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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Soft Piano Enhances Worship IS FALSE

October 4 2016, 1:30 AM 

I'm going to try to revive another thread; I think I can get it to work:

Minimal Madness from Musical Mistresses
June 3 2010 at 3:31 PM (Ken Sublett)

 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

Back It Up

October 4 2016, 3:04 PM 

So Donnie, did I say soft piano enhances worship?

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Back It Up

October 5 2016, 12:18 AM 

Well, Dave, yes. Unless you no longer believe that singing is "musical worship." Whether it is "singing" or "music," the keyword is ENHANCES. Whether it's a piano or a guitar, still the keyword you used is ENHANCES.

In one of his posts, Dr. Bill said this: "Since Dave said the piano ENHANCES the voice (singing), then logic says the piano ENHANCES the worship as well."

In addition he said that "since Dave admitted that God doesn't authorize the piano (or any other musical instrument), then Dave is advocating that we ADD another kind of music (IM) to enhance, aid, and accompany our worship...."


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Not Lost But Found: "Soft Piano Enhances"

October 5 2016, 12:25 AM 

Source: WHAT HAPPENED AT MADISON THIS WEEK--The Timeline (Part XI)

Author: Servant (no login) 69.59.78.95
Subject: Re: Instruments Listed in Psalm 150 January 30 2007, 8:38 PM
". . . Have you never heard a piano softly in the background that only enhances the voice? Not overpowering? When a piano is in tune and a musician that knows how to play it, it actually DOES keep better order than the voice alone. A piano keeps the vocalist/group in pitch and in tempo better than vocal only. ..." [emphases mine, d.c.]



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Not Lost But Found: "Soft Piano Enhances"

October 5 2016, 11:33 AM 

Jesus said that worship is IN the spirit a PLACE. I gotta see a soft piano inside the worship misleader's Head.



 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Come On In

October 5 2016, 11:35 PM 

"Have you never heard a piano softly in the background that only enhances the voice?"

So, with your expertise of the English language, am I saying that piano enhances worship???


If you say yes, then, logically, you are a liar. I really could care less what William says.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Re: Not Lost But Found: "Soft Piano Enhances"

October 5 2016, 11:47 PM 

Even funnier is the fact that Donnie has to use Bill to validate him. For the last year Donnie has all but called him Satan, but that is how far he will go to make sure he isn't wrong, even when he is wrong.

happy.gif

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Not Lost But Found: "Soft Piano Enhances"

October 6 2016, 2:35 PM 

I thought Ken was the one who, by frequently using the phrase "the lake of fire," all but called everyone Satan who disagreed with him. Donnie just gets upset when people disagree with him. That's why he resorts to histrionic posts with text in all caps ("shouting"), boldface text, underlining, exaggerated font sizes, multiple font colors, and the like. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Not Lost But Found: "Soft Piano Enhances"

October 6 2016, 2:57 PM 

I got that phrase from hanging out around the smokey pits or watching the Jews HOLOCAUST infants in Jerusalem.

God forces those NOT OF FAITH OR TRUTH to ACT OUT what which defines their punishment. God IS smarter than Jay Guinn, you know.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Just the Facts

October 7 2016, 12:12 AM 

I know this is hard to believe, but God is a lot smarter than Ken Sublett too. Ken, please don't ask me to prove it.

 
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Richard Logan
(no login)
69.12.121.94

IM & Singing

October 16 2016, 6:41 PM 

Donny,
To say that an act of worship is authorized/not authorized by the bible is a bit of a stretch. The church of Christ places a whole lot of emphasis on "authorized worship" and yet the bible is strangely silent about worship services; except for 1 Corinthians 14. Now that gathering or worship service looks nothing like a church of Christ worship service. Speaking in tounges, revelations, prophets, SINGING a hymn..and to do all that decently and in order. The COC looks nothing like the 1st century church.
How about the church of Christ just saying that they like their traditions and don't want those disregarded by new folks that might like to join the assembly. There is surely no biblical reasoning for an "authorized" worship service, as the old church of Christ preaches/teaches about. However, I can read Matthew 25th chapter and it talks about judgement day. I was hungry, you fed me. I was thirsty, you gave me a drink. I was naked, you clothed me. I was a stranger in your land and you took me in.....these folks were saved! Not once did it mention a scriptural worship service, nor any of the other things I've read on this website.
I am a former member of the church of Christ, and a former minister. Through many years of studying the bible I came to the conclusion I believed/taught what was not taught in the bible. Obviously we have to believe and be baptized, on that you'll not get an argument from me. However, all this authorized/not authorized religious teaching is false. I'm not a religious man, by your standards, but I am a Christian. The bible tells us over and over again to love your neighbor as yourself. It does not ever mention an authorized worship service as I was taught to believe. The bible tells us to walk in the light, tells us how we should present ourselves before our fellow man, and how we ought to live our lives. It never ever one time put any emphasis on a soul saving/damning worship service.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: IM & Singing

October 16 2016, 7:06 PM 

If I man butt in: you are correct about a "worship service" which in the Greek context sounds like 'hard work.'
Jesus said that worship was IN SPIRIT as a "place" and Paul said that they worshipped IN THE SPIRIT as opposed to IN THE FLESH. I don't know how so many people piled on to what Jesus taught.

