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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 6 2016, 12:17 AM 

Thanks, Sarge.

God's truth is perfect, even if translations are not perfect. As much as I love the KJV (my favorite as well), it has mistranslated passages. We know, we know that translators are human beings, imperfect if not biased.

The manuscripts preceded the invention of the Trinity dogma. And the Trinity dogma (about 300 years after Christ and the apostles) preceded the translations including the KJV (1611). Thus, the Trinity-influenced translations of certain passages!!!!!

It's great to study the Scripture. I strongly feel that I've been on track. Folks who are keen observers know that I quote scripture after scripture. Unfortunately, folks like Bill ignore the scriptures I quote when they disprove the "establishment" human creeds like the Trinity.



 
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Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.5

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 6 2016, 1:32 PM 

So Donnie evidently thinks that translators "mistranslated" (that is, they don't meet Donnie's personal approval) passages like Matt. 28:19, when Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Some folks claim that Mark 16:16 is "mistranslated" or doesn't even belong in the Bible at all. So, when people don't like what the Bible says, they pass it off as a "mistranslation" and ignore it. That's Donnie's excuse.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 12:08 AM 

The translation of Matt. 28:19 is just fine. Thanks for making up the story.

Translation of Mark 16:16 is just fine. It belongs in the Bible. Again, thanks for making up the story.

In regard to Matt. 28:19, Bill would like the passage translated as "in the NAMES of three-Gods-in-one." Proof: In his post of April 27 2016, 3:35 PM --

Bill said: I've not heard of anyone who objected to being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, unless perhaps they thought that by doing so, they would be embracing the Trinity. Of course, Jesus did tell us to be baptized in those three "names."

Sorry, Bill,you're not authorized to change the original manuscript to state "IN THOSE THREE NAMES."

"In the name of" is singular; "in the names of" is plural. It's basic grammar, Bill.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 6 2016, 12:41 AM 

Ken,

That's part of my plan -- for us to learn about the conjunction "AND."

As you know we are currently re-learning the preposition "of" and its significance. Unfortunately, Dr. Bill has refused to engage in that study. I've quoted at least 4 passages dealing with the preposition "of" in the expression "the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ."

Those passages clearly justify and prove:

(1) that Jesus Christ has a God
-------------- and ---------------
(2) that Jesus Christ has a Father


You're correct about the conjunction "and" which is present in those passages. Jesus Christ has:

(1) a God
--------------- and --------------
(2) a Father

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 6 2016, 11:50 AM 

Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

OR

Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the nameS of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

OR:

Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and baptizing them in the name of the Son, baptizing them in the name of the Holy Ghost:

Father, Son and Spirit (breath) are NOT names: the NAME of God's only GATE is Jesus Christ. The name of HOLY SPIRIT is Jesus Christ the Righteous. We have A holy spirit from God and someday WE will be HOLY SPIRIT but not for now.

Fishermen were always some of the smartest and bravest people I associated with in my business:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

They were washed with water INTO THE WORD or INTO the School of Jesus Christ. When you enter the SCHOOL of Aaron the Tentmaker you call upon the NAME of Aaron and ask permission to enter his SCHOOL: you do not ask his father or as the father's MIND.

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people.
.....And the LORD added to the church daily such as were being saved.

GOD is not about the size of Jesus and so his LITERAL FATHER: He is the TEACHER of Jesus and HE is the universal MIND governing the UNIVERSE. He is not a MAN nor the SON of Man and that probably means that a SPIRIT cannot have FLESH AND BLOOD as you see the MAN JESUS HAVE. If you think that you can KNOW the Universal Mind without listening to the PROPHET LIKE MOSES who you WILL HEAR because His Creation is "reserved unto fire" and if you try to BYPASS Jesus and think as a LUite you can "use your own imagination" in "spiritual formation" you are ANTICHRIST or AGAINST Christ or an INSTEAD OF Christ. God chooses not to even KNOW YOUR NAME unless you let His Son Confess your name to him.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not:
.....the works that I do IN MY Father’s name,
.....they bear witness of me.
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might
.....believe that Jesus is the Christ,
.....the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee:
.....In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel,
.....that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified,
.....whom God raised from the dead,
.....even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Bill has never known and does not know anyone who can READ and understand this one.

