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Allan Stanglin: Bobby Valentine Jay Guin-David Ditto

November 21 2015 at 12:35 PM
Ken Sublett  (Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 184.63.180.96

Jason Shepherd has followed the leaders who ASSUME heaps of authority because they are INVITED to the grand festivals and used by the NACC to spread discord among those whom they now brand ANTI-instrumentalists which is a NEW category: if you refused to FELLOWSHIP instruments and still teach the Bible and historical facts, you fall under the BAN and it is acceptable to TAKE THE AXE to your foolish teaching. By lying, cheating and stealing the property and spiritual life of godly people they are LITERALLY giving those who refuse to accept the BRAND the Lizzie Borden Therapy.

Lizzie Borden had an axe
She gave her mother 40 whacks
When she saw what she had done
She gave her father 41

Dwaine E. Dunning:

http://www.piney.com/MuDunningDownen.html

There are at least three ways to kill a tree.

You can poison it, or burn it. It might not survive if all the limbs were lopped off. But men usually choose to kill a tree by cutting down its trunk.
We take an axe or saw to it not far above the roots and "fell" that tree.

Likewise a system of doctrine may be destroyed in various ways. It might be poisoned (or sweetened in this case) by injecting a different spirit into those who hold the doctrine.

Or its various contentions may be individually or specifically refuted,
like lopping off a tree's branches one by one.


Little does he know nor can he know that he wants to take and AXE to the Spirit of Christ throughout the bible as well as all recorded history without "proof texts" until his SECT poisoned the wells by repeating the prophesied and fulfilled MOCKING Jesus instead of Listening to Him if you have any APT elders.

Strong Delusions are sent to those who do not love the Truth: the Logos as Regulative Principle which is the opposite of human enhancements. Strong Delusions are proof that the LAW OF SILENCE is refuted and all of the Phds and Phdettes and sect say AMEN! Empty chairs.

[linked image][linked image][linked image]

Reminds me of those blinders we used to put on horses


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Dec 5, 2015 5:53 PM


 
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Rocky
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108.230.196.85

Re: Rick Atchley and ACU: The Empty Chairs MARK

November 21 2015, 12:54 PM 

I have known Jay for many years. He is a home boy! Roll Tide!

Not relevant: The name is RICK ATCHLEY

We don't promote Jay Guin and His SECTARIAN Progressive Churches of Christ.

He sounds like a lawyer but the JUDGE will or maybe has already diverted Jay to the Lake of Fire. His BRIEF is typical LAWYERS and "doctors of the law take away the key to knowledge.

He hates people who post the CONTEXT of his proof texts which he scrambles into OPINIONS which are ANTI-Logos or Regulative principle

http://www.piney.com/The.Progressive.Church.Of.Christ.html

If you click on those WHITE PAPERS Jay posted on wineskins you will find my review but you will NOT be able to read the FALSE TEACHERS. I SEE:

Permission Denied
Not Found / No Access


Remember Wimpy Burgers?



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Nov 21, 2015 1:16 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
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108.230.196.85

Re: Rick Atchley and ACU: The Empty Chairs MARK

November 21 2015, 1:08 PM 



That is a lot Churches listed Ken. Have you been to one lately?

 
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Rocky
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Rick Atchley and ACU: The Empty Chairs MARK

November 21 2015, 1:41 PM 

Rick Atchley says: “Jesus never deals with the issue.

I told you that God will never let SOWERS OF DISCORD speak the truth.

THAT'S A LIE.. A Church of Christ is built upon or Educated by the Prophets and Apostles. Rick and the Phds have never read the PROPHETS who repudiate the Jacob-Cursed and God-abandoned Levites.

Christ the Rock defined the Church which met in synagogue from the wilderness onward. The Spirit OF Christ condemned music which starved the people for lack of the Word in Amos 8 and Isaiah 5. In many ways Jesus and the Apostles repudiate the musical mocking or PLAY which was BEYOND REDEMPTION. The Assembly

The assembly quarantined the godly people from the Atchley-Pattern of Animal slaughter which God never commanded: was exclusive of vocal or instrumental rejoicing or Atchley Rhetoric.

The ANTI-instrumental advocates must speak where Jesus never did. You would think He would if this was worth splitting His church over.”

