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Dave
(no login)
24.31.14.205

Say What??

July 5 2016, 1:48 PM 

Ken says "If only God had any use for "mus-ic" in the assembly of saints!!!"

Listen brainiac, does God need ANY of it? Does God need your prayers? My prayers? Does He need you or I to worship Him in ANY way??? For once in your life, THINK!!!

Luke 19
40 But Jesus answered, “I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out!”


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Say What??

July 5 2016, 3:36 PM 

Luke 19:39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.

Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees (clergy), HYPOCRITES. What-Who are Hypocrites identified by the
Spirit OF Christ.

[linked image]

Luke 19:38 Saying, Blessed be the KING that cometh in the NAME of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

Luke 19:39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
Luke 19:40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.


HERE IS THE INCLUSIVE-EXCLUSIVE MESSAGE THEY SHOULD AND DID SPEAK. You know of no one who does not speak out of their own head.

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


I believe that the ROCKS [millstone] and ROLL is already falling on your head but it will be WORSE when that heavenly body lands on you.

Rocks are millstones: to flatter openly and injure secretly, to speak hard words,

clāmo , to call, cry out, shout aloud, to complain with a loud voice, vociferari insanis
exercĭto to vex, agitate, disturb. disquiet krazō “melos kekraga [Loud Melody: there is no tuneful melody in Scripture.

Hos. 10:8 The high places also of Aven, the sin of Israel, shall be destroyed: the thorn and the thistle shall come up on their altars; and they shall say to the mountains, Cover us; and to the hills, Fall on us.
Luke 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev. 6:16 And said to the mountains and ROCKS, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

I CERTIFY that when that PRAISE ROCK fell on me I was already FLEEING Babylon.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Jul 5, 2016 3:54 PM


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Say What??

July 5 2016, 3:53 PM 

Dave,

I was the one (not Ken) who said: If only God had any use for "mus-ic" in the assembly of saints!!!

Regardless of who said it, it is true: God has no use for music in the assembly of saints. You may think that God does, but that's you thinking. What God wants is for His followers/believers to love Him by obeying His commandments. Yes, of course, God is to be worshiped by the individual Christian -- and worshiped in awe and reverence -- regardless of location. Now, there are those who wait until Sunday morning for the "musical worship."

Maybe it's your turn to THINK!!! You may start by comparing the synagogue format of gathering in which God's followers came to read and study scriptures vs. the noisy rah-rah-rah and clap-clap in "musical worship" during the "holy entertainment" hour.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Say What??

July 5 2016, 4:13 PM 

How musical idolatry was restored after the flood: The musical apostates have no trouble lying about being cunning craftsmen or sophists who are "self-authoring for-hire preachers, singers and instrument players." Jesus as HOLY SPIRIT told all APT elders that they should CAST THEM OUT because LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE. So, don't let them convince you that they are just beyond-redemption Biblically Illerate: that would give them a way of escape. They also lie about the historic Church Scholars

http://www.piney.com/FathRecClemBIV.html#P2218_636510

"Now therefore, since you do not yet understand how great darkness of ignorance surrounds you, meantime I wish to explain to you whence the worship of idols began in this world.

And by idols, I mean those lifeless images which you worship, whether made of wood, or earthenware, or stone, or brass, or any other metals: of these the beginning was in this wise.

Certain angels, having left the course of their proper order, began to favour the vices of men, [Comp. Homily VIII. 13.-R.] and in some measure to lend unworthy aid to their lust,

in order that by these means they might indulge their own pleasures the more; and then, that they might not seem to be inclined of their own accord to unworthy services,

taught men that demons could, by certain arts-that is, by magical invocations-be made to obey men;

and so, as from a furnace and workshop of wickedness, they filled the whole world with the smoke of impiety, the light of piety being withdrawn.

"But when all these things were done [the flood], men turned again to impiety; [ and on this account a law was given by God to instruct them in the manner of living.

