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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

The Holy Spirit Movement: Parables to hide from Clergy

December 6 2016, 11:44 PM 

Scholars are aware that Paul never speaks of SPIRIT as a separate person. The Spirit OF Christ is that spirit which belongs to Christ.

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Dec 7, 2016 3:32 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

John Calvin Fanatics and the Holy Spirit

December 7 2016, 11:37 AM 

John Calvin Institutes 1-9.

http://www.piney.com/Calvin-Institutes-1-9.html

The inability to read John Calvin accounts for many false teachings by "scholars" who have never read John Calvin. The concept of "faith only" is gleaned from Calvinist's writings and not from Calvin. Speaking of adult baptism, Alexander Campbell said that Calvin could be a Campbellite.

The need for a direct operation of the Spirit of God before we can believe is because Calvin said that one supernatural gift is supplying Holy Scripture. The Spirit does not work if those who claim to be evangelists do not GO and preach the Word.

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Dec 7, 2016 11:51 AM


 
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Scripture
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23.117.130.209

Re: John Calvin Fanatics and the Holy Spirit

December 7 2016, 5:00 PM 

Absolutely amazing!

Campbell before Campbell!

The Word of God trumps the imaginations of men.

The pristine Word is greater than ecclesiastical hierarchies.

The Word is even greater than denominational loyalties.

Pretentious aspirants of Spirit Indwelling put in their place by the Written Word!

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

John Calvin Restoration of the Church of Christ

December 7 2016, 6:20 PM 

Alexander faulted John Calvin for being trinitarian. However, someone convinced Calvin without getting hurt and he spoke of the Three ASPECTS of God. He also speaks of the Spirit being what enabled the Written text but it is not always easy to understand his full theology.

Jesus said "my words are spirit and Live" John 6:63 so it is clear that Spirit or Mind of God is included in the Words and they have power to make spiritual life in the believer.

The Campbell's were Calvinists without what is called the TULIP and their understanding of Restoration had nothing to do with those rooted in the Christians-Methodists-Anglicans-Catholics. Restoration would happen if you just strip off everything not commanded nor required.

http://www.piney.com/Calvin-Reform-1.html

He wrote to

At the request of Bucer Calvin utilized the occasion of the fourth Diet of Speyer assembled by Charles V in February, 1544, to address to the Emperor a "Supplicatory Remonstrance" in reference to a General Council of the Church after the manner of the Early Church. It was also a powerful justification of the Reformation, and it met with considerable success in its impact upon the Diet and in confirming the Emperor in his tolerance toward the movement for reform.

THE NECESSITY OF REFORMING THE CHURCH.
TO THE MOST INVINCIBLE EMPEROR CHARLES V.,
AND THE MOST ILLUSTRIOUS PRINCES AND OTHER ORDERS, NOW HOLDING
A DIET OF THE EMPIRE AT SPIRES,
A HUMBLE EXHORTATION
SERIOUSLY TO UNDERTAKE THE TASK OF RESTORING THE CHURCH.
PRESENTED IN THE NAME OF ALL THOSE WHO WISH CHRIST TO REIGN.
AUGUST EMPEROR,

You have summoned this Diet, that, in Concert with the Most Illustrious Princes and other Orders of the Empire, you may at length deliberate and decide upon the means of ameliorating the present condition of the Church, which we all see to be very miserable, and almost desperate. Now, therefore, while you are seated at this consultation, I humbly beg and implore, first of your Imperial Majesty, and at the same time of you also, Most Illustrious Princes, and distinguished Personages, that you will not decline to read, and diligently ponder, what I have to lay before you. The magnitude and weightiness of the cause may well excite in you an eagerness to hear, and I will set the matter so plainly in your view, that you can have no difficulty in determining what course to adopt. Whoever I am, I here profess to plead in defence, both of sound doctrine and of the Church. In this character I seem at all events entitled to expect that you will not deny me audience until such time as it may appear whether I falsely usurp the character, or whether I faithfully perform its duties, and make good what I profess. But though I feel that I am by no means equal to so great a task, I am not at all afraid, that after you have heard the nature of my office, I shall be accused either of folly or presumption in having ventured thus to appear before you. There are two circumstances by which men are wont to recommend, or at least to justify, their conduct. If a thing is done honestly, and from pious zeal, we deem it worthy of praise; if it is done under the pressure of public necessity, we at least deem it not unworthy of excuse. Since both of these apply here, I am confident, from your equity, that I shall easily obtain your approval of my design.

For where can I exert myself to better purpose or more honestly, where, too, in a matter at this time more necessary, than in attempting, according to my ability, to aid the Church of Chris, whose claims it is unlawful in any instance to deny, and which is now in grievous distress, and in extreme danger?

But there is no occasion for a long preface concerning myself. Receive what I say as you would do if it were pronounced by the united voice

of all those who either have already taken care to restore the Church,
or are desirous that it should be restored to true order.


I have spent lots of time trying to "unpeal" Calvin: it is very difficult to understand whether Calvin or his enemies are speaking. There are several Reformed groups which reject instrumental music and some of the best documents are written by Presbyterians.

The apostates claim that basing church on commands, examples or inferences was INVENTED only after the Church of Christ REFUSED to be cast out of their own synagogue. However, that principle is well documented in Scripture and by all founders of religious groups.

Moreover, the rule which distinguishes between pure and vitiated worship is of universal application,

in order that we may not adopt any device which seems fit to ourselves,
but look to the injunctions of Him who alone is entitled to prescribe.

Therefore, if we would have Him to approve our worship, this rule, which he everywhere enforces with the utmost strictness, must be carefully observed. For there is a twofold reason why the Lord, in condemning and prohibiting all fictitious worship, requires us to give obedience only to his own voice.

First, it tends greatly to establish His authority that we do not follow our own pleasure, but depend entirely on his sovereignty; and, secondly, such is our folly, that when we are left at liberty, all we are able to do is to go astray.

And then when once we have turned aside from the right path, there is no end to our wanderings, until we get buried under a multitude of superstitions.

Justly, therefore, does the Lord, in order to assert his full right of dominion, strictly enjoin what he wishes us to do, and at once reject all human devices which are at variance with his command.

Justly, too, does he, in express terms, define our limits, that we may not, by fabricating perverse modes of worship, provoke His anger against us.

I know how difficult it is to persuade the world that God disapproves of all modes of worship not expressly sanctioned by His Word.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: John Calvin Fanatics and the Holy Spirit

January 2 2017, 9:46 PM 

YOU quoted Henry as your evidence: you said it.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Lipscomb's Radical Trinity

December 23 2016, 6:34 PM 

None of the creeds nor historic statements about the trinity are as radical and Bible-devoid as that always and still promoted by LU and "invented" by H. Leo Boles in 1938 as the CREED of Lipscomb and the Gospel Advocate. Theophilus and then Tertullian were the first to define the "complex" nature of the singular God. We have often quoted from several chapters of John and Donnie has again tried to call them to our attention. Dogma is always produced by a rejection of the context of Scripture and it is probably that those coming out of "liberal" universities have never had the urge or need to be Disciples of Christ who by definition attend what Scripture and the Campbells called A School of Christ in the Word.

Note that God's WORD is His Son but is not another person.

[linked image]

Away, then, with those "Antichrists who deny the Father and the Son." For they deny the Father, when they say that He is the same as the Son; and they deny the Son, when they suppose Him to be the same as the Father, by assigning to Them things which are not Theirs, and taking away from Them things which are Theirs. But "whosoever shall confess that (Jesus) Christ is the Son of God" (not the Father), "God dwells in him, and he in God." We believe not the testimony of God in which He testifies to us of His Son. "He that has not the Son, has not life." And that man has not the Son, who believes Him to be any other than the Son.

 
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Humility
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23.117.130.209

Re: Lipscomb's Radical Trinity

December 27 2016, 11:17 AM 

Here is a passage that refers to an unclean spirit as "it." Matthew 12:43-45.

Couple this with "the elemental spirits of the universe" in Galatians 4:3.

Add to that the fact that when we cry out to God "Abba, Father" or have complete trust in Him, then God has sent into our hearts the Spirit of his Son. Galatians 4:6.

There is very likely a difference in manifestation between the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of His Son, although there is one Spirit. Ephesians 4:4.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Lipscomb's Radical Trinity

January 1 2017, 10:26 PM 

Translating the word WIND or BREATH as a GHOST probably led to the confusion. The historic trinitarians did not introduce the confusion. The problem with the Holy Spirit as a separate PEOPLE in addition to the Spirit OF God or the Spirit OF Christ is that people driven into strong delusions may believe but certainly us the claim that THEY are instructed by "a" spirit "beyond the sacred pages." they do not give you the same right to use intimidation so that whatever they imagine or WISH is able to fool too many people most of the time.

Num. 5:30 Or when the spirit OF jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.

h7307. ruwach, roo´-akh; from 7306; WIND;
.....by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation;
.....figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality;
.....by extension, a region of the sky;
.....by resemblance spirit, but only OF a rational being (including its expression and functions):—
air, anger, blast, breath, x cool, courage, mind, x quarter, x side, spirit((-ual)), tempest, x vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y).

7306. ruwach, roo´-akh; a primitive root;
.....properly, to blow, i.e. breathe;
.....only (literally) to smell
.....or (by implication, perceive (figuratively, to anticipate, enjoy):—accept, smell, x touch, make of quick understanding.

The literal word is WIND: by analogy only something that can be related to WIND. Spirit is never a "people" but the mind, breath, mental disposition OF a person. We cannot see or smell these and should not make any quality into a separate person about the size of Jesus. In the progressive teaching the "spirit" is superior because--thinking of spirit as a person--"he" enables Jesus in everything He says or does.

God is holy meaning WHOLLY or Pure Spirit or Mind: Jesus says that a spirit does not have flesh and bones. Therefore, it would be irrational to try to make the Mind, Breath and resulting Words into an IDOL like a human.

Humans are Body (including brain)
Soul or Live and
Spirit or Mind which is our real SELF. Science does not understand much but that the Mind of a person is not flesh and bones.

Eccl. 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Lipscomb's Radical Trinity

January 2 2017, 11:02 AM 

It is really sad when God will not let one read BLACK text on BROWN paper. If someone says I AM and the stops, the logical question is "I am WHAT?"

Ex. 3:6 Moreover he said, I AM
I am WHO?
the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

People prove the STRONG DELUSION Mark when they cannot make it to the PUNCH LINE.

And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Jesus always said I AM the SON of God. Moses understood that god said that I AM the God of the Fathers. Moses was not neutered by a postmodern theology degree.

Ex. 3:13 And Moses said unto God
Jesus always said I AM the SON of God.
Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them,
The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me,
What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

Ex. 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM:


The God words are generic and the only way to identify the ONE GOD THE FATHER is to associate Him with persons and events. God

Jesus never said I AM THAT I AM: the God of the fathers.

and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
I AM hath sent me unto you.


I AM WHO? The rest of the message of I AM THAT I AM. Why not give God enough time to COMPLETE His message?

Ex. 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses,
Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
The LORD--God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,
hath sent me unto you: THIS IS MY NAME for ever,
and this is my memorial unto all generations.


God said that I AM the Lord-God of the Fathers: I AM is not His Name.

What is His NAME? "The Lord-God (Jehovah the only real El) of your fathers.

God said I AM the God of ABRAHAM. Jesus was of the SPERM of Abraham. Therefore, Jesus was not the I AM the God of Abraham.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


People claim that Jesus was too ignorant to say that I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM.

The high priest proves that Jesus was NOT claiming to be God.

Matt. 26:62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
Matt. 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him,
I adjure thee by the living God,
that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Matt. 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you,
Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven


The God Who is I AM the God of the fathers made Jesus TO BE both Lord and Christ.

God DENIED that He was the Son of Man.

Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Matthew Henry

January 2 2017, 5:26 PM 

Matthew Henry: And now let who will deny him to be essentially God at their peril, but let us own and honour him as God; for, if he had not been God, he had never been FIT to have done the Mediator’s work nor to have worn the Mediator’s crown.

Dave is probably misquoting Henry because that would would make him DESPISE the Word of God which is the Latin BLASPHEME.

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;

Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was MADE of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Heb. 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb. 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


God doesn't BLEED: God AND Jesus proves that Jesus is NOT God.

Heb. 1:4 Being MADE so much BETTER than the angels,
.....as he HATH by inheritance OBTAINED a more excellent name than they.


If Jesus was the subject of the QUOTATION wouldn't that make Paul and God unlearned to say that Jesus was MADE better than the angels. god the Father or Lord-God or Jehovah-the true ELOHIM.

Heb. 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
.....Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I begotten thee?
.....And again, I will be TO HIM a Father,
.....and he shall be TO ME a Son?
Heb. 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world,
.....he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb. 1:7 And of the angels he saith,
.....Who maketh his angels SPIRITS, and his ministers a flame of FIRE.


Donnie made it through reading and correctly understands that the throne is GOD'S

Heb. 1:8 But unto the Son he saith,
....."Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:
.....a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."


This is a quotation:
Psa. 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Psa. 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:
.....therefore God, THY God,
.....hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Lam. 5:19 Thou, O LORD, remainest for ever; THY throne from generation to generation.

Notice that this is not the AGE to save everyone in our ecumenical church: this is the age reserved for fire. This church age is a hostile battle against the WORLD ORDER so don't expect that you can SAVE everyone if we give you enough money.

When Jesus was resurrected He first sat on the throne of the Kingdom: He will NOT sit on GOD'S throne when the kingdom ends.

The Throne of Jesus the SON was not for ever and ever:

1Cor. 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have DELIVERED up the kingdom to God,
.....even the Father; when he shall have
.....put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cor. 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him,
..... then shall the SON also himself
.....be subject unto him that put all things under him,
.....that GOD may be all in all

Heb. 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness,
.....and hated iniquity; therefore God, even THY God,
.....hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

G5548. chrio, khree´-o; probably akin to 5530 through the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, i.e. (by implication) to consecrate to an office or religious service: — anoint.

Heb. 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth;
.....and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

 
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Dave
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66.112.162.15

Another Awesome Day in the Kingdom

January 2 2017, 8:22 PM 

Man, Ken, you and Donnie are making it easy for me today.
You quoted Henry's best part
Matthew Henry: And now let who will deny him to be essentially God at their peril, but let us own and honour him as God; for, if he had not been God, he had never been FIT to have done the Mediator’s work nor to have worn the Mediator’s crown."

Henry is saying that you can't deny that Jesus is God and doing so would put you in heap big trouble with God. AT THE SAME TIME....Henry makes sure that if Jesus had not been God then Jesus could not have been able to BE the Great Mediator between man and God.

Thanks Ken!

One more thing.....God did not BLEED, as you put it. Jesus took the physical form and took on the pain and anguish and the physical death. When Jesus BLED and DIED, who hurt the most? The proof? The earthquakes and dead men walking and the temple veil being torn. It shows that God did not bleed, but was hurting just the same. Jesus was a part of God, and thus the overwhelming pain.

Again, you may not have even know that you did a good work, but God uses the wicked to do his will also.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Another Awesome Day in the Kingdom

January 2 2017, 9:11 PM 

You cannot enter or see the kingdom if you do not have "A" holy spirit (yours says Campbell).

And I am saying that you or Henry contradict Scripture:

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;


READ CAREFULLY. The word and or KAI proves that the Man Jesus is NOT God.

You say that Jesus COULD NOT be the mediator IF He was a man.
Paul says that the MAN Christ Jesus is the ONE mediator.
Shall we trust Henry? Shall We trust Paul whom Jesus promised to "guide him into all truth"?

G3316. mesites, mes-ee´-tace; from 3319; a go-between, i.e. (simply) an internunciator, or (by implication) a reconciler (intercessor): — mediator.

1Pet. 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

g4317 Prosago to conduct hear, to approach God.

Do you and Henry say that Jesus couldn't "bring us into the presence of God" UNLESS He was God. Well, the musical worship team CLAIMS that they can do that. Why isn't Jesus who suffered THAT He might bring us close able to do that WITHOUT being god? He who BRINGS is not the GOD into whose presence He brings US if we have a holy spirit after baptism with OUR spirits translated into the heavenly kingdom."

Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was MADE of the seed of David according to the flesh;


Shall we believe he and thee or shall we believe Paul?

Now, all I know is what I read in the Bible and Henry missed something.

If Jesus says that He was-is the SON of God
And you say that Jesus WAS God
Isn't that a contradiction?

In Jeremiah 23:

If you say that God said or commanded something
And God did NOT say something
Despising in latin is BLASPHEMY.

Jer. 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

g5006. na}ats, naw-ats´; a primitive root; to scorn; or (Ecclesiastes 12:5) by interchange for 5132, to bloom:—abhor, (give occasion to) blaspheme, contemn, despise, flourish, x great, provoke.

Lipscomb can teach you how to use YOUR IMAGINATION to fill in the blanks which God apparently left for them to fill.




    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Jan 2, 2017 9:18 PM


 
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Dave
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66.112.162.15

Said No Such A Thing

January 2 2017, 9:37 PM 

Ken you said "You say that Jesus COULD NOT be the mediator IF He was a man."

Show where I said that.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Another Awesome Day in the Kingdom

January 2 2017, 9:44 PM 

[linked image]

Diodorus-Siculus refrrenced 4:5 7 Although Medea had been successful in her first undertakings, yet she did not refrain, so we are told, from taking her revenge upon Jason. For she had come to such a state of rage and jealousy, yes, even of savageness, that, since he had escaped from the peril which threatened him at the same time as his bride, she determined, by the murder of the children of them both, to plunge him into the deepest misfortunes; for, except for the one son who made his escape with her, she slew the other sons and in company with her most faithful maids p519fled in the dead of night from Corinth and made her way safely to Heracles in Thebes. Her reason for doing so was that Heracles had acted as a mediator in connection with the agreements21 which had been entered into in the land of the Colchians and had promised to come to her aid if she should ever find them violated.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/4C*.html#40

Mediator is a common word and does not indicate Deity.

 
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Dave
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66.112.162.15

Nope

January 2 2017, 9:53 PM 

Ken you said "You say that Jesus COULD NOT be the mediator IF He was a man."

Show where I said that.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Nope

January 2 2017, 10:33 PM 

Dave quoted Matthew Henry: And now let who will deny him to be essentially God at their peril, but let us own and honour him as God; for, if he had not been God, he had never been FIT to have done the Mediator’s work nor to have worn the Mediator’s crown.

 
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Dave
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66.112.162.15

This is too Good....Please Don't Stop Digging

January 2 2017, 10:42 PM 

AND???
=
happy.gif

Ken,
Henry is not downgrading the term Mediator. He is saying that Jesus could not have been the Great Mediator if He were not ALSO God.

Man, Ken you are making this to be a very very good year.

Please proceed.

 
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Dave
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66.112.162.15

DIGGING and DIGGING

January 2 2017, 10:13 PM 

Ken said "Mediator is a common word and does not indicate Deity." Is this a Keneism or you have Scriptural proof to back that?

Show proof of that.

This is a GLORIOUS day.

happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: This is too Good....Please Don't Stop Digging

January 2 2017, 11:03 PM 

You and Henry say that Jesus COULD NOT be a mediator with God unless He WAS God.

Paul said;

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;

Get help: quickly

 
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Dave
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66.112.162.15

I Have Help....God Has My Back.

January 2 2017, 11:57 PM 

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;

Proves that Jesus is THE MEDIATOR between Himself and God. Other scriptures attest to Jesus being Son of God, Son of man. Hebrews 1, John 1, Isaiah 9, John 8, Exodus 3 proves Jesus to be God also.

You believe that Jesus being God isn't possible because He can't be both. Your mind nor Donnie's mind isn't capable of believing that this could happen, even though Scriptures prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is. I believe the text that God has sent in print before me. You nor Donnie accept the Word, and Donnie needs ""ego eimi" and 'out or in context' to try and prove the Word of God to be wrong.

You still haven't proved where you said "Mediator is a common word and does not indicate Deity," nor where you accused me and Henry of "You and Henry say that Jesus COULD NOT be a mediator with God unless He WAS God."

I said "He is saying that Jesus could not have been the Great Mediator if He were not ALSO God."

Henry used the term "FIT" in reference to as Jesus being God, he was the ultimate Mediator. I agreed with Henry, but I also said that "He" (Henry) is saying this. So where did you come up with you accusing us of saying that "Jesus COULD NOT be a mediator with God unless He was God."? Jesus being God could have been God's Son (which He was/is), the Son of Man (which He was), the mediator between man and His Father (which He was/is), or anything else that God would have bestowed upon Jesus/God. Jesus IS EVERYTHING.
Colossians 1
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And I need help??? It isn't the short term memory that we need to worry about here.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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