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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 1 2016, 10:28 AM 

We don't give or deny authority.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.62.47

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 1 2016, 12:11 PM 

Good. Then there should be no qualms with baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as Jesus commands. However, those who strongly push for baptism in the name of Jesus only seem to believe that is the correct way to go. Moreover, perhaps there are some anti-Trinitarians who even go so far as to believe that baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit equates with baptism in the name of the Trinity and therefore is "wrong"; hence, they strongly push for baptism in the name of Jesus only.

Since the New Testament authorizes both, then baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is just as valid (if not more "complete") as baptism in the name of Jesus only.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 1 2016, 2:22 PM 

There is NO formula which was ever pronounced by anyone.

Bible 101 knows that God knows that people OF THE WORLD will never understand the Word. Therefore, the PATTERN

Is to make a statement.
Followed with a parallel statement meaning:
What I MEAN is then defined.

Jesus COMMANDED that people be baptized in HIS name as the "only name".

Peter was there and HE clearly understood that Jesus commanded in HIS name since He has ALL of the authority vested in the always-pagan trinities or families of godS.

Jesus said baptize in the NAME SINGULAR
PETER proves "What He meant" that baptism was in HIS name since Baptism is the place where disciples CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the NAME of the Lord.

He did no say in the NAME of the father, son and spirit which would be the PAGAN-TRINITARIAN denial that ALL authority in heaven and earth is given to the MAN Jesus of Nazareth.

Col. 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed,
do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God and the Father BY him.

1Pet. 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the REQUEST a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1Pet. 3:21ESV Baptism, which corresponds to this, unow saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but vas an appeal to God for a good conscience, wthrough the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

1Pet. 3:21wey And, corresponding to that figure, the water of baptism now saves you—not the washing off of material defilement, but the craving of a good conscience after God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.90

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 1 2016, 2:39 PM 

The "formula" Jesus provides is baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as He commanded in Matt. 28:19.

The "formula" in Acts is baptism in the name of Jesus only.

So, there are two "formulas," both authorized in the New Testament. Take your pick. I prefer the former, since it seems more "complete." Anti-Trinitarians prefer the latter, since it avoids grouping the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit together. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 1 2016, 4:01 PM 

I don't know how I could have missed that verse.

Jesus said "baptize them as you pronounce 'I now baptize you in the nameS of the Name Father and the Name Son and the NAME the Holy Spirit'."

I wonder if the eunuch's baptism TOOK?

Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Paul must have usurped the authority of the "preacher"?

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the NAME of the Lord.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 1 2016, 5:31 PM 

It is obvious that there are those who reject the content of the subject matter: "God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power". Why? Because to accept that text, which is derived from Scripture, would mean that Jesus is NOT God the Father.

In Bill's first post (April 27 2016, 3:35 PM), he commented:

I've not heard of anyone who objected to being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, unless perhaps they thought that by doing so, they would be embracing the Trinity. Of course, Jesus did tell us to be baptized in those three "names."


Of course, we do not reject Matt. 28.

But Bill says: "three 'names'" but can't even give us the name of "the Holy Spirit."

Whether it is Matt. 28 or the passages in Acts, it is a singular name.

Some folks still question and underestimate (if not reject) the "completeness" of "the name of Jesus Christ" when the scriptures reveal that God the Father (Jesus Christ's own Father and God) gave Jesus all authority or power and his name above every name.


 
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Curly
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70.193.113.20

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 1 2016, 6:33 PM 

Shame on Donnie😢

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 1 2016, 7:48 PM 

What are you saying, Curly? I don't think that "Shame on Donnie" is an argument. So, please explain yourself. Thanks.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.90

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 1 2016, 8:29 PM 

I've said this before, but it must have gone over Donnie's head: Since the Holy Spirit has no name as such and is a designation, then "in the name of" from Matt. 28:19 actually means "by the authority of" (which Donnie rejects because it doesn't jive with his personal theology). As I said before, the same analogy is found in the well-known phrase the cops use -- "Stop in the name of the law," which means "Stop by the authority of the law." Like the Holy Spirit, "the law" has no name as such, so there, as with Matt. 28:19, "in the name of" means "by the authority of." Being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit means being baptized by the authority of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

But as I've also said before, Donnie, being an anti-Trinitarian, prefers baptism in the name of Jesus only, so he won't have to hear "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" grouped together, because as far as he's concerned, that grouping was, is, and always will be the "Trinity," which he rejects. That's why he's been strongly pushing baptism in the name of Jesus only.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 1 2016, 11:24 PM 

I asked about the name of "the holy spirit of God." I agree: God's holy spirit does not have a name because it is not a person -- it is the holy spirit OF God.