Col. 3:16 Let the WORD of Christ DWELL IN you richly in all wisdom;
.....TEACHING and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
.....singing with grace IN your hearts to the Lord.
Col. 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed,
.....do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,
.....giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

The WORD is the LOGOS and the Word is OF CHRIST: Logos is the Regulative Principle OPPOSITE OF personal opinions, personal experiences, introductions, rhetoric, singing, playing instruments, reciting poetry or IMITATING or ACTING which is a way to MOCK the FIRST ORDER FACTS.

AGAIN for the slow learners: there is NO FORMULA for the baptizer to PRONOUNCE: The believer MUST be baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ by confessing that YOU believe that Jesus is the Christ the SON of God.

The Son OF a Father is NOT the Father.




 
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Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.5

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 5 2016, 10:38 AM 

Donnie,

This post is for you. The issue is not the preposition "OF." The issue is baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, according to Matt. 28:19. It's fine to advocate baptism in the name of Jesus only, if that's your preference; after all, such baptism is biblical. But don't allow your rejection of the Trinity to bias you against baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; after all, such baptism using Jesus' own words is also biblical.

BTW, you said earlier that you were baptized using Jesus' same words. Since you've had a change of heart, so to speak, about that wording, then you evidently believe that your baptism was "tainted." So, have you been rebaptized in the name of Jesus only to "clear" yourself? If you say that you don't need rebaptism because your earlier baptism with Jesus' words is still valid, then your argument against baptism using Jesus' words is completely ridiculous, unfounded, and heretical.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 6 2016, 12:56 AM 

There's Bill's philosophy -- "rebaptized," etc. Wow!!!

Get to the point, Bill.

Based on the 4 passages I quoted and re-quoted regarding "the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ," your answer should be very, very simple.

Either you reject that truth or you accept that truth.

Which one is it, Bill?

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.5

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 6 2016, 10:43 AM 

I gather that Donnie believes his earlier baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as Jesus commanded is still valid, though he now downplays or rejects baptism using Jesus' words. Donnie can't have his cake and eat it, too. With his change of heart that now rejects baptism with Jesus' words, Donnie has nullifed his earlier baptism; hence, it is no longer valid. If Donnie really now believes that baptism using Jesus' words is incorrect, then Donnie needs to follow his "new belief" and be rebaptized in the name of Jesus only.

The Scriptures tell us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and they also tell us to baptize in the name of Jesus only. Therefore, both are correct. However, I prefer the former, since it seems more "complete."

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 12:25 AM 

My baptism was valid and in accordance with the Scripture -- no need to be baptized again. True: I was not baptized in three (3) names as you believe. Were you baptized in 3 names?

Now, get to the point, Bill.

Based on the 4 passages I quoted and re-quoted regarding "the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ," your answer should be very, very simple.

Either you reject that truth or you accept that truth.

Which one is it, Bill?

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.5

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 6 2016, 6:01 PM 

So, if Donnie really wants to make things "right," here's an assignment for him:

On Sunday when the invitation is extended at Madison, Donnie will put down the pen and pad on which he's been taking notes about how "bad" everything is at Madison; he'll go down front and confess that he rejects the baptism he had years ago in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, because that wording reminds him of the Trinity; and he'll request rebaptism in the name of Jesus only. Then see how far Donnie gets with that. happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 12:28 AM 

Bill, you are an excellent "story teller."

Get to the point, Bill.

Based on the 4 passages I quoted and re-quoted regarding "the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ," your answer should be very, very simple.

Either you reject that truth or you accept that truth.

Which one is it, Bill?

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.5

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 9:26 AM 

The point is that Donnie's baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is no longer valid, since Donnie rejects baptism with Jesus' words, but Donnie has no intentions of rectifying that. As expected, Donnie is in full denial. How can Donnie's earlier baptism still be valid if he now believes that it was done incorrectly? It's just as worthless as the person who was immersed years ago but who now has a change of heart and says to himself, "That was a joke!" It's also just as worthless as the person who is immersed under false pretenses. So now Donnie claims to be a "Christian" with no valid baptism. For all that's worth, he might as well be a denominationalist who claims to be a "Christian" but who has never been baptized.

I surely wouldn't want to be in Donnie's shoes when I face my Maker.


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 8:56 PM 

Bill,

Sorry, you keep putting words in my mouth. We call that lying, and you're getting better at it.

Your time will be better spent studying those passages that you keep rejecting. Put your expertise in grammar to use:

"The God AND Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ."

Oh, the conjunction "and."

