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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Church Singing

January 9 2016, 4:20 PM 

Do you mean "Disciples of Christ" as a religious denomination? Or are you referring to followers or learners who are disciples of Christ? For example, I am (as an individual Christian) a disciple of Christ.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

January 9 2016, 5:32 PM 

H. Leo Boles on unity although his trinitarianism sowed discord.

http://www.piney.com/Unity.Boles.html

Contrary to all of the hate accusing Churches of Christ with being SECTARIAN by splitting the church over music, what be came churches of Christ were never joined in any but the usual fraternal fellowship which existed among all denominations before the introduction of societies, denominational organization and instruments (the organ only, we pledge!).

The Disciples of Christ-Christian churches especially the Stoneites agreed to disregard doctrinal differences (wow) in 1832: Their creed would have stopped any of the trouble among the Disciples. Alexander Campbell, A Reformed Baptists at the time proves that there was no unity before or after the handshake of a few preachers. This pledge was ignored before the ink was dry with both Stone and Campbell agreeing that there could ever be any unity since they held nothing but the Bible in common.

This is to dispel the probable notion that what the Disciples did or do has any relationship to the Churches of Christ who never even hallucinated a role for music as performance or the use of instruments.

The Organ developing into a larger band or orchestra and Choir pretty much disables congregational singing or ability to be heard. Most of these groups cannot handle complex harmony.

Conservative Christian churches have been driven into SPLIT WORSHIP where the organ-piano has been replaced by other instruments and singing performers. My experiences have been congregational singing in Christian Churches: the organ - piano has even been silenced when we were present.

 
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Rocky
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Church Singing

January 10 2016, 10:20 AM 


Ken, I think your beef is really with PERFORMANCE singing in the Church. Let's just leave it at that. Donnie, do you concur?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

January 10 2016, 11:50 AM 

An APT elder is commanded to Teach that which HAS BEEN TAUGHT. The elder should never use OUR preferences to substitute for that WHICH HAS BEEN TAUGHT or THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING.

The question is: Why would Disciples of Christ commanded to teach and observe what HE commanded want to fill up a large part of the assembly with singing because they truly believe that:

Singing is an ACT of God commanded
If we violate the LAW of singing we SIN
ALL singing is jacked up into PERFORMANCE with everyone racing to DO MY PART and no one worshiping God by GIVING ATTENTION to His finished songs and sermons.

If The Spirit OF Christ said that He provides the fruit of the lips
And in Isaiah 58 He commands NOT to seek our own pleasure or SPEAK OUR OWN WORDS
And Paul commanded that we "use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for out LEARNING
And Paul in Hebrews 13 commands that we use the fruit of the LIPS
Why would people hire or use the best SANGER money can buy to lead us into performing NOTHING that is supplied by being written for our LEARNING.
LEARNING in the assembly is the ONE-PIECE pattern so you don't know a church which cares much about that which is written.

[linked image]

 
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Rocky
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Church Singing

January 10 2016, 5:10 PM 



Acts 16:25 New King James Version (NKJV)

25 But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them.

***

Ken, you just can not blow this off. This verse is the "EXAMPLE" that allows Church Singing. A smart fellow (moderator) that stays up all night explained this EXAMPLE to me.

It's a wrap!


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

January 10 2016, 5:22 PM 

I thought I told you that when they cast you in prison singing and playing your guitar would be fine. I believe that there are only about 5 hymns in the book of psalms. It would be fine to make up your own but I would be careful about singing about wanting to sit in God's lap and dare to dance with him!

humn-eō , Ep. humneiō Hes.Op.2;
I. with acc. of person or thing sung OF, sing of, first in Hes.Th.11,33,
also in Prose, celebrate in a hymn, commemorate, “Ōpin” Hdt. 4.35;
humnos humnēsen” S.Ant.815
2. descant upon, in song or speech, “en katērephei stegē . . humnēseis kaka”
II. tell over and over again, harp upon, repeat, recite
ton nomon humnein recite the form of the law


People trained in an oral tradition gathered to read and memorize a passage: then they could sing to themselves all week or even on the street corners. The Jewish Holy Convocation on first and last days of festivals and later each REST day has that definition.

Why not break any passage into syllables, sing it, memorize it and next week close the Bible: after all LEARNING is about the only obligation of a DISCIPLE.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Church Singing

January 10 2016, 5:46 PM 

Oops, I didn't realize that when Paul and Silas sang, it was "church singing." Nor was the event when the disciples went out into the Mount of Olives "church singing." That reminds me also of events when David played instrumental music that it was "church singing."

