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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: I Have Help ... [Trinitarians Have My Back[]

January 3 2017, 2:42 AM 

The Trinitarian concept is always: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Constantly saying that "Jesus is God" [which is never proven in Scripture] sounds like the Roman Catholic praying in vain repetition: "Hail Mary, Mother of God."

Speaking of Jesus' mediation between the only one true God the Father and men (US), both sides of the argument are quoting the same passage: "For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus" (I Tim. 2:5).

Dave, let's make it very simple:

1. Truth: Jesus is "the SON of God" mentioned some 45 times in the N.T. [KJV]
2. Truth: Jesus is "the SON of man" mentioned over 80 times in the N.T. [KJV]
3. Truth: "God is not a man" (Numbers 23:19, KJV).
4. Truth: "God is not the son of man" (Numbers 23:19, KJV).
5. Truth: Jesus has a God: "God, even thy God" (Heb. 1:9, KJV).
6. Truth: Jesus has a God: "God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (I Peter 1:3, KJV).
7. Truth: Jesus has a God: "my Father, my God" (John 20:17, KJV).
8. Truth: Jesus has a God: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
9. Truth: Jesus has a God: "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 15:6, KJV).
a. Truth: Jesus has a God: "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (II Cor. 1:3, KJV).
b. Truth: Jesus has a God: "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (II Cor. 11:31, KJV).


I'm sure there are more references. Yet Trinitarians are still desperately seeking for answers to their man-concocted doctrine of the pagan-influenced, Catholic-invented Trinity Creed.


 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Why Put Your Soul in Danger of Hell Fire?

January 3 2017, 12:23 PM 

Truth....JESUS IS GOD.
Hebrews 1
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


John 8
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am

John 9
8 The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? 9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.


Donnie, I stated the John 9 Scripture to show they you will go to no ends, even tell a lie, to prove what you prefer to be, instead of the Truth.

YOU KNEW that the beggar in John 9 wasn't making the same claim as Jesus DID in John 8. The beggar was merely claiming to be the one who used to be blind, where Jesus is claiming to be the same I AM as God claimed in Exodus 3.

Why would you deliberately put your soul in jeopardy by making that false claim???

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Why Put Your Soul in Danger of Hell Fire?

January 3 2017, 1:19 PM 

Reading 101a problem. I AM is not a god word but means I EXIST. You fail, like your mentors, to honor God by honoring CONTEXT.

God said "I Am" connected to the REST of the sentence. Using no "god" words, the Lord-God said "I am the God of the Fathers."
Jesus said, I am or I existed in God's Mind BEFORE Abraham could say "I am" which would make not sense unless he said "I am Abraham." I am Kenneth, you am whichever personalities dominant for the day.

The ONE GOD THE FATHER told Moses:

Ex. 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

God said I AM which defines the WHICH god.
The MAN Jesus said I am which defines the TIME FRAME. Jesus did not speak of being Deity but of His existence in the mind, prophecy and understanding of Abraham.
Abraham KNEW that His SEED being "In his loins" would be his descendant

The REST of the sentence without interruption which Jesus DID NOT CLAIM

I AM "The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob


Jesus simply said I existed BEFORE Abraham.

Ex. 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


In what SENSE did Jesus exist before Abraham AM?

Gal. 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal. 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal. 3:8 And the scripture,
.....foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith,
.....PREACHED before the GOSPEL unto Abraham,
.....saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal. 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ;
.....that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


We therefore Receive the PROMISE made by the Spirit through FAITH which is contrasted with THE LAW.

Gal. 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.
.....He saith not, And to seeds, as of many;
.....but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Jesus existed and could say I am BEFORE Abraham because Abraham's seed existed before Abraham's and Jesus existed in PROPHECY because He was PREACHED before the GOSPEL unto Abraham,

Jacob cursed the tribe of Levi and commanded the people not to attend their assemblies or synagogues NOR to enter into covenant with the tribe of Levi. Jacob promised that they WAIT for SHILOH. The Jewish nation was cursed and turned over to worship the starry host and became the oppressors even of their own people. However, the Church of Christ (the Rock) existed as the synagogue. These local assemblies were to REST, read and rehearse the Word delivered by Moses. In that sense they were protected until God could finish the sentence of captivity and death. The Spirit OF Christ was not Jesus but was God mediating through small, isolated groups led by non-mercinary leaders.

http://www.piney.com/Exodus.18.Synagogue.Church.of.Christ.html




 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

Re: Why Put Your Soul in Danger of Hell Fire?