Oh, the preposition "of."

The little words ("of" and "and") that utterly destroy the pagan-influenced, Catholic-invented (and the brainwashed Bill's) Trinity dogma.

 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 9:24 AM 

Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146
Re: God the Father ... Gave Jesus Christ All Authority/Power
May 3 2016, 11:40 PM

Sarge asked earlier:

IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT CAN TELL ME "WHY" I SHOULD "NOT" BE BAPTIZED USING THE VERY WORDS OF JESUS ??



When do you plan on being baptized, Sarge?

'''''''''''''''''''''''''
Donnie, what do you think? Do you want to do it together? WWJD?

happy.gif


________________

Sarge, this post has not been edited. (It should have been approved prior to approving responses to other posts. This is a forum issue that causes a post or posts to be displaced.)

I have responded to your post -- you will see it below.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 23.127.32.146 on May 7, 2016 10:05 PM


 
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Bill
(no login)
74.240.208.5

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 10:42 AM 

Before Donnie urges anyone else to be baptized, he first needs to be a good example to other readers by being rebaptized in the name of Jesus only, since he now rejects Jesus' baptismal words in Matt. 28:19.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 9:03 PM 

How cute! Lying is not good, Bill.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.15.209

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 9:22 PM 

You're now saying you never once downplayed Jesus' baptismal words in Matt. 28:19? Don't lie, Donnie; it's not good. You've been pitching baptism in Jesus' name only OVER that in the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, simply because you reject the Trinity. So, cast off your denial and make things right. Be rebaptized in Jesus' name on Sunday and all will be well, all will be well, and all manner of things will be well. You and Sarge can be baptized together (or in your case rebaptized), as he suggested. You up for that?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 10:38 PM 

Bill,

I honestly detest calling someone as "lying." But you continue to do so.

It boils down to this: Matt. 28:19 is fine. No rejecting ... no downplaying on my part.

But there's a problem, not in the passage, but with you when you advocate "three names" in support of the Trinity dogma. The passage does not say: (1) be immersed in the name of God the Father; (2) be immersed again in the name of God the Son; (3) be immersed one more time in the name of God the Holy Spirit.

Your other problem is that you continue to ignore the truth that it was God the Father who gave Jesus His Son: ALL POWER/AUTHORITY in heaven and on earth.

There is no contradiction between Matt. 28:19 and the passages in Acts.

You're correct about one thing: Donnie rejects the pagan-influenced, Catholic-originated, man-made Trinity concept. The Scripture does not not support that concept -- a concept that alters the Bible's teaching: (1) that the Father is the only God; (2) that the Father sent His Son Jesus Christ; (3) that "the holy spirit" is God's spirit.






 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 11:23 AM 

DONNIE and most of us spoke his OWN formula WHICH comes with Reading 101aaa. Here is how PHILIP understood it: I did that in my favorite swimming hole.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
And he answered and said, I believe that JESUS CHRIST is the Son of God.

Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.


Philip was so smart that he didn't think HE needed to say anything!

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins,
calling on the NAME of the Lord.


God is SPIRIT without flesh and blood: He fills the whole universe. He is not the "father" or equal among equals with Jesus of Nazareth and HIS BREATH. Jesus did: give Him the honor.

1Pet. 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the REQUST FOR a good conscience toward God,)
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


People who play the Devil's Advocate shouldn't do it so well.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Jesus Christ Has a God and a Father

May 7 2016, 9:45 PM 

Sarge,

Here was your question:

IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT CAN TELL ME "WHY" I SHOULD "NOT" BE BAPTIZED USING THE VERY WORDS OF JESUS ??

It is an excellent question.

Perhaps, I was confused. Your question mentioned the word "I" [meaning: Sarge], remember? (Although I was very certain happy.gif that you've been a Christian for a "long time" happy.gif since you were baptized.)

There's no need for us to be re-baptized. I've baptized folks myself in the NAME [singular] of the Father, [His] Son and [His] holy spirit." Just remember what Jesus said: "ALL POWER [or AUTHORITY] is given to me in heaven and on earth" (Matt 28:18).

So, it is the same as being baptized "in the name [also singular] of the Lord Jesus Christ."

Again, we must remember: (1) not only that God the Father gave Jesus ALL POWER [or AUTHORITY]; (2) but also that God the Father made Jesus whom ye crucified BOTH LORD and CHRIST (Acts 2:27).

 
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