THAT'S EVIL: "vocal or instrumental rejoicing or rhetoric was OUTLAWED" for the Church of Christ (the Rock) in the wilderness. The one-piece pattern was to REST from the usual seventh-day worship of the starry hosts, to READ the Word and Rehearse or remember the Word."

Jesus commanded that Christians-Disciples-Students teach and observe what HE commanded to be taught. If Jesus DIDN'T speak then you would think that Atchley would NOT THINK that imposing instruments is WORTH SPLITTING the Church: He-they did the SPLITTING but he cannot OWN the fact that God hates the music in the "holy places" and He hates men who sow discord.

Atchley's chairs are EMPTY because He cannot accept that JESUS is on the Throne: in prophecy and fulfillment Christ connected instruments to Lucifer the singing and harp-playing prostitutes. Too bad his throne is empty: that's the meaning of predestination of those who HAD deceived the Whole world once: they are OF the World or Ecumenical and God HIDES from them.

Comparing the Throne of Christ to empty chairs and having thousands go away believe it is the MARK we have been watching far. The BEAST is "a new or sudden style of music or Satyric Drama" like debating with EMPTY CHAIRS for goodness sake!!!

They ALL repeat like parrots: Jesus didn't say DON'T use musical instruments when He promised to give REST to those OUTSIDE of the masses to "COME LEARN OF ME." Because all of the LOGOS Words speak of the Regulative principle which outlaws personal opinions, personal experiences, rhetoric, singing, playing instruments, the Christ in Isaiah says that "If they do NOT Speak that which is written THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.

[linked image]



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Nov 21, 2015 5:41 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Bobby Valentine ANTI Regulative Principle: ANTI Christ

November 21 2015, 6:50 PM 

There is just a small band of men Purpose Driven to Destroy the Historic Church. Because Jesus was the Visible-Audible manifestation of God as LOGOS or Regulative Principle they, as John Mark Hicks notes,"don't ignore the Bible but depend on Theology." We have noted that THEOLOGY is a Word devoted almost totally to Apollon-Abaddon who was the leader of the Locusts meaning MUSES known as dirty adulteresses assuming the role of SHEPHERDESSES. He is the defacto Leader of the Musicians John calls SORCERERS who will be CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

It is easy to fool the latest spawn of preachers who have been carefully groomed (as Mike Cope's new job) to divert them into neo-paganism based on rank ignorance of and hostility to the Word or LOGOS principle: they ditto head the comments and denounce Zwingli for something universally taught by the God of the "obsolete" Bible.

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Rick Atchley and ACU: Bobby Valentine Ditto

November 21 2015, 7:14 PM 

There is nothing said about singing with or without an instrument when God gathers the GODLY for SKHOL.

The Text and common decency is filled with the need to be SILENT. If you are going to violate the direct command to SPEAK that which is written for our learning and sing the silly ditties of the "praise leader" you cannot be interested in even EDUCATION in your singing:

Four different groups
Singing four different sets of words
At four different times
To four different times.

[fact] And "did you hear that alto: too slow, she gotta go."

However, Paul demanded just the opposite of singing as a mind-control act:

That ye put off concerning the former conversation (being busy about) the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts (longing after); Ephesians 4:22

And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; Ephesians 4:23

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Ephesians 4:24

Wherefore putting away lying, SPEAK every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Ephesians 4:25

The Spirit OF Christ breathed on or inspired the Prophets
A Church is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles.
Both Prophets, Jesus and the Apostles repudiate the cunning craftsmen or sophists meaning speakers, singers or instrument players; they are all noisy children "making the lambs dumb before the slaughter."

[linked image]
[linked image]

THAT is the meaning of a HERETIC or SECTARIAN in an evil sense.

The WILL be "making music" as loud noise of voice or instruments when the last TRUMPET VOICE gives notice. I can't be certain but the TIME and world conditions are perfect that the INVASION of the TRUMPETERS in peaceable churches MIGHT have been SOUNDED. It is KAIROS time to mount the LAST ATTACK. Certainly Jesus said that God HIDES from the wise or sophists: speakers, singers or instrument players ENHANCING the power to pick the widow's purse. And the BEAST is defined for readers as "A new style of music and Satyric Drama" that "cappella" or Goat invasion.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Nov 21, 2015 7:21 PM


 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Rick Atchley and ACU: Bobby Valentine Ditto

November 21 2015, 8:27 PM 

Bobby Valentine following the mantra of the discorders speaks of Zwingli focusing upon the notion of the "law of Christ." Rejecting Catholic additions "Zwingli introduced the Regulative Principle." Audible singing was to be REJECTED in worship on the same principle as instruments--because there was no Divine Pattern."

