Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

John Mark Hicks Campbell and the Trinity.

January 4 2016, 5:48 PM 

SORRY BOUT THAT: here is a bit better:

What Alexander Campbell Affirms but the "progressives" repudiate: John Mark Hicks tries to make Alexander Campbell into a "closet trinitarian."

http://www.piney.com/Trinity.Hicks.Rochester.html

John Mark Hicks: Nevertheless, by the late 1830s Campbell was concerned about the relationship between his reforming movement and the Unitarians of the New England Christian Connexion.

In the 1840s this blossomed into a clear renunciation of the theological core of Unitarianism and the embrace, despite his avoidance of scholastic language, of some quite explicit Trinitarian perspectives.

in your kind epistle of November 11th, you asked me for my definition of a Unitarian, and assured me that you denied the name, though often applied to yourself, and urged me to say whether I "designed to co-operate with Trinitarians against Unitarians," &c. I felt it my duty to make the proposition alluded to in your letter of March 30th. I have done so in the full persuasion that the contemplated discussion is not only expedient, but necessary, and that it can be so managed as to disabuse the public mind of injurious prejudices both against you and myself.

You have long disavowed Unitarianism, and I have also disavowed Trinitarianism and every other sectarianism in the land; and therefore that morbid state of feeling elicited by these partizan wars about the polemical abstrusities of metaphysical abstractions, which, in its excessive irritability, forbids the scriptural investigation of the great points which have been so often distorted and mangled on the racks and wheels of party discord and proscription, should have no abiding in our minds, much less prohibit a scriptural examination of the facts, and precepts, and promises, on which these unhallowed theories have been reared. and I most sincerely supplicate the FATHER OF LIGHTS to subdue our spirits and to imbue them with the holy spirit of the gospel of [247] Christ


Campbell defined the WORD as define because it came from God. However, He said that Jesus of Nazareth had His being when He was conceived and born.

TO BROTHER HENRY GREW.
My principal objection to the popular doctrine of "the Trinity"
is not that it is either irrational
or unscriptural,
to infer that there are three Divine persons in one Divine nature.


This is where the "progressives" blink out: Campbell continued to write:

I say I object not to this doctrine because it is contrary to reason, or revelation, but because of the metaphysical technicalities, the unintelligible jargon, the unmeaning language of the orthodox creeds on this subject, and the interminable war of words without ideas to which the word Trinity has given birth.

For example, in the same section from which I have quoted the above words is found the following jargon: "The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son."

Were any one to ask me, Can there be three distinct persons, or even beings, in one God? I would say,
Reason informs me not,
and revelation does not assert it.
But if asked, Can there be one, and [99] one three in the same sense?
I reply, Both reason and revelation say No.
But then no Trinitarian or Calvinist affirms that the three are one, and the one three, in the same sense.



 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: The God of Jesus Christ -- Who Was/Is He?

January 4 2016, 12:30 AM 

Ken,

I agree with you, as also expressed in the Bible: If Jesus existed even before He was prophesied as the coming Messiah, he would not be a God- being or person. The WORD (LOGOS) is the governing principle excercised through speaking. In other words, it was whenever God SAID or SPOKE. A good example of this is what God SAID in the creation event. Here's a series of that in Genesis 1:

[03] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[06] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters ...
[09] And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be ...
[11] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed ...
[14] And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide ...
[20] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature ...
[24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind ...
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them ...

Genesis 1:1 says -- "In the beginning..."
John 1:1 says -- "In the beginning..."

The LOGOS (WORD) of God was with "the God" in the beginning (proper translation of John 1:1). SPOKEN -- whatever proceeds out of the mouth of God. The LOGOS/WORD was not "the God" but was "[a] god" or "godlike" (proper translation of John 1:1). The definite article "THE" in the 3rd clause of the verse is MISSING. So, the WORD/LOGOS was not 'THE GOD" that Trinitarian translators mistranslated.

The LOGOS (WORD) of God became flesh -- not God [the Father only]. (John 1:14)

As Humility noted earlier, there is not any reference to the expression "God the Father" in the Old Testament. Because the LOGOS/WORD as ONLY prophesied in the O.T. did not become flesh until 2 millennia ago. As also noted, there was no pre-existing Father-and-Son relationship in the O.T. that the book of John clearly explains, not until God sent His only begotten Son.


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: The God of Jesus Christ -- Who Was/Is He?

January 4 2016, 5:58 PM 

The greatest supernatural operation, borrowing an idea from God, is that He created Adam as the first adam and Jesus as the second Adam.