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

January 10 2016, 8:41 PM 

No problem: ALL of the once-christian colleges can't get it "straight." They can lift out by the screaming roots any and all mention of any musical term or instrument and say that "s" spirit told them to OUT his vision and impose "instruments" knowing and planning that he would sow massive discord but, hey, "we gonna save more souls" or "we gonna be evangelistic even if we have to cast 2/3 of the owners out of their synagogue."

No one! Not a single "scholar" can grasp the difference between SCHOOL OF CHRIST and singing while up to your neck in prison.

They would keep Jesus from being the ONLY master teacher when the elders as the only Pastor-Teachers purpose driven to take the lambs to the GRASS so that they can eat but NOT beside rushing waters.

At the same time, their tutu would fall off if a baby cried while THEY are speaking out of their own head.

John 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself?
.....because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:23 And he said unto them,
.....Ye are from beneath; I am from above:
.....ye are of this world; I am not of this world.


As Jude warned you and almost no one catches on, below is:

katō , “hoi k. theoi” Id.El.292, cf. E.Alc.851.
Adv., (kata): b In the world below, S.Aj.660, OC1563 (lyr.), etc.; hoi k. the dead, Id.Aj.865, Ant.75, etc.;
ESPECIALLY of the nether world, A.Pers.839, S.Ant.197, etc.;
g. in Logic, ta k. the lower members in a descending series of genera and species,


The BEASTS in Genesis were not capable of being spouse of the elevated form of ADAM.

More tomorrow: remember that the Spirit OF Christ said that the Jews "had a covenant with death and Hell" and claimed that they COULD NOT be lost.

That's why they are so INSTITUTIONALIZED and promoting the WORLD VIEW or ecumenical which is the reign of Satan. Jude affirms:

Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, AND our Lord Jesus Christ.

They cannot even SEE that "AND"




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Jan 10, 2016 8:48 PM


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Church Singing

January 11 2016, 1:06 AM 

You noticed that I was responding to Rocky with the "Oops!" (I was being facetious. happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif I knew Rocky would be tolerant in that regard.)

Seriously:

Musical enthusiasts desperately look for "scriptures" that mention the word "sing" or "sang" or "singing" and conclude that the word has reference to "church singing."

(1) They consider the Paul and Silas event in prison "church singing" (and I wonder if it was a duet happy.gif ).
(2) They consider the mount of Olives event "church singing" (when the church had not been established then).
(3) They consider David's playing of musical instruments "church music" (and what was David's congregation?).

For man to command "church music" and demand that is an "act of worship" is hardly "contending for the faith once delivered unto the saints."


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 23.127.32.146 on Jan 11, 2016 1:13 AM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

January 11 2016, 12:48 PM 

Yes, I caught on to that: even when Paul uses the "singing" words in no assembly mentioned in Scripture is there any mention of "singing". So, it is never a question of can we or can't we but what does Scripture really say. Evil men have grasped upon the long-standing quiet congregational singing to make it, as the say, making "worship" into a SHOCK AND AWE spectacle. David actually commanded the PLACE:

Psa. 149:4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people:
..... he will beautify the meek with salvation.
Psa. 149:5 Let the saints be joyful in glory:
.....let them sing aloud upon their beds.


But,

Psa. 149:6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
.....and a twoedged sword in their hand;
Psa. 149:7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen,
.....and punishments upon the people;


When you use David as your PATTERN you are BLIND and DEAF by God's Direct Operation: When you have females PERFORMING and being lascivious meaning to take liberty with the language you have ARRIVED and they are taught to LOVE TO HAVE IT SO. All skilled PERFORMERS (legalists) make the modern "worship ritual" into a defacto sexual activity according to Wimber of Fuller and the wineskinners.

[linked image]

The LU Bible Guru teaches that THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THEIR WORSHIP: they just had a bad mental attitude.

