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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Addressing someone as 'Lord'

May 20 2016, 7:50 PM 


Let's not forget that it was God who made Jesus "Lord."

Here's the reference:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." (Acts 2:36)

So, who made Jesus "Lord"? God!!!

So, who made Jesus "Christ"? God!!!

Indeed, this is truth: "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: They Are Blind Because They Choose Not to See

May 20 2016, 2:41 PM 


Good point and subject: Notice the passages below -- passages that the blind reject or choose not to see. (Side note: short and to-the-point posts can be very effective.)

I Timothy 2:5 is a declarative [universal, doctrinal] statement by Paul, the apostle who authored several epistles to churches and individuals: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

John 20:28 is a personal [exclamative without the "!"] statement by the [a.k.a.] "doubting" Thomas after the resurrection of Christ: "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

Let us consider other passages where the expression "my God" is used:

1. No one else other than Thomas (with the exception of Jesus Christ) who used the expression "my God" in that manner.

2. There are passages where "my God" is used in the manner of addressing God the Father -- not Jesus Christ. In fact, there are passages indicating that Jesus Christ is NOT God the Father (sorry, Trinity Creed followers):
"First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world." (Romans 1:8, KJV)

"I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;" (I Corinthians 1:4, KJV)

"But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus." (Phil. 4:19, KJV)

There are other passages where "my God" is used, and they are in reference to God the Father (I Cor. 14:18; II Cor. 12:21; Phil. 1:3; Philemon 1:4).

3. NOTE the following passages revealing that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is not God and is not the Father:
Jesus said: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46, KJV)

Jesus said: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Mark. 15:34, KJV)

Jesus said: "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." (Rev. 3:12, KJV)

Quoting John: "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (John 20:17, KJV)

4. NOTE also that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, has a God and a Father:
Scripture: "The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not." (II Cor. 11:31, KJV)

Scripture: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:" (Eph. 1:3, KJV)

Scripture: "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (Eph. 4:6, KJV)

Scripture: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (I Peter 1:3, KJV)

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(no login)

Re: They Are Blind Because They Choose Not to See

May 20 2016, 2:49 PM 

Some people claim that Thomas's "my Lord and my God" was simply an interjection, just as Christians and non-believers alike use "oh my God" or "OMG" today as an interjection. But let's be satisfied that Thomas was confessing to Jesus' face that Jesus was his Lord and God.

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: They Are Blind Because They Choose Not to See

May 20 2016, 3:13 PM 

"Simply an interjection..." is a minor argument. I agree. And Bill is counter-arguing a minor argument. Is that it, Bill? And you have NOTHING to say about the numerous passages I quoted that disprove the man-conceptualized Trinity Creed? Please read [again: if you had speed-read] those passages and really, really study them. They're self-explanatory, aren't they?

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Thomas was a man of SIGHT and a rebuked TRINITARIAN

May 20 2016, 5:04 PM 

Contrary to the notion that "The Bible is written in Holy Ghost language" and even the "progressives" who do not or cannot not grasp context, most if not ALL of the Scriptures (Prophets and Apostles) are the ANTITHESIS of the almost universal pagan including Jew's practice.

Thomas was not, like others, the product of a life of attending synagogue devoted primarily to the reading and understanding of the Prophets, held the usual view that if Jesus claimed to be the SON of God then he insisted that he had a right to SEE the father. Among the pagans this would have been possible.

Words like God or Lord are generic words. God or the EL words in Hebrew included any one living or dead which you gave your devotion to: today the performers on the podium are in your face so that they are "standing in the holy places".

The Jehovah words, Ho, Ja etal were also pagan words. Rather than giving people a NAME God says "I exist." He knows that He will be identified as the Lord of men whose experiences are recorded for our learning. There are many places where we know that

That there are MANY Lords and MANY Gods.
However, the Jehovah who ACTED in supernatural ways claims to be the only TRUE ELOHIM.

If you let Thomas trump ALL of the dozens of clear statements that there is just ONE GOD THE FATHER and one LORD as His Agent named Jesus of Nazareth. There is no "The Holy Spirit" so Jesus in his glorified state returned at Pentecost as HOLY SPIRIT (100%) and poured out what could be seen and heard. People who claim that same baptism of Spirit (wind or breath) and FIRE for themselves confess that they have been winnowed by the WIND and are heaped up as CHAFF to be burned.