The Campbells tried for one short time to "restore" what they called a "society" which is open to all and should not offend any and is consistent with the only assemblies God called for those not of the Civil-Military-Clergy and He had turned them over to worship the starry host.

The "pattern" was defined in the wilderness: a holy convocation was held on the First and Eighth day of regular festivals. That continued regularly on the SABBATH which does not mean a day of worship but REST. The scattered people assembled to hear the Word read and discussed. That is pretty easy to digest. Their pattern was to gather the community together to obey the commands to READ or SPEAK and as in Romans 14 private opinions or "doubtful disputations" which did not edify or educate could take themselves to their own group.

Thomas Campell defined:
Church (ekklesia) is A School of Christ
Worship is reading and musing the Word.

The Lord's Supper was to show forth that Jesus died to become our Teacher: that should shut down most of the busy work called "worship"

Of the Corinthians mess, in 1 Corinthians 11:17 Paul said "your assemblies do more harm than good." Jesus and others gathered (synagogued) many times and there was nothing beyond teaching the Word.

[linked image]

The liberals impose all of the rituals as the conservatives and then add a half dozen more.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 16, 2016 10:44 PM


 
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Richard Logan
(no login)
12.28.156.130

RE: IM Worship

October 17 2016, 6:00 PM 

I Cor 11: 17 and following, was talking about the Lord's Supper. Some people were eating, others were getting drunk. The Apostle chastised them because not everyone was getting to eat and drink. Because not everyone was getting to partake, he told them that it did more harm than good. This had nothing to do with a worship service, rather an assembly that was partaking in communion. They were missing the whole reason for taking the Lord's Supper.

During my formative years, I was force-fed church of Christ dogma, and even at a young age I disagreed with 99% of what I was taught. My dad was a church of Christ minister; he believed, till the day he died that only members of the church of Christ were getting into heaven. I listened to many different COC preachers while growing up, they were all saying the same things. Authorized worship, how the Baptist and all those other religions were going to hell because they didn't worship correctly. They pulled little verses out of the bible to justify their "LAW", and none of it was true or correct, and is/was taken completely out of context; they missed the whole point of what it means to be a disciple of Christ. The one thing I've learned is this: there is a monumental difference between a religious person and a Christian.

Ken, I've been reading your posts for years, most of the time I agree with you, sometimes I don't. The bible tells us in Col 3:16; "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom' teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." If you read Eph 5:19 it says basically the same thing; it was to edify one another. You might not like the singing, but to say it is against God's law is false. You and Donny might want to check out 1 Cor 14,the whole chapter, where the only worship service ever mentioned in the new testament is located. It really wasn't a worship service, rather more of a meeting format, where EVERY MAN was allowed to speak, no mention of a pastor or pulpit minister, an awful practice placed on us by well meaning, misguided men. Man, it looks so much different than a church of Christ assembly. By the way, the very definition of psalms is plucking/twanging on a stringed instrument.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: RE: IM Worship

October 17 2016, 7:07 PM 

Men such as Clement of Rome and others show that the Corinthian church never made it past the immaturity of everyone wanting to get into the act. Even the later deacons fought and rebelled against the elders and the church went out of business.

The PSAO based words can only be defined by how they are used in the Bible or other texts. One Greek word is translated into dozens of english words in the KJV depending on the context. Psallo has the same root meaninng as SOP.

A psalm has the same meaning as a song:
You can read a song
You can recite a song
You can sing a song
You can sing a song and play an instrument

Paul commanded we understand the Will of the Lord and then SPEAK psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. The same command in Romans 15 uses self-pleasure and both Greek and Latin silence any kind of performance. The singular purpose was to "use one min and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning.

Neither in the Bible or recorded literature is one of two things demanded/

First and in the rest of the Bible it takes three things to sing and play an instrument:

Is. 23:15 And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot.

How does a harlot sing?

Is. 23:16 Take an [1] harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make [2] sweet melody, [1] sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.


If you sing AND play you always name the instrument.

Second: Or, the writers and God understood that if you wanted to command sing AND play you always used compound words.

I believe to prevent problems, the Word or Logos is always defined to exclude any kind of music.

[linked image]

Notice that Psalmos just MEANS

.....psal-mos , ho, A.twitching or twanging with the FINGERS, “psalmoi toxōn” E.Ion173 (lyr.); “toxērei psalmō toxeusas” Id.HF1064 (lyr.).


The Word Psallo includes only twitching with the FINGERS and never with a plecktron or guitar pick: you cannot psallo anything but a string. In the SECOND sense Psalmos.

The secondary use of Psalmos:

II. mostly of musical STRINGS, “pēktidōn psalmois krekon humnon” Telest.5, cf. Diog.Trag.1.9, Aret.CA1.1.


Paul would have written such a phrase to INCLUDE with seperate words: the phrase seems to prove that psalmos by itself does not INCLUDE plucking or singing unless so written. Next, the definition of PLAYING a harp is the word PSALLEIN

Next, Psalmos just means the SOUND but no definition includes a musical melody

2. the sound of the cithara or harp, Pi.Fr.125, cf. Phryn.Trag.11; “psalmos d' alalazei” A.Fr.57.7 (anap.); there were contests in to psallein, Michel898.10(Chios, ii B. C.), 913.6(Teos, ii B. C.).


The next statement does not fit the facts
3. later, song sung to the harp, psalm, LXX 2 Ki.23.1, al., Ep.Eph.5.19; “biblos psalmōn” Ev.Luc.20.42.


David was the sweet PSALMIST

In 2 Kings 2 Kings: egregius psalta Israhe

A Psalmists is
psaltes , ae, m., = psaltēs,
I.a player on the cithara, a musician, minstrel, Quint. 1, 10, 18; Mart. Cap. 9, § 924; Sid. Ep. 8, 9; Inscr. Grut. 331, 2; Vulg. 2 Reg. 23, 1.


If God wanted anyone to play the GUITAR He would have used the word PSALTES .

The other reference does not say anything about playing an instrument:

In Luke 20:[42] David himself says in the book of Psalms, 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand,





 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: QUEST

October 7 2016, 9:15 AM 

I know: I have been telling you that so you can be converted and learn how to CUT-N-PASTE.

Jay Guin Uses the Old Testament, Galatians, compares NOT using instruments to the ONE CUPPERS and many other hateful attacks to prove that ALL of the direct OUTLAWING anything for the masculine tribe but SPEAK or READ. Without ANYTHING from me, John etal proves that those who claim a spirit to justify sowing of discord and offend most of the owners and chase them out of their own "synagogue" do NOT have A holy spirit and cannot SPEAK the Word as commanded for ALL assemblies. They know it and are forced to compose their own sermons to cast even Jesus as the only TEACHER out of their neo-pagan and prophesied Babylonianism to which God abandoned their fitful proof texting.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Instrumental.Music.Old.Testament.html

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 7, 2016 9:20 AM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: QUEST

October 7 2016, 9:37 AM 

The Effeminate Worship leader (ditto preachers)

http://sounddoxology.blogspot.com/2010/04/effeminate-worship-leader.html

Metrosexual is a neologism derived from metropolitan and heterosexual coined in 1994 describing a man (especially one living in a post-industrial, capitalist culture) who displays behavior stereotypically associated with homosexual men (such as a strong concern for his appearance), although he is not homosexual. Debate surrounds the term's use as a theoretical signifier of sex deconstruction and its associations with consumerism.

Post Industrial is also POSTMODERN. The claim of THEOLOGIANS as ANTI-SCRIPTURE claims to be postmodern and even post-Christendom. That is why the

The Jews whose "god" or Messiah history notes was hoped to be Dionysus: they PIPED hoping that if their messiah, Jesus would submit to "initiation into the wineskins gay priestood" and would sing or lament and DANCE

You will notice that they cannot follow the pattern of Jesus: He stood up behind the podium, read his text FROM SCRIPTURE, declared the prophecy fulfilled and decently and in order SAT DOWN which allowed any need for clarification. They dress in stunning outfits and prance around on the stage and do their play upon THEIR stage where no one can BUY or SELL who does not conform to the gagging persona which makes one run for the podium.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 7, 2016 12:34 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

More About Sin and Nil About Jesus

October 9 2016, 7:43 PM 

Your problem is that you are more concerned about what another man is doing wrong, rather than telling the story of Jesus and His Salvation for all those who will decide to follow him. Donnie is no different.

YOU....have anger issues from many many moons ago. Don't take them to the grave.
Now, we are even. Psyched ya.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: More About Sin and Nil About Jesus

October 9 2016, 8:35 PM 

if that MAN wants to act out RAPING me with the universal mark against religious musicians, then I GRANT me the power, as did Jesus, to refuse to bow down when the Dionysus or wineskiners want to do to him.

I ALWAYS teach the gospel which is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM while your pals teach