Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  

Church Singing

December 20 2015 at 7:33 AM
Rocky  (no login)
from IP address 108.230.196.85


Is singing authorized in the Church Of Christ?

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

December 20 2015, 11:51 AM 

As far as I know SINGING is DEMANDED as a legal ACT OF WORSHIP in all SOF churches.

That is NOT the PURPOSE DRIVING this forum. There is nothing done even if by 100% of church members that can alter one jot or tittle of the Holy Scriptures--Prophets and Apostles. So since this is the DAY OF WORSHIP replacing the day of REST and SKHOLE, maybe we will be unique in the world and not use any assembly as authority. You should be allowed to use the churches in the New Testament as as example.

All churches that I am aware of insist that:

The LAW of Moses God commanded "worship" with singing and playing instruments. [that's a lie for now]
We live under a NEW LAW.
.....Group singing is commanded by The LAW OF CHRIST.
.....Playing instruments for "congregational singing" is NOT commanded.
.....Therefore, we MUST sing or violate the law of Christ and we must NOT add instrumental accompaniment because it is NOT in the NEW LAW.

 
 Respond to this message   
Rocky
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Church Singing

December 20 2015, 12:29 PM 


Ken, are you a member of the church of Christ?

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

December 20 2015, 12:57 PM 

Yes: I was baptized in an Alabama creek about 73 years ago: I began teaching when I was about 16, have been a deacon, elder and teacher in the most conservative and most liberal congregations. I have had three congregations "transistioned" away to instruments or wannabee instrumental.

However, I became a Disciple of Christ about 1980 and got into my first trouble in returning to TN when I questioned H. Leo Boles the Lipscomb INVENTOR of the "three real persons-people trinity" in 1938.

The Law of Singing (G.C.Brewer who added the shot glasses) means whatever you want to sing as long as you DO IT. This gave the instrumentalists their authority to add their own law of playing instruments c 1878. They affirmed that there is no LAW OF SINGING in the Bible as "worship." Paul commanded the word SPEAK which is opposite to ODE and PSALLO.

The Church of Christ [the Rock] was defined inclusively and exclusively in the wilderness and EXCLUDED vocal or instrumental rejoicing or any human-added speaking. Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom which Gave Him as Son the role as the only Father or Master Teacher.

To be A Church of Christ as CHRISTIAN teaching what He commanded to be taught you will be able to find an example of congregational singing: that is the DISTINCTIVE MARK of a New Testament Church.

 
 Respond to this message   
Rocky
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Church Singing

December 20 2015, 8:29 PM 



I expected as much. Ken you are the master of confusion. You are ambiguous and deceptive in your writing. Donnie is a mere apprentice compared to you. I knew it would be like this. Have a good night.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

December 20 2015, 9:01 PM 

Maybe Donnie can translate for you?

Find a command, example or remote inference of any group assembled on the REST day for Congregational singing with or without instruments as worship.


Extend that to an example until long after the Reformation. There is not a single false teacher on the "music" issue who will "give an answer" since they can fool most of the people most of the time. The rare exception are those who try to make everyone believe that you are wacko.

Is that deceptive?


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Dec 20, 2015 9:22 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Church Singing

December 21 2015, 12:15 AM 

The question (as stated above) to find:

(1) a command or
(2) an example or
(3) a necessary inference [an implication]

of a group of [New Testament] Christians assembled on Sunday for congregational singing with or without instruments as WORSHIP


... is simple. It needs no translation if parsed properly.

I can offer a few hints:

(1) How many times do we find the word "worship" in conjunction with the "congregation" in the New Testament?
(2) How many times do we find the word "congregation," or "assembly" or "gathering" in the New Testament and their activities as "worship"?
(3) What about Acts 20:7-9 and "on the first day of the week" -- Paul preached; the disciples assembled to break bread?
(4) Would you consider the activity in Matt. 26:30 or Mark 14:26 [D-RB, KJV] congregational singing?
(5) Would you consider the activity in Acts 16:25 (Paul and Silas) congregational singing?
(6) If there's no command, example or implication of congregational singing in the N.T., can we at least know and learn the history of congregational singing?