The false notion often notes that the normal use of instruments was suddenly REJECTED because of a legalistic, patternistic theology. Legalism is used in the Greek text EXCLUSIVELY of speakers,singers, instrument players, actors, dancers or jesters: they ALL must be talented, follow the LAWS laid down by the state (or worship leader), practiced for years, rehearsed often, presented for hire (money or glory) and JUDGED according to strict laws.

Literate people including the Bible Period onward knew that there was no "musical" content because it was OUTLAWED for the Synagogue and repudiated by all of Scripture for God's assemblies. Outlawing in the wilderness was for those so irreverent as to introduce speaking or "vocal or instrumental rejoicing" when the PATTERN for the assembly was inclusive of Rest, Reading and Rehearsing the Word.

They also knew that the ONE PIECE PATTERN WAS
To SPEAK that which is written for out LEARNING
ALL of the LOGOS (regulative principle) speak words are the OPPOSITE of ODE.
To that end God supplied NO lyric poetry set to any kind of music.
Not even the Catholics ever engaged in "congregational singing" and the organ in rare cathedrals were used only for processionals, intermissions and recessionals: never to ENHANCE chanting the Word.

God laid a rat trap for false teachers:

In the 16th century, Protestant churches encouraged congregational psalm singing by adopting metrical versions in the vernacular. An important early translation was Clèment Marot's, the basis of the Calvinist psalter. A repertory of tunes came into being; these were set in a simple chordal style in collections which included Loys Bourgeois's complete psalter (1563), widely recognized as a standard version. Some later settings were more contrapuntal; Le Jeune and others dropped the tunes and composed what amounted to free motets.


That's MUCH to early to use all of the RACA words to say that REJECTING those imposing instruments are SPLITTING THE CHURCH.

Plutarch in Symposium

participate not altogether inarticulately and insignificantly.

But if the greater part consists of such who can better endure the noise of any bird, fiddle-string, or piece of wood than the voice of a philosopher,

Just so, when philosophers midst their cups dive into minute and logical disputes, they are very troublesome to those that cannot follow them through the same depths; and those that bring in idle songs, trifling disquisitions, common talk, and mechanical discourse destroy the very end of conversation and merry entertainments, and abuse Bacchus.

 
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Rocky
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108.230.196.85

Re: Rick Atchley and ACU: Bobby Valentine Ditto

November 21 2015, 11:02 PM 


Ken, no one will ever know! happy.gif

https://twitter.com/JayGuin

 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Rick Atchley and ACU: Bobby Valentine Ditto

November 22 2015, 1:25 AM 

Rocky,

Would you make it easy for readers who have a very limited time to read pages of info? Give us a "Reader's Digest" version of what you're trying to say.

 
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Rocky
(Login .Rocky)
108.230.196.85

Who Will Keep This Turd Afloat?

November 22 2015, 9:54 AM 


Donnie, consider it DONE.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Jay Lies-Rocky Flies

November 22 2015, 12:39 PM 

I will take up just one of Jay Guinn's blasphemy which is saying that God says something He did not say. This is also and example of Jay despising A verse and then JUSTIFYING those God refuses to justify.

Jay Guin: Does God save the improperly baptized? Yes — we can rest assured that,

How does Jay Guin know that: why the rush to SAVE anyone not just TRUSTING the clear statements of GOD'S Holy Spirit? We are washed with water INTO the Word or INTO the School of Christ: Jay-they want you to believe that YOUR believing gives you a punched ticked on the Joy Buss to Heave.

despite OUR poor baptismal teaching

Just quoting what Christ prophesied and Jesus etal commanded is not OUR views.

and even our denial that the Spirit enters the convert at baptism,

Paul etal said that we receive the GIFT OF A holy spirit: Jay thinks that he has a "people" in him refuting what Jesus taught.