The expression "in the name of Jesus Christ" is in scripture -- it is sufficient. No need to distort the truth that the name of Jesus is above every name.

Bill, the "authority" or "power" is not the issue in Matt. 28. It becomes an issue when Bill does not accept the truth that it was God the Father who gave Jesus His Son "all authority" or "all power."

Please read Matt. 28:18 very, very, very carefully and with an open mind. It says: "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." God the Father is the giver of that "all power"; Jesus is the receiver of that "all power."

The reference to the NAME (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is an embodiment of the NAME (singular) of Jesus Christ. There shouldn't be an argument there.

There is an argument when you use the passage to prove the validity of the pagan-influenced, Catholic-invented Trinity dogma.

True: there are entities involved. But note the difference between the Trinity creed and the Scripture.

The Trinity Creed states:
1. God the Father as Person No. 1 [the only one scriptural]
2. God the Son as Person No. 2 [no reference is found in Scripture]
3. God the Holy Spirit as Person No. 3 [no reference is found in Scripture]

----------------versus-----------------------

The Scripture states:
1. God the Father as the only true God [many scripture references]
2. Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son OF God [scores of scriptures]
3. The holy spirit OF God [NOTE: preposition "OF"] which we are to "grieve not"


So, Bill, why do you underestimate the authority and power that is in "the name of Jesus Christ" which God bestowed upon Jesus? Remember Matt. 28:18 (preceding verse) -- "All authority [or power] is given to me [Jesus]."


 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 2 2016, 10:22 AM 

[linked image]

Red letters are reserved for Jesus...and of coarse, the hijackers donnie and ken.

 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 2 2016, 12:18 PM 


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 2 2016, 12:51 PM 

First he says correctly that this is not a formula but you MUST pronounce father, son and spirit over them. He does not believe the connection between baptism and salvation or the remission of sins.

Then he quotes all of the passages about the NAME of Jesus Christ but blames the Oneness Pentecostals fof using the SAME universal COMPREHENDING of Jesus' simple statement.

"The nearest approach to a formal announcement of the doctrine of the Trinity which is recorded from Our Lord's lips, or, perhaps we may say, which is to be found in the whole compass of the NThas been preserved for us, not by John, but by one of the synoptists. It too, however, is only incidentally introduced, and has for its main object something very different from formulating the doctrine of the Trinity.

It is embodied in the great commission which the resurrected Lord gave His disciples to be their 'marching orders even unto the end of the world.'

"It does not say, 'In the names [plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost";

nor yet 'In the name of the Father,
and in the name of the Son,
and in the name of the Holy Ghost,'
as if we had to deal with three separate Beings. (Int Std Bible Ency., p. 3017)


The VEIL still remains UNZIPPED because you deny that THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT

 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 2 2016, 1:33 PM 


IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT CAN TELL ME "WHY" I SHOULD "NOT" BE BAPTIZED USING THE VERY WORDS OF JESUS ??


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 2 2016, 1:56 PM 

Even with my slight grasp of English Grammar, I understand that

The Name OF the Father means the Name by which the Father is called.
The ONE GOD does not have a name: He said just call me "I exist." Because everyone had a "god" the way to identify the TRUE God is to identify Him with a person or event.

If you want to exercise extra authority and use a formula you must say "In the name OF Jehovah."

Donnie wants you to give us the NAME of The Holy Spirit. Scratch "THE" and just say HOLY SPIRIT which literally means a Pure Mind expressed in Breath.

You MUST give The Holy Spirit A NAME, say "David." Then if you grasp reading 101a you MUST raise your hands and say:

I baptize you in the name Jehovah, I baptize you in the name Jesus and I baptize you in the name David.

But, Jesus said the Name OF. It all boils down to being able to read black text on white paper.