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

December 20 2015, 10:09 PM 

[linked image]

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Church Singing

December 21 2015, 12:47 AM 

There are 3 expressions in the original question posed that need qualification. (O.K., "with instrumental music" is excluded from the question for now.) Our varying definitions of these expressions may be the reason for misunderstanding each other's explanation, plus lack of scriptural support.

Here are the variables:

1. Singing: (solo? duet? trio? quartet? choir? praise/worship team? congregational singing?)
2. Authorized: (allowed? commanded? en-sampled? necessarily implied? directed? silence-of-Scripture?)
3. In the "Church of Christ": (the N.T. church of Christ? the "Church of Christ" transformed into a denominational church by the progressive/liberal change agents?


More importantly, scriptural support/reference.

An example of a better-qualified, more-specific question: Is the "Praise/Worship Team" singing to/for the congregation what God expects when the saints assemble to break bread and study God's word?

 
 Respond to this message   
Rocky
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Church Singing

December 21 2015, 11:49 AM 


All passages mentioned in the New Testament having to do with Christian worship authorize singing (Acts 16:25; Romans 15:9, 1 Corinthians 14:15, Ephesians 5:18-19; Colossians 3:16-17; Hebrews 2:12; James 5:13).

~2,000,000 CoC are on board with singing. Ken, I think your count is about 1.5 people (no singing) that agree with you.

 
 Respond to this message   
ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

December 21 2015, 2:49 PM 

Out of 3 or so million Jews, the prophesied tiny remnant who had not bowed to Baal was 120 Jews still alive when Jesus came.

Nope! I can count plethora of members who do not enjoy or cannot tolerate the CONFESSED "laded burden" known by Nimrod. They obey the ONLY invitation to 'church' God by the Spirit OF Christ prophesied and Jesus ELECTED or INVITED:

Matt. 11:28 Come unto me,
all ye that labour and are heavy laden, [burdensome singing+ money changing hands)
and I will give you rest. (Sunday: the most WORKS INTENSIVE day of the week)
Matt. 11:29 Take my yoke upon you,
nd LEARN of ME; [NOT at any group you know of or have heard of]
for I am meek and lowly in heart: [Not yours standing in the holy places]
and ye shall find REST unto your souls. [Not 24/7 if the STIFFING STAFF have their way]


Modern "praise singing" to prop up the failing gods and ALL of the "worship leaders" and new vineyard-like song books are based on the bodies of the BEAST being burned. NEVER EVER commanded by God----

Heb. 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts,
whose blood is brought into the sanctuary [Holy Eucharist]
by the high priest for sin,
are burned without the camp.


All of the NOISE made by the Jacob-Cursed and God-Abandoned Levites--now your worship team was called SORCERY in a panic to get rid of their OWN sins by slaughtering innocent animals which became a replacement for the Ritual Slaughter of the old failing gods.

"For Frazerians (followers of J.G. Frazer's theories), literature harks back to myths that were originally the scripts of the key primitive ritual of regularly killing and replacing the king in whom the god of vegetation resided, in order to ensure good crops for the community. "The king must die" is a familiar summary line"(p. xxii From Ritual to Romance).


Easter and the Eucharist and "crucifying Christ again with mental arousal" means that you have to EXECUTE your god or his agent before you can eat his flesh and drink his blood.

Of you BODY COUNT, Jesus elects or invites the Little Flock and God HIDES from the masses of the ecumenical, Hebrews says:

Heb. 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp,

[The CAMP where you assemble is the battle-array, army, castle]

bearing his reproach.


Prophesied in Psalm 41 and the Dead Sea Scrolls of the musical mocking of the future Messiah.

