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Donnie Knows Best

August 3 2017, 9:32 PM 

Ken, what is your favorite Psalm to sing? Donnie says it's ok.

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Donnie are you trying to be me?

August 3 2017, 10:02 PM 

Why do you ask, Rancor? Am I? Should I be?

Maybe you should invite Ken and me and yourself to a "Christian concert" where David-like music is performed. Musical instruments listed in Daniel 3 would be my personal preference -- cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer.

You have an assignment, Rancor. Would you mind doing a YouTube research on any of those O.T. instrument recordings? Let us know.

Who would be a better singer to you: David or Paul?

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Ken Sublett
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Paul Singing?

August 3 2017, 10:25 PM 

Ken, wake up! Donnie has you on mute! Tell us how you really feel about singing. Donnie can talk out both sides of his mouth. Tell us what the "Holenwald Hammer" has to say!

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Paul Singing?

August 3 2017, 11:26 PM 

Singing is fine: at the time me, wife and two daughters (later 3) did our own four-part-fanny and they still remember. We deacons had a singing group and sang at fellership gatherings.

I sang and sang and sang and destroyed my vocal cords. The doctor said surgery would never be satisfactory but NEVER engage in Decibel Poisoning without vocal coaching.

Loud does not mean good. I was about 60 when I discovered that a Christian is a Disciple and straight adults do not SING in order to Teach and Admonish. There are 168 hours a week and I can assure you that only those burden and guilt laden get out of bed to listen to not talented performers or engaging in group singing as verbal goose clapping.

To hallucinate that the masses of people anticipate listening to silly praise ditties and are attracted to pay a huge ticked price is the meaning of "strong delusions.

The ONLY thing that attracts young parents is a good Sunday School program teaching the Bible. They endure the sermon and singing to bring their children. Increasingly the Anti-Bible and Anti-laws of conduct do, as in 1 Corinthins 17 "do more harm than good."

Why would anyone think about replacing the Word with songs and sermons when there is no command, example or remote inference of group singing with or without instruments until after the Reformation. There is one exception: when the Jews rose up against God to PLAY in Instrumental-Trinitarian-Perverted idolatry. God saw that as a sin beyond redemption.

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Praise God

August 4 2017, 10:46 AM 

Donnie, Ken misbehaves in public (ask Johnny Joe).

Just trust the Bible. The Bible says to sing. I'm good with it. happy.gif

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Ken Sublett
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Re: Praise God

August 4 2017, 11:26 AM 

Fine, you have 168 hours a week to do it. PRISON is a good place. I get the liberty not to listen.

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August 5 2017, 7:38 AM 

Thanks Ken. I kinda understand your situation somewhat. I will leave you alone...for a while! happy.gif

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Re: Praise God!

August 2 2017, 12:17 PM 

Ken, it just will not go away.....Praise God!

[linked image]

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Praise God!

August 2 2017, 7:03 PM 

That's the back of your "Worship Leader" doing aerobic and lifting up "HOLY HANDS."

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Praise God!

August 3 2017, 11:03 AM 

The BODY WORSHIP is purpose-driven to PROVE to the faithful owners that WE have made "worship wars" and we are IN YOUR FACE. This is the Machiavelli Principle [Shelly] to drive the enemy into dissociation so that they will not DARE stick their neck out and speak against instruments. Good for us, God sends them strong delusions so that the LOST SPIRITS will gladly let them STEAK the living of widows.

2 Sam 22:40 For thou hast girded me with strength to battle:
.....them that rose up against me hast thou subdued under me.
2 Sam 22:41 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies,
.....that I might destroy them that hate me.
2 Sam 22:42 They looked, but there was none to save;
.....even unto the Lord, but he answered them not.
2 Sam 22:43 Then did I beat them as small as the dust of the earth, [Psallo-Sop]

h7833. shachaq, shaw-khak´; a primitive root; to comminate (by trituration or attrition):—beat, wear.
g5567. PSALLO, psal´-lo; probably strengthened from psao (to rub or touch the surface; compare 5597);
g5597. SOP psocho, pso´-kho; prolongation from the same base as 5567; to triturate, i.e. (by analogy) to rub out (kernels from husks with the fingers or hand): — rub.
g5596. psomion, pso-mee´-on; diminutive from a derivative of the base of 5597; a crumb or morsel (as if rubbed off), i.e. a mouthful: — sop.

