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What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

May 24 2016 at 3:42 PM
Curly  (no login)
from IP address

Please be civil.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Just for starters defining the TRADITIONS added mostlly in my lifetime.

May 24 2016, 6:57 PM 

Peer selecting elders who are not APT to teach that which has been taught.
Hiring a performance preacher to attract audience INSTEAD of sending them out.
Preaching other than READING and discussing the WORD, Logos or regulative principle.
Consistent with the Greek and other civil society failing to "honey and cotton" or "tar and feather" anyone wanting us to pay for his poems, singing, playing, acting or dancing demanded of the MUSIC word.
Ignoring the prophets where the Spirit OF Christ defined His REST both inclusively.
Teaching that The SPIRIT Entity of the universe is a person about the size of Jesus
Teaching that Jesus is the "Eternally begotten" Son of God or that He is THE GOD.
Singing as an ACT of worship.
Using the Blue Book (a prayer book) to silence the Good Book
Teaching the Law of laying by in store BY the preacher
Calling the tired people out of their REST more than the commanded and exampled ONCE a week.
Failing to be the TEACHER of the community by spending money on programs.
Leading a rote prayer as an Act of Worship.
Firing the vocational deacons (THE ministers) and hiring Special Servants or ministry leaders (Deaconesses)

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Just for starters defining the TRADITIONS added mostlly in my lifetime.

May 25 2016, 1:15 AM 

Holding the tradition of men is contrary to following the commandment of God.

Similar to Ken's list of traditions "added mostly in my lifetime":

-- Worship of the Holy Ghost ["stay right here with us"] acquired from the Charismatic Movement.
-- The ANNUAL Easter Sunday worship to celebrate the resurrection of Christ is very special.
-- The annual Christmas celebration of the birthday of Jesus (date of birth unknown) is very special.
-- Halloween is a "church" tradition for "children's sake" ... and participating adults.
-- Valentine's Day as a church event is only for Christian adults.
-- "Corporate worship" cannot be without a "Worship Leader" who leads congregants into God's presence.
-- The CHOIR is a wonderful feature in worship -- just call it the "Praise Team" with microphones.
-- Using denominational materials primarily in Bible study is not too bad.
-- It is more "worshipful" in sight when men lift their hands ... more so with women lifting arms.
-- Motivational speeches are more beneficial to the Christian than biblical or truth teaching.
-- Oh, the Annual Church Corporation meeting!

Colossians 2:8 warns: "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Ken, you are correct about the elders (who are "pastors and teachers" in Ephesians 4:11) teaching that which they have been taught -- "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle" (II Thess. 2:15).

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Ken Sublett
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Kairos and A New Day are the MARKS that the Devil has a short time.

May 25 2016, 11:47 AM 

The enemies of Christ at His First Advent murdered Him because they were ignorant: They did not attend the Synagogue where the Prophets were PREACHED by being READ. The Second Advent follows the same pattern where the Self-Proclaimed clergy with no role and not God-given dole refuse to PREACH the Word (regulative principle) by READING it for comfort and doctrine. That was the direct command from the wilderness onward, the practice of Jesus and the command to Timothy:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that PREACH him, being READ in the synagogues every sabbath [REST and School] day

1Tim. 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to [public] reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Tim. 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy [teaching] with the laying on of the hands of [but BY Paul's hands] the presbytery.
1Tim. 4:15 MEDITATE upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
1Tim. 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Rev. 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:
.....and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness,
.....where she hath a PLACE prepared of God,
.....that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev. 12:7 And there was war in heaven:
.....Michael and his angels fought against the dragon;
.....and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev. 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,
.....called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:
.....he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev. 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,
.....Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God,
..... and the power of his Christ:
.....for the ACCUSER of our brethren is cast down,
.....which ACCUSED them before our God day and night.
Rev. 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the WORD of their testimony
.....and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The Word is the Logos: the Regulative Principle opposite of personal opinions, personal experiences, introductions, singing, playing instruments, or acting. These are marks of ANTI LOGICAL or reasonable and because Jesus articulated the true GOD as the Regulating Principle they are ANTICHRISTS. AT THE RIGHT KAIROS (devil) TIME they have poured out a flood of false water trying to BITE people into taking the Mark of the Beast: "A new style of music or Satyric (cappella) drama" and lying about churches of Christ about Authority, the nature of Jesus, the meaning of church, the meaning of worship, the NAME which confesses Jesus, the nature of faith and baptism.

They are IN YOUR FACE with strutting rhetoric, singing, playing, clapping so that you are FORCED to worship "fellow servants". Real men stand behind pulpits and keep their arms from flying up which always meant "I am available."

Rev. 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not:
.....I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren
.....that have the testimony of Jesus:
..... worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the FLESH profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE.

Those who claim that THEIR WORDS are from A spirit, believe them. Spirit personified is Apollon or Abaddon the indwelling spirit and leader of ALL pretend "Worship Leaders."

Rev. 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
.....Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!
.....for the DEVIL is come down unto you, having great WRATH,
.....because he knoweth that he hath but a short KAIROS
Rev. 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth,
.....he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev. 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle,
..... that she might fly into the wilderness, into HER PLACE ,
.....where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time,
.....from the face of the serpent.
Rev. 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman,
.....that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev. 12:16 And the earth helped the woman,
.....and the earth opened her mouth,
.....and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
.....and went to make war with the REMNANT of her seed,
..... which keep the COMMANDMENTS of God,
.....and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The Crooked or Viper Race (defined as literal autochthonous) or "merely humans" Jesus said were OF the World Order but neither He nor the little flock He came to TAKE OUT of the world order of OF the World, Kosmos, Ecumenical or the kingdom of the devil (Kairos, Hermes father of the new herma-NEUTS)

A Church of Christ is MARKED: It is built upon the Prophets and Apostles who define the "Rest" of Godly Jews and Even Gentiles at the time both INCLUSIVELY AND EXCLUSIVELY. Built upon means EDUCATED: For those NOT blind and deaf the only Christians are called Disciples and a disciple is a student and they have a PLACE prepared where the direct command is to "use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our LEARNING or Scripture." The VIPER or CROOKED race spend fortunes trying to convince everyone that there is NO PATTERN so they KEEP all of the traditions and IMPOSE a new PARADIGM (smile please) which DEBUNKS and REPLACES "that which has been taught" as the MARK of a faithful elder as the only vocational pastor-teacher.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on May 25, 2016 11:59 AM

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Kairos and A New Day are the MARKS that the Devil has a short time.

May 25 2016, 12:35 PM 

Donnie, do you remember a thread where we discussed Noah's Flood?

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Re: Kairos and A New Day are the MARKS that the Devil has a short time.

May 28 2016, 11:46 AM 

"Better to be isolated", indeed.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Galatians Five: His warning against men and women forgetting that Jesus is the only SPEAKE

May 28 2016, 8:44 PM 

Everyone (maybe my kids) are headed to the eastern shores to greet the hurricanes. I am gardening. You might copy this and compare it to the vacuous venting in the morning. This is like the Story of Eve who is Venus or Lucifer or Zoe among the ancient feminists.

Lucretius, De Rerum Natura Lucr. 2.609

This, too, in these affairs
'Tis fit thou hold well sealed, and keep consigned
With no forgetting brain: nothing there is
Whose nature is apparent out of hand
That of one kind of elements consists-

Nothing there is that's not of mixed seed.
And whatsoe'er possesses in itself
More largely many powers and properties
Shows thus that here within itself there are
The largest number of kinds and differing shapes
Of elements. And, chief of all, the earth
Hath in herself first bodies whence the springs,
Rolling chill waters, renew forevermore
The unmeasured main; hath whence the fires arise-
For burns in many a spot her flamed crust,
Whilst the impetuous Aetna raves indeed
From more profounder fires- and she, again,
Hath in herself the seed whence she can raise
The shining grains and gladsome trees for men;
Whence, also, rivers, fronds, and gladsome pastures
Can she supply for mountain-roaming beasts

Wherefore great mother of gods, and mother of beasts,
And parent of man hath she alone been named.
Her hymned the old and learned bards of Greece
. . . . . .
Seated in chariot o'er the realms of air
To drive her team of lions, teaching thus
That the great earth hangs poised and cannot lie
Resting on other earth. Unto her car
They've yoked the wild beasts, since a progeny,
However savage, must be tamed and chid
By care of parents. They have girt about
With turret-crown the summit of her head,

Since, fortressed in her goodly strongholds high,
'Tis she sustains the cities; now, adorned
With that same token, to-day is carried forth,
With solemn awe through many a mighty land,

The image of that mother, the divine.
Her the wide nations, after antique rite,
Do name Idaean Mother, giving her
Escort of Phrygian bands, since first, they say,

History knows no exception to the religious musicians including the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites.

From out those regions 'twas that grain began
Through all the world. To her do they assign
The Galli, the emasculate, since thus
They wish to show that men who violate
The majesty of the mother and have proved
Ingrate to parents are to be adjudged
Unfit to give unto the shores of light

A living progeny. The Galli come:
And hollow cymbals, tight-skinned tambourines
Resound around to bangings of their hands;
The fierce horns threaten with a raucous bray;
The tubed pipe excites their maddened minds
In Phrygian measures; they bear before them knives,
Wild emblems [testicles] of their frenzy, which have power [fŭror]the cause of wrath]
The rabble's ingrate heads and impious hearts
To panic with terror of the goddess' might.

And so, when through the mighty cities borne,
She blesses man with salutations mute,
They strew the highway of her journeyings
With coin of brass and silver, gifting her
With alms and largesse, and shower her and shade
With flowers of roses falling like the snow
Upon the Mother and her companion-bands.

Here is an armed troop, the which by Greeks
Are called the Phrygian Curetes. Since
Haply among themselves they use to play
In games of arms and leap in measure round
With bloody mirth and by their nodding shake
The terrorizing crests upon their heads,

This is the armed troop that represents
The arm'd Dictaean Curetes, who, in Crete,
As runs the story, whilom did out-drown
That infant cry of Zeus, what time their band,

Young boys, in a swift dance around the boy,
To measured step beat with the brass on brass,
That Saturn might not get him for his jaws,
And give its mother an eternal wound
Along her heart. And 'tis on this account
That armed they escort the mighty Mother,

Or else because they signify by this
That she, the goddess, teaches men to be
Eager with armed valour to defend
Their motherland, and ready to stand forth,
The guard and glory of their parents' years.

A tale, however beautifully wrought,
That's wide of reason by a long remove:
For all the gods must of themselves enjoy
Immortal aeons and supreme repose,
Withdrawn from our affairs, detached, afar:

Immune from peril and immune from pain,
Themselves abounding in riches of their own,
Needing not us, they are not touched by wrath
They are not taken by service or by gift.
Truly is earth insensate for all time;

But, by obtaining germs of many things,
In many a way she brings the many forth
Into the light of sun. And here, whoso
Decides to call the ocean Neptune, or
The grain-crop Ceres, and prefers to abuse
The name of Bacchus rather than pronounce
The liquor's proper designation, him
Let us permit to go on calling earth
Mother of Gods
, if only he will spare
To taint his soul with foul religion.

Don't get drunk or fluted down with wine and you will understand that the resource is the WILL or WORD or SPIRIT and Paul REALLY said to SPEAK that which is written for our learning

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on May 28, 2016 8:47 PM

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Do you remember a thread...?

May 29 2016, 10:19 PM 

Good question, Ken. Since we have hundreds of threads to search from. [And I think I have an old-timers disease -- not kidding.]

I have an idea. Let's give Curly that task. Curly does a great job [he's a magician] of finding "lost" threads and particular posts. I don't know his method but it works. He's done an excellent job of bringing lost/hidden ideas to our attention.

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Donnie Cruz
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Re: What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

May 29 2016, 10:45 PM 

Freedom of religion: let the Roman Catholic Church continue to create more man-made traditions if its own. Those outside of the RCC can't do anything about that. The Catholic Church continues to EVOLVE [reminds of the THEORY OF EVOLUTION] and so are the papal traditions -- they call it "apostolic traditions" since they consider the popes as apostles of Christ beginning with "Pope Peter." And there's the doctrine of "apostolic succession" -- definitely "Roman Catholic."

The New Testament church of Jesus Christ, on the other hand, should not be just like the Roman Catholic Church. The church that Jesus Christ established (definitely NOT the Roman Catholic Church) should have no place for either papal traditions or other man-made traditions. Even if these man-made traditions (Easter, Christmas, and other culture-driven "religious" activities) and what they purport to teach are not as repulsive as the Catholic Church's teachings about the worship of the Virgin Mary and the pope as "God on earth."

When it comes to "traditions," the New Testament speaks of contrasting BETWEEN: (1) human traditions AND (2) traditions received from the REAL APOSTLES OF CHRIST -- EXCLUDING the Roman Catholic POPES. Here's what the New Testament says about traditions:
  • Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? (Matt. 15:3, KJV)
  • For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men... (Mark 7:8)
  • Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. (Mark 7:9)
  • Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (Col. 2:8)
  • Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. (II Thess. 2:15)
  • Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. (II Thess. 3:6)
  • But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matt. 15:9)
  • Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctines the commandments of men. (Mark 7:7)
  • Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. (Titus 1:14)
  • And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. (Acts 2:42)
  • Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (Rom. 16:17)
  • That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. (Eph. 4:14)
  • Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. (I Tim. 4:16)
  • Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. (i tIM. 5:17)
  • All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (II Tim. 3:16)
  • Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. (Titus 1:9)
  • ... etc.

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Re: What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

May 30 2016, 10:25 AM 

The Son of God himself endorsed the reliability of the Old Testament record regarding the flood (Matthew 24:37-39). Since he is an eternal being (Micah 5:2; John 1:1) and therefore witnessed the flood (cf. John 8:58), his testimony must be accepted as fact.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

May 30 2016, 11:26 AM 

A Christian is a Disciple and a Disciple is a Student and a Student attends the SCHOOL OF JESUS which is OUTSIDE the "houses built by human hands." A Disciple wants to know WHAT IS and does not fabricate dogma which contradicts dozens of statements and perhaps is unable to read the text because the Angels of Blight make certain that the lambs SEEK THE GLORY OF THOSE WHO speak their OWN Words.

Mic. 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

egressus eius ab initio a diebus aeternitatis

4163. mo-tsaw-aw; feminine of 4161; a family descent; also a sewer (marg.; compare 6675):—draught house; going forth.

Genesis 15.[4] Behold, the word of Yahweh came to him, saying, "This man will not be your HEIR, but he who will come forth out of your own body will be your heir."

1 kings 8.9] There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Yahweh made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

Zecharian 10 [3] My anger is kindled against the SHEPHERD, And I will punish the male goats; [Judas played the flute] For Yahweh of Hosts has visited his flock, the house of Judah, And will make them as his horse in the battle that he is proud of. [4] From him [Judah]

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see MY DAY: and he saw it, and was glad WILL come forth the corner-stone, From him the nail, From him the battle bow, From him every ruler together.

Gal. 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Jesus was OF the SEED of Adam and Eve: my GOING FORTH is documented to be in the early 1500s but I didn't exist as French or Lombard. Isn't SIMPLE really SIMPLE?

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

May 30 2016, 1:22 PM 


"The flood." Why are we discussing Noah's flood? It appears that we may be deviating from the topic of your own thread?

But other matters you've brought up must be addressed.

We've discussed John 1:1 quite extensively. Let's keep in mind that the Scripture speaks of "THE GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST" (II Cor. 11:31; Eph. 1:3; 4:6; I Peter 1:3). (Let Bill Crump explain the grammatical significance of the conjunction "AND" and the preposition "OF" in those passages. Problem is that Bill is likely to ignore those passages because he knows that the truth in those passages will debunk the assumption that Jesus is God and/or that the Son is the Father.)

Let's also keep in mind John 20:17 -- Jesus himself said: "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Micah 5:2 does not say what Trinitarians are saying. In fact, Jesus had/has a beginning/an origin -- his birth and birthplace in Bethlehem and to be "the ruler" -- whereas the true God is without origin. Why would we expect God (instead of the Messiah) to be ruler from Bethlehem and have brothers? There's more to be said about this and other passages misused by those who try very, very hard to prove that Jesus is "God incarnate."

Shall we return to the topic of your thread -- traditions of the church?

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Re: What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

May 30 2016, 1:53 PM 

Sorry, Ken brought up Noah and the Flood. Church Singing a Tradition?

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

May 31 2016, 2:53 AM 

OK, it's been explained that Ken's question about Noah's flood was directed to Donnie (whose memory was severely tested sad.gif ) ... and was not intended to be part of the discussion of "church traditions."

Is church singing a tradition? It is a tradition if worship is patterned after synagogue worship which was simple -- quite unlike the temple worship which included instrumental music and bloody sacrifices. It was comprised of a few elements including prayer, song, reading and Scripture study.

The history of "congregational singing" that we know today is subject to research, especially since it's been "revolutionized" as generations pass, but I doubt seriously that was the case in the early church.

I cannot envision the 1st century church having a designated "Worship Leader" leading the congregants into God's holy presence ... and a "Praise Team" performing to/for those present with microphones or whatever loud speaker system available at the time. No instrumental music (which was man's idea); otherwise, why not offer blood sacrifices and offerings?

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Ken Sublett
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Re: What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

May 30 2016, 2:10 PM 

Churches of Christ have held the TRADITIONS taught by God.

There are many different statements that make the ASSEMBLY the Assembly of Christ.
If we take the name OFF our public confession we refuse to confess Jesus THE CHRIST OF GOD and He will-has refused to confess you.

Before the year 2000 prophesied end of the 2 days and beginning of ANOTHER Day claiming that "the only role of church is WORSHIP." Of course that calls all of Scripture and the VIEWS of the historic church of Christ liars. Church was always a more or less place to worship God by giving heed to THE WORD of God.

Historic churches of Christ have held that the Word or Logos is the REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE and no disciple should have the need to DEBUNK Jesus as our only Teacher.

Historic churches of Christ (the Rock) from the wilderness onward understood that noise-making machines are forbidden even if most preachers do not understand why.

Historic Churches have always observed the Lord's Supper each Lord's Day which is the only day God has called us out of the ANOTHER DAY of REST.

Historic Churches of Christ have always read the simple text in prophecy and fulfilment that Batism is FOR or in order or SO THAT Sins are washed away.

Historic Churches of Christ have denied that the Gift of A holy spirit (Ours according to Scott and the Campbells) and however the Spirit OF God lives in the faithful or baptized believer, it was not a person who "guided you beyond the sacred pages" as Fudge and the Fudgitesbelieve.

Historic Churches of Christ have held that as claimed by Jesus the SPIRIT of God is now in the WORD of God. No: no one ever said that the Bible was THE Holy Spirit Person. I was stupified when I returned to Middle Tennessee in 1980 and discovered that God is a trinity of three persons or people each with their own skills and ranking 1, 2, 3.

If you SPEAK where the Scriptures you will be a Christian-Disciple-Student even if the Lipscomb-Gospel Advocate teaching a view which the clergy taught but the "customers" found disturbint

Historic Churches of Christ have always understood that the Gospel is not a few facts ABOUT Jesus but the Gospel of the Kingdom or Church.

Historic Churches of Christ have always understood that the Church IS the Kingdom of God because Jesus REIGNS as King over His Kingdom: that reign will END and not begin when Jesus Returns.

Historic and still-faithful Churches of Christ believe Ephesians 4 that the APT vocational elders are the Pastor Teachers over the flock. Rubel Shelly perhaps invented the idea of a Located Missionary. An Evangelist must have a GO button or he is nothing. The Terminal-Terminated progressives have imposed the Senior Pastor as THE Leader while elders are just "shepherds of the preacher."

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Ken Sublett
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Re: What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

May 30 2016, 2:14 PM 

Ken didn't bring up the subject: I asked Donnie if he could find it. Dianne has some questions and I have since found most of my posts. That would update an EXISTING THREAD. But, Jesus didn't say that the whole globe was covered with about 17,000 feet of fresh water.

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(no login)

Review on "Civil' for Ken, Dianne, and Donnie

May 30 2016, 3:14 PM 

of or relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters.
"civil aviation"
synonyms: secular, nonreligious, lay; More
courteous and polite.
"we tried to be civil to him"
synonyms: polite, courteous, well mannered, well bred, chivalrous, gallant; More

Ken, I think you are reading too much into the meaning of CIVIL.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Review on "Civil' for Ken, Dianne, and Donnie

May 30 2016, 4:02 PM 

You cannot imagine and impose any kind of musical performance--especially a hireling called Parasites in sacrificial systems--without having been strong deluded so that you believe your own lies and are damned. Jude and the Book of Enoch use the instrumental-trinitarian-perverted "play" at Mount Sinai fo DEFINE those who are PREDESTINED FOR THIS last assault (KAIROS time for the DEVIL) against the God as WORD or REGULATIVE PRINCIPLE which has God calling self-authoring preachers, singers or instrument players. The Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 58 outlawed "seeking your own pleasure or SPEAKING YOUR OWN WORDS." Therefore, Jesus identified the SONS OF THE DEVIL as those who SPEAK ON THEIR OWN. Here is what kids who attended synagogue school and maybe watched the Jewish Clergy and Pagan religious rituals understood as the meaning of CIVIL.

People who are HIRED to direct your mind and body all week in the name of Jesus are barbarians and not civilized.

Rick Atchley
: Many youth rallies hire bands to perform, and many of our Christian colleges have instrumental concerts. It’s about a preference.
The generation of Boomers has enough denominational loyalty that they’re going to find the least legalistic

You can recognize the Barbarians: they want you to believe that hanging you over the fires will give you a beautiful sun tan. In fact CIVIL and LITERATES understand that LEGALISM involves any of the Jesus-Marked hypocritic acts which require EXTREMELY hard work to be able to SELL your body parts and claim that they are MOVED by a spirit.

Well, we discipled the children of those progressive churches
for a whole generation to grow past us Boomers.
They never heard the sermons we heard.
They never heard the rationale for a cappella music.

He means that WE have BETRAYED the parents and failed to teach their children that GOD COMMANDS INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC: In fact, his-their PATTERN is for the GOAT BURNING for Israel which had already turned to BURNING infants. The Scape Goat is Azazel, the DEVIL.

We sent them to youth rallies and Church of Christ events
with some of the finest Christian bands in the world.
We discipled our children to leave our Movement!

That's why those who wlll be-are CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. Their PATTERN explains why they are using sorcery (all musical terms) to PREPARE a place for their PREPARED Children.

[linked image]

"Sometimes he was represented as a horrible idol with fire burning inside so that what was placed in his arms was consumed. In the above illustration, a heathen priest has taken a baby from its mother to be offered to Molech. Lest the parents should relent, a loud noise was made on drums to hide the screams The word for drums is tophim from which the word 'Tophet,' the place mentioned in verses such as Jeremiah 7:31: ''They have built the high place of Tophet... to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire. While drums sounded, bands played, and priests chanted, human sacrifices were devoured in the flames." (Woodrow, p. 72-73).

The Authentia "authority" Paul outlawed because only women normally engaged in SELF-AUTHORING to make "everyone SAFE and come to a knowledge of the truth" impossible. Men now assume that position. Being SAFE in bearing children also included women who hatched children to feed the jaws of Molech at Jerusalem which Revelation calls Sodom and the Motheer of Harlots (selling your own self-authored songs and sermons).

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on May 30, 2016 8:05 PM

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Re: What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

May 31 2016, 3:19 AM 


I concur. It is noteworthy to make the distinction between the "historic churches of Christ" (Restoration Movement) and Progressive Churches of Christ (Change Movement). Here are a few examples from what you mentioned:

(a) Historic: Assembly of the saints giving heed to God's word
-------------- versus --------------
(b) Progressive: "Corporate worship" meaning "musical worship" with the Choir

(a) Historic: Noise-making machines are forbidden
-------------- versus --------------
(b) Progressive: God allowing the loud noise "as we bow down" to worship

(a) Historic: The church of Christ is the kingdom and Christ is its king
-------------- versus --------------
(b) Progressive: The Church is "universal" which includes all religious denominations

Just a few examples. Ken, have you considered creating a table or chart with columns differentiating between Scripture-based teachings and culture-driven, Community Church-leaning teachings?

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Ken Sublett
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Re: What are the Traditions of the Churches of Christ?

May 31 2016, 10:48 AM 

Your format is better: We have listed most of the differences with the Word, Logos or Regulative Principle at the heart. Most of those boasting about two things which causes God to HATE THEM is sowing discord and having "singers" in the holy places turned into HOWLERS. They rejoice in "upsetting your comfort zones" in order to turn school into a SEEKER CENTER which was the CORE of Mein Kampf.

What has to be a CORE DECISION is the evidence that:

Those with a WORLD VIEW which they claim is Christian belong to the Kosmos and Satan is the real Kosmokrter. The NACC boast about converting churches to the instrumental sect by using a few defunct spirits. LOTS of evidence is that they are Earth Born Only. That is important in rejecting anything they do as sincere mistakes. They love their Purpose Driven Assignment.

Here is an old effort to try to separate Joe Beam but when you quote Scripture to him he threatens you in a believable way even if you keep e-mailing him.

From the list it is clear that it is not just a MUSIC issue but a spiritual DNA which means that it is impossible to paint a leopard to look like a lamb.

The Spirit OF Christ defined BLASPHEMY as despising Scriture and claiming that God said or permits something He did not say. They pour out a flood of wined-water. You can get a degree from LU in how to use your imagination to see visions:

Jer. 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
Jer. 23:17 They say still unto them that DESPISE me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
Jer. 23:18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?
Jer. 23:19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.

Fury is Wrath or an ORGY defined as the instrumental-sexual performances marked by the rise of the Worship Teams. Paul says that they corrupt the Word, sell non-learning at retail and are also defined by the CIVIL Greeks and the Old Testament as PROSTITUTES. It doesn't matter WHICH body part you sell in the name of the lord. However, here is prophetic hope because it is a TYPE:

Dan. 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Dan. 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Dan. 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Jer. 23:20 The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.
Jer. 23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
Jer. 23:22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.
Jer. 23:23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?
Jer. 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
Jer. 23:25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
Jer. 23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
Jer. 23:27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.

I am convinced that the progressives can write commentaries on Jeremiah and be the DOCTOR OF THE LAW preparing an end-time KAIROS COHORT (that gender thingy) to mount a final attack.

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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