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Bill
(no login)
74.179.203.211

Re: Hallelujah

October 31 2015, 10:07 AM 

Dianna, what specific hymns do your friends think are teaching error? Are there any hymns that you think are teaching error? For example, the lyrics to "Holy, Holy, Holy" say "God in three persons, blessed Trinity." According to your interpretation of Scripture (not what anyone else thinks), does that hymn teach error?

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.203.211

Re: Hallelujah

November 1 2015, 10:25 AM 

I've heard of some people who refuse to sing "Christ Arose" ("Low in the Grave He Lay") before taking the Lord's Supper. They say that song is about Christ's resurrection whereas the Lord's Supper is about His death (as if the two were mutually exclusive), so it is "wrong" (yea sinful) to sing that song in that situation. Of course, those people seem to forget that the lyrics refer to Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

And then I've also heard of people who refuse to sing "There Is Sunshine in My Soul Today" on cloudy, rainy days. They say that since the song mentions "sunshine," then it is "wrong" (yea sinful) to sing that song on days that are not filled with bright sun and clear skies.

The bottom line: those people don't have enough worthwhile projects to occupy their time. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Hallelujah

November 1 2015, 3:17 PM 

Jesus commanded and Paul repeated HOW to observe the Lord's Supper and it was to show forth or PREACH the DEATH of Jesus. If you remember the DEATH of Jesus and His command to teach and observe what HE commanded then you will not have to use music to try to create an artificial sadness and elation. Why quibble with the PATTERN which never included music for ANY assembly of the SCHOOL. You cannot remember Jesus and His death if you give all of your attention to the leader's performance and using all of your might to DO YOUR PART. If it offends people then why deliberately offend people. Like all human songs OPPOSITE to the word it may teach some errors:

1. Low in the grave he lay, Jesus my Savior,
waiting the coming day, Jesus my Lord!

He didn't lay low in a grave: he laid on a stone shelf quite high.

Refrain:
Up from the grave he arose;
with a mighty triumph o'er his foes;

I thought that He quietly slipped away so that even the observers and even the apostles did not at first believe.

he arose a victor from the dark domain,
and he lives forever, with his saints to reign.
He arose! He arose! Hallelujah! Christ arose!

Jesus will return the throne to the ONE GOD Who let him rule over the church or little flock he collected.

Repeating punch lines over and over is the definition of a LADED BURDEN.


2. Vainly they watch his bed, Jesus my Savior,
vainly they seal the dead, Jesus my Lord!
(Refrain)

3. Death cannot keep its prey, Jesus my Savior;
he tore the bars away, Jesus my Lord!

There were no BARS: it was A stone.

So, why sing over and over a song written by a sentimental poet and REPUDIATE the command to TEACH that which is written for our learning. Using any kind of music to SET THE MOOD is the definition of SORCERY.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.203.211

Re: Hallelujah

November 1 2015, 5:37 PM 

I think the lyricist for "Christ Arose" used quite a few metaphors for their poetic beauty. For example, yes, we know that a stone covered the mouth of Christ's tomb, yet Christ metaphorically tore away the "bars" of death. If we rail at hymns just because they are filled with poetic metaphors, we obviously don't have much worthwhile projects to occupy our time. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Hellelujah

November 1 2015, 6:52 PM 

Worse is when a soloist or the "Worship Leader's" "Praise Team sings it for you or the congregation to make it sound more musically beautiful.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Hallelujah

November 1 2015, 8:44 PM 

A metaphor is used to enhance God's Word: To say that Jesus raised himself and there is no such concept as the "bars of death" why would people be so anxious to lie to God and about God. I suggest that most elders are not "pointed to" as already laboring to the point of exhaustion in preaching and teaching and, in my experiences, most are not even interested.

1Pet. 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.

Acts 13:33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:“ ‘You are my Son; today I HAVE BECOME your Father.’

Rom. 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Gal. 1:1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—
Gal. 1:3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal. 1:4 who gave himself for our sins to RESCUE us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,


Why would grown men claim unique authority and then willingly lie to people which is more fatal than failing to TEACH THAT WHICH HAS BEEN TAUGHT. Has Been may need another grammar lesson from Donnie.