[ . . . ] )8[ . . . ] 19[ . . . which ] 20 [,, . they shall write . . . the trumpets of Col. 3 the battle formations, and the trumpets for assembling them when the gates of the war are opened so that the infantry might advance, the trumpets for the signal of the slain, the trumpets of 2 the ambush, the trumpets of pursuit when the enemy is defeated, and the trumpets of reassembly when the battle returns.

On the trumpets for the assembly of the congregation they shall write, "The called of God." 3 0n the trumpets for the assembly of the chiefs they shall write, "The princes of God." On the trumpets of the formations they shall write, "The rule of God." On the trumpets of the men of renown [they shall write], "The heads of the congregation's clans."


You don't know a SINGLE example of walking in the steps of Jesus or Paul.

2Th. 3:8 Neither did we eat any man’s bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:

You cannot see, hear, smell or FEEL it where the Kingdom gathers.

MOST PEOPLE DO NOT ACCEPT INVITATIONS TO WATCH RHETORICIANS, SINGERS OR INSTRUMENT PLAYERS PERFORM: Jesus called them hypocrites and Jesus said that God HIDES from them. Most of the latter-day spawn of humanity have been CUCKOLD and know nothing of the Church of Christ before it packed up and went INTO the cities.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

December 21 2015, 10:21 PM 

Romans 15 begins with silencing SELF PLEASURE so that they can "use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is WRITTEN for our LEARNING."

VERSE 8-9 TELLS WHAT JESUS WILL DO. Note that in ALL of the passage the Speaking, teaching or confessing is AUDIBLE and external which is what you do in the assembly which is a School of Christ says Scripture and the Campbells.

THEN the singing is TO GOD and not to the GENTILES

Rom. 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Rom. 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Psa. 18:48 He delivereth me from mine enemies: yea, thou liftest me up above those that rise up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man.

David gets the victory: He can sing taunt songs against the heathen (gentile, enemy)

Psa. 18:49 Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy name.

Neither of these are in the congregation assembled for EDUCATION only. You have another 167 hours in the week to go down to the streets and sing to the HEATHEN

h1471. ywø…g gowy, go´-ee; rarely (shortened) y…Og goy, go´-ee; apparently from the same root as 1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:—Gentile, heathen, nation, people



 
 Respond to this message   
Rocky
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Church Singing

December 21 2015, 11:57 AM 



Ken, you abuse the "Little Flock". That is for God to decide and not you.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

December 21 2015, 8:38 PM 

That's True: Jesus called it a LITTLE FLOCK: Most are called but FEW (mikros) are chosen. Isaiah and the Spirit OF Christ says that fools will not even be able to STUMBLE into the narrow ROAD or Pattern. If a church mocks the PATTERN then I know that they are not IT.

Then, I and an increasing number get the right not to SWARM with the MEGA-FLOCK.

With a degree in Electronics Engineering I know that there is nothing you can do to define the MIKROS with the MEGAS.

If the soft singing is turned over to a HIRELING (one who is hired) with a MEGA MOUTH then I get to decide to escape and save my ears and nerves.

If a little flock is led by a WOLF then I get to decide what is NOT for me. Only a tiny fraction are willing to PAY tithes and offerings to watch and listen to wimpy-burgers spreading the ham.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Musical Mocking Jesus and Fulfilled

December 21 2015, 8:58 PM 

The Progressives led by a "spirit" assume authority to refute the Scriptures: they have a hate for the Logos or REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE. Because Jesus is the ARTICULATING Logos or Regulative principle they are in fact ANTI-CHRISTS

Their brains must be literally fried when you quote the recorded text and define the words which they will never be permitted access to in getting their Simonizing Certificate to speak FOR Jesus.

[linked image]

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Mocking Jesus Part 2

December 21 2015, 9:25 PM 

Jesus cantillated (dico) A hymn after Passover and WENT OUT: Why isn't that a PATTERN. They would have read or recited one of the hallel hymns which were, like most songs, to be repeated over and over: "Saying the Hallel daily is IDOLATRY" the resources say.