If Jesus is the only begotten son.
And Jesus was begotten by the same power of God.
Then Jesus could not have been begotten from eternity past.

It is God's Laws which regulate the physical and spiritual worlds

While those who are clearly ANTI-Christs (in the words of John) mock and are featured at University assemblies Deny God's silence by debating empty chairs, and specificially claim that we just lifted the Regulative Principle from John Calvin, they deny God or even human's exercise of their power through WORDS. Rick Atchley used Empty Chairs as his theatrical "word" which in fact denied that Jesus is still on the CHAIR or Throne of God. He in fact, and the audience mocked applaudingly, FILLED the empty chairs with his IMPROVED kings.




 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.40

One Lord

January 3 2016, 1:14 PM 

Some people declare that Jesus cannot be God, because the Bible does not explicitly say, "Jesus is God." Of course, the Bible also does NOT explicitly say, "Jesus is not God," yet those people conveniently ignore the latter. Even though the Bible refers to God as the Father and to Jesus as the Son of God and the Son of man, God and Jesus have a common link -- they are the "Lord":

What the Bible says about Jesus as the Lord:
--"the Lord Jesus" (Luke 24:3).
--"Jesus is the Lord" (1 Cor. 12:3).
--"Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all)" (Acts 10:36).
--"Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23).
--"the Lord Jesus" (Rom. 14:14).

What the Bible says about God as the Lord:
--"the Lord thy God" (Matt. 22:37).
--"The Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29).
--"the Lord our God" (Acts 2:29).
--"the Lord God" (1 Peter 3:15).
--"Lord God Almighty" (Rev.4:8).

The Bible recognizes only one Lord:
--"The Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29).
--"one Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Cor. 8:6).
--"One Lord..." (Eph. 4:5).

The Bible refers to God as the Lord; the Bible refers to Jesus as the Lord. Yet the Bible says there is only ONE Lord. How can God and Jesus both be the Lord? The answer is simple: God and Jesus are one and the same Being. The Bible need not say, "Jesus is God" or "God is Jesus" or "God the Son" or "God and Jesus are one and the same," as man would have it, for God and Jesus to be the same Being. With humans, the father cannot be the son, neither can the son be the father; but with God/Jesus, Who is supernatural and transcends all human limitations, all that and more are possible. Human genetics do not apply to Him. The evidence is all too clear that God and Jesus are One and the same.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Ignoring the CONTEXT is a MARK. Pauls for a short study

January 3 2016, 3:47 PM 

Bill and maybe some little Elves?

What the Bible says about God as the Lord:
--"the Lord thy God" (Matt. 22:37).

Some preacher must be assisting Bill: no student of the Bible would post so many passages trying to denounce Jesus as a liar for saying that He is Lord and His Father is the ONE GOD. This leads me to one of my Sunday-school lessons while watching the Titans get beat again.

We have shown that Jesus agreed with the Scribes or Jews who wanted Jesus to declare is TIRAD-NESS. Jesus agreed with Scripture and the Jews that there is ONLY ONE Lord God and all else are CREATURES.

We have also shown that in the Old Testament God is always LORD-GOD. That is because the pagans and many Jews such as those abandoned to worship the starry host, believed that CREATURES such as sun, moon and the wandering stars were gods (elohim). However, we have also quoted some passages to prove that Jehovah (Lord in Hebrew) is the ONLY TRUE Elohim (god). Moses was the agent and inspired by Jehovah is is called a god or elohim. Any ruler was an elohim. Jesus AFFIRMS that there is only ONE TRUE God and He did not claim that He was number 2 of the LU trinity of descending order of people: 1, 2 and 3.

Jehovah is LORD in the absolute sense but Jesus is Lord (kurios) in the INHERITED sense and then ONLY until the end of time when He will return the temporary throne to God so that HE will be ALL IN ALL.

Matt. 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Matt. 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the LAW?
Matt. 22:37 Jesus said unto him,
.....Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
.....and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matt. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matt. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matt. 22:40 On these two commandments HANG all the LAW and the PROPHETS.


And we need to at least try to connect the dots left by Jesus to fool the clergy:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is NONE good but one, that is, God.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord:


God continued to be absolute LORD and He could BESTOW rulership over anyone He pleased without ceasing to be the ONE LORD GOD.

After Jesus was BORN God made Him heir and Lord of Hid kingdom, the body of Christ or the Church of Christ. I have noted that his throne was for this AGE and will be returned to God so that JEHOVAH will be the Lord-God of whatever comesx.