God saves our imperfectly baptized converts, just as he saves imperfectly baptized converts in OTHER denominations.That’s what God does. For those with faith, he forgives our sins and overlooks our errors.

(Gen 15:6 ESV) 6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.


Righteousness is NOT salvation, remission of sins, or translated by Jesus into HIS church.

A righteous or justified person is one who is NOT disqualified from being baptized. We are justified or "made pure" by THE FAITH of Jesus Christ in the same way that Peter was told that SWINE are not IMPURE. The Jews denied that Gentiles COULD be baptized TO BE SAVED because they are impure. Jay could care less about the QUESTION before he makes up his ANSWER.

But this is how God defines justification by FAITH as opposed to BY LAW

Gen 26:4 And I will make thy SEED to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

We are not a son of God and Abraham UNTIL we have been baptized INTO Christ. Those who deny that are NOT sons of God.

THE FAITH is always contrasted with THE LAW: Abraham was not JUSTIFIED by LAW because the PROMISE was 400 years BEFORE the Law. Jay-They never read the PROPHECY which Jesus and the Apostles CERTIFIES:

Gen 26:5 BECAUSE that Abraham
.....obeyed my voice,
.....and kept my charge,
.....[kept] my commandments,
.....[kept] my statutes,
.....and [kept] my laws.

Gen 26:6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar: [obeyed God's commandment]


Those who LIE together FRY together.

Yes, Abraham was JUSTIFIED by being a DOER and not being a "wet noodle."

Now that we have caught Jay and THEY in despising God's word and PASSING JUDGMENT on those who do NOT OBEY the gospel, we will pause knowing that Jay will DESPISE the Spirit by trying to speak for Him.

 
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Rocky
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108.230.196.85

School Days Waaay Back When...

November 22 2015, 8:51 AM 


Ken is the one wearing the funny hat. happy.gif

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: School Days Waaay Back When...

November 22 2015, 12:45 PM 

I have been there done that without the hat.

That's where I learned to read BLACK text WHITE paper. That was in Jay Guin ANTI land.

http://www.piney.com/Erasmusfolly.html

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: School Days Waaay Back When...

November 22 2015, 2:26 PM 

Jay Guin states: (Gen 15:6 ESV) 6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

We have noted that JAY-NOR-THEY know the difference between righteousness or being justified and having OUR SINS WASHED AWAY: The purpose is not to determine eternal destiny but to save us FROM the Crooked Race or VIPERS must REPENT as a CONDITION for being baptism.

Rom. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled [justified] to God by the death of his Son,
much more, being reconciled,
we SHALL be saved by his life.

1Pet. 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the HOUSE of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God


The House of God is the Church (body, kingdom) of Christ:

ONLY those who obeyed the good news and were baptized were added to the Church:

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the CHURCH daily such as should be saved. [were being saved at baptism]


Being CONVERTED is parallel to BEING SAVED or turned back to our infant condition:

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, THAT your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Peter says that our SINS are BLOTTED out at Baptism because we REQUEST it. We receive A new BREATH or SPIRIT from God WHEN sins are removed from our UNholy spirit.

G403. anapsuxis, an-aps´-ook-sis; from 404; properly, a recovery of breath, i.e. (figuratively) revival: — revival

404. anapsucho, an-aps-oo´-kho; from 303 and 5594; properly, to cool off, i.e. (figuratively) relieve: — refresh.

5590.psuche, psoo-khay´; from 5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit,

Rom. 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye WERE the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom. 6:18 Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


Jay-and-the say, NOPE! we are saved by OUR FAITH and baptism is just a SYMBOL.

Peter says that BAPTISM SAVES US: That is the INSTRUMENTAL MEANS and most religionists do not want you to go there.

REPENTANCE is a CONDITION for being baptism.
Then baptism is FOR or IN ORDER that their sins be remitted.

The same thing happened in Acts 2:38 when the GIFT OF A holy spirit or A good conscience gave them the POWER to read black text on brown paper.

Jay-they don't have any NEED to tell you the REST OF THE STORY.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Nov 22, 2015 2:57 PM


 
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Kensublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Why our faith does NOT replace baptism FOR the remission of sins

November 22 2015, 7:24 PM 

Jay Guin states: (Gen 15:6 ESV) 6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

Dave wanted to discuss Jay Guin but seems not. Jay is saying that Abraham believed God and THAT means that we and others are SAVED (not the meaning of righteousness) and even those who call The Spirit OF CHRIST (Isaiah-Malicah), the example of Jesus after which God pronounced Him His Son, the command of Jesus and the whole Bible liars are SAVED (good as us) if they simply BELIEVE. Unfortunately for the whole swarm of theologians the word PISTIS or trust INCLUDES to COMPLY with what or whom we TRUST.

Believeth-Nots are APISTOS means "I will NOT comply, a person in revolt or a treacherous person. Jesus SUMMED UP THE SAVED as those who Believe AND are baptized: everyone else is EXCLUDED.

Jay picks is passage and then presumes high authority to pronounce the TRUE meaning intending to denounce those he claims to lead.

Paul had many examples of being saved by THE FAITH as opposed to his READERS insisting on being saved by THE LAW and, like Genesis 26, justification by faith means that one KEEPS all of the commands from God. Abraham was not SAVED by faith only because HE WAS NOT LOST: sin was not imputed before the LAW.

1Cor. 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised.
.....Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
1Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is NOTHING, and uncircumcision is nothing,
.....but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you,
.....whosoever of you are justified by THE LAW
.....ye are fallen from grace.
Gal. 5:5 For we through THE SPIRIT wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.


Jay Guin justifies the use of "Instrumental Music" by quoting

(2Sa 6:5 ESV) 5 And David and all the house of Israel were making merry before the LORD, with songs and lyres and harps and tambourines and castanets and cymbals.
(1Ch 15:16 ESV) 16 David also commanded the chiefs of the Levites to appoint their brothers as the singers who should play loudly on musical instruments, on harps and lyres and cymbals, to raise sounds of joy.

--The purpose of worship was established by God’s purposes for his elect people. The means of worship was determined, not by the silences of the Law of Moses, but by what would accomplish those purposes in that time and place.

--Indeed, God through David was pointing Israel toward the new covenant — a covenant defined not by a book of law but by a living Spirit —


This was NOT part of the Law of Moses: God did not command king, kingdom, the temple, slaughter of innocent animals, burnt offerings, priests, levites or the "prophesying with instruments" which is defined as soothsying or sorcery. God gave them kings in His anger and took them away in His anger because they wanted to WORSHIP LIKE THE NATIONS or Gentiles. The Jews were abandoned to worship the starry host: sorry they missed reading Acts 7.

The GODLY people were quarantined from the SEVENTH day almost always the worship of the STARRY HOST to which God abandoned Israel BECAUSE of instrumenntal-trinitarian worship. God restricted the people to keep them FROM the Jews worship which "profaned" the sabbath but it didn't matter. The people from Exodus 18 onward were to Rest, Read and Rehearse the Word: giving attention to the Word is the only "worship" concept for those God has not abandoned.

He does not know that God did NOT command animal sacrifices and the levites were Jacob-cursed and God abandoned: Jacob warned NOT to enter into their covenant nor attend their synagogues.

Jesus told the woman at the well (without a phd) that worship was IN Spirit and IN Truth: IN spirit is a PLACE and TRUTH is Reading the Word of God.

The Letter of the Word is written on paper while SPIRIT determines what it MEANS.

For example, Paul Commanded that we

SPEAK that which is written for our learning including the History recorded in Psalms.
Jay Guin does not know the SPIRIT or the meaning of the Word because He-They say that
Paul commanded that we SING just about anything and sing AND make music with a harp.

The LETTER which the Jews knew even when disobeying it was not what God wanted in the ONLY Spiritual Covenant made by God in Christ to ABRAHAM.

Gal. 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value.
.....The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Gal. 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

Counts prae-pūtĭum (foreskin) circumcidite praeputium cordis vestri, do away with impurity, Laet. 4, 17, 8; Vulg. Jer. 4, 4.

Jeremiah 4:[4] Circumcise yourselves to Yahweh, and take away the foreskins of your heart, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn so that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

Jer. 4:11 At that time shall it be said to this people and to Jerusalem, A dry wind [h7307 SPIRIT] of the high places in the wilderness toward the daughter of my people, not to fan, nor to cleanse,
Jer. 4:12 Even a full wind from those places shall come unto me: now also will I give sentence against them.
Jer. 4:13 Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.
Jer. 4:14 O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?


Wash is Lavo or Luo or Loutron. Baptism achieves what God intends: Naaman was cleansed literally but the ceremonial washings were defined by Paul when he went to Jerusalem to explain TRUE remission risking his life.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
Acts 22:18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
Acts 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:


And Jay-and-They say NOT SO LORD! I am special I choose to just BELIEVE and not bring down the wrath of Satan on me.

Then as now the masses would try to destroy anyone bringing the direct commands from Jesus as Spirit guiding Paul into all truth. We call upon the Name WHEN were are baptized IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ.

A New Creation means "born again" or receive A new, holy breath or spirit

2936. kti÷zw ktizo, ktid´-zo; probably akin to 2932 (through the idea of proprietorship of the manufacturer); to fabricate, i.e. found (form originally): — create, Creator, make.
2937. kti÷siß ktisis, ktis´-is; from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively): — building, creation, creature, ordinance.

crĕo to bring forth, produce, make, create, beget


Next, we need to see Spiritual Circumcision is performed: it is NOT by faith only.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Nov 22, 2015 10:05 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Rick Atchley and ACU: Bobby Valentine Jay Guin-David Ditto

November 23 2015, 10:42 AM 

When God washed the filth out of Jerusalem with the SPIRIT of judgment and the SPIRIT of burning, the gospel sent to "all nations" was to the tiny remnant of Jews who had not bowed to Baal and to the Gentiles.

The Gentiles who were justified by THE FAITH lived by the universal principle of the Law (not to be confused with the laws of the God-abandoned Monarchy) honoring God and practicing Justice. John prepared that remnant of 120 Jews still living in Jerusalem.

The Spirit OF Christ revealed that the only way to CUT OFF sin is at baptism BECAUSE that is how 1 Peter 3 says that we REQUEST A good conscience, consiousness or a CO PERCEPTION so we can BEGIN AS A NEW STUDENT.

Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:


That means RELIGIOUS OBSERVATION or Operations of any hypocritic or performing role which is the MARK of strong delusions. A Church of Christ RESTS and comes to listen to the word PREACHED by being READ and learned: The Progressives want to WORK people to a frazzle so THEY do not have to work being fed out of the widow's purse.

Jay-and-They THINK that the Godhead means a God with THREE heads. Godhead is being filled or COMPLETE with the Divine Nature. Faith only fills you with your own self but those filled or complete with the divine nature must STOP being in rebellion and ASK for A good conscience or A holy spirit so they CAN read the text.

Col. 2:10 And ye are COMPLETE IN him, which is the head of all principality and power:


Statement:
Col. 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:


Parellism to REVEAL to the godly and HIDE from the wise, sophists or self-speakers, singers or instrument players:

Col. 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Col. 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col. 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


In Ephesians 2 we are saved BY Grace THROUGH faith meaning ongoing FAITHFULNESS. They Had Been saved from what Jay wants to fill us with:

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This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Nov 23, 2015 11:16 AM


 
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Ken Sublett
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Re: Rick Atchley and ACU: Bobby Valentine Jay Guin-David Ditto

November 23 2015, 12:55 PM 

Five Steps

Did you notice that went through all this material about how to be saved and didn’t mention the Five-Step Plan of Salvation? It’s not that I disagree all that much. Rather, I just think it helps to see salvation in terms of faith — which is how the New Testament teaches it — so that we aren’t constrained by tradition. It helps to sometimes see familiar things from a new perspective. It might even help us understand our traditions better.

For example, in the Five-Step Plan, we manage to get all the way through it and not mention Jesus: Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess, Be Baptized. Not a word about Jesus — not until we take the trouble to define our terms.


Jay wants you to believe that the LEGALISTS just preach five steps and never preach the gospel. He wants you to believe that no one is asked the question "Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ the son of God." He wants you to believe that the STEPS or a LOGICAL sequence is not necessary because we are saved just by BELIEVING whereas FAITH or faithfulness demands COMPLIANCE

Scott: Three steps of human action:
1. Faith to change the heart. A deep trust. : This is more than just agreeing something is true. It involves commitment and deep trust. It's something we build our lives around. We believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the Living God and is our Lord and Savior.
2. Repentance to change the life. We recognize that we have missed the mark, have separated and alienated ourselves from God and from our fellow human being, and by doing this have disobeyed God. We confess this freely and vow to turn from this way of living.
3. Baptism to change the state. We offer ourselves for baptism by immersion. This represents our death (to old self), burial, and resurrection (toa new life in Jesus Christ). This is also reminiscent of the baptism of Jesus in the Jordan River by John the Baptizer.

Two steps are from God AFTER we have been baptized.

4. Remission of sins to cleanse the guilt.
5. The gift of the Holy Spirit to make one a participant in the Divine Nature.

Scott defined "the gift of the holy spirit" as OUR spirit which is A holy spirit after "our sins have been washed away." Peter calls this A good conscience.

Rom. 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise,
......say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven?
......(that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Rom. 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Rom 10:8 But what saith it?
......The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth,
......and in thy heart: that is,
......the word of FAITH,
......which we PREACH;

Rom 10:9 That if thou
......shalt CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
......and shalt BELIEVE in thine heart
......that God hath RAISED him from the DEAD,
......thou shalt be saved. [Jay says HAVE BEEN]

RECYCLE ONE
Rom 10:10 For with the heart
......man believeth unto righteousness; and
......with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Faith makes a God fearing person have the right standing: not ceremonially impure
But, Confession is unto salvation. Faith only would not save you says this verse.

RECYCLE TWO
belief, call upon the name, must believe, must hear, preachers must be sent:
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith,
...... Whosoever BELIEVETH on him
......shall NOT be ASHAMED.
Now, NOT ASHAMED is not the opposite of BEING SAVED (by faith only).

Rom 10:12 For there is NO DIFFERENCE between the Jew and the Greek:
Rom 10:13 for the SAME Lord over all is rich unto all THAT CALL UPON HIM.
......For whosoever shall CALL upon the NAME of the Lord shall be saved.

Peter preached this in Acts 2: God calls us and we call upon the name of the Lord to be saved. When they asked what must WE DO to be saved, Peter commanded them to repent AND be baptized FOR or in order to the remission of sins.

WHAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD

......Example One. Acts 2:38 baptism is into the NAME or calling upon the name.
......Example Two. Acts 22:16 Baptism washes away sins because it CALLS upon the Name.
......Example Three: 1 Pe 3:21 Baptism saves because it ASKS for A good conscience or A holy spirit.

How then shall they call on him in whom
...... they have not BELIEVED? and

...... how shall they believe in him of whom they have not HEARD? and
...... how shall they hear without a PREACHER (Kerusso Herald)? Rom 10:14

SEEMS THAT CALVIN IS CORRECT: NO ONE HEARS THE SPIRIT OR BELIEVES WITHOUT HEARING THE WORD.

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach (Go and herald),
...... except they be sent? as it is written,
...... How beautiful are the FEET of them that
...... preach the gospel of peace, and BRING glad tidings of good things

NOW NOTICE THAT HE THAT OBEY THE GOSPEL IS THE ONE WHO HATH BELIEVED

But they have
......not all OBEYED the GOSPEL. For Esaias saith, Lord,
...... who hath BELIEVED our report? Rom 10:16
So then FAITH cometh by HEARING, and hearing by the WORD of God. Rom 10:17

But I say, Have they not heard?
......Yes verily, their sound WENT INTO all the earth,
......and their words unto the ends of the world. Rom 10:18
But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. Rom 10:19
But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was MADE MANIFEST unto them that asked not after me. Rom 10:20
But to Israel he saith,
......All day long I have stretched forth my HANDS
......unto a DISOBEDIENT and GAINSAYING people. Rom 10:21

You are an APISTOS or believeth not which means treacherous if you do not believe that
He that believeth and is baptized SHALL BE saved.

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Jay Guin and the Five Steps

November 23 2015, 6:03 PM 

All of Romans 10 Revisited. Jay Guin claims that we leave TRUST out of our STEPS. Repentance which means to make a U turn is not listed. However, baptism is not a SYMBOL of repentance as Jay claims: repentance is something required BEFORE John would baptize FOR or in order to the remission of sins.

Rom. 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom. 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God,
.....but NOT ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE
Rom. 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness,
.....and going about to establish their own righteousness,
.....have not SUBMITTED themselves unto the righteousness of God.


Submitted refutes the FAITH ONLY theology which they get from John Calvin who never taught faith only.

5293.hupotasso, hoop-ot-as´-so; from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey: —
be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto

You cannot command people to BELIEVE. Remember that the only spiritual Covenant was made by God in Christ to Abraham. The faithless Jews wound up in the sacrificial system "worshiping the starry host" but the godly people were always faithful to the Abrahamic Covenant.

Rom. 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom. 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law,
.....That the man which DOETH those things shall live by them.
Rom. 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise,
.....Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Rom. 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)


That was Israel trusting in Instrumental and Trinitarian idolatry when they had the WORD with them.

Rom. 10:8 But what saith it?
.....The WORD is nigh thee, even in thy mouth,
.....and in thy HEARD: that is,
.....the word of FAITH,
.....which we PREACH
Rom. 10:9 That if thou shalt
.....CONFESS with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
.....and shalt BELIEVE in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom. 10:10 For with the heart man
.....BELIEVETH unto righteousness;
.....and with the mouth CONFESSION is made unto salvation.

Rom. 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom. 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
.....for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that CALL ON HIM
Rom. 10:13 For whosoever shall CALL UPON THE NAME of the Lord shall be saved.


The Only way to CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD:

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized,
and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1Pet. 3:21 The like figure whereunto even BAPTISM DOTH ALSO NOW SAVE US
.....(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
.....but the answer [Request to God for] of a good conscience toward God,)
.....by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Rom. 10:14 How then shall they CALL on him in whom they have NOT BELIEVED
.....and how shall they BELIEVE in him of whom they have not HEARD?
.....and how shall they hear without a PREACHER?
Rom. 10:15 And how shall they PREACH, except they be SENT? preach is kerusso a HERALD not on the STAFF.
.....as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the GOSPEL OF PIECE
.....and bring glad tidings of good things!


Note that the Spirit OF Christ drew a parallel between OBEYING and BELIEVING.

Rom. 10:16 But they have not all OBEYED the gospel.
.....For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath BELIEVED our report?


2Th. 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
.....and that OBEY not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1Pet. 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house [church of Christ] of God:
..... and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Rom. 10:17 So then FAITH cometh by HEARING, and hearing by the WORD OF GOD


The Word or LOGOS is the Regulative Principle: outlawing rhetoric, personal opinions, singing, playing or acting.

Rom. 10:18 But I say, Have they not HEARD?
.....Yes verily, their SOUND went into all the earth, and their WORDS unto the ends of the world.
Rom. 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith,
.....I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people,
.....and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
Rom. 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith,
.....I was found of them that sought me not;
.....I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
Rom. 10:21 But to Israel he saith,
.....All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a DISOBEDIENT and GAINSAYING people.

g483. antilego, an-til´-eg-o; from 473 and 3004; to dispute, refuse: — answer again, contradict, deny, gainsay(-er), speak against.


To be ANTI Regulative principle is to be ANTI Logos or ANTI Christ.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Nov 23, 2015 6:09 PM


 
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Jay Guin and the Five Steps: Trust

November 23 2015, 10:51 PM 

Jay Guin says that we never have the STEPS in one place: we don't need them because they define a LOGICAL Progress from knowing nothing to being baptized INTO Christ or being "Washed with water INTO the Word" or into the School of Christ. You don't get into the School of Christ (a one-piece pattern with the textbook paid for) by BELIEVING that a professor exists.

Belief means trust means to COMPLY or OBEY
Jesus puts Belief AND baptism together in order to be saved.
Believeth nots or Apistos REJECT the command to be baptized and are IN REVOLT.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Rick Atchley and ACU: Bobby Valentine Jay Guin-David Ditto

November 26 2015, 11:01 AM 

Only God knows why people gain "authority" and refuse to just "teach that which has been taught." Most religionists spend the people's money refuting even Jesus Christ in prophecy and fulfilment.

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There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

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At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

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This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
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Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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