The man Jesus of Nazareth has a NAME: His name is not SON but Jesus. The "another Comforter" has a name: it is Jesus Christ the Righteous.

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


Jesus received the Promise of Holy Spirit: that means the evangelistic role of Jesus in His glorified state and He "poured out what you see and hear."

Father, in the sense that it is used means TEACHER. God breathed the WORD into Jesus who then SPOKE only what that breath-spirit revealed to Him. For the Church as HIS kingdom and New Creation. The Father had been with the Apostles when they saw Jesus. However, Jehovah had not been "uniquely" with them because He fills the universe.

God the father does not have a name. The holy spirit does not yet have a name. Therefore, you are stuck with grammar 101a:

Eph. 5:20 giving thanks always for all things in the NAME of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.90

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 2 2016, 2:55 PM 

Sarge,

Donnie and Ken seem to be establishing themselves as revolutionaries or even as rogues in the church of Christ. We all know their stand against Jesus being God, against Jesus being eternal, against Jesus predating His physical birth, against Jesus being the Word, and even against singing hymns. Now they're creating a revolution about baptism. All people I know in the church of Christ were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But Donnie and Ken come along and imply that we should be baptized in the name of Jesus only, simply because "His name is above all names." Of course, we know that Jesus' name is above all names of humans and pagan deities, but certainly not above God Himself. Donnie and Ken imply that using Jesus' own words for baptism in Matt. 28:19 is not the way to go. That just doesn't add up. I still submit that Donnie objects to that wording because it reminds him of that which sticks in his theological craw -- the "Trinity."


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 2 2016, 3:53 PM 

I just sent an e-mail to my good fiend: He has a degree--212 F--from Babble University. He is also a certified Greek Geek.

Dear fiend: "What is the name OF your wife?"
Fiend just responded: "My wife's name is wife."


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.63.90

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 2 2016, 5:04 PM 

Yes, it's a good article. It also emphasizes that "in the name of" means "by the authority of" and that those who reject baptism in the name of (ie, by the authority of) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit do so mainly because they reject the Trinity. Though Jesus uses those words in Matt. 28:19, biased Christians still have the gall to reject them just because they erroneously think Jesus is referring to the "Trinity."

So when someone tells you not to baptize using Jesus' own words, steer clear of that person, because s/he'll lead you to perdition.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 3 2016, 3:38 AM 

Bill,

Again: "By the authority of" is not the issue.

Again: "ALL POWER" or "ALL AUTHORITY" becomes an issue when Bill rejects the scripture stating that God gave "ALL POWER" to Jesus Christ. The preceding verse (Matt. 28:18) clearly states: "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

It wouldn't hurt to begin believing that God the Father is the giver and Jesus Christ His Son is the receiver of that ALL POWER [or AUTHORITY]. One GAVE; the other WAS GIVEN. Trust other scriptures (4 in Acts relative to baptism) that tell you that there is that "ALL AUTHORITY" in the name of Jesus. And there are several other verses that mention "the name of" Jesus.

The real issue is that Trinitarians use Matt. 28:19 to prove the pagan-influenced, Catholic-invented Trinity dogma of (1) God the Father, (2) God the Son, (3) God the Holy Spirit -- "God in Three Persons" or 3-Gods-in-One. The Catholics have another Trinity dogma -- God the Father, God the Son and the Virgin Mary, Mother of God.

Too bad that God's followers in the O.T. dispensation had no knowledge of the man-made Trinity Creed because they were not baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Assignment for Bill:

(1) Search the online KJV for the number of times "Holy Spirit" [capitalized] occurs in the New Testament. You may count "Holy Ghost" in Matt. 28:19.

(2) Search the online KJV for the number of times "Holy Spirit" [caps, no caps] occurs in the Old Testament.

Bill seems to doubt that Jesus was not given that ALL AUTHORITY by God the Father, and that, therefore, it is not as "complete" to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power

May 3 2016, 9:33 AM 



Bill said:

"So when someone tells you not to baptize using Jesus' own words, steer clear of that person, because s/he'll lead you to perdition."

Sarge said: I agree. Perhaps, Donnie will reconsider this heresy and follow the words of Jesus.

 
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There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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