The Shema (Deut 6:4 is still the primary prayer by the Jews: if you cannot believe that there is ONE JEHOVAH but many elohim men considered to be "gods" then you could not answer Philip and are not a candidate for baptism. Jesus is the "begotten" Son of God and God MADE HIM TO BE both Lord and Christ.

Heb. 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake
in time past unto the fathers by the PROPHETS, [BY the Spirit OF Christ]
Heb. 1:2 Hath in these
.....LAST DAYS spoken unto us by his Son,
.....whom he HATH appointed heir of all things,
.....by whom also he made the WORLDS;


God didn't speak through His SON the seed of David after the flesh but DECLARED to be God's ONLY BEGOTTEN son who did not exist before He was "begotten"

Jesus was made the Heir because He came to establish a NEW WORLD or new heavens and earth as the time when all spirits will be sought out, tested and a tiny few translated into the Heavenly Kingdom which is NOT OF THIS WORLD: if you felt it, saw it, heard it or smelled it this morning you are NOT in the Christian World Order in final conflict with the World, Kosmos or the ECUMENICAL.

Jesus was the Articulater of the WORD and the IMAGE of His PERSON.

Heb. 1:3 Who being the BRIGHTNESS of HIS glory,
.....and the express IMAGE (FORMA) of HIS PERSON,
.....and upholding all things by the word of his power,
.....when he had by himself purged our sins,
.....sat down on the right hand of the MAJESTY on high


Jesus as the IMAGE of that Majesty was God's ANOINTED (CHRIST) agent but He was not even LORD until He was BORN and was declared as the begotten SON after His baptism.

Person NEVER speaks of a PEOPLE even among the historic inventers of the trias concept.

5287.hupostasis, hoop-os´-tas-is; from a compound of 5259 and 2476; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively): — confidence, confident, person, substance.

God is SPIRIT without flesh and bones and cannot ever be imagined as a bit superior to the MAN Jesus of Nazareth. Image or Forma or Figure is left with

Figuro In gen.: “voces lingua,” to pronounce, utter, To imagine, fancy, picture, In rhet. lang., to adorn with figures, translatis verbis quam propriis figuratur oratio,” Of a word, derived: “dicatur a Graeca voce figurata esse,” Gai. Inst. 3, 93 fin.— B. [select] Trop., of speech, figurative


The OLD WORLD ORDER (the pattern of your church) was DESTROYED BY WATER and was therefore NOT created by the MAN Jesus of Nazareth.

Gen. 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Peter was Genesis literate even as a fisherman neither Priest nor Levite or "doctor of the law."

ISN'T IT THE TRUTH, PETER?

2Pet. 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of,
..... that by the WORD of God the heavens were of old,
.....and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:


The EARTH or fruitful places was what was raised up OUT of the Water. The Latin in Genesis points to figurative darkness or IGNORANCE.

The Old World Order to which God returned the Jews because of instrumental-trinitarian idolatry.

2Pet. 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pet. 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same WORD are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


The WORD of God was His creative "son" but WORD means "regulative principle" in CONTRAST to anything that comes out of the mind or mouth of humans--that which pollutes. All of God's attributes are PERSONIFIED but they are "personae" and not PEOPLE in the LU neo-trinity.

The CHRISTIAN WORLD ORDER (Christian System) are withheld with the same WORD (Dabar-Logos). That Christian World order has NOTHING proping it up but the LOGOS which IMAGES are the ONLY educational resource to UPHOLD or give CONFIDENCE (not a people)

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.70

God and Jesus Are the Same: One Lord

January 3 2016, 6:15 PM 

Some people may take a passage like Eph. 6:23 that mentions "God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" and contend that since God is the Father, then only Jesus, not God, is the Lord, that they are two separate beings, which is the concept of "Binity." That ignores and negates the fact that the Bible says that God is the Lord AND that Jesus is also the Lord. We cannot get around that Biblical fact, unless we want to believe that the Bible is incorrect and/or contradicts itself. But since we believe that the Bible is true, and since there is only ONE Lord, then the fact that God is the Lord and Jesus is the Lord means God and Jesus are definitely one and the same. This takes nothing away from God being the Father and Jesus being the Son. With God/Jesus, Father and Son are ONE BEING. Once again, forget about human genetics, because it has no application in the spiritual realm.

