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What is The Value of The Local Church?

July 1 2016 at 9:31 AM
Rancor  (no login)
from IP address

Why do you attend?

Why do you not attend?


NOTE: Above is the original [unedited] message. [d.c.]

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Jul 2, 2016 9:54 PM

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Donnie Cruz
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Re: What is The Value of The Local Church?

July 1 2016, 9:44 PM 


This is a very good topic to discuss. [ . . . ]


[ . . . ]


Resume the discussion ... shall we? [d.c.]

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Jul 2, 2016 9:50 PM

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Donnie Cruz
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Re: What is The Value of The Local Church?

July 3 2016, 8:28 PM 

We may need a definition of "local church."

What is the difference between the body of Christ worldwide and the local church?

Can a family of parents and their children assembling together be considered "attending a local church"?

Is a physically disabled Christian required to be in the assembly?

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Ken Sublett
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Re: What is The Value of The Local Church?

July 3 2016, 11:33 PM 

I am still waiting for some scholar who can define CHURCH or the Ekklesia or who can define the Purpose Driven Purpose or who can define "worship."

If you can't define it how can you find it?

Many (most) are called (invited) but few (almost none) are chosen or become the electos. Jesus invites the twos and threes to come OUTSIDE to rest and "learn of me."

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Dianna Howell
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What is the value of the local church?

July 7 2016, 10:08 PM 

We currently assemble in our home on the Lords day to read the word. We include the Lords Supper. This has helped us to grow closer individually to The Lord Jesus Christ, and to each other. We are not being separated from one another to different classes, and we know that truth is being spoken. We believe that worshipping The Lord is giving heed to what he delivered from the Father. We believe that Christ was the Spirit who spoke thru the apostles and the prophets. We have been talking with our neighbors about The Lord. I do see the value in assembling with others, but we have Noah's example, and if they don't believe we have to keep moving forward. We know that time is short, so we must spread the gospel.

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Re: What is the value of the local church?

July 8 2016, 9:44 AM 

"Noah's example." Noah and family were shut in an ark with all the animals and couldn't go anywhere. After the flood, "Noah's example" was to sacrifice unto the Lord (Gen 8:20).

Do Christians follow "Noah's example" by being trapped in arks and offering sacrifices to God today?

Of course, there is that full-size, 100-million-dollar replica of Noah's ark now on display in Williamstown, Kentucky. It's made of wood, but not gopher wood, however. There are even replicas of dinosaurs in cages. happy.gif

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Ken Sublett
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Noah got INTO the Ark by faith

July 8 2016, 10:44 AM 

Good point, Dianna: remember that Jesus told the sectarian clergy that truth had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the world. That begins in Genesis 1:1 for those making traffic out of picking the day of week the earth was created ex nihlo. The creation--creating earth (not globe but a fruitful place) in the water and standing out of water. The flood uses the same void and useless terms as does the Red Sea and the BECOME void and empty Israelite nation.

The word for mercy seat is the Hebrew word kapporeth (h3727) is a cover or lid. This is derived from the prime root kaphar (h3722) which means to cover in the sense of cover with bitumen and means to expiate or condone to placate or to cancel. The concept is to appease or atone, cleanse or disannul, forgive, be merciful, pacify, pardon, purge, to pitch or to reconcile.

The pitch is defined as

H3724 kôpher ko'-fer From H3722 ; properly a cover, that is, (literally) a village (as covered in); (specifically) bitumen (as used for coating), and the henna [bright red] plant (as used for dyeing); figuratively a redemption price:--bribe, camphire, pitch, ransom, satisfaction, sum of money, village.

H3722 kâphar kaw-far' A primitive root; to cover (specifically with bitumen); figuratively to expiate or condone, to placate or cancel:--appease, make (an) atonement, cleanse, disannul, forgive, be merciful, pacify, pardon, to pitch, purge (away), put off, (make) reconcile (-liation).

This has the same meaning as baptism

1 Pet. 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient,
.....when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
.....while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is,
.....eight souls were saved by water.

Baptism is like God, the Ark and the Water: it was given POWER by Faith which worked. God's power is always VESTED in something.

Arca , ae, f. [arceo: arca et arx quasi res secretae, I. a place for keeping any thing, a chest, box. 2. A coffin (cf. Smith, Dict. Antiq.) cadavera Conservus vili portanda locabat in arca-,

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet,
.....moved with fear,
..... prepared an ark to the saving of his house; the which he condemned the world,
.....and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Baptism is "TYPE or a MODEL of FORM intended FOR IMITATION." It involves, God, faith, obedience, being placed IN the coffin, being saved BY water because THAT is how God planned it and since I AM NOT GOD I will not be caught "dead" calling Him a liar.

1 Pet. 3:21 The like figure (Antitupon or Antitype counterpart) whereunto
.....even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
.....but the answer of [Appeal FOR A holy spirit] a good conscience toward God,) the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Anti (g473) an-tee'; a prim. particle; opposite, i.e. INSTEAD or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, SUBSTITUTION, correspondence, etc.

We are baptized by GRACE instead of having to build an Ark or drown
We are baptized by GRACE instead of having to cross the Red Sea or be destroyed by FAITH ONLY when God said "Quit whining, lift up your arm and MOVE into the jaws of death.
We are baptized by GRACE instead of having to be pinned on a stake and shed OUR blood.

When you have to EXPLAIN AWAY what the text MAKES CLEAR you may have exhausted God's Grace.

Tupos (g5179) too'-pos; from 5180; a die (as struck), i.e. (by impl.) a stamp or scar; by anal. a shape, i.e. a statue, (fig.) style or resemblance; spec. a sampler ("type"), i.e. a model (for imitation) or instance (for warning): - en- (ex-) ample, fashion, figure, form, manner, pattern, print.

Baptism as obeying the gospel heaps coals of fire upon the "believeth nots" who are defined as traitors. You will notice that the GRACE people gnash their teeth when you flash the OBEDIENCE word.

Animal sacrifices were acceptable until after the Jews rejected the message of Abraham's almost sacrifice that GOD PROVIDED. That didn't prevent Solomon from building a HOUSE dominating Moriah when God had promised David a TENT on Mount Zion..

Gen. 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

Those who survive the "death" encounter in water are alive again: their sacrifices are the FRUIT OF THE LIPS Because JESUS has provided ANIMAL sacrifices made up of speakers, singers or instrument players: they are called BEASTS. Any thing or person dedicated to ADORN the Word of God is declared ANATHEMA: they cannot be redeemed and MUST BE BURNED.

Jesus as HOLY SPIRIT thought that Noah was a Prophetic Type of obeying God to ESCAPE the World, Kosmos, Ecumenical or the kingdom of the Devil. Jesus said that the TRUTH had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the world for those OF the World. Jesus though that Dianna should not be blinded.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Jul 8, 2016 10:55 AM

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Re: Noah got INTO the Ark by faith

July 8 2016, 2:07 PM 

Was Tyrannosauras Rex a fatality of the flood, Bill. Anyway, would it sink the ark?

Noah got rid of this one.

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Noah got INTO the Ark by faith

July 8 2016, 3:45 PM 

You should know by now that Noah took fertile eggs and froze them.

However, Dinos eat a lot of stuff and the newly-swept earth simply could not stand such gluttons. I do understand that they have found the last one's foot print followed by a human maybe for his last meal.

Now, cows are too big so the next flood we will take along lots of crickets.

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Ken Sublett
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The Local Church is a School of the Word-only Part A

July 31 2016, 4:35 PM 

A local institution does many great things trusting their own works as the Social Gospel and NON Christian Worship Centers. However, the CORE one-piece pattern from the wilderness onward for the only reason God gives a day of REST from religious rituals (legalism) is to Rest, Read and Rehearse the Word.

That is the only meaning of:

SPEAK that which is written for our LEARING
But, Ode (sing) and Psallo (pluck strings or hair) IN the heart (place) meaning Keep it Silent Simple when God is in His holy Temple as the purified or holy spirit of His Disciples.

The EXTREME DISCIPLESHIP as the old Discipling Dilemma is Purpose Driven for the minister-turned-master and his huge STAFF to destroy the EDUCATION ONLY role of the church and force the LAMBS out trying to drive other people's lambs into the wrong fold.

The Extreme Discipleship is ONLY for those who feel the need to GO and seek lost lambs (lost spirits) by SPEAKING or READING as the only way God's WORD is authorized to be ministered. Any rhetoric, singing or playing PRETENDS that those John Calvin called lazy asses can see visions and hear voices telling you that your godly ancestors simply could not comprehend until THEY got their still-bleeding sheep skin devoid of much Bible knowledge and no ethical foundation which would SEND them out.

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
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July 31 2016, 9:01 PM 

R. L. Dabney a presbyterian was a contemporary of Alexander Campbell. He understood what changed Campbell's approach when he grasped that the Bible is the only resource any one has who claims to be a Christian who walks in the steps of Jesus.

That Restoration has been hated and debated and repudiated by those who feed at the widow's table. They claim that suddenly out of the blue THEY are Postmodern and therefore Post-Biblical and Post-Christianity revealers of truth CONTRARY to the Bible and especially the epistles. THEY are unique in hearing voices and seeing or casting visions (from wicca) which YOU do not have. This is the scam of the ancient prophets who insisted that you support them because in their music-induced madness they claimed that a "god" must be causing the strong delusions. They still say and you still pay because all but a tiny remnant are OF the World and are hostile to being dragged out of your physical body and into a spiritual being.

Is. 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

R. L. Dabney. FROM the days of Enoch, who prophesied (Jude 13), and of Noah, who was a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter ii. 5), to our day God has employed "the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." To us who hold that the Bible, and the Bible alone, is the religion of Protestants," both the warrant for preaching, as a religious ordinance, and the model for its performance, must be given from the word of God. The patriarchs, the prophets, propbably the Aaronic priests and the pious kings, preached to Israel. But the first full description of the nature of the exercise is the oft-cited passage from Nehemiah viii. 1-8, when Ezra and his associates "read in the book of the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading." Here we have the true scriptural idea of the preacher's function: to make the people understand what is in God's word.

He is commanded to GO as a herald and elders as the only Pastor-Teachers are commanded to teach that which has been taught." If you were hasseled for money never commanded or told about all of our programs and our accomplishments, you are NOT in a Church of Christ hobbled as a day of REST and SCHOOL.

skhol-azō , have leisure or spare time, to be at leisure, have nothing to do, Devote oneself to a Master.II. s. apo tinos have rest or respite from a thing, cease from doing. devote oneself to learning: hence,

[linked image]

The Christian minister's commission is in these words: "Preach the word; (herald the word) be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and doctrine." (2 Tim. iv. 2.)

The object of preaching is the salvation of the soul; and that salvation consists in a redeption from the guilt, love and practice of iniquity.

The instrument of this redemption is God's truth, as he has revealed it. "Sanctify them through THEY TRUTH"

The preacher is most explicitly called a herald; that is, the DELIVERER of a message. Now, the herald does not make his message, he merely transmits it.

He has nothing to do with judging its wisdom or fitness; let him simply proclaim it as it is given to him. This was God's command to an ancient preacher: "Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee." (Jonah iii. 2.)

Or, the preacher's office may be illustrated by the work of one who uses a die put into his hands, to form impressions on some plastic substance. The sinful soul is that substance. The word of God is the die; and the divine image of knowledge and true holiness is the impression to be formed. God, who made man's soul, and therefore knows it made the die; and of course he best knew how to make it, to produce the impression he desired.

Now, the workman's business is not to criticize, re-carve, or alter the die which is committed to him, but simply to press it down upon the substance to be shaped. In this view, how plain is it that all preaching must be accurately representative of Bible truth, and in Bible proportions? Else it is not God's work.

The preacher's business is simply to take what he finds in the Scriptures, and as he finds it, and press it down upon the understandings, hearts, and consciences of men. Nothing else is his business as a preacher.

The die is just so sharp and hard, so large and so perfect as God would have it. He judged it was the right die to produce the impression he intends. This is enough for us. Here we have a few obvious truths which none will dispute who are known as evangelical Christians. But if we are not mistaken, they contain the following deductions, by which many things very prevalent in the practice of persons considering themselves evangelical are condemned.

The Progressives Anti-Authority Sectarians love to collect the MASSED MULTITUDES (beasts) and mock Churches of Christ whom they think are shrinking. The Remnant Concept Pattern is an EVER-SHRINKING Little Flock probably to fool the foolish who think they are going to save the world by refusing to be the NARROW ROAD OR PATTERN: few will find it.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

I need to say it again: A Pharisees is a self-authoring hired preacher, singer or instrument players.

A legalists is one who plans, rehearses, presents and gets paid for religious operations: Jesus said the kingdom will not be there.

A sectarian is one who uses the outlawed "laded burden" or "mental excitement" to lift you up to CHOOSE your property to be their own.

A wise person or sophists (speaker, singer, instrument player) is one from whom God hides.

A minister defined as a servant transfigured as a Senior Pastor planning programs to "make the lambs dumb before the slaughter" is the person who has you bound in a cult and most will never get deprogrammed especially if he tells you that a spirit gave him the formula for his KoolAid. The Discipling Dilemma is long ago that the young people think that "friendship evangelism" is sent from heaven. Never confess your sexual thoughts to anyone who feels the need to know: turn him-her in.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Jul 31, 2016 9:08 PM

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Ken Sublett
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The Kairos Church Planting Plot

August 13 2016, 2:24 PM 

The Kairos Church Planting Cult. Jimmy Adcox sponsors the Kairos Church Planting "Ministry". He and Russ Adcox are working with Murfreesboro one of my diverted investments with the "Lourdeee." Kairos is Hermes or the demon son of Zeus from Chronos who were-are the part of the god family of the Greek Anti-Christ. God is the LOGOS and regulative principle and He SPEAKS only through Jesus Christ. A Christian is a Disciple and a church is built upon or EDUCATED by the Prophets and Apostles ONLY. This SECTARIANISM is so clearly defined from Genesis to Revelation

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
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To Shield the Little Flock from the Praise Singers or Ecomiansts

August 25 2016, 10:37 AM 

The VALUE of the Local Ekklesia is to SHIELD the tiny, little flock FROM the Legalistic Praise Teams standing in the PLACE which HAS been filled by Jesus Christ as the ONLY "worship leader." By simple laws: if the Praise Team is there then Jesus is NOT there: He will be OUTSIDE giving REST for the lambs while the goats are jumping inside. The GOSPEL IS: "Rest and LEAR OF ME." His kingdom does not come with religious OBSERVATION.

The praise leader, Incenter as song-starter and / or fire-lighter is the world's OLDEST PROFESSIONAL. History notes that these prophesiers were always emotionally and sexually abnormal. Those who have Infiltrated and Diverted your congregation back to the Babylon Mother of Harlots (daughter congregations) uses "lusted after fruits" (same as in Amos 8) as ANY craftsperson John calls SORCERERS (named after the First Babylon mother of harlots may not CARE but the owners do and flee without looking back.

[linked image]
[linked image]

Those apostate preachers who have turned from being TEACHERS OF THE WORD to the "pastor set over us" is the mark of a people deserving to be destroyed as God abandoned Israel after they fired Him and demanded a King so they could KILL and WORSHIP like the nations or Gentiles.

Robert Tivers in his book 'Folly of Fools' notes:

"Recent work suggests that parasites and, in particular, parasite load may drive religions to split. These splits, in turn, entrain changes in doctrine to justify them, and thus tend to degrade the universal truth value of religion with parochial arguments whose true meaning is usually hidden.

Parasite load is meant as an aggregate measure of the number of parasites and their degree of damage on a local population.

Ideally, parasite load would be measured as something like the degree of overall mortality (or loss in reproduction) due to disease, but it is usually measured as a simple count of the major diseases present and the relative strength of their negative effects."

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Aug 25, 2016 3:14 PM

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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