If you deny that Jesus Christ (not god words) came fully IN THE FLESH and not, say Shelly-Lucado in a "veil of light" then you do not tell the truth because God has tongue-tied you. For ever more, saith the raven. That's why people stutter by repeating a phrase over and over--and pay them too.

When you finish the battle over the BLUE book or the GOLD book or the RED book and leave out the HOLY BOO0K then you are MARKED for avoidance. Hymns are prayers so that a Song Book is a PRAYER BOOK.

We remember the DEATH of Jesus as the only thing called PREACHING for the Lord's Supper because HE GAVE HIMSELF and died which SHOULD put to silence anyone who would try TO EXPLAIN GOD to Himself.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Hallelujah

November 2 2015, 10:34 AM 

Good humour!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Hallelujah

November 3 2015, 12:58 AM 

Scripture,

There's a female member of the Praise Team who has a very beautiful voice especially when she sings: "Oh, how He loves you; oh, how He loves me; oh, how He loves you and me." So, she is a great soloist. She was lead singer during the Lord's Supper recently. Here's a bit of humour -- the beautiful singing was a distraction[?] when thinking about Christ's suffering and death.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Hallelujah

November 1 2015, 7:04 PM 

Ken Sublett: Repeating punch lines over and over is the definition of a LADED BURDEN.

The song "Days of Elijah" is a good example of "a LADED BURDEN" song.
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah,
There's no God like Jehovah.

I think it's repeated that many times.

It is called "7-11" music -- repeat 7 words 11 times or something like that. "Days of Elijah" has exceeded the limit. happy.gif



 
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Dianna
(Login DiannaHowell)
107.77.90.89

Re: Hallelujah

November 2 2015, 12:33 PM 

I will get back with you on my response.

 
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Dianna
(Login DiannaHowell)
107.77.90.89

Re: Hallelujah

November 2 2015, 8:04 PM 

I wasn't given names, nor specific songs. I would suggest if someone has a problem they take it to the elders. I personally am studying this subject with others. I am waiting for the proof that there was actual singing and what they say we used at the start of the first century assembly. I appreciate Ken's study immensely, he has done his homework. I don't put much stock in the new breed of theologians, I've read enough of Ken's material to see that quite a few of these men have an agenda. I have tried to keep my posts in question form, or a statement of what I I have experienced. I believe there is one God, who sent his only begotten son Jesus Christ, to die on a cross for the forgiveness of our sins. If we confess that and are baptized in his name, we will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are also told to obey His commandments (to remain in Him, so He to would remain in us). This is in order to receive eternal life. See the Word of God for further instructions!

One other thing, I am keeping an open mind about the subject of singing, until I have all the evidence. I do think What Ken has presented on piney.com contains the truth about singing though, but I must give the other side a chance to present their arguments. I am also praying to our Righteous Father to guide me. Of course, I am also searching the scriptures, I know that all life's questions are answered there!

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.203.211

Re: Hallelujah

November 3 2015, 9:51 AM 

Thank you, Dianna. You agree with Ken that singing hymns is inappropriate, that they should be spoken or recited and not sung. OK, let's explore this a bit further. If it's wrong to sing hymns, do you believe that singing hymns puts our souls in jeopardy, that all who sing hymns are in danger of going to hell? If so, can you provide New Testament evidence that explicitly says we will be lost if we sing hymns?

 
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Rocnar
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Hallelujah

October 30 2015, 3:52 PM 



I think the Baptist coined the word "hallelujah" many years before the Campbell's arrived. In short it means "praise".

 
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Rocnar
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Hallelujah

October 30 2015, 4:24 PM 



Praise is a good thing!

********

Psalm 150King James Version (KJV)

150 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Hallelujah

October 30 2015, 9:28 PM 

(1) I've read that music and dancing are close friends. There are passages that support this friendship:

--- Exod.15 [20] And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

--- Judg.11 [34] And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

--- 1Sam.18 [6] And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music.

--- 1Sam.29 [5] Is not this David, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saul slew his thousands, and David his ten thousands?