Singing in most postmodern churches totally ignore the Purpose of TEACHING and admonishing or exhorting by "Giving attendance to the public READING of the Word.

The song leader or "worship minister" probably randomly picks songs (and pay him for that) to fulfill the LAW OF SINGING. Most songs are repeated over and over for the pleasure of singing and that was and is considered IDOLATRY: giving attention to the singing of REPLACEMENT TEXT instead of Scripture.

That continues to MOCK the only Rabbi or teacher by singing your own bilge to KEEP FROM teaching that which Jesus commanded to be taught in the Prophets and Apostles. To say that a thing is "Christian" lies because it implies that Jesus taught it. The lie goes much deeper by claiming that Jesus said nothing against instruments. When they MOCK Jesus His task is to be SILENT but that silence does not give the anti-bible clergy give them the AUTHORITY to REWRITE the text and "writing yourself in as a greater than Moses or a greater than Jesus."

[linked image]

Because there IS no rebuttal the progressives have banded together in never giving an answer beyond mocking them. That's the pattern: if you just speak the Word as Jesus just spoke the Word without any personal inputs He says you will be HATED. That is they way to mark the Little Flock from the Mega-flock who are purpose-driven to REJECT "knowing a crucified Christ." That's good!

 
 Respond to this message   
Rocky
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Wrap Up

December 22 2015, 6:58 AM 



Is singing authorized in the Church Of Christ?

I ask a simple question and they will not answer.

Rocky says, Yes! SINGING IS AUTHORIZED in the Church of Christ.

Good Day!

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit

December 22 2015, 12:47 PM 

Then Rocky will tell us WHO authorized it or Rocky is spiritually terminal.

The PROPHETS defined the REST for the people quarantined FROM the Sacrificial system on the Sabbath. This was the Spirit OF Christ: that same Spirit or BREATH would certify the GOSPEL both inclusively and exclusively.

http://www.piney.com/Blasphemy.Against.The.Holy.Spirit.html

That's why the Devil got your "tongue" or Judas' flute mouthpiece and you will NEVER be permitted to even SING "that which is written for our learning."

You say that you are AUTHORIZED to SING but refuse to even SING the poetic (never metrical) Bible text for LEARNING the Word spoken by Jesus.

If you say that ANY musical content is authorized for the Church of Christ which is built upon or EDUCATED by the prophets and apostles; both by the Spirit OF God speaking through Jesus Whom God MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ;

And Jesus authorized us to teach and observe what HE commanded: He HYMNED just once and the Greeks identify HYMNS as PRAYERS. He would NOT hymn again because that would be idolatry and He SYNAGOGUED with the disciples at least twice. They didn't even SING when they met in Solomon's porch EVEN if the scholars tell you that they WORSHIPPED in the Inner Court: even then there is no evidence of the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites making instrumental noise.

Then authorized means that you have Christ commanding, exampling or even hinting of music to ASSIST His commanded resources.

1. f you say that music is authorized
2. And there is no command, example or remote inference from Genesis to Revelation and way past the Reformation.
3. The Spirit OF Christ charges you with blasphemy.

Hey! I forgot Scholarly 101a: God never said THOU SHALT NOT BLASPHEME.

You must mean that Rick Atchley or Jay Guin or some of the DEFUNCT spirits gave you authority because the personified SPIRITUS points to Apollon-Abaddon who was-is the leader of his musical worship team: the muses-locusts "dirty shepherdesses" in the classics.

YOU sing because YOU believe that if you don't OBEY THE LAW OF SINGING God will NOT be enthused and will not give you a 10-to-1 RETURN on your investment which will be DIVERTED. Group singing we learned in Cave-Habitation 101a is to BIND the members of the tribe to the ALPHA MALE. Recorded History derives MUSIC from MYSTERY which means to MAKE THE LAMBS DUMB BEFORE THE SLAUGHTER: Example is Jesus. When the Jews who WERE men but now BOYS "piped" they wanted Jesus to lament and dance the Dionysus (Wineskins) initiation into the gay brotherhood.