The Bible clearly informs us that Jesus is God, IF we are discerning enough to see it. But because some people lack sufficient discernment, they cannot accept the fact that Jesus is God.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: God and Jesus Are the Same: One Lord

January 3 2016, 6:38 PM 

The Almighty never ceases to be LORD GOD or Jehovah the ONLY true Elohim. God RAISED UP the fruit of David's Loins to be Messiah or the Ruler of His Spiritual kingdom on earth UNTIL Jesus returns again and Jesus will give up His temporary rulership of His Church. "Master (as a respectful title): — God, Lord, master, Sir." If God made Jesus to be LORD then Jesus cannot be God.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David,
.....that he is both dead and buried,
.....and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet,
.....and knowing that God [Deus] had sworn with an oath to him,
.....that of the fruit of his [David's] loins, [private parts]
.....according to the flesh,
.....HE would RAISE UP Christ to sit on HIS THRONE

John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said,
.....That Christ cometh of the seed of David,
.....and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
.....which was made of the seed of David
.....according to the flesh;
Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,
.....according to the spirit of holiness,
.....by the resurrection from the dead:


God the SENDER was in Heaven but He sent Jesus from Bethlehem. He also "called His Son out of Egypt." Heaven is "up there" because we have no notion of the Spirit world: Paul said that in God we live, move and have our being and "he is not far from all of us."

We now live IN the World but we are not OF the World, and neither is Jesus nor any of those who can RECEIVE the call or invitation and be marked or sealed by submitting to baptism. As my quote of Campbell notes, we know nothing of what went on in the Spirit realm. OUR test is whether we believe that Jesus later made to be both Lord and Christ came fully in the flesh.

It could only be after Jesus knew that God had given Him full authority to make known the Prophesied kingdom, that He proved His merit by refusing to exercise that authority. Rather, He assumed the role of a poor man subject to to the abuse of those OF THE WORLD. He would have proven nothing if He assumed full authority and forced everyone to PASS THE TEST which, I believe, must be offered in all of the world because it is a sign that only those NOT OF this world or as pilgrims and sojourners will recognize.

Jesus said that He didn't pray for the WORLD because those God gave Him are not OF the World. He said that God HIDES from the wise or sophists: speakers, singers or instrument players who Paul in Ephesians 4 says are LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

Believers are the aliens in a wild and wicked race of Vipers. The kingdom does not come with observation meaning religious observations or operations called Lying Wonders: The little flock will be outside houses of worship by hands as He and the church suffer reproaches but are invited to COME LEARN OF ME.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Jan 3, 2016 6:50 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: God and Jesus Are the Same: One Lord

January 3 2016, 8:32 PM 

Some people may take a passage like Eph. 6:23 that mentions "God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" and contend that since God is the Father, then only Jesus, not God, is the Lord, that they are two separate beings, which is the concept of "Binity."

No, it is not any kind of ITY:
God is the only SPIRIT without flesh and bones
Jesus said He had flesh and bones
Therefore, Jesus was not God or we couldn't see Him.

Lord just means a RULER and the modern PLANTATION OWNERS (mega churches) have only the senior pastor as LORD: He is the antithesis of a "minister" because he insists that even the poor widows sell their property so he can build more houses.

One God person
One MAN as Mediator
All people who are brothers with no ranks

The One Piece Pattern:

Rom. 15:6 That ye may with one mind and
.....one mouth glorify God,
.....even the Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ


GOD is defined as the FATHER. God is the Father of Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus was not the CHRIST of God until God "made Him to be both Lord and christ." He is not called the Son of God until after His baptism. Neither Lord Nor Christ are God words in the Greek.

There is just ONE GOD FATHER OF THE UNIVERSE OR UNIVERSES.
Jesus was given God's throne for HIS kingdom and so the RULER.
Jesus is the ONE MAN who is the mediator between the ONE GOD and His Children.
That is neither unitarianism or oneness which is not content to speak where the Bible speaks.

1 Cor. 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things
.....that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, [gods]
.....we know that an idol is nothing in the world,
.....and that there is none other God but ONE.


The trinity invented by Lipscomb University's H. Leo Boles and which spread over parts of churches of Christ says as with John Mark Hicks.

There are THREE centers of consciousness, able to "commune" or with Boles hold conversations like a committee.

The Father is God
The Son is God: 100% man and 100% God
The Holy Spirit is God
They are ONE only in the sense that THEY are perfectly agreed among THEMSELVES.


Paul is therefore declared IGNORANT and also a woman hater and so WE no longer preach from the epistles but we KNOW only Christ and Him crucified. They translate that to mean WE PREACH only Christ. However, that is a lie because they claim that a spirit will tell them the TRUE TRUTH if you engage in Ignatian Meditations which honors Mary the Mother of God.