Amos 6:3 Ye that put far away the evil day,
.....and cause the seat of violence to come near;
Amos 6:4 That
.....lie upon beds of ivory,
.....and stretch themselves upon their couches,
.....and eat the lambs out of the flock,
.....and the calves out of the midst of the stall;
Amos 6:5 That chant to the sound of the viol,
.....and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David;


lectus A. A bridal bed: lectus genialis, the nuptial-bed, which, after the marriage, was called adversus (because it stood opposite the door)
B. A couch for reclining on at meals, a dining- or eating-couch

lascīvĭo , ĭi, ītum, 4, v. n. lascivus,
I. [select] to be wanton, petulant, sportive, to sport, frisk, frolic, modo [the Musical Melody Word] exsultasse,
Esp.: “in Venerem,” to be lascivious, Col. 6, 24, 2.—

Amos 5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols

23] aufer a me tumultum carminum tuorum et cantica lyrae tuae non audiam

Amos 5:24 BUT let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

January 11 2016, 1:11 PM 

Psa. 149:1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
Psa. 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him:
let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
Psa. 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance:
let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Praise is h1986 Halal source of LUCIFER.

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Music makes the lambs dumb before the slaughter--or worse

January 14 2016, 6:07 PM 

The Reason Acts 7 is HIDDEN by those promoting a spectacle of musical worship might be understood by Paul understanding the instrumental-trinitian-perverse worship at Mount Sinai.

Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:
.....for it is THE power of God unto salvation
.....to every one that believeth; [trust or comply]
.....to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom. 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith:
.....as it is written, The just shall LIVE by faith.
Rom. 1:18 For the WRATH of God is revealed from heaven
.....against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
.....who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom. 1:19 Because that WHICH MAY be known of God is MANIFEST in them;
.....for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom. 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
..... being understood by the things that are made,
.....even his eternal power and Godhead; [god-like, Divine Nature]
.....so that they are without excuse:
Rom. 1:21 Because that,
.....when they knew God,
.....they glorified him not as God,
.....neither were thankful;
.....but became vain in their imaginations,
.....and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom. 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, [speakers, singers, instrument players]
.....they became fools,
Rom. 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God
.....into an IMAGE made like to corruptible man, [All Staff]
.....and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Rom. 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness
.....through the LUSTS of their own hearts,
.....to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom. 1:25 Who changed the TRUTH (Logos) of God into a lie,
.....and worshipped [Adored]and served
.....the CREATURE [Building, creation, creature, ordinance]
.....more than the Creator,
.....who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Rom. 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:
.....for even their women did change the natural use
.....into that which is against nature:
Rom. 1:27 And likewise also the men,
.....leaving the natural use of the woman,
.....burned in their lust one toward another;
.....men with men working that which is unseemly,
.....and receiving in themselves that recompence
.....of their error which was meet.
Rom. 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,
.....God gave them over to a reprobate mind,
.....to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom. 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness,
.....covetousness, maliciousness;
.....full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom. 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters,
..... inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom. 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers,
.....without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom. 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God,
.....that they which commit such things are worthy of death,
..... not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 
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Rocky
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Church Singing

January 16 2016, 11:22 AM 



[linked image]






Hang in there Boys! I'm still trying to find a local COC that does not believe in Church singing, just for you!. I'm also hearing that y'all are in need of a Bible that you can believe in. I'm working on it!

happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

January 16 2016, 12:48 PM 

Jesus told the READERS that when people told you that THEY had the kingdom captured over her or there, He said that the kingdom--and worship--is within you so if you have a Worshiper Demo Agent "providing a variety of worship experiences" then JUST MOVE ON.

He also said that the kingdom does not come with OBSERVATIONS: we told you that the Spirit OF Christ defined the Church of Christ (our Rock) in the wilderness and in the prophets and apostles both inclusive and exclusive: the Campbells restored that ONE PIECE PATTERN until the preachers said 'H no, we won't go.'

You may need a special invitation to the School of The Word because SHE is hidden for a time in the worst wilderness the world has ever known: religious spectacles at Mount Sinai and forever was PLAY or challenging the "god" to a contest of music or even war.

The Jews had a covenant with death and it is being imposed by the Synagogues of Satan: Paul uses Isaiah 28 to warn about MUSIC or SPEAKING in tongues.

Is. 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Is. 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Is. 29:17 Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?

Is. 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.


Recorded history always attributes religious music and musicians to the Devil: Jubal is the son of Cain and He is the father (DNA) of those who HANDLE musical instruments meaning "in a sexual sense and without authority"

[linked image]

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.204.63

Re: Church Singing

January 16 2016, 1:16 PM 

About a "Bible" CM can believe in:

The Bible says that Jesus is Emmanuel, "God with us," implying that Jesus is God; CM denies it, saying Jesus cannot be God.