.....I did stamp them as the mire of the street,
.....and did spread them abroad.
2 Sam 22:44 Thou also hast delivered me from the strivings of my people,
.....thou hast kept me to be head of the heathen:
.....a people which I knew not shall serve me.
2 Sam 22:45 Strangers shall submit themselves unto me: soon as they hear, they shall be obedient unto me.
.....and they shall be afraid out of their close places.
2 Sam 22:47 The Lord liveth; and blessed be my rock;
.....and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
2 Sam 22:48 It is God that avengeth me,
.....and that bringeth down the people under me.
2 Sam 22:49 And that bringeth me forth from mine enemies:
.....thou also hast lifted me up on high above them that rose up against me:
.....thou hast delivered me from the violent man.
2 Sam 22:50 Therefore I will give thanks unto thee, O Lord, among the heathen,
.....and I will sing praises unto thy name.

h1984. halal, haw-lal´; a primitive root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence, to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively, to celebrate; also to stultify:—(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool(-ish, -ly), glory, give (light), be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, (sing, be worthy of) praise, rage, renowned, shine.

h1966. heylel, hay-lale´; from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:—lucifer.

He-She is called the 'singing and harp-playing-PROSTITUTE.

h2167. zamar, zaw-mar´; a primitive root (perhaps ident. with 2168 through the idea of striking with the fingers); properly, to touch the strings or parts of a musical instrument, i.e. play upon it; to make music, accompanied by the voice; hence to celebrate in song and music:—give praise, sing forth praises, psalms.

2 Sam 22:51 He is the tower of salvation for his king:
.....and sheweth mercy to his anointed,
.....unto David, and to his seed for evermore.

And the LITTLE FLOCK, the WAY that is called a SECT just laughs and laughs and laughs that Phds having reached the PEAK of their INCOMPETENCY will NEVER be able to read the REST OF THE STORY.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Aug 3, 2017 11:42 AM

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DB Cooper

August 2 2017, 10:09 AM 

The person in the video, in the back, wearing a cap, is "DB Cooper". happy.gif

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: DB Cooper

August 2 2017, 7:09 PM 

Is "DB Cooper" related to this one pictured in your initial post?

[linked image]

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Dianna Howell
(Login dianna01)

Seed of an homer

August 4 2017, 3:22 PM 

I found this verse in Isaiah interesting: Isaiah 5:10-13 (KJV)
Yea, ten acres of vineyard shall yield one bath, and the seed of an homer shall yield an ephah.

What is an "homer" ?
What is an "ephah"?

Wasn't Homer a myth writer and he used poetry singing and instruments that were developed into the Greek tragedies?
Isn't an ephah something a priest would wear?

[11] Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them! [12] And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the Lord , neither consider the operation of his hands. [13] Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Seed of an homer

August 4 2017, 6:43 PM 

I am not an expert on measures but apparently they were not getting a very good yield.

An Ephod is part of the priest's garment something like sleeveless blouse but open on both sides.

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Dianna Howell
(Login dianna01)

Related words?

August 4 2017, 6:51 PM 

Are ephah and ephod similar words?

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Related words?

August 5 2017, 4:14 PM 

The Hebrew word "ephah" (איפה) means a particular measure for grain, and "measure" in general. The Bible's ephah in modern terms is about 23 liters, being ten times larger than the omer.[5]

The Book of Exodus records that an omer was equal to one tenth of an "ephah".[6] The Targum Pseudo-Jonathan implies that an omer was the equivalent of the capacity of 43.2 eggs.[7] In dry weight, various rabbinical sources rule that the omer weighed between 1.560 kg. to 1.770 kg., being the quantity of flour required to separate therefrom the dough offering.[8] It corresponds to the bath (Ezekiel 45:11) in liquid measure and was the standard for measuring grain and similar articles since it is classed with balances and weights (Leviticus 19:36 ; Amos 8:5) in the injunctions regarding just dealing in trade. In Zechariah 5:6 - 5:10 it is used for the utensil itself.

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Holy Hands? Sure !

August 6 2017, 11:16 AM 

Should We Lift “Holy Hands” When We Pray?
by Wayne Jackson

“Does 1 Timothy 2:8 mean we should lift our hands upward when going to the Father in prayer? How do we know whether or not this is a tradition of Paul’s time, or something we should practice today?”

The careful Bible student is aware of the fact that there are certain conditions associated with effective prayer. For example:

Prayer should be offered only to deity (Mt. 6:9), never to mere human beings (e.g., Mary or “the saints”).
This mode of communication is one of those spiritual blessings that is a part of the “in Christ” relationship (Eph. 1:3; Jn. 15:7; cf. Rom. 6:3-4; Gal. 3:26-27). It thus is a Christian privilege. There is no New Testament authority for the sinner to pray for salvation.
Prayers should be confidently and persistently offered (Jas. 1:5-8; 1 Thes. 5:17), and in harmony with the revealed will of God (1 Jn. 5:14).

These and other elements are components of acceptable petitions to the Lord.
Physical Posture and Prayer

A specific physical posture has never been a requirement for acceptable prayer.

Prayer can be made standing (1 Sam. 1:26), or kneeling (1 Kgs. 8:54). Sometimes petitions were offered from a prostrate position (1 Kgs. 18:42; Mk. 14:35). One might spread out his hands in prayer (1 Kgs. 8:22; Isa. 1:15) or lift them up (Job. 11:13-14; Psa. 63:4).

But neither the place (public or private), nor posture, was a crucial element of the prayer.

The lifting up of the hands as a gesture in prayer, however, has been a common cultural format in many societies of the past—pagan, Jewish, and Christian. For example, a stone monument with two, uplifted hands (reflecting an act of devotion among the Canaanites) was discovered at the site of ancient Hazor in northern Palestine in 1955.
The Symbolism of the Hand

The hand, as an important organ of human activity, becomes a significant symbol in biblical literature.

The expression “Jehovah’s hand” signifies the Lord’s power (Isa. 59:1; cf. Acts 4:28). “Hands that shed innocent blood” (Prov. 6:17) represent murderous people, etc.

So, similarly, lifting up holy hands (1 Tim. 2:8) is a figure of speech which emphasizes that effective prayer must be accompanied by a consecrated life — a life devoted to the service of God.

The passage doesn’t require the lifting of one’s hands when he or she prays.
Is There Anything Wrong With Lifting Hands in Prayer?

Is there anything intrinsically wrong with holding up one’s hands when in prayer? No, there is not. The lifting of the hands is neither demanded, nor forbidden.

If I might, however, I would like to offer what is strictly my opinion about this issue.

One might give some consideration to the impression he leaves when he dramatically alters his mode of conduct in public prayer. Will others perceive that there could be a change of doctrinal conviction in some regard? Is it not the common perception, for example, that this type of display is often associated with the “Pentecostal” or “charismatic” phenomenon?

Some appear to think that changes of this kind will provide some extra “charge” to their spiritual lives. But spiritual enhancements come from an assimilation of the word of God internally, not as a result of an external alteration of bodily movements.

Might such a demonstration be construed as somewhat ostentatious in our present culture? Think about this. There is nothing inherently sinful in “smiting one’s chest” (cf. Lk. 18:13) when he prays, but that might not be the most expedient thing to do in a public setting.

Again, as noted earlier, there is no sin in falling upon the ground in prayer (Mk. 14:35), but would such be wise in a public setting?

One must remember that perception on the part of others, and the exercise of good judgment, is an important element in Christian conduct.

The spiritual person should take these various factors into consideration in making decisions regarding public postures in prayer.
Scripture References
1 Timothy 2:8; Matthew 6:9; Ephesians 1:3; John 15:7; Romans 6:3-4; Galatians 3:26-27; James 1:5-8; 1 Thessalonians 5:17; 1 John 5:14; 1 Samuel 1:26; 1 Kings 8:54; 1 Kings 18:42; Mark 14:35; 1 Kings 8:22; Isaiah 1:15; Job 11:13-14; Psalm 63:4; Isaiah 59:1; Acts 4:28; Proverbs 6:17; Luke 18:13
Cite this article
Jackson, Wayne.

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Praise God!

August 6 2017, 11:48 AM 

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
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God always leaves us a MARK: I just laugh and laugh and laugh. REJOICE AND BE GLAD

August 6 2017, 1:13 PM 

1Ti 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without WRATH and DOUBTING

Paul is not speaking of an ACT OF PRAYING because Jesus commanded that WE enter into secret places and PRAY FOR OURSELVES.

Defining all Worship Teams with or without instruments.|&la=greek&can=o%29rga%3D|1&prior=kai#lexicon

Orgi-a , iôn, ta, secret rites, secret worship, practised by the initiated, of the rites of the Cabeiri [homosexuals] and Demeter, of Orpheus, of Cybele, most freq. of the rites of Dionysus .2.81, E.Ba.34, al., Theoc.26.13. II. generally, RITES, orgia Mousôn [Rev 18:22] Ar.Ra.356 . Aphroditês [similar to Lucifer or Zoe]. Org-aô I. to be getting ready to bear, growing ripe for something,
“ho karpos pepainetai kai orga” Hdt.4.199
II. of men, like sphrigaô, swell with lust, wax wanton, be rampant, ho ep' aphrodisiois mainomenos . . orgôn Poll.6.188 ; of human beings and animals, to be in heat, desire sexual intercourse, .

Demeter and Proserpine have become the heroines of a mystic drama; and their wanderings, and seizure, and grief, Eleusis celebrates by torchlight processions. I think that the derivation of orgies and mysteries ought to be traced, the former to the WRATH (orge) of Demeter against Zeus, the latter to the nefarious wickedness (mu/soj) relating to Dionysus; but if from Myus of Attica, who Pollodorus says was killed in hunting-no matter, I don't grudge your mysteries the glory of funeral honours.

You may understand mysteria in another way, as mytheria (hunting fables), the letters of the two words being interchanged; for certainly fables of this sort hunt after the most barbarous of the Thracians, the most senseless of the Phrygians, and the superstitious among the Greeks.

Perish, then, the man who was the author of this imposture among men, be he Dardanus, who taught the mysteries of the mother of the gods, or Eetion, who instituted the orgies and mysteries of the Samothracians, or that Phrygian Midas who, having learned the cunning imposture from Odrysus, communicated it to his subjects.

For I will never be persuaded by that Cyprian Islander Cinyras [CATAMITE Phil 3], who dared to bring forth from night to the light of day the lewd orgies of Aphrodité in his eagerness to deify a strumpet of his own country. Others say that Melampus the son of Amythaon imported the festivals of Ceres from Egypt into Greece, celebrating her grief in song. These I would instance as the prime authors of evil, the parents of impious fables and of deadly superstition, who sowed in human life that seed of evil and ruin-the mysteries.

And now, for it is time, I will prove their orgies to be full of imposture and quackery. And if you have been initiated, you will laugh all the more at these fables of yours which have been held in honour. I publish without reserve what has been involved in secrecy, not ashamed to tell what you are not ashamed to worship.

All honour to that king of the Scythians, whoever Anacharsis was,
who shot with an arrow [PSALLO] one of his subjects who imitated among the Scythians
the mystery of the Mother of the gods, as practised by the inhabitants of Cyzicus,
beating a drum and sounding a cymbal strung from his neck like a priest of Cybele, .
condemning him as having become effeminate among the Greeks, and a teacher of the disease of effeminacy to the rest of the Cythians.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Aug 6, 2017 1:15 PM

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: God always leaves us a MARK: I just laugh and laugh and laugh. REJOICE AND BE GLAD

August 6 2017, 1:24 PM 

ONLY the high priest was permitted to turn up the PALMS as Jews and Muslims still do to show that they are in a READING posture.

[linked image]

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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