January 3 2017, 4:13 PM 

Since we going back to Reading 101a for Ken's vitality, let's state that there is ONE God. How many Ken? Let me give you a hint.....ONE.
You said that "I AM is not a god word but means I EXIST." Correct and wrong. It does mean that God exists, and is not a god word but a singular GOD word. God is not another god, and neither is Jesus. Still following me Ken? Hello?

Ken also said "God said I AM which defines the WHICH god. The MAN Jesus said I am which defines the TIME FRAME.

WRONG. It has nothing to do with whcih "god." God is NOT a god. He is THE God. The term "I AM" whether captilalized or not refers to GOD, whether it be God or His Son Jesus. They are one. If you need a primer for 101b grammar and capitalization... please contact Donnie.

John 1:1 would be good basic beautiful readuing for you to proof your error, if need be.

This I AM and TIME FRAME in Exodus being different from I am of John 9.....Other than your claim, that is the only leg you have to stand on. Hey, guess what? You have fallen because YOU DON'T have a leg to stand on.

One more reading error. Your contention of "Jesus existed and could say I am BEFORE Abraham because Abraham's seed existed before Abraham's and Jesus existed in PROPHECY," is null and void.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jesus, before He became Jesus, was the Logos, the Word. REMEMBER??? Jesus is Forever, because why? He is God ("...the Word was God").
Just take snipits of it. A verse at a time.
:}

As long as there is God's Word Ken, you don't stand a chance. FLASHCARD BASIC....God's Word is FOREVER.
happy.gif

I know I have said this already, but thank you Ken and Donnie for helping, with CM, to start 2017 off with the Truth. I know you might not understand what I mean, like Ken says God takes away understanding from those who abuse it. Does that help any, at all, to clear the air?
happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Why Put Your Soul in Danger of Hell Fire? ['THE God' is not Jesus]

January 3 2017, 6:22 PM 

Dave,

Trinity-biased translators keep doing the same thing(s) to make it convincing to the gullible followers of the human creed.

In John 1:1, the bias is evident when in the expression "and the Word was with God" [in English], the article "the" was intentionally removed from the 2nd clause "and the saying [the logos] was with the god" [in NT Greek text: no caps]. The deception was so that the 2nd clause would match the declaration in the 3rd clause: "and the saying was god" [in NT Greek text: no caps].

The expression "the god" is ALWAYS designated for the only one true God the Father, and no one else: that excludes mighty kings and mighty rules.

So, the proper translation is [without the English grammatical rules]: "in the beginning was the word and the word was with the god and the word was god." NOTICE that in the 3rd clause, the definite article "the" is missing in the expression "the god" in the NT Greek text; thus, "the Word" is NOT "the god."

In John 1:3, the bias is evident when "he" or "him" is NOT ... NOT ... NOT in the original NT Greek text. That's a mistranslation.

The LOGOS, spoken or written, which was in the beginning with "the God," is not in masculine form -- not until "the LOGOS" became flesh (in John 1:14). "The LOGOS" was in God's plan, was only prophesied, and God sent the Messiah (the LOGOS) and came to earth two millennia ago. Jesus, the Son of God, was/is that man.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Why Put Your Soul in Danger of Hell Fire? ['THE God' is not Jesus]

January 3 2017, 6:34 PM 

Acts 10:29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what LOGOS ye have sent for me?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Why Put Your Soul in Danger of Hell Fire? ['THE God' is not Jesus]

January 3 2017, 6:50 PM 

Dave,

There are numerous passages that refer to "the God of...."

For example: "And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake" (Genesis 26:24)

There are other references to the only true God the Father as being the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob (Gen. 31:42; Exo. 3:6:,15,16; 4:5: Acts 3:13; etc.).

Dave:

------- Is Jesus "the God of Abraham"?
------- Is Jesus "the God of Isaac"?
------- Is Jesus "the God of Jacob"?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Why Put Your Soul in Danger of Hell Fire? ['THE God' is not Jesus]

January 3 2017, 7:15 PM 

Word:
1. a unit of language, consisting of one or more spoken sounds or their written representation, that functions as a principal carrier of meaning. Words are composed of one or more morphemes and are either the smallest units susceptible of independent use or consist of two or three such units combined under certain linking conditions, as with the loss of primary accent that distinguishes black·bird· from black· bird·. Words are usually separated by spaces in writing, and are distinguished phonologically, as by accent, in many languages.