The Madison people were promised a huge return if they TITHED and promised them a world of hurt if they did not obey the law. The Law of Aaron laying by with Aaron was never in recorded history a LAW of laying by in the Senior Pastor's pot. Because you probably claim the money for the starving to PERFORM a gig when there is no command, example or early history to back you up, then the Spirit OF Christ says you are BLASPHEMING.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Dec 22, 2015 12:48 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing

December 22 2015, 2:17 PM 

Jesus said that the Kingdom is within us: it does not come with OBSERVATION which means Religious Observations or operations. Those observations which repudiate Jesus saying that worship is in the SPIRIT as a PLACE in contrast to the PLACE of Jerusalem. That worship is uniquely Giving Heed to the Word which is the only way we non-sorcerers can give our attention (worship) to the WORD which is the Power to Salvation and the prescribed (prophets and apostles) the only BUILDING or EDUCATING resource for the assembly. By direct Command and approved examples that began ONCE A WEEK as a REST day noted as SKHOLE day for education.

Jacob cursed Levi and commanded that people NOT attend their "synagogues" nor enter into covenant with them (Genesis 49). The godly classes were quarantined from the Temple-State system which was not a COMMAND but a DEATH SENTENCE.

The pagans were especially fond of creating spectacles of worship where they used magic to create LYING WONDERS to soften up the heads and pick their pockets. Some of the best engineering by Hero and others went into producing machines for doing hard work which defines a "musical instruments" including a simple organ run on water power.

For those who violate the Logos or Regulative Principle God sends strong delusions which causes the "priesthood" to produce lying wonders. These included speakers, singers, players, actors, jugglers, mimics and others. If one can get a tiny grasp of GOD one will be shamed and disgusted by anyone pretending to LEAD YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD. This displays the MARK of trying to ascend or have Christ descend when THE WORD WE PREACH is near you. Lying Wonders are best understood by being PAUL or Simple Simon Literate about humanoids serving up magical mushrooms, poppy incense or great KoolAid.

When God is in His Holy Temple let all the earth keep silence before Him. A lamb of the Little Flock (mikros) will accept the old Madison's Elder's invitation "that if you do not agree then just leave." See David Rhoades lecture on home page.

[linked image]

Philo of Alexandria had already emphasized the ethical qualities of music, spurning the 'effeminate' art of his Gentile surroundings. Similarly, early synagogue song intentionally foregoes artistic perfection, renounces the playing of instruments, and attaches itself entirely to 'the word'the TEXT of the Bible" (Encyclopaedia Judaica, 1971 ed., s.v. "Music")

IS YOUR EVENING CONGREGATION DISGUISED AS EMPTY PEWS? Especially after the feminine-effeminate focus on "worship rituals" to silence the PATRIARCHAL GOD.

National Coalition of Men's Ministries head, Daniel Erickson, in most churches, "a man can't be a man," said Daniel Erickson.

"Eighty percent of pastors are "more in tune to their feminine side" and are artistic, creative, and musical, Erickson said, citing a study done by The Navigators.

"But "the problem is that 80% of men are not, so 20% of pastors who are more in tune to their male side are trying to help 80% of men."

"The current preoccupation with the role of women in the church obscures the more serious problem of the perennial absence of men. A Provocative new book argues that Western churches have become "women's clubs," that the emasculation of Christianity is dangerous for the church and society.







 
 Respond to this message   
Rocky
(no login)
108.230.196.85

Re: Church Singing

December 22 2015, 3:35 PM 


Merry Christmas


[linked image]

 
 Respond to this message   
 
< Previous Page 1 2 3 4 517 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter