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Using drama to attract believers

May 4 2016 at 7:18 PM
Dianna Howell  (Login dianna01)
from IP address 166.137.10.90

Is it against the commandments of God to use the dramatic arts, as in skits, during a Vacation bible school or in the assembly? Do we need to attract the children and parents with entertainment?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Using drama to attract believers

May 4 2016, 9:57 PM 

A child's brain is 85 % grown by the age of 33: that means that is fully ready to learn.

God is defined as WORD, Logos or Regulative principle which is the opposite of personal opinions, person experiences, poetry, music or drama. LOGOS is defined as the opposite of MYTHS. Myths are not just imagined but they are any story that a person tells rather than reading the LOGOS. Songs and sermons are defined as MYTHS because the people believe that they have a worthy-of-wage ability to do a better job than God.

I don't know how successful people who rarely know or believe in the LOGOS can mimic or act out spiritual truths.

The Greeks spoke of "removes" from truth: a poet is one or two removes from the truth and were considered liars. They told the event as if THEY were the person and described what they would do. They especially did that about the "gods" and so mocked or abused their gods by rejecting their accounts.

I remember vbs where a trailer was fitted out as the belly of a whale along with visual effects and a mist blowing in your face. I thought that was very effective.

However, I remember my youngest who moved toward toy telephone without any visible means of locomotion. Long before she had words she carried out a lively conversation with all of the inflections of human speech but no recognizable words: she still has the tape.

When we moved back to tn my eldest daughter was asked to teach a class where a PIG was the key character in learning a sorta like Old Testament story: naturally she refused. The Youth minister was being asked to use cut outs and paste ups in grade 12. So, it probably depends on whether the REWRITERS have a grasp of the true truth.

"Theatron" (the name of a college singing group) is used as in "making a spectacle" of Jesus and all disciples.

There is a lot of hostile literature out there.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Using drama to attract believers

May 4 2016, 11:05 PM 

This was quoted as VALIDATION of an increasing intensity of WORSHIP intentionally challenging God who demands:

Hab. 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood,
Awake; to the dumb stone, [David's awakening God]
Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver,
and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
Hab. 2:20 But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.

Be a Part of Our Musical Worship Leadership

Soren Kierkegaard (1813-1855), a great theologian, was born in Copenhagen in the early nineteenth century. He graduated from the University of Copenhagen and then spent two years in Germany before he returned to Copenhagen, where he lived the rest of his life. Although his writings covered many areas of the Christian faith, he was particularly outspoken on the subject of worship.

He was quite critical of many churches whose worship had become "user friendly." He developed the idea that Christian worship was a drama. He had come to the conviction that many churches also believed that, but that there was an inappropriate redefining of what that meant. What he observed was that in the drama, God was to be the prompter, the liturgical leaders (musicians, readers of the scriptures, preachers and celebrants) had become the actors in the drama and the congregation had become the audience in the drama. An elitist class of leaders had implicitly modeled that they were better equipped to be the performers in this drama and that it was best if those in the congregation just watched as onlookers. This understanding of worship is still maintained and taught in many churches in America today.

Kierkegaard taught that this understanding of our worship of drama was totally wrong. People were taking on the wrong rolls. The liturgical leaders (musicians, readers of the scriptures, preachers and celebrants) were to be the prompters in worship. All of us, the congregation as well as the liturgical leaders are the actors in the drama of worship and God alone is the audience for the drama.


This pagan thinks that this is a good program if you INCREASE the Work Load.

It is truly exciting to be a part of our liturgical leadership of our drama of worship. This year we hope to advance our musical worship breadth to include new types of prompting in our worship. We are blessed with the support of our new Organ/Choral Scholar


This is the definition of making Jesus and His Word into a SPECTACLE and a reproach.

Paul commanded that Timothy WORK so that he could sponsor the Agape which in a civilized sense meant to provide food for workers going out hoping to get a DAY'S WORK.

[linked image]


If YOU perform the LITURGY then YOU must hire the team: singers, instrument players, actors, dancers and FEED the audience.

Jesus is OUR worship leaders when we REST and come outside the groupies and LEARN OF ME. You have NOTHING to offer God so YOU are fooling the foolish and make THEM pay for worshiping YOU.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on May 4, 2016 11:11 PM


 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Using drama to attract believers

May 5 2016, 11:29 AM 

Can you image Ken teaching Vacation Bible School? I'm quite sure he would deem it WOMEN'S work in short order. Kids need to learn from the Bible. However, some quality entertainment is necessary to keep them happy.


I guess Ken could teach the kids some Bible blended Mythology stories. NO, that's a bad ideal. Jesus said so!


VBS requires a local Church and they are scarce around here?



LET THE CHILDREN LEARN FROM THE BIBLE AND PLAY LIKE KIDS.


Good Grief!


 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Using drama to attract believers

May 5 2016, 12:28 PM 

Mark 10:13-16 (NIV)
The Little Children and Jesus

13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” 16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.

 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Using drama to attract believers

May 5 2016, 3:12 PM 



Adult Drama Queens abound. Does any one really want to go there? I don't. Nice weather we are having. Bye!

 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Using drama to attact believers

May 5 2016, 4:31 PM 


Donnie, will you interface with the Adult Drama Believers?

 
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Dianna Howell
(Login dianna01)
107.77.90.66

Isn't the word of God enough?

May 5 2016, 9:33 PM 

As the children grow into adults, will they expect to be entertained or will they come to hear the words of God? Where do you stop the age of entertainment? Don't we get enough entertainment in the world? Are we supposed to lay aside worldly things, since this world is not our home?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Isn't the word of God enough?

May 5 2016, 10:17 PM 

Amos 8:1 Thus hath the Lord GOD shewed unto me: and behold a basket of summer fruit.
Amos 8:2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit.


Meaning catamites or lusted after fruits in Revelation 18

THEN said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

Amos 8:3 And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord GOD: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence.

Amos 8:4 Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail,


Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites: In Isaiah 29 and Ezekiel 33 they are performance preachers for hire, singers or instrument players. The MARK those who do not intend to teach the WORD (regulative principle) nor to obey it. They make long prayers (hymns in the Greek) which they make up in order to fleece or eat up the living of widows.

Amos 8:5 Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit?
Amos 8:6 That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat?
Amos 8:7 The LORD hath sworn by the excellency of Jacob, Surely I will never forget any of their works.
Amos 8:8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.
Amos 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:


They put a veil over the words of Jesus where music means and was used by the musicians-parasites to "make the lambs dumb before the slaughter." They even musically mocked Jesus so that He was dumb before the slaughter. Those who claim A SPIRIT told them to impose "instrumental praise" can fool most of the WORLD most of the time that neither Jesus nor anyone told them that THEY COULD NOT sow discord PURPOSE DRIVEN.

Amos 8:10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.


Isaiah 58 outlaws seeking your own pleasure or SPEAKING your own words. The Spirit OF Christ defines the WORD like WATER and in Isaiah 55 it is FREE FOR THE DRINKING.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, That I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the WORDS [Dabar=Logos] of the LORD:


In the Words of Ezekiel they will wonder around all of the workshops of evil and STEAL WORDS ONE FROM ANOTHER and bring them home and SELL them to you.

Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
Amos 8:13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
Amos 8:14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again


We are at the RIGHT TIME for bandits to run around the country stopping up all of the springs and filling all of the wells. They be Lusted after Fruits: speakers, singers, instrument players. They be SORCERERS (drugs induced with songs--endorphins). They HAD deceived the whole world and This Creation by Jesus through the Word is RESERVED unto FIRE and therefore they Will be or ARE BEING CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE along with the Devil marked by Jesus as "speaking on their own."

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Isn't the word of God enough?

May 6 2016, 1:27 AM 

Dianna says: "As the children grow into adults...."

Great point!

Nowadays, the reverse seems to be true: As adults become/behave like children again!!!

While drama is a new type of performance to some congregations, it may be becoming less and less popular in other congregations. Can you imagine using drama to portray the resurrection of Christ 12 years (12 "Easter Sundays") in a row. How many variations of the resurrection narrative can be presented during each of those "Easter Sundays"? Remember that actors are "pretenders." happy.gif

Speaking of the "second childhood" experience, there is actually a "Christian hymn" [more like one of those campfire songs] with this title: "Clap Your Hands" ... "all ye people, shout to God with a voice of triumph...."

Don't be surprised! Certain adults literally CLAP and SHOUT!!!

 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Using drama to attract believers

May 5 2016, 3:20 PM 


Dianne, how about it? Sarge is spot on? Feedback please!

 
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Dianna Howell
(Login dianna01)
107.77.90.89

Feedback?

May 5 2016, 10:16 PM 

Are you asking me if I think you are a drama queen? What kind of feedback would you like?

 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Feedback?

May 6 2016, 9:46 AM 



1 Corinthians 13:11 (NIV)

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

""""""""""

Teach the children about Jesus and the Bible. Let the children be children. At the appropriate time they will put the ways of childhood behind them.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Using drama to attract believers

May 7 2016, 11:31 AM 

Rubel Shelly as an early promoter of VISION CASTING or at LU using your imagination to get the TRUE message not available through the "legalistic" reading of the Words.

http://www.piney.com/RSReImaging.html

Fred Peatross in defining the Emerging church of Christ facilitated by some of your friends: In this spectacle there is the development of anticipation or expectation about what is coming; there is pacing (a movement from fast to slow to fast); there is total participation by the audience. Music plays a key part of the spectacle. Sound, as a sensual component, enters us in a way in which the visual alone cannot. Previous generations found meaning in WORDS; today's generations find meaning in EXPERIENCES.

Too bad: God speaks through WORDS: The Logos or Regulative principle OUTLAWING any of the body worship appeal to the FLESH. Melody DECEIVES says the Civil Greeks because it "sets the mind on edge to focus on the recurring beat or words." That recurring song is called a LADED BURDEN which "creates spiritual anxiety through religious rituals."

The Religious (Christ didn't establish a religion) music has always been bonded at the lips with gender-variant religious leaders who are dangerous to your youth."

Lynn Anderson's "Navigating the winds of change" uses words identical to that of WICCA. David Young does VISION CASTING which clearly includes the Discipling Dilema of Small-Group CIRCLES. Jimmy Adcox works with the Hope Network which restores the Boston Church discipling which intends to CHANGE and CONTROL your thoughts. Christians are made into DISCIPLES by the obeyed POWER OF THE GOSPEL,.

Witchcraft: "Pacing is absolutely critical here, because this is the main "POWER RAISING" for your ceremony. The folks who plan to offer Praise should show their material to everyone during REHEARSAL, or at least to the presiding clergy beforehand, so that the best possible PERFORMANCE order be WORKED out ahead of time. Then people can be called upon to offer their Praises in such an order as to generate the greatest possible amount of ENERGY. (Peatross and Witchcraft calls this creating the VORTEX).

Lynn Anderson's Hope Network is promoted by Jimmy Adcox working with David Young and the North Boulevard Elders. David Young uses VISION CASTING to get a 20/20 vision published as probably the worst document a Holy God has ever read.

http://www.piney.com/David.Young.A.New.Day.Conference.html

Lynn Anderson in Navigating the Winds of Change
: The worship team led directly from one song to the next without interruption, intentionally moving the tone and content of worship in a specific direction, gathering the congregation into the momentum of the experience. A few songs included clapping and one or two worshipers actually lifted holy hands." Several short Scripture readings moved quickly from

Lynn Anderson speaks for the LATTER REIGN (in Shelly's Words). He quotes Lynn Anderson MOCKING the Logos or Regulative Principle which Spiritual-Logical-Rational.

Lynn Anderson: Sounds right to me, Mr. Huxley! Something like this can happen to faith as well. The RATIONAL (Logos), informational, and linear-sequential worlds of productivity tend to dominate in our lives these days. Consequently, the rest of our worlds suffer neglect, and we are losing touch with much of what it means to believe.

THIS IS THE REASON THE WORD "ANTICHRIST" FITS:

Rom. 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the WORD of God.

The rest of the story told by Huxley includes just this:

"Abused as WE ABUSE it at present, dramatic art (preaching) is in no sense cathartic; it is merely a form of emotional masturbation. It is the rarest thing to find a player who has not had his character affected for the worse by the practice of his profession.
Nobody can make a habit of self-exhibition, nobody can exploit his personality for the sake of exercising a kind of hypnotic power over others, and remain untouched by the process.


That is why up to 2/3 of the OWNERS cast themselves out of their own synagogue without ever looking back.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Using drama to attract believers

May 10 2016, 10:54 AM 

The LOGOS or Word is the REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE and it EXCLUDES any of the performing arts: they are called hypocritical or histrionic. God is neither revealed nor worshipped with the WORKS of human hands. No one was ever so ignorant that they did not recognize that LEGALISM in any of the performing arts as CRAFTSMEN are intended to deceive.

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Demagogue Drama part B

May 11 2016, 8:27 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Dr. Peter Boghossian
(Login DrPeterBoghossian)
67.140.247.183

Using drama to attract believers

May 21 2016, 1:25 PM 

The question is not if using drama to attract believers is wrong or not. The question is why are they believers in the first place? What method did they use to become believers and if that is a good method to use? Did they use the Socratic Method? Can their belief pass the outsiders test?

Is is wrong to use the correct methods to come to knowledge to attract people?

Why do people on this forum talk about nonsense when they should be talking about faith?

 
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