 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Gone Out to DEEP Water

January 4 2017, 12:09 AM 

Donnie said "The LOGOS" was in God's plan, was only prophesied, and God sent the Messiah (the LOGOS) and came to earth two millennia ago. Jesus, the Son of God, was/is that man."

That is blasphemous. John 1 proves you to be utterly wrong. It wasn't just in God's plan, not just prophecied, the Word was always with and WAS/IS God. Logic 101 in relationship to God states that if Jesus, formerly the Logos, the Word, WAS God then HE ALWAYS WILL BE GOD

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

It wasn't JUST prophesied, and you knew that....
It wasn't just a plan, and you knew that also...

John 1 confirms that what you say is false
When John says that the Logos was in the beginning with God, it makes all your assertions false. A plan? Jesus, the Logos, the Word, always there with God, a plan, only prophesied???

Your KNOW the Truth, but you just have decided that you aren't going to be wrong, even to the point of losing your soul.

You can call Him/Jesus JUST a man all you want. Take that to the bank and see how your deposit grows.

Donnie, how can you rave about the KJV one minute and then assault it the next? If you are going to tear it apart on the basis of your disdain for the Trinity, then be truthful on your homepage and let the readers know that you really don't care for the KJV OR NIV. So that brings forth the question.....which version do you adhere to?

The lowest that you go is this Donnie....you wish to make our Jesus, Lord and Saviour, and GOD....to be merely just a god. What kind of god is that Donnie? A subgod to God? Is that a mere greek mythology god. I would think you mean a greek god because in all eternity there is God, and then gods. All of history talks about gods in mostly a Greek god terminology.

How sad for you Donnie that you can't give Jesus the Glory that He deserves and the Glory that God has given Him from all time.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Gone Out to DEEP Water

January 4 2017, 1:31 AM 

Dave,

There's no blasphemy in my post that you alluded to.

Was Jesus born during the Old Testament period? No.

The coming Messiah was prophesied. Fulfillment of a prophecy and the time the prophecy itself was prophesied do not occur at the same time. You know that.

The LOGOS (Word) OF God which was in the beginning with God (but was not God itself) did not become flesh until 2000 years ago. Dave, please understand this (without the preconceived Trinity notion), YOUR WORD (spoken or written) is not Dave; rather, it's Dave's word. Without the controversial translations of the true original texts, the LOGOS or Word of God is God's LOGOS or Word. The main difference is that Dave's word does not become flesh; but God's LOGOS or Word (NOT God the Father Himself) became flesh in John 1:14.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: "The Holy Spirit Movement": I AM WHO?

January 3 2017, 11:03 AM 

A Church of Christ is built upon or educated by the Prophets and Apostles.

The Prophets were breathed into or inspired by the Spirit OF Christ (1 Peter 1:11; Rev 19:10)

The Prophets--Before Jesus became the Son of God--defined the REST of Messiah (Christ is not a god word) both inclusively and exclusively.

Jesus whom God MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ certified or "made these prophecies more certain."

Apostles like Peter left us a MEMORY of their eye-- and ear-- witnesses of Jesus fulfilling SCRIPTURE which is "about Me" before the Jewish system could be defanged. The Jews SACRIFICED their own Messiah to illustrate the horrors of human and animal sacrifices with the HOLOCAUST. The lambs were made dumb before the slaughter by the Purpose Driven Levites.

Peter and others outlaw private interpretation or "further expounding" which would decertify the Spirit of God which BREATHED the Words of God, articulated by Jesus as spoken WORD and proven by signs and wonders. This DECERTIFIED any human claiming to hear A spirit.

Because there was and is NO Man, God sent prophets. Jesus was many things was the ANOTHER PROPHET like Moses who was God's mediator who WAS NOT heard. This side tracked the Jews "until" that other prophet or Shiloh which means REST from whatever humanoids PERFORM or BLATHER. They violate Christ's RESTORATION OF THE OLD PATHS which outlaws seeking your own pleasure (music, acting) or SPEAKING YOUR OWN WORDS. Any self-speak or proves, says Jesus, that their father is the devil and they CANNOT teach or preach or sing if you need to "that which is written for our LEARNING."