The Bible says that the "child" (Whom we now know to be Jesus) will be Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, which implies that Jesus and God are one and the same; CM denies it.

Jesus says "I and my Father are one," implying that Jesus is God; CM denies it.

The Bible says he who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, implying that Jesus is God; CM denies it.

The Bible mentions Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which man dubs as the "Trinity"; CM says that's Catholic hooey. Though CM denies it, their theology is more along the lines of a "Binity" (God and Jesus as two separate entities with the Holy Spirit belonging to God alone ["the Holy Spirit OF God"], but apparently not to Jesus).

The Bible implies that Jesus predated his physical birth and is therefore eternal; CM denies it, saying that Jesus didn't exist until 2,000 years ago.

The Bible says there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism; CM agrees with the latter two but says there are two separate Lords.

The Bible mentions speaking in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs as well as singing and making melody in the heart, implying that speaking and singing are proper; CM ignores the singing (implying that it's wrong or improper) and focuses on the speaking.

Yeah, looks like CM needs a Bible they can trust and believe in. happy.gif


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Church Singing

January 16 2016, 8:45 PM 

Please see response on next page.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Kingdom does NOT come with religious spectacles 2

January 16 2016, 2:51 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Rocky
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Church Singing

January 16 2016, 3:41 PM 


Ken, do you believe INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC and VOCAL SINGING are NOT authorized in the Church of Christ?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

January 16 2016, 4:13 PM 

Ken, do you believe INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC and VOCAL SINGING are NOT authorized in the Church of Christ?

Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. You cannot engage in that BELIEVE thingy unless you have at least a jot or title of evidence.

Authorized is forced to believe that God supplied at least a remote hint about group singing with or without instruments. The exception is the Jews at Mount Sinai where singing, playing and other things was a SIN BEYOND REDEMPTION. The ROSE up to do battle with the God of Moses Who seems to be destroying them.

To BELIEVE that instruments or "machines for doing hard work" had any positive effect I would want to IGNORE the fact that religious instruments were, in the words of the Spirit OF Christ, brought into the garden of Eden by a "singing and harp-playing prostitute."

If ALL religious instruments are the MARK of God driving His ENEMIES into HELL or the Babylon Mother of Harlots (lusted after fruits) called SORCERERS and will be or ARE BEING CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE, they WHY would an APT ELDER have any doubt.

Jesus gave APT elders to cast out the cunning craftsmen or sophists (speakers, singers,instrument players) whom he said are LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

The revealed and preserved Holy Scriptures (especially the Prophets and Apostles) are the ONLY information abailable to define the CHRISTIAN SYSTEM. You can turn what is commanded and exampled SCHOOL OF THE WORD OF CHRIST into a "Theater for holy entertainment" if you wish but you CANNOT be a Christian-Disciple-Student commanded to teach and observe what Christ the Spirit defined in great detail and affirmed by Jesus and left for our memory by eye-- and ear--witnesses.

Jesus said that He and His Little Flock: the SECT that is called the WAY, road or pattern are FROM ABOVE.

The rest are FROM BELOW which is defined as the Netherworld. Apollon--Abaddon has, according to Jesus and John been UNLEASHED from the smokey pit and He is the king and LEADER and guiding SPIRIT of the singers and instrument players called SORCERERS.

ANYONE who suggestsany kind of musical performance litrally does get a message from a SPIRITUS. spiritum personified II. A. (Class.) A haughty spirit, haughtiness, pride, arrogance; also, spirit, high spirit, energy, courage
spiritum Phoebus [Apollon] mihi, Phoebus artem Carminis [singing and playing] dedit, poetic spirit or inspiration


Contrary to the pseudo-scholars and "progressives" the WORD does not have a statute of limitations: you are watching people MAKE WAR ON GOD and the people love to have it so.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Bill refuses to read the REST OF THE STORY.

January 16 2016, 3:50 PM 

About a "Bible" CM can believe in:

The Bible says that Jesus is Emmanuel, "God with us," implying that Jesus is God; CM denies it, saying Jesus cannot be God.

False: the Bible says that His NAME shall be called Emmanuel. There are many "gods" or eloyhim but God says that He, Jehovah is the ONLY true Elohim. The SON shall be called by the Name of His father:

The Father is Jehovah-Righted
The Son is called Jehovah-Saves.
Jehovah saves in the NAME of His Son

The Bible says that the "child" (Whom we now know to be Jesus) will be Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, which implies that Jesus and God are one and the same; CM denies it.