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Thomas was a man of SIGHT and a rebuked TRINITARIAN

May 20 2016, 9:55 PM 

If you pay someone, obey their commands to "give attention" to all of the "programs" and his false teaching then that to which you GIVE ATTENDANCE TO is your lord AND god. Jesus made it clear to the Apostles who were also tainted by the Jewish polytheism that they were not going to SEE a separated father or a separated spirit (mother, sperm planter, Zoe, Eve among the ancient and modern feminists) or separates son. The "son" the false clergy in Jerusalem waited for according to recorded history was Dionysus or Bacchus the old and new wineskins god.

and the Titanic demiurgic triad of Helios (sun when in the sky), Apollo (sun seen in our world) and Dionysus (god of mysteries, "sun" of the underworld) (see Phaed in Dionysus and the Titans)

He is also Lucifer:And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water. Ezekiel 26:12

"And he shall destroy the multitude of thy musicians, and the sound of thy psalteries shall be heard no more." Ezek. 26:13 LXX

The mass or the Eucharist among the progressives is based on the cannibalism of Dionysus by the Titans Jesus refuted this by saying that "MY WORDS are spirit and LIFE." We Eat the Word or Spirit which for readers REFUTES the pagan myths. The people who eat Dionysus (getting drunk on wine) DENY the Logos or regulative Principle.

In the Greek culture Zeus was the name for Nimrod, Athena for Semiramis, and Apollo for Tammuz.

In the Pregnant Male "The great goddess Hepat, wasa figure of the first who received the newborn Dionysus from the thigh of Zeus.

2Th. 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus,
.....unto the church of the Thessalonians God our Father
.....[IN] the Lord Jesus Christ:

It is JESUS Who is the HEAD and SOLE TEACHER of the Church. Therefore, as repeated may times, The CHURCH is the CHURCH OF Christ. The MARK of the end includes REMOVING the name CHRIST from the public confession. Denying that JESUS THE MAN, A Prophet like Moses. If you deny that Jesus of Nazareth came in the FLESH with flesh and blood OPPOSITE to God the Spirit, John calls that the mark of ANTICHRIST. I don't know how you can be faulted for quoting the text.

God and Lord are GENERIC WORDS. The Christian ANTITHESIS is that you have to define THE God who is the Father of Jesus whom HE MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ.

1Pet. 1:3 Blessed be the
.....God and Father
.....our Lord Jesus Christ,
which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
2John 3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace,
.....from God the Father,
.....from the Lord Jesus Christ,
.....the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

If you say that Jesus was-is God when everyone says that He is the SON of the God who is identified as being the Father, the one of my 'Investment Advisers for the Lord" is correct when he says that he is predestined: God had made him a crown which CANNOT be removed. Jude connected him to the instrumental-trinitarian idolatry of the SUN GODS at Mount Sinai. This was a sin beyond redemption because they were DEFUNCT SPIRITS of which Hermes KAIROS is the conductor into hell.

The JEWISH FABLES Paul warned about are the PATTERN people hear a "spirit" tell THEM that they have been abandoned to worship the starry host. Apollo - Abaddon is the personified spirit and leader of the MUSES or his musical worship team. The Greeks called the Graces and Muses the SHEPHERDESSES and dirty prostitutes. That includes selling your own words or songs and strutting body.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on May 20, 2016 10:10 PM

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Don't Get BURNED in the Morning: Come Praise God!

May 22 2016, 12:31 AM 

Sorry, this post is not intended to deviate from or discontinue the ongoing discussion at the top of this page concerning the "Son of God" (considered "God" by many) and "the Holy Spirit of God" (also considered as God by many).

Dr. Peter Boghossian of P.S.U. (Oregon) submitted a post on page one of this thread in response to my 1st post dated April 27 2016, 2:51 AM. His post is being placed immediately below this one.

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Dr. Peter Boghossian
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

What is faith?

May 22 2016, 12:44 AM 

Dr. Peter Boghossian

What is faith?
May 21 2016, 1:05 PM

Donnie, What is faith?

Ken, I am looking for an simple plain answer.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Sorry, I am not cleared for short answers.

May 22 2016, 1:17 PM 

Words can be "defined" only by how the writers at the time used them. However, all of the faith words means to trust something or someone which includes complying with what you intellectually accept. Here is a perseus link. The Bible is often the antithesis of the general understanding. For instance DOXA words include the world's approach. In Romans 15 Paul defined the way to "glorify" God by speaking that which is written for our learning excluding all of the show and tell. Scripture is clear that church is a SCHOOL OF THE WORD to learn about the good, bad and ugly. Unbelievers base their FAITH on refuting religious institutions. Most Church of Christ clergy are not fans of CM.

[linked image]

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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