so I tend to minimize opinions and include verses, their translation, the definition of words and the classical or other literature in which the words are used. Beyond that a good disciple can reach their own conclusions.

The material deserves a place somewhere but you are the first to ask besides my wife and family. You are welcomed to take any parts you wish and put it in your own words: you might get hurt by the leadership! Jesus told the apostles that if they spoke the word like He spoke from God they would be hated.

Send me an email if you want to help.

knthsublett@gmail.com

 
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Rancor
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Sectarian as Paraisago Part B

October 8 2015, 6:19 PM 



Ken, do you think church singing is as evil as church instrumental instruments?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Samuel First Chronicles Sectarian part

October 6 2015, 5:58 PM 

Most of the ANTI Biblical "progressives" have never read the Bible beyond what it took to get a grade. Else they would know that the Sacrificial System at the Temple was imposed at Jerusalem after the ELDERS dismissed God: they wanted a senior pastor to help them win wars and WORSHIP like the nations. God warned them and then abandoned them. Samuel defined the Sacrificial Sectarians which was opposite to and off limits to the godly Jews on the sabbath which means REST which is opposite to worship defined at the temple. Being abandoned to worship the STARRY HOST that would include APOLLON or ABADDON from which the service as hard bondage took its name.

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Samuel First Chronicles Sectarian part

October 17 2015, 6:11 PM 

We have heard a lot of GOD DIDN'T SAY on this forum: this is the foundation of faith and practices imposed because God hath not said "thou shalt not." Homey Haley has some good history and events to add to my Sectarian Timeline>

"There had been opposition to the missionary societies, but no definite split had resulted in the decade following the organization of the first one in 1849. But as the year 1860 approached, a new cloud appeared on the horizon, destined to break into a storm which would result in complete division. Gates has well said of the music controversy, “The organ controversy was the missionary controversy in a new form, for both grew out of the opposition to human innovations in the work and worship of the church…”(Errett Gates, The Disciples of Christ, p. 250).

Of the two interpretations of, or attitudes toward, authority developed, Alonzo W. Fortune, a historian of the liberal Disciples, correctly summarized the matter when he wrote:
There were two different interpretations of the church which inevitably came into conflict. There were those who believed the church should move on with the rest of the world and adapt the spirit of New Testament conditions to conditions that were ever changing. They held that, when not forbidden by the New Testament, they were free to adapt their program to changing needs.

On the other hand, there were those who believed the matter of the church was fixed for all time, and the fact that certain things were not sanctioned was sufficient ground for rejecting them. The men on both sides were equally honest, but they had a different approach to these issues that were raised” (A. W. Fortune, The Disciples in Kentucky, pp. 364, 365).
It should be said of those who opposed the introduction of mechanical instruments into worship that they were not “anti-progressive,” but they were “anti-digressive”; they were opposed to any digression from what they understood to be the divinely instituted worship of God. W.E. Garrison accurately stated their position when he wrote:
…The anti-organ side did not argue that there must be explicit authority for every accessory of worship pulpits, pews, glass in the windows, stoves in the meeting house, printed Bibles and hymn-books—but only that every element of worship must be scripturally authorized. We have precept or precedent for sermon, song, prayer, scripture-reading and the Lord’s Supper, but none for instrumental music. The position is consistent enough, granted the premise that “the elements of public worship are prescribed, inclusively and exclusively” (W.E. Garrison, Religion Follows the Frontier, p. 236).

That this premise mentioned is valid is affirmed by the latter group to be the truth in the matter.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Samuel First Chronicles Sectarian part

October 17 2015, 6:12 PM 

We have heard a lot of GOD DIDN'T SAY on this forum: this is the foundation of faith and practices imposed because God hath not said "thou shalt not." Homey Haley has some good history and events to add to my Sectarian Timeline>

"There had been opposition to the missionary societies, but no definite split had resulted in the decade following the organization of the first one in 1849. But as the year 1860 approached, a new cloud appeared on the horizon, destined to break into a storm which would result in complete division. Gates has well said of the music controversy, “The organ controversy was the missionary controversy in a new form, for both grew out of the opposition to human innovations in the work and worship of the church…”(Errett Gates, The Disciples of Christ, p. 250).

Of the two interpretations of, or attitudes toward, authority developed, Alonzo W. Fortune, a historian of the liberal Disciples, correctly summarized the matter when he wrote:
There were two different interpretations of the church which inevitably came into conflict. There were those who believed the church should move on with the rest of the world and adapt the spirit of New Testament conditions to conditions that were ever changing. They held that, when not forbidden by the New Testament, they were free to adapt their program to changing needs.

On the other hand, there were those who believed the matter of the church was fixed for all time, and the fact that certain things were not sanctioned was sufficient ground for rejecting them. The men on both sides were equally honest, but they had a different approach to these issues that were raised” (A. W. Fortune, The Disciples in Kentucky, pp. 364, 365).
It should be said of those who opposed the introduction of mechanical instruments into worship that they were not “anti-progressive,” but they were “anti-digressive”; they were opposed to any digression from what they understood to be the divinely instituted worship of God. W.E. Garrison accurately stated their position when he wrote:
…The anti-organ side did not argue that there must be explicit authority for every accessory of worship pulpits, pews, glass in the windows, stoves in the meeting house, printed Bibles and hymn-books—but only that every element of worship must be scripturally authorized. We have precept or precedent for sermon, song, prayer, scripture-reading and the Lord’s Supper, but none for instrumental music. The position is consistent enough, granted the premise that “the elements of public worship are prescribed, inclusively and exclusively” (W.E. Garrison, Religion Follows the Frontier, p. 236).

That this premise mentioned is valid is affirmed by the latter group to be the truth in the matter.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Samuel First Chronicles Sectarian part

November 7 2015, 3:15 PM 

When you lie To God and About God He always posts a GOTCHA thread.

The command is to SPEAK that which is written for our LEARNING: with that the progressives having lost eyes and ears cannot PARSE the word Disciple and Learner into any kind of patten.

God did NOT--by Purpose Driven--supply ANY metrical Scriptures.
Therefore, any musical invasion of the School of Christ where Jesus said "come out of them and LEARN of Me." They cannot grasp that ME is not THEE.

Having secretly given up on the Bible which repudiates any form of music they ADD historic theology as ONE of the ways the "spirit" speaks to them. Again, whatever you write about church history, it is ALL connected to monkish men and women stationed at one of the NAVELS where clergy kept watch to make certain that their gods didn't cut themselves loose and move to a better NAVEL: These navels were normally financed by the RICH to intimidate the SERFS. If they had a god on their side who could deny the master's right to, according to Bede, take a tithe or one "pat" of butter out of the dairy maid's ten "pats." In today's institution they may take your grandmothers wedding ring to build a performance NAVEL.

In almost all congregational sittings, the worship such as "music teams leading you into the presence of God" PERFORMS the worship and you are the AUDIENCE. North Atlanta says: WE will OFFER a variety of worship experiences.

Once you have made that CONFESSION it does not matter what you do because Jesus and the Lambs would have been moved to a SAFE HOUSE while the muses (locusts) led by Abaddon takes those OF THE WORLD VIEW CAPTIVE and will never let them loose.

Psalmody in the Reformation

With the Protestant Reformation of the sixteenth century came the thrust to involve all worshipers, not just the clergy, in the music of worship. But there were differences among the Reformation movements over the type of music that should be used in worship. The German-speaking Lutherans and pietists developed a tradition of hymnody, producing chorales with freely composed devotional texts. They also made greater use of instruments, especially the organ.

The French-speaking Calvinists of Geneva held a stricter view of what was acceptable in worship and limited their music to the biblical psalms, New Testament hymns and a few other portions of Scripture. Excluding instruments
was a corollary of the Reformed stress on the responsibility
of the congregation, as a whole, for the expression of worship instead of trained professionals.

But musical conventions had changed with the Renaissance, and people were now familiar with secular music marked off by measures instead of unmeasured chanting.

To enable the congregation to join in the psalms, it was necessary to recast them into a singable metrical structure and to introduce rhyme. However, the Calvinist emphasis on the authority of the Word of God rendered this practice problematic, for it required altering the biblical text, destroying the Hebrew parallelism. The stated goal became to produce singable psalmody while changing the words of the Bible as little as possible, though in actual practice the best results were often obtained through more than a slight alteration. The Genevan Psalter (first edition 1542) set a high standard for the metrical psalters that were to follow in the Reformed churches of Holland, England and Scotland. Many of the tunes used in later editions were composed by Louis Bourgeois, some of which (including Old Hundred, the familiar "Doxology") are still in use.


That's good because there is not a single command, example or remote inference of God calling the godly people into asssembly on their REST day to spend some time in SKHOLE. That included Reading, Resting and Rehearsing the Word. The ABSOLUTE NEW TESTAMENT PATTERIN WAS/IS.

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that PREACH him, being READ in the synagogues every sabbath day.
2Cor. 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the READING of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
Col. 4:16 And when this epistle is READ among you, cause that it be READ also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise READ the epistle from Laodicea.

There was never in the history of God's People any kind of musical performance when HIS Word is being read: reading or listening is what a DISCIPLE-STUDENT does. If you are OFFERED a musical performance you are one of the DAUGHTERS of the REFORMATION because the Catholics did not introduce congregational singing. Nor did they introduce playing the organ to accompany congregational singing.

The Renaissance was guided by making the Classics Available. However, no one can read any of the classics and think that any kind of religious music was anything but "men who set their lies to melodies to deceive the simple minded." Plato notes that the ENLIGHTENED read the original documents.



 
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