[linked image]

If you have "A" holy spirit or mind you WILL let the BRANCH or Arm do the teaching. Apt Elders WILL without exception "Teach that which has been taught" and reporove or silence those who do NOT teach that which HAS been taught. That is the MARK which shows the LOGOS or Regulative Principle governing the tongues of godly teachers or preachers. They will never run out of sermons but of the cunning craftsmen or SOPHISTS they are Angels of Blight and cannot speak the truth. Refuting unity in diversity Jesus guides Paul to say that THEY ARE LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

Isaiah 9 says that His NAME shall be CALLED. Those lying in wait to deceive cannot grasp or speak:

He will not BE Jehovah-Elohim or even mighty- eloohim.
His will be CALLED these powers
But His NAME shall be called: The Son of the one Lord-God will BEAR THE NAME of His and our FATHER.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: "The Holy Spirit Movement": I AM WHO?

January 3 2017, 10:51 PM 

Prov. 26:7 The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools.

Matt. 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the MULTITUDE in parables;
.....and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Matt. 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet,
.....saying, I will open my mouth in parables; [Psalm 78]
.....I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.


Jesus taught the masses in parables but revealed the mysteries only to His Disciples in private places.

Mark 4:2 And he taught them many things by parables,
.....and said unto them in his doctrine,
Mark 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him
.....with the twelve asked of him the parable.
Mark 4:11 And he said unto them,
.....Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:
.....but unto them that are WITHOUT,
.....all these things are done in parables:


The Forum can include I. In partic., a public place, market-place. as opp. the house, a public place,
A. A market, as a place for buying and selling: in which professional cooks offered their services in preparing special entertainments
B. The market-place, forum, in each city, as the principal place of meeting, where public affairs were discussed, courts of justice held, money transactions carried on

Jesus consigned the Pipers hoping to get Him to sing or lament or dance the initiation into the gay priesthood to the Agora or Marketplace. Historians note and many parallels show that the Jews HOPED that Dionysus would be their Messiah. That is the worship to which God abandoned the people at Mount Sinai. Jesus did not pray for those with a WORLD VIEW or the ecumenical and God HIDES from the wise or Sophists which are self-authoring preachers, singers or instrument players. All of these actors made the lambs dumb before the slaughter. Even now it is impossible to give attention to the WORD which God breathed and Jesus articulated.

MANY are called but FEW are chosen: there are many passages to prove that those who CANNOT understand are OF THE WORLD ORDER. Neither Jesus nor ANYONE who could grasp the call or invitation are OF this World. They are Lost Spirits Jesus was sent to find and place in the church which is supposed to be a SAFE HOUSE from the world of professional religionists:

Mark 4:12 THAT seeing they may see, and not perceive;
.....and hearing they may hear, and not understand; [Hear and believe]
.....LEST at any time they should be converted, [be baptized]
.....and their sins should be forgiven them .[given A holy spirit]


Many years later John Wrote to debunk the Greek influence that Hermes (Mercury, Kairos) was the true LOGOS and mediator or messenger between the gods and people. Hermes of the OLD hermeneutics was also the god of thieves, liars and the marketplace. A "hermes" was a phallic pole with the real "head" of hermes painted in read. These poles marked the market place.

The LOGOS is the Word meaning what God SPEAKS without having a triad member of the god family REQUIRED to deliver God's power. Scripture says that the GOSPEL which is the Word or Logos is THE power: it cannot be enhanced by a priestly class such as priests and Levites NOT part of the "houses" or laity.

John uses many words to describe God by HIS unique Work as the OPPOSITE of the common Greek. Notice that God is defined by MANY figurative words

John 1:1 In the beginning was the WORD,
.....and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning WITH God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

.........Psa. 33:4 For the WORD of the LORD is right; and all his WORKS are done in truth.
.........Psa. 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.
.........Psa. 33:6 By the [1] WORD of the LORD were the heavens made;
.........and all the host of them
.............by the [2] BREATH
.............of his [3] MOUTH.

John 1:4 In him was LIGHT; and the LIFE was the light of men.
John 1:5 ¶ And the LIGHT shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
John 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
John 1:9 That was the true LIGHT, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were BORN, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his GLORY,
.....the glory as of the only BEGOTTEN of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


That is why the first to use the TRIAS word said that the WORD of God is His SON. "God always had His Word, Wisdom, Breath with Him" so that if you could venture to say that God BEGAN to speak that is when the SON was eternally begotten. The Word is one of the MANY descriptors of God but IT was not a "god person equal with two other gods."

John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake,
.....He that cometh after me is preferred before me:
.....for he was before me.
John 1:16 And of his FULNESS have all we received, and GRACE for grace.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but GRACE and TRUTH came by Jesus Christ.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only BEGOTTEN SON,
.....which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath DECLARED him.


The only begotten SON of God is His Word articulated when God the Father breathes (spirit) His Mind into that of Jesus Who makes the Word audible and visible. The WORD is God's REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE: In the beginning was God's REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE which is NOT another god person.

Jesus was GRACE personified but GRACE or LIGHT or LIFE are not members of a GOD FAMILY.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Fire on the Mountain....Run Ken Run

January 3 2017, 11:18 PM 

He will be CALLED these powers, but it doesn't mean anything.
He will be called God in name only, but Ken says a name means nothing.

Going to Call Jesus God, but that isn't Who He really is, right Ken?

How you gonna tell God that one day?

Please don't answer that...I really really don't care to know.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Fire on the Mountain....Run Ken Run

January 4 2017, 1:17 AM 

Dave,

One colossal problem in all of your arguments is that you are MAKING Jesus call himself God or Jehovah without permission from God his Father and the Scripture. You are also making God and Jesus call each other "O God" or "Oh God" [depending on the Bible version].

The crux of the matter is that it was Jesus who cried and said to God the Father (his Father, your Father, my Father in heaven): "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"? Why did Jesus not cry and say to the Trinity's "God the Holy Spirit": "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" if the H.S. was his co-God?

Would you really expect God the Father to greet Jesus His Son:"My God, my co-God"?

Well, Dave, there's no contradiction in the Scripture. Since Jesus is the Messiah sent by God the Father to earth, there's just no way that the LOGOS OF God was God the Father Himself. You're just as confused as Bill in making the Father and the Son interchangeable as co-Gods. Maybe not too long from now you and Bill will include the the Trinity's designation of the Holy Spirit as the other co-God -- all interchangeable.

Why can't you just let the Scripture speak that God is not a man nor the son of man (Numbers 23:19, KJV), that Jesus was made by God both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36, KJV) and that the mediator between God and men is THE MAN Christ Jesus (I Tim. 2:5)?

The few passages you quote to defend the Trinity dogma have been translated to promote that dogma. Remember the fact that Trinity was invented first ca. 4th century. Translators, including biased Trinitarians were born several, several centuries after.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Fire on the Mountain....Run Ken Run

January 4 2017, 8:42 AM 

Dave has made repeated attempts to squash these doctrines, but isn't getting anywhere.

If they are indeed "blasphemous" isn't the Scriptural thing to do is to withdraw from the site? Sargeant and Rancor keep coming back also.

But people are having too much fun to do that.

Sargeant wants to force Scripture to reveal gender.

But gender of the poster has nothing to do with scriptural logic.

Bill is two-fold--he wants to feather his Biblical knowledge, but he can't get very far from his medicinal base, and he has a fixation on English grammar.

 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

ME ME ME

January 4 2017, 11:45 AM 

Scripture, ya got us all pegged. Now, what about you? You do a self-analysis, ok?

Also, you are right in that I could leave. Been messing around here since FaithMatters.com closed years ago. Donnie and Ken and William (Bill) all had/have a chip on the shoulders from when they accused me time and time again of having them booted from there when I was a moderator.
happy.gif

Anyhow, Edmund Burke gets the credit for the following....
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”


 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Fire on the Mountain....Run Ken Run

January 4 2017, 12:01 PM 

Scripture said, "But people are having too much fun to [withdraw from this site]."

Yes, CM is a "fun" site...

Given Donnie's vain and desperate hope that all his theatrics with text will persuade people to adopt his peculiar and often controversial theology (eg., Jesus is not God; Jesus is not eternal;, the Trinity is a fairy tale; the cross is pagan; it's wrong to sing hymns; it's wrong to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, etc.)...

Given Ken's never-ending fixation with mythology and bashing all forms of music in worship...

Given Dave's repeatedly branding this site as "evil" and "blasphemous," yet he still posts here...

Given Ken's belief that those who disagree with him are "liars" and "antichrists" deserving of "the lake of fire"...

Given Donnie's arrogant presumption that his interpretation of the Scriptures is omniscient...

Given that Donnie is known for attending Madison only to take notes about what he thinks is "wrong" there, but certainly not to worship there...

Given Bill's rightly branding Donnie and Ken as megalomaniacal religious fanatics...

Given Rancor's cartoons of flying saucers and other goodies...

Given fixations with gender...

Given Bill's psychoanalyses of Donnie...

Given Ken's pet statement, "They are lying in wait to deceive"...

Given Ken's convoluted, rambling, and long-winded posts...

Given Donnie's denouncing all things Catholic, yet he persistently relies on the Catholic D-R Bible, fixates on "Mary, Mother of God," and posts large pictures of Catholic subjects...

Given Donnie's alleged devotion to the KJV, yet he claims that certain passages have been "mistranslated" (which means whatever passages he disagrees with in the KJV have been "mistranslated")...

Given that Donnie "welcomes" all viewpoints, yet he turns around and denounces them if they do not agree with his viewpoint...

CM is definitely a "fun" site, you bet. Filled with delusions of grandeur, Donnie and Ken boast that because hundreds or even thousands allegedly read this site every day (though few post here anymore), those people are "learning." Of course they are. They're "learning" that with all the shenanigans going on as listed above, CM is a bizarre circus headed up by ringmasters Donnie and Ken. Despite attempts at being "biblical," many of the posts here are quite comical with all the exaggerated font sizes, multicolored and underlined text in boldface and in all caps, and the many exclamation points. All that conjures up laughable images of a religious fanatic waving his arms, jumping up and down, and hollering, "Y'all going to HAY-UL [hell] if y'all don't believe as I do, for I am the voice of God!!!!!" I submit that people read this site primarily to be entertained by all the rampant comedy that Donnie's and Ken's blatant arrogance generates, plus the hilarious responses to their posts. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Fire on the Mountain....Run Ken Run

January 4 2017, 1:14 PM 

Bill: Given Ken's belief that those who disagree with him are "liars" and "antichrists" deserving of "the lake of fire"...

This is what I said:

2John 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


God is Holy Spirit or pure Mind without flesh and bones.
God said that He was not a MAN nor the SON of Man.
Not likely that He said: "BUT, I can become a man"

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


Christ or Messiah the anointed is not a GOD WORD: Jesus could not BE God unless He anointed Himself as Donnie has made clear.

Messiah existed in God's promise in the GOSPEL preached from the beginning. He would be the SEED of Abraham and FLESH AND BONES AND BLOOD. No one expected Christ to BE THE LORD-GOD.

Dave quoted Henry who said that Jesus COULD NOT BE a Mediator UNLESS He WAS God.
We responded to escape the "grammar checker":

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God, and one MEDIATOR between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;

God IS Spirit. Jesus is flesh and bones. If you say that He was GOD THE SPIRIT then John calls you an ANTICHRIST. Don't blame me.

John also defined the ONE GOD and ONE SON and the Spirit is that "breath" (to fool the foolish) which passes the WORD from God to Jesus who SPEAKS (only) that Word. Denying that also makes you an ANTICHRIST. The Progressives are self-defined ANTICHRISTS because they now hear voices and see visions from A spirit person. I think that happens when the mothers controlling the universities drag the men off to a monastery already too monkish for me or Erasmus to tolerate.

 
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Bill
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99.179.116.207

Re: Fire on the Mountain....Run Ken Run

January 4 2017, 1:55 PM 

There's a vast difference between what Ken says and what Ken believes. Ken can say all manner of Scripture until he's blue in the face, but Ken believes in his heart that all those who disagree with his peculiar and often-bizarre theology deserve to be cast into hell. No doubt about it.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Fire on the Mountain....Run Ken Run

January 4 2017, 12:34 PM 

Dave: He will be CALLED these powers, but it doesn't mean anything.
He will be called God in name only, but Ken says a name means nothing.


The Spirit OF Christ:
Is. 9:6 For unto us a child is BORN, unto us a SON is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and HIS NAMEshall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


As a SON my NAME is called after my FATHER; I am NOT my father.

In Zechariah the BRANCH is

Jesus or Joshua meaning "Jehovah-Savior."
His Father is called "Jehovah-Righted."