1Cor. 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

1Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, OF whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


The ONE GOD is the FATHER and not IN ADDITION a son and a spirit.


 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: God and Jesus Are the Same: One Lord

January 7 2016, 2:46 AM 

Let's not expect Bill to understand this simple truth:

The only true God the Father sent Jesus Christ to earth. (John 17:3)

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: One Lord

January 4 2016, 1:05 AM 

(1) Some people easily forget or ignore the truth that it was God, in the first place, Who made Jesus both Lord and Christ. "God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" Acts 2:36

(2) Some people easily forget or ignore the truth that it was God, in the first place, Who gave "all power" to Jesus. All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" Matt. 28:18.

(3) Some people easily forget or ignore the truth about "Christ, who is the image of God" (II Cor. 4:4).

(4) Some people easily forget or ignore the truth about Christ "who is the image of the invisible God" (Col. 1:15).

(5) Some people easily forget or ignore the truth that Jesus Christ is sitting at the right hand of God His Father (numerous passages support this truth).

(6) These people are confused about the identity of the only true God the Father and the identify of the only begotten Son of God the Father -- confused about the sender and and the one sent, about the giver and the receiver.

The fact that the Lord God made Jesus both Lord and Christ and is the IMAGE of God (does anyone know what the word "image" means?) does not contradict the truth that only the Father is the only true and living God.

I'm waiting for someone to say that the Trinity-identified "Holy Spirit" is also "Lord" ... so that we may also call "the Spirit of God" God. "Lord Holy Spirit!!!" -- hmmm.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.70

Re: One Lord

January 4 2016, 1:29 AM 

As I said, one must have discernment to recognize and understand the Bible passages that reveal that Jesus is God. Those without that discernment readily deny that Jesus is God.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: One Lord

January 4 2016, 2:59 AM 

Definition of "discernment" -- (in Christian contexts) perception in the absence of judgment with a view to obtaining spiritual direction and understanding

I would have discernment along with the biblical passages. Scripture overrides discernment. There are scriptures that override discernment. A good example follows (John 17):
  1. These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
  2. As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
  3. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Factual observations:
  • In communication: (1) the Father and (2)the Son
  • The Father -- the giver of power (addressed as "thou")
  • The Son -- the recipient of power (identified as he, him)
  • The Son in turn gives eternal life to ...
  • ... as many as [each one Christ gives eternal life to....]
  • The Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD (the sender)
  • The conjunction AND
  • Jesus Christ -- whom God SENT.
  • Again: NOTE the one who GAVE and the one GIVEN
  • Again: NOTE the one who SENT and the one who WAS SENT.


 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.70

Re: One Lord

January 4 2016, 10:07 AM 

According to the Bible, Jesus is Lord and God is Lord -- Lord God and Lord Jesus.

According to the Bible, however, there is only one Lord.

Therefore, if the Bible doesn't contradict itself, then Jesus and God are one and the same Being.

BTW, text in different colors, underlining, text in all caps, and text in exaggerated font sizes do not strengthen arguments. Instead, they signify desperation and certainly do not change the fact that Jesus is God. I believe we've been over that before.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: One Lord

January 5 2016, 10:24 PM 

My Scripture-based response is in blue:

According to the Bible, Jesus is Lord and God is Lord -- Lord God and Lord Jesus. [Correct]

According to the Bible, however, there is only one Lord [incorrect -- "ONLY one Lord" is not found in the Bible].

The Bible says:

----- "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deut. 6:4).
----- "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, ...
----- "Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29).
----- "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; ...
----- "AND one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him (I Cor. 8:6).


The Bible also says:

----- "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, ...
----- "that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ
.

Scripture says: The LORD our God is one LORD [God the Father]
Scripture says: One Lord Jesus Christ [the Father's only begotten Son]
There is no contradiction: The LORD our God is one LORD
There is no contradiction: There is one Lord Jesus Christ



Therefore, if the Bible doesn't contradict itself [correct], then Jesus and God are one [correct in that they are united] and the same Being [incorrect, a speculation].