But in process of time, the worship of God and righteousness were corrupted by the unbelieving and the wicked, as we shall show more fully by and by.

Moreover, perverse and erratic religions were introduced, to which the greater part of men gave themselves up,

by occasion of holidays and solemnities, instituting drinkings and banquets,
following pipes, and flutes, and harps, and diverse kinds of musical instruments, and indulging themselves in all kinds of drunkenness and luxury.


The Spirit OF Christ in the prophets says that God DID NOT COMMAND any of them: they warn about the Lying Pen of The Scribes: Jesus called them hypocrites who in Ezekiel 33 are called mercinary teachers, singers or instrument players.

Hence every kind of error took rise; hence they invented groves and altars, fillets and victims, and after drunkenness they were agitated as if with mad emotions.

By this means power was given to the demons to enter into minds of this sort, so that they seemed to lead insane dances and to rave like Bacchanalians; hence were invented the gnashing of teeth, and bellowing from the depth of their bowels; hence a terrible countenance and a fierce aspect in men, so that he whom drunkenness had subverted and a demon had instigated, was believed by the deceived and the erring to be filled with the Deity.


Of the Rising up to PLAY in instrumental-trinitarian-perverted idolatry, Paul warns against eating with DEMONS. Of the New Hermeneutics, Hermes or Kairos is the DEMON son of Zeus and KAIROS means the right time to mount an attach or to thrust in thesword.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Jul 5, 2016 10:50 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
24.31.14.205

False Teacher

July 5 2016, 4:28 PM 

Donnie said "Regardless of who said it, it is true: God has no use for music in the assembly of saints."

That is false teaching and God's Word proves that Donnie is a false teacher.

Jesus sang, Paul sang.....and singing is musical

You continue to NOT tell the truth. You are a false teacher which Jesus warn us against.

Am I not thinking still???

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: False Teacher

July 5 2016, 7:03 PM 

Dave,

Do you know what "assembly of saints" is?

Paul must have been there in the assembly playing instruments and singing with Swaggart. I didn't realize Jesus had already established the church when he attended a "musical worship."

 
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Dave
(no login)
24.31.14.205

Line is Drawn

July 5 2016, 9:01 PM 

You can be funny all the way to a home with Satan, but Jesus singing was musical, even without your parade of instruments. That singing didn't have to be 4 part harmony either, but you knew that already. You are just getting your dander up again

Musical voice can be chants wih halels read and with only two different notes that might even not sound very musical to our 4 part harmony...but it is sill musical.

You Donnie, are not only a false teacher, but also a hypocrite, because you do that which you condemn. You sing, MUSICALLY, with a congregation. The only reason you continue this charade is because Ken (also a hypocrite and false teacher) continues to deride any worship service and singing during such. You have gotten yourself into a pickle with trying to defend him. It may cost you your salvation. Ken, because of his arrogance is trying his best to lose his soul. He knows too much and doesn't believe anyone can teach him anything. He knows it all.

I still believe that if you are going to falsely interpret the Word, then why not the two of you come up with your own translation and at least make some money at it.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.240.211.213

Re: False Teacher

July 5 2016, 9:08 PM 

Since Donnie really has no use for music in the assembly, he transfers his opinions onto God and convinces himself that God has no use for music in the assembly. There is nothing in the New Testament explicitly stating that God has no use for music in the assembly, nothing explicitly stating that all music is expressly forbidden. We're obviously talking about vocal music, since Donnie waffles about singing in the assembly whereas Ken definitely opposes all singing. Instrumental music is a no-brainer, however.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Line is Drawn

July 5 2016, 9:08 PM 

Here comes The Great Judge!!! Dave is his name. You and Bill have something in common -- making extraneous statements. Let's just present arguments, shall we?

--------------------

This post was directed to Dave -- not Bill. (It should have been placed immediately below Dave's post.) There has been a "timing" issue since the network's forum made the transition from a one-page to a multi-page format -- the issue causing a response immediately below a post to be misplaced. Sorry: it is not a poster's fault. But we would still encourage placing a response immediately below that post if that's the intent.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 23.127.32.146 on Jul 5, 2016 11:59 PM


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Line is Drawn

July 5 2016, 11:41 PM 

Dave, I was only following your logic that since Jesus sang on one occasion and Paul sang on another occasion that they were in the "assembly of saints."

At least 90% of the "musical worship" consists of contemporaneous "praise" music written and performed by "Christian Rock" artists with musical instruments and bands, rather than scriptural songs written by members of the church. No, I have nothing to do with doctrine and teachings in some of those silly, erotic "praise" music.

Speaking of coming up with a [one more] translation, maybe it's time for you to do some really serious research and study -- in detail -- in order for you to learn that incorrect translations of certain passages truly exist out there.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: False Teacher

July 6 2016, 12:21 AM 

Bill, I do most of my personal singing these days of those great hymns away from the "musical worship" that you "enjoy." (I just now thought of using ear plugs once I hear the musical worshipers singing those silly erotic "praise" music.)

Now that you mentioned instrumental music as a "no-brainer," tell us how much you really enjoyed your "work" as an organist before the musical band became the thing at that church?

There you go again with your "nothing explicitly stating [against]" argument. Sounds like a "progressive, liberal" form of argumentation: that there's "nothing explicitly stating" against instrumental music; therefore, God authorizes it.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing II

July 6 2016, 11:37 AM 

DAVID The only reason you continue this charade is because Ken (also a hypocrite and false teacher) continues to deride any worship service and singing during such. You have gotten yourself into a pickle with trying to defend him. It may cost you your salvation. Ken, because of his arrogance is trying his best to lose his soul. He knows too much and doesn't believe anyone can teach him anything. He knows it all.

Jesus said that the kingdom DOES NOT COME with OBSERVATION

http://www.piney.com/Luke.17.Kingdom.Not.Observation.html

[linked image]

I only deride those PROGRESSIVES who have turned a WORD-CENTERED educational experience into a boasted "theater for holy entertainment" as Madison boasted. We are packing again and my wife found my mother's old workbook showing how Bible Class made her more literate with an 8th grade Laura Ingalls' education which YOU WOULD FLUNK.

Jesus quoting the Spirit of Christ says that a hypocrite is an entertaining preacher for HIRE, singers and instrument players. He also included the PAYING audience because when they attended they had no intention of obeying any truth they might have heard. So, I don't get PAID for Self-exhibition any of my own stuff, I couldn't be a hypocrite.

Ken was Brain Washed so that all he can do is Cut-N-Paste: you need an advanced degree for that. This is one of the places I can POST Biblical and historic-validating documents. I am sorry that hurts. I had hoped by now you would record your flock singing Ephesians 5 after I turned it into a one or two note MELODY: Melody as tunefulness belongs to the 19th century so I can be pretty certain that Jesus did not warble a hymn: the latin said that they SPOKE a ONCE A YEAR HYMN. That would be the manly way to "speak that which is written.

[linked image]

scaenicus was OUTLAWED in Romans 15 so that the ONE PIECE PATTERN could take place: "Use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our LEARNING" or "Scripture for our COMFORT."

I AM TRULY SORRY BUT YORE "PRAISE SANGING" DISCOMFORTS ME AND "DOES MORE HARM THAN GOOD" SO 1 CORINTHIANS 11 EXCUSES ME TO BE "OUTSIDE THE MASSES TO ACCEPT THE INVITATION OF JESUS TO LEARN OF ME. If you have an APT elder commanded to "Teach that which HAS BEEN taught" I might attend. I was LEARNED from Clay Tablets why the Purpose Driven Purpose for making worship rituals calculated to EXCLUDE almost everyone because:

"Evil men set their lies to melodies to deceive the simple minded."


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Jul 6, 2016 11:47 AM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.180.96

Re: Church Singing II

July 6 2016, 6:26 PM 

ALL of the progressives and INSTRUMENTALISTS infiltrating and diverting your investment make a COTTAGE INDUSTRY out of claiming that ANTI-INSTRUMENTALISTS. STOPPED the use of instrumental music and SPLIT CHURCHES when the instrumentalist slipped the melodeon into a church over the elder's protest. There is a serious Biblical and Ethical Crisis among the universities and preachers working as agents of the NACC.

ALL of the progressives hang or hang together based on Rick Atchley claiming that "a" spirit told it was time (after 12 years) to OUT his agenda to divert the church into the instrumental Sectarian Denomination. This "spirit" told him that burning infants momentarily stopped by burning goats, was GOD'S command for that church and "WE will not be disobedient." Believe him: Apollon was one of the gods of the Jews is the ONLY PERSONIFIED SPIRIT: he is the leader of the muses or locusts driving the godly out of neo- and prophesied Babylon.

1911 Britannica since somewhat purged of anti-catholic papters

Christian

The polyphony of Christian a cappella music began to develop in Europe around the late 15th century AD, with compositions by Josquin des Prez.[3] The early a cappella polyphonies may have had an accompanying instrument, although this instrument would merely double the singers' parts and was not independent.

Melody is not polyphonic or harmonic: Melody was not "tunful" until the 19th century and still can mean ONLY a series of single tones. There was no musical melody known as proven to the MARKING of the instrumental Invaders of Homes and spiritual terrorists. We have noted that ISIS is the mother of the Egyptian Trinity.

By the 16th century, a cappella polyphony had further developed, but gradually, the cantata began to take the place of a cappella forms.[3] 16th century a cappella polyphony, nonetheless, continued to influence church composers throughout this period and to the present day.

Recent evidence has shown that some of the early pieces by Palestrina, such as what was written for the Sistine Chapel was intended to be accompanied by an organ "doubling" some or all of the voices.[3] Such is seen in the life of Palestrina becoming a major influence on Bach, most notably in the aforementioned Mass in B Minor. Other composers that utilized the a cappella style, if only for the occasional piece, were Claudio Monteverdi and his masterpiece, Lagrime d'amante al sepolcro dell'amata (A lover's tears at his beloved's grave), which was composed in 1610,[4] and Andrea Gabrieli when upon his death it was discovered many choral pieces, one of which was in the unaccompanied style.[5] Learning from the preceding two composeres, Heinrich Schütz utilized the a cappella style in numerous pieces, chief among these were the pieces in the oratorio style, which were traditionally performed during the Easter week and dealt with the religious subject matter of that week, such as Christ's suffering and the Passion. Five of Schutz's Historien were Easter pieces, and of these the latter three, which dealt with the passion from three different viewpoints, those of Matthew, Luke and John, were all done a cappella style. This was a near requirement for this type of piece, and the parts of the crowd were sung while the solo parts which were the quoted parts from either Christ or the authors were performed in a plainchant.[6]

Opposition to instruments in worship

Present-day Christian religious bodies known for conducting their worship services without musical accompaniment include some Presbyterian churches devoted to the regulative principle of worship, Old Regular Baptists, Primitive Baptists, Plymouth Brethren, Churches of Christ, the Old German Baptist Brethren, Doukhobors the Byzantine Rite and the Amish, Old Order Mennonites and Conservative Mennonites. Certain high church services and other musical events in liturgical churches (such as the Roman Catholic Mass and the Lutheran Divine Service) may be a cappella, a practice remaining from apostolic times


We have noted that the Campbells oozed out of the Presbyterian church: Calvin knew that the Regulative Principle is the Word or Logos. The Instrumental Terrorists go ballistic when you appeal to the Commands, examples or inferences to EXCLUDE anything not contributing to what the Campbells defined as A School of Christ. That is because they BELIEVE that a "spirit" now reveals what God called wicked imaginations or simply pretenses to gain power and money.

[linked image]

The apostates do not want you to DEFINE words: that would interfere with their reception through an antenna sticking out of their head. Why do they lie? Because you can fool most of the people most of the time.



.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
75.107.248.79

Re: Church Singing II

September 2 2016, 11:12 PM 

All religious music and names of instruments are derived from destructive acts, intended to hurt or fleece and Jesus as Holy Spirit has John in Revelation 18 call them SORCERERS. They HAD ONCE deceived the whole world and the sorcery word points to the original Babylonian Harlot. Not as the CAUSE but as the MARK of those religious craftsmen (cunning craftsmen, sophists: speakers, singers, instrument players) will be CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

Example: the bronze serpent was the mark of ongoing serpent, fire and heavenly host. The code is that GOD punishes people with that which they USED to silence the voice of God.

The HOLOCAUST defines the burnt offering of infants mitigated in the PATTERN of 2 Chronicles 29 by burning goats. Isaiah 30 shows that the wind, string and percussion instruments would be the SOUNDS of God driving His enemies into hell.

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

We have noted that SPEAK is the OPPOSITE of ODE: singing in a religious sense is led by Apollon and his musical worship team the MUSES known as musical prophesiers.

[linked image]

Once you have been Strongly Deluded into supernatural LYING WONDERS (performing works of self righteousness as OBSERVATIONS to which the kingdom will never com.): "No turning back, No turning back."

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
184.63.141.155

Ode Silence Part B

September 3 2016, 12:11 PM 

[linked image]Pagans have always made a profession of "controlling the gods." "Gods" were considered fickle and dangerous and if you did not sing to them, dance with them, feed them and build them the best house that "god" might hurt you. God's message is that since you are NOT God, He will be happy and you will receive the value of HIS mind or Spirit if you just PREACH the WORD (only) by READING the Word for comfort and doctrine. He issued no plans for people to make merchandise of His Word which forces them to speak THEIR contradictory words.

Those OF the World, kosmos, Ecumenical or the kingdom of the devil

Deuteronomy is the SECOND LAW given because the Jews violated The Book of The Covenant of Grace at Mount Sinai.

Paul shows how the prophecies in Deuteronomy are violated by those DESPISING THE WORD (blasphemy) by denying its power. They are still LOST and LOOKING by performing religious rituals to SILENCE the One-Piece Pattern of the church as a SCHOOL OF CHRIST in the Prophets and Apostles.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I SPEAK these things.

John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my WORD hath no place in you.
John 8:38 I SPEAK that which I have seen with my Father:
and ye DO that which ye have seen with your father.

poieo [work, execute, transgress the law. [4238] to “practise”, i.e. perform repeatedly or habitually, compose, the arts, performer of the arts.
Facio perform, accomplish, prepare, produce, bring to pass, cause, effect, create, commit, perpetrate, form, fashion, “poëma,” to compose, id. Pis. 29, 70: “carmina, [sing-play]” Juv. 7, 28: “versus,” id. 7, 38: “sermonem,” Cic. Fam. 9, 8, 1; cf. “litteram,” id. Ac. 2, 2, 6: ludos, to celebrate, exhibit = edere


Those who have the Devil do not speak the WORD and claim that the WORD of God does not limit them. Therefore, rather than SPEAK the Word they DO religious observations. Jesus said that the kingdom is within and does not come with observation defined as religious operations of DOING. These are defined by Paul as the Lying Wonders of those who are strongly deluded.

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not:
for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words,
hath one that judgeth him: the WORD that I have spoken,
the same shall judge him in the last day


John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
  • John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am IN the Father, and the Father IN me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth IN me, he doeth the works.

Father-Son are IN us and we are IN Him based on "keeping God's commandments."

We will post that parallel.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.141.155 on Sep 3, 2016 6:34 PM


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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