That's false, again and again: His NAME shall be CALLED all of these attributes: they NAMED Him JESUS and Jesus is not the name of the ONE GOD THE FATHER. They called my name KENNETH with no commentary about my being handsome.

Jesus says "I and my Father are one," implying that Jesus is God; CM denies it.

That's false: even from the context readers can detect that the Father (not the name of a God) and the Son are in agreement or UNUM. Jesus the Man and Son only speaks what the Father breathes (spirit) into Him without METRON or meter. SPEAK always excludes meter.

The Bible says he who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, implying that Jesus is God; CM denies it.

God supplied the singular man Jesus to DEBUNK the trinities. Even the disciples asked "Show us the Father." We see the TRUE Father reflected in the face of Jesus since you cannot see A Spirit.

ALL pagan triads consisted of father, spirit (mother) and little evil son.
Scripture is always the ANTITHES: All of the authority one imagines in THREE PEOPLE was GIVEN to Jesus by the FATHER. Jesus is the IMAGE of the Father as a sun beam is the image of the SUN. Go into a dark room, use a pinhole or lense and you will SEE the SUN.

2Cor. 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts,
to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God
in the FACE of Jesus Christ.

You missed reading 101 in Med School if you can't detect the difference between the ONE GOD who shines forth in the face and Word of the MAN Jesus Christ.

The Bible mentions Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which man dubs as the "Trinity"; CM says that's Catholic hooey. Though CM denies it, their theology is more along the lines of a "Binity" (God and Jesus as two separate entities with the Holy Spirit belonging to God alone ["the Holy Spirit OF God"], but apparently not to Jesus)

There no ITIES in the Bible.

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE GOD,
and one mediator between God and men, [with the Word, Logos or Light]
the MAN Christ Jesus;

The Bible implies that Jesus predated his physical birth and is therefore eternal; CM denies it, saying that Jesus didn't exist until 2,000 years ago.

The ELOHIM created, Bara or Cast Down the Heavens and Earth.
Jesus is the King over the NEW HEAVENS AND EARTH. They do not consist of billions of stars in billions of galaxies with all of the elements. The WORD or LOGOS is God's Regulative Principle which is as much God as our mind and words are US. If you say that Jesus WAS the Word then you can SEE God's REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE in the same way that we see LIGHT in the FACE of Jesus Christ. Logos is personified only by the pagans' Hermes, Mercury or Kairos.

2Pet. 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?
for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were
from the beginning of the creation.
2Pet. 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of,
that by the word of God the heavens were of old,
and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pet. 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pet. 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now
by the same word are kept in store,
reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The Bible says there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism; CM agrees with the latter two but says there are two separate Lords.

God is LORD-GOD which is to PROVE to those who are able that there are MANY gods or lords but JEHOVAH is the only TRUE God.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

When death is destroyed then Jesus will restore the Throne to the Father. There are MANY lords: just watch the performers in the morning. But to USE Jesus is the only LORD and APT elders will by definition "teach that which has ben taught."

The Bible mentions SPEAKING in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs as well as singing and making melody in the heart, implying that speaking and singing are proper; CM ignores the singing (implying that it's wrong or improper) and focuses on the speaking.

CM simply says that "There is no command, example or remote inference" of group singing with or without instruments. Jesus synagogued twice on first days of the week and NO one sang as a group. Paul synagogued many times and there is no example of singing.
The commmand is to SPEAK that which is written.
God supplied nothing for LEARNING which is metrical in the tuneful sense.
History affirms since it was after John Calvin that congregations engaged in singing. That was because the confiscated cathedrals were owned by the Civil authority and the people were accustomed to musical, instrumental and dramatic performances.

Yes, but no one can READ the fact that SPEAKING the Biblical text is ONE TO ANOTHER.
Because the LOGOS words EXCLUDE singing or playing, we read that ODE and PSALLO are in the HEART and it does not intentionally destroy the one-piece pattern as a SCHOOL OF CHRIST.

If you think you can SPEAK and SING at the same time you do not understand the difference. Singing by the Greeks was the "normal inflections of SPEECH." We SPEAK to sing: we do NOT sing to teach: it doesn't even work with little kids who come ready and eager to LEARN.

Yeah, looks like CM needs a Bible they can trust and believe in.

Bill just needs go attend sixth grade remedial reading along with all of the pseudo scholars.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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