--- 2Sam.6 [14] And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. [16] And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

--- 1Chr.15 [29] And it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing and playing: and she despised him in her heart.

--- Luke.15 [25] Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.


(2) In Psalm 150:6, it says: "Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord." Are animals and other creatures that BREATHE included in this group of worshipers?

(3) I wonder if Psalm 150 speaks of an assembly of New Testament saints; and if so, what the name of that church is.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Hallelujah

October 31 2015, 12:28 PM 

People need to be careful when they sing, hop and skip in the firmament:


7549. raw-kee´-ah; from 7554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:—firmament.
7554. r raqa{, raw-kah´; a primitive root; to pound the earth (as a sign of passion); by analogy to expand (by hammering); by implication, to overlay (with thin sheets of metal):—beat, make broad, spread abroad (forth, over, out, into plates), stamp, stretch.

[linked image]

Psa. 114:4 The mountains skipped like rams, and the little hills like lambs.
Psa. 114:5 What ailed thee, O thou sea, that thou fleddest? thou Jordan, that thou wast driven back?
Psa. 114:6 Ye mountains, that ye skipped like rams; and ye little hills, like lambs?
Psa. 114:7 Tremble, thou earth, at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the God of Jacob;


 
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Rocnar
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Hallelujah

November 1 2015, 8:09 AM 



Psalm 92:1New King James Version (NKJV)

Praise to the Lord for His Love and Faithfulness

A Psalm. A Song for the Sabbath day.


92 It is good to give thanks to the Lord,
And to sing praises to Your name, O Most High;

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Hallelujah

October 30 2015, 9:01 PM 

The word in the New Testament is Alleluia

Rev. 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying,
Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev. 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
Rev. 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Rev. 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, SAYING, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

g239. allelouia, al-lay-loo´-ee-ah; of Hebrew origin (imperative of H1984 and H3050); praise ye Jah!, an adoring exclamation: — alleluiah.

From Halal:
h1984. halal, haw-lal´; a primitive root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence, to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively, to celebrate; also to stultify:—(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool(-ish, -ly), glory, give (light), be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, (sing, be worthy of) praise, rage, renowned, shine.

h1966 meaning LUCIFER Christ called the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden is derived from Halal.

h1966. heylel, hay-lale´; from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:—lucifer.

And from Yah
3050. ahh, yaw; contraction for 3068, and meaning the same; Jah, the sacred name:—Jah, the Lord, most vehement. Compare names in “-iah,” “-jah.”

Halal with the added Chalal means to profane, to play the flute, to defile, to take one's inheritance, Pipe, player on instruments, pollute, cast as profane, prostitute.

Psa. 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.


God had turned the Jews over to worship the starry host: none of the instruments were permitted in any holy place and if David tried to play in the Holy or Most Holy Place the Levites were commanded to execute him.

All performance music in a 'holy place' is defined as polluting and in the case of David was to shout praying for God to destroy His enemies or to celebrate what He though was God slaughtering all of those who bad mouthed him.

The papers where WE have imposed "instrumental praise" is always a BOAST over those who follow the Regulative Principle or LOGOS. The performance is a stick in your eye with the boast that you can get over it or get out. Halal in that sense means that you intentionally PROFANE the holy place: that place which is never so holy that we cannot jab God with a Sax but so holy that YOU must be hear any time the doors are opened.

 
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Rocnar
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: ASK AWAY: Were you also blessed during 'worship'?

October 30 2015, 6:48 AM 



Well, no word from Jason. It's been a week since Jason invited Scripture to grab some lunch. That's just the facts people. happy.gif

Now for the gossip. happy.gif
Scripture has been spotted at the Well House? happy.gif

 
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Rocnar
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: ASK AWAY: Were you also blessed during 'worship'?

October 30 2015, 8:08 AM 

Missing and on the run? happy.gif

https----w.youtube---com/watch?[...]

____________________

Let's be patient; you may hear Jason say to you soon: "I'd love to grab lunch." happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 23.127.32.146 on Oct 31, 2015 11:43 PM


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

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Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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