The Scripture says many times that God the Father and God's only begotten Son are different beings:

-- God the Father AND one Lord Jesus Christ (I Cor. 8:6)
-- Jesus Christ AND God the Father (Gal. 1:1)
-- From God the Father AND from our Lord Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:3)
-- From God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ (Eph. 6:23)
-- That Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (pHIL 2:1)
-- In God the Father AND in the Lord Jesus Christ (I Thess. 1:1)
-- From God our Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ (I Thess. 1:1)
-- From God the Father AND Christ Jesus our Lord (II Tim. 1:2)
-- From God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (Titus 1:4)
-- From God the Father AND from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father (II JOhn 1:3)
-- sanctified by God the Father AND preserved in Jesus Christ (Jude 1:1)

[Bill, I'm embarrassed to ask you: Do you understand the significance of the conjunction AND?]


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: One Lord

January 5 2016, 11:06 PM 

I got it!

Jack AND Jill went up the hill. That means that Jack IS Jill?

In our gender confused world it might be (doesn's say is isn't)

Jack and Jill went up the hill
Jack went up as Jack.
Jack came down as Jill.

The Doctor level doctor of trinity says:

1 AND 1 are 1

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.204.26

Re: One Lord

January 5 2016, 11:59 PM 

Donnie, I'm embarrassed to ask you, but do you understand the significance of the conjunction "and" since the Bible in some passages says that Jesus is the Lord or Lord Jesus and in other passages that God is the Lord or Lord God?

Do you understand that the Bible also says there is only one Lord, not two or more Lords?

Do you understand that if the Bible is true and does not contradict itself, that for Jesus to be the Lord and for God to be the Lord, yet there is only one Lord, then Jesus and God are one and the same Being?

That should be very easy to understand.

On the other hand, perhaps you believe that sometimes God is the Lord and at other times Jesus is the Lord, but they are never the Lord together at any one time (remember, there is only one Lord). Perhaps you believe they swap out being Lord, that maybe one year Jesus is the Lord and then the next year God is the Lord. Of course it's ridiculous, but that's about all you have left if you deny that Jesus is God but acknowledge (surely you do) that the Bible says Jesus is the Lord (Lord Jesus) and that God is the Lord (Lord God).

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: One Lord

January 6 2016, 1:06 AM 

I got it too. Bill is not gender-confused; but he is undoubtedly being-confused. Back to basic parts-of-speech 101 -- the conjunction "and" and its significance.

The Scripture says many times that God the Father and God's only begotten Son Jesus Christ are different beings:

-- God the Father AND one Lord Jesus Christ (I Cor. 8:6)
-- Jesus Christ AND God the Father (Gal. 1:1)
-- From God the Father AND from our Lord Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:3)
-- From God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ (Eph. 6:23)
-- That Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (pHIL 2:1)
-- In God the Father AND in the Lord Jesus Christ (I Thess. 1:1)
-- From God our Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ (I Thess. 1:1)
-- From God the Father AND Christ Jesus our Lord (II Tim. 1:2)
-- From God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (Titus 1:4)
-- From God the Father AND from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father (II JOhn 1:3)
-- sanctified by God the Father AND preserved in Jesus Christ (Jude 1:1)


Really, I got it!!! Bill desperately wants to replace "and" with "or" in the above passages.


 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.204.26

Re: One Lord

January 6 2016, 3:29 AM 

You still ignore the fact that the Bible allows only one Lord, yet for God to be Lord AND for Jesus to be Lord, they have to be one and the same. God and Jesus are one and the same Being, one and the same Lord.

I guess you're just not able to understand that God can be the Father AND the Son, One Lord, because God sent Himself to earth as His own Son Jesus, Emmanuel, "God with us" -- literally. Jesus was God in the flesh, "I and my Father are one" -- literally.

That's so very easy to understand, yet it is a stumbling block to those short-sighted folks who lack discernment and who limit the spiritual realm to the finite principles of human genetics.

 
 Respond to this message   
Bill
(no login)
74.179.204.26

Re: One Lord

January 6 2016, 12:14 PM 

Since Donnie fixates on the word "and," I submit he's never considered the possibility that the phrase "God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" refers not to two separate Beings or Binity but to ONE Being with two identical manifestations. Instead of a separate God and a separate Jesus, which would mean there were two separate Lords (Lord God and Lord Jesus) instead of the one Lord as the Bible says, that phrase refers to ONE Being who is BOTH God AND Jesus together, Father AND Son together as One Being.

So, consider that. It makes a lot of sense to those who have enough discernment to understand it.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: One Lord

January 6 2016, 12:22 PM 

Bill boasts about not reading my posts so he keeps on trusting "human imagination" which declares that the recorded TEXT is not relevant if HE can do a legalistic end run around it. He could get a Phd with that thesis.

 
 Respond to this message   
 
< Previous Page 1 2 3 4 512 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter