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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Jesus will return during a Trumpet Quartet: real or virtual

June 8 2016, 5:07 PM 

As usual WE get the liberty to CHANGE things and YOU who feed my silly face get to "get with it or get out."

Jesus died to give us ANOTHER DAY of REST from laded burdens and burden laders but they want A NEW DAY so that THEY can put a saddle on widows and honest workers.

People demean God and claim to lead YOU into His presence and therefore MARK them as NOT a Christian, Disciple, Student because they do not obey the PATTERN. If Jesus has ALL power and everyone else is commanded to GO then you can obey or spit on Jesus:

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Their claim to get GRACE to IGNORE from "a" spirit proclaims vocally that this command was subject to a statute of limitations. It is not.

Notice that using human imagination is IMPOSSIBLE for those who are GATHERED in the New Creation.

Jer. 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

IF they imagine putting the Table OUT OF SIGHT so we can WORSHIP the apostate singers, they miss the point that SHOWING the death of Jesus is SUPPOSED to cause everyone else to sit down in silence "so that we might all be SAFE and come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH. The Truth is The Word, Logos or Regulative Principle. It declares any one who goes beyond SPEAKING that which is written for out LEARNING as a Hypocrite: in all religious rituals the term was PARASITES. Each night I time the food for the possum, the stray cat and the Racoon. They are all parasites and scavengers but THEY never claim the right to my HOUSE.

Jer. 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
Jer. 11:8 Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do; but they did them not.
Jer. 13:10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
Jer. 13:11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.

By absolute definition of a Disciple of Christ, the flow of information moves in only ONE DIRECTION. The preacher should get an honest job because there will be no sluggards in heaven.





    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Jun 8, 2016 6:12 PM


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus will return during a Trumpet Quartet: real or virtual

June 13 2016, 3:50 AM 

Ken,

"Get over it; we must move on [with the change]" because the youth is the future of the church, and we're obligated to be accommodating even to the point of compromising the truth ... sounds so familiar. Actually, this has happened to a number of congregations. It's "experimentation [tampering with God's truth] gone bad."

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus will return during a Trumpet Quartet: real or virtual

June 13 2016, 4:18 AM 

Scripture,

What the preacher said that "change for the sake of Change" was not worse than "the same for the sake of the same" is essentially comparing apples and oranges. Of course, changing the "order of worship" is insignificant; neither is "change" in itself is the issue.

On that basis, my thinking is that NOT "all that was REALLY on his mind." The preacher is deviating from the real issue that changes that are troubling to church members are those culture-driven initiatives that "modify" or "alter" God's teachings and principles.

Just a couple of examples: When "musical worship" overrides the intent of the assembly as a school of Christ, which is to learn and study God's Word, there is a problem. Just when did the early, first-century Christians spend their assembly times paying attention to the "Worship Leader" [man's idea] leading "the saints" to God's "holy presence" [man's idea]? And the early Christians paying attention to the excellence of the performances of the "Praise Team" (after rehearsing "worship")?

Another example is in changing the purpose and design of baptism from: (a) "Be baptized in order to receive forgiveness of sins and a spirit of holiness" ... to (b) "Be baptized because you're already a Christian and your sins already forgiven."

Of course, 3 songs and 1 prayer or whatever combination there may be is not the issue.

But for one who "just got saved" (by simply believing, a.k.a "accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior) to be baptized because he's already been saved ... is changing God's truth. Now, that change in doctrine is significant. Otherwise, change agents who are proponents of such a doctrine might as well join the religious group that's already teaching it. And that will mean -- not creating a problem for the church or congregation they should leave and leave alone.

(I think I have created a thread based on what I heard/read from BBN a few years ago: "O Worship the Screen" -- same tune as "O Worship the King."



 
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Dianna Howell
(Login dianna01)
107.77.68.25

Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 10:24 AM 

Now that the scriptures are "on the screen", among other things, there is no need to look them up as the preacher goes along. He moves so quickly thru the lesson, that there is no time to verify the verse with what is on the screen. To me, this makes for lazy bible students. Complaining about it doesn't do any good. It has also allowed "harmless" images to be placed on the screen. What are we giving heed to? I never thought I would see the day when an image of the cross was displayed in a church of Christ assembly. Well, at least everybody loves everybody.

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 11:05 AM 

Like Dianna, the screen is more of an "intrusion" into worship and not JUST an addition.

Wow! Perhaps we should start an anti-screen Church of Christ. It might rally many members!

We watch screens all week, at work, and at home, and many of them are not spiritually uplifting--in fact, just the opposite!

It is a pleasant experience to go to a church that doesn't have those videos. What a relaxation!

Bring out the old hymns, trash the screens, get rid of the Worship Leaders, bring the Lord's Table back to the front of the auditorium, endorse baptism anew as a new birth. . . .

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 11:16 AM 

Dianna, Madison's Creed in the Greed statement just "lists" the references. You will find that the "scholars" who write the text books do the same. People tire of my quoting easily but just quoting a long list of passages is proof that the preacher or writer is preaching himself and therefore seeking his own glory. Almost ALWAYS when people just list a reference as a CUMULATIVE ARGUMENT when you read the context you will discover that they are led by A spirit which is NOT A holy spirit.

If the preacher wasn't deceptive he would QUOTE the "thought pattern" or SPEAK that which is WRITTEN for our LEARNING. Learning is that ONE-PIECE PATTERN and beyond that a STAFFED (stiffed) institution becomes a CULT intending to SILENCE THE LAMBS.

The SCREEN is just another way to keep your attention off the BIBLE sitting on your lap. A Christian-Disciple-Student would read "chapter by chapter, verse by verse." That was the practice in the synagogue or church in the wilderness and by Jesus when He attended synagogue and STOOD UP TO READ and then decently and in order SAT DOWN.

When the people were called into assembly on the FIRST DAY of festivals and on the Sabbath or REST DAY when they were settled in the land, they held a Holy Convocation. This was normally led by a senior, non-mercinary member of groups as small as to families. They were quarantined FROM the sacrificial system. Jesus PATTERNED the one-piece pattern which never in recorded history included "vocal or instrumental rejoicing or rhetoric" which was EXCLUDED. People have another 167 hours during the week and ignore Jesus when He pleaded: "Could you not tarry WITH me for one hours?" No, Jesus! we just can't fit you into the Worship Schedule and because you don't charge we just can't trust you.

[linked image]

 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 11:23 AM 

Let's imagine a church of Christ that has the following:

1. No screens.

2. Lord's Supper at the front.

3. Baptism treated as a meaningful act.

4. No Worship Leader.

5. Congregational authority to overthrow an eldership.

6. Historic songs.

7. Excision of books from the Evangelical community.

8. . . . .

If you like, either add to or subtract from this.

We could call out an lot of dissatisfied members to come along with us.

We could catch the church on fire!

Pull out and start a pure church.

There are so many issues and grievances that we might get a following.


 
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Curly
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 2:20 PM 



Wow! Just think what the early Christians endured. Sometimes we are a bit petty on our needs.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 3:17 PM 

If I understand you correctly, I agree with you. Hmm. A culture-driven, "progressive" congregation may be "a bit petty" on "its needs."

Is there really a need for a "Worship Leader" to lead the congregants to God's holy presence [the human way]? I think not!!!!

Is there really a need for a group of "God's" elite singers [???] -- the Praise Team -- as the "Worship" Leader's supporting cast? I think not!!!! Is it a wonder that PTDS (Praise Team Dependency Syndrome) is not an uncommon experience in the congregation when the P.T. is away? A "progressive" church has learned just about all of the "concert-type" praise music by the money-making "Christian Music" Rock artists (Twila Paris, Michael W. Smith, Amy Grant, Chris Tomlin, et al) without any of the musical content scrutinized. Now, in this generation, hardly anyone recognizes the great hymns pertaining to sacrificial Christian living or the truth about the gospel and His church ["I love thy kingdom, Lord ... I love Thy church"] -- written by our own Christian brethren.

Is it petty when the elders themselves selectively appoint another to be a fellow elder (and the cycle goes on)?

Is it petty when baptism, its significance lessened, is just a symbol that an "already Christian" (already saved) performed for others to witness?

Right, petty needs, indeed....

 
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Curly
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 3:36 PM 

Donnie, did you mention the "SCREENS"? That is what I was talking about!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 4:37 PM 

Briefly....

So, first, do you agree with the few points I brought up?

I did mention the "screens" earlier in reference to "O Worship the Screen."

There is nothing wrong with the use of the screen in itself. It's the misuse of the screen when the focus is misdirected, etc.

Please elaborate on your views about the screens.



 
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Curly
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 5:14 PM 

YOU can find it. Script says the SCREENS are more than an addition. She can explain.

GOOD EVENING!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 7:09 PM 

Curly,

Yes, I see Scripture's comments about the screen -- not just "an addition." You see, the culture-driven change agents say that "an addition" is not wrong. We can agree with that in terms of using the screen as a tool or device just like a projector or a microphone or a musical instrument. These are lifeless, inanimate objects that are harmless.

The misuse/abuse of the screen becomes an issue when in effect it is "intrusive." Playing a video of hymn singing with the accompaniment of musical instrumentation is an indication of what the eldership or leadership believes and condones. The women making announcements or speaking before the congregation as [/though they were] deaconesses ("servants" or "servers") because men leaders are "incapable" [?].

Would you please explain why misuse of the screen in those situations is not an "intrusion"?

 
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Curly
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 8:21 PM 

I can see that the screens are dumb. Perhaps, the projector is smart? Now I need to know how are the screens dangerous? I think Donnie may be confused as well. Script can you explain?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 9:35 PM 

Did I not mention the screen, projector, microphone, musical instruments as tools or devices -- all lifeless, inanimate? IOW, they're all dumb without human intervention or operation. I've already given examples of their misuses and abuses, including when screens and other devices become intrusive.

Curly, I think it's your turn to explain your viewpoints, perhaps your defense of why the screens are never intrusive. I've asked ... and I'm patiently waiting.

 
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Curly
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 13 2016, 10:07 PM 



Donnie said,



"There is nothing wrong with the use of the screen in itself. It's the misuse of the screen when the focus is misdirected, etc."

Sorry Donnie, I don't have a have a clue.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Screens are dangerous in my humble opinion

June 14 2016, 12:35 AM 

Curly,

Maybe it's not you not trying hard enough to really understand that which is being/has been explained.

Maybe it's Donnie not explaining or giving examples well enough.

In either case, please read Scripture's post of June 13 2016, 10:59 PM. It's all well said (below).



 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Jesus will return during a Trumpet Quartet: real or virtual

June 13 2016, 10:57 AM 

Church of Christ worship is troubled by every type of Worship Leader, or anyone else, who wants to push his particular brand of worship onto the congregation. This is made much easier with overhead videos, where crosses can be displayed, women can lead the worship, there can be instrumental music, songs don't have to come out of the books leading to simplistic hymns without any historical or traditional meaning.

I have little doubt that early in the 20th century when the opposition to instrumental music precipitated that overhead screens would have been in the same category as the organ.

What is a real red herring, is that congregations think they are getting an organ, but what they get is a degenerative band. Wow! Deliver us from these atrocities!

The Praise Team is worse than a choir or choral group, since it mutilates congregational singing much worse.

Denominational worship may be closer to Church of Christ worship 100 years ago, than is contemporary Church of Christ worship.

Lord, deliver us from these praise hymns, to give us some edification!




 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: Jesus will return during a Trumpet Quartet: real or virtual

June 13 2016, 10:59 PM 

Well, it wasn't the Trojan Horse itself, but what came with the horse.

It isn't the piano itself but what comes with the piano.

It's not the screen itself but what is on that screen.

What is not allowed in reality, is accepted since it is just a "picture" and not real worship.

The organ is just a noise maker, but not real worship, as they argued.

Bring in those crosses, women preachers, love songs, pictorial emotion without logic, feeling without conviction.

Bring in those fantasies, hypnotize viewers with color and sound, but don't expect much worship from the viewers.

Worship the screen, the technology, and modernity.

Place your feelings on the overhead, but keep any real religiosity from your own mind.

Be a willing subject of the hypnotist.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.62.37

Different Priorities

June 14 2016, 9:19 AM 

So while the world mourns the death of those slaughtered in Orlando and rails against Islamic terrorism, Concerned Members rails against crosses and screens in worship.

Yeah, that's quite a radical difference in priorities.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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