Several people in the Bible are named as a form of Jehovah. All of those Hispanics whose NAME is called Jesus are not Jesus whom GOD MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ.

The grammar has no meaning if you are unable to read the context to understand that the WORD (what one speaks) is God even after his "breath" (spirit or ghost?) had gone forth from His Mouth. No one seems to care about the context to understand that the Word of God breathed as Spirit (without metron most often meter) is still God's BUT, the SON of God and not God became FLESH AND BONES and He articulated W.O.R.D.S only by SPEAKING.

Jesus said My WORDS (rhema or spoken Logos) are SPIRIT and LIFE with no less God-empowered and left for our MEMORY by Peter and other eye-- and ear--witnesses AND decreed NOT subject to private interpretation which means FURTHER EXPOUNDING. Almost without exception the "progressives" further expound in song and sermon.

A Church of Christ is built upon or educated by the prophets and apostles: not by the king's scribes whom Jesus calls hypocrites:

2Pet. 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pet. 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pet. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


Private interpretation of the Prophets which define the REST of Messiah both inclusively and exclusively by self-authored and self-exhibiting songs and sermons VIOLATES this direct command and THAT despises or blasphemes the Holy Spirit breathed into the prophets, certified by Jesus and left to supply ALL that we need for life and godliness.

Luny U and Anti Christ University will LEARN you how to use your imagination and steal sermons from the internet SO THAT you can skip "teaching that which has been taught." These people claim that A spirit commanded them to sow discord and steal the church houses of widows. One of the major Personified Spiritus is Apollo or Apollon and he is the LEADER OF THE MUSES or Locusts.

Hes. Th. 1 From the Heliconian Muses let us begin to sing, who hold the great and holy mount of Helicon, and dance on soft feet about the deep-blue spring and the altar of the almighty son of Cronos, [5] and, when they have washed their tender bodies in Permessus or in the Horse's Spring or Olmeius, make their fair, lovely dances upon highest Helicon and move with vigorous feet. Thence they arise and go abroad by night, [10] veiled in thick mist, and utter their song with lovely voice, praising Zeus the aegis-holder, and queenly Hera of Argos who walks on golden sandals, and the daughter of Zeus the aegis-holder bright-eyed Athena, and Phoebus Apollo and Artemis who delights in arrows, [15] and Poseidon the earth holder who shakes the earth, and revered Themis, and quick-glancing1Aphrodite, and Hebe with the crown of gold, and fair Dione, Leto, Iapetus, and Cronos the crafty counsellor, Eos, and great Helius, and bright Selene, [20] Earth, too, and great Oceanus, and dark Night, and the holy race of all the other deathless ones that are for ever. And one day they taught Hesiod glorious song while he was shepherding his lambs under holy Helicon, and this word first the goddesses said to me—
.....[25] the Muses of Olympus, daughters of Zeus who holds the aegis:
.....“Shepherds of the wilderness, wretched things of shame, mere bellies,
.....we know how to speak many false things as though they were true;
.....but we know, when we will, to utter true things.”

Pinder O. 9 [5] But now, from the bow of the Muses [Rev 18] who, shooting from afar, send a shower of such arrows of song as these on Zeus of the red lightning-bolt and on the sacred height of Elis, which once the Lydian hero Pelops [10] won as the very fine dowry of Hippodameia.
.....And shoot a winged sweet arrow to Pytho;
.....for your words will not fall to the ground, short of the mark,
.....when you trill the lyre in honor of the wrestling
.....of the man from renowned Opus. Praise Opus and her son;


Belos 4. after Hom. of anything swift-darting, Dios belē the bolts of Zeus, lightnings, himerou b. the shaft of love, Id.Pr.649

Plato, Phaedrus 259b Socrates
It is quite improper for a lover of the Muses never to have heard of such things. The story goes that these locusts were once men, before the birth of the Muses, and when the Muses were born and song appeared, some of the men were so overcome with delight

[259c] that they sang and sang, forgetting food and drink, until at last unconsciously they died. From them the locust tribe afterwards arose, and they have this gift from the Muses, that from the time of their birth they need no sustenance, but sing continually, without food or drink, until they die, when they go to the Muses and report who honors each of them on earth. They tell Terpsichore of those who have honored her in dances, and make them dearer to her;



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Jan 4, 2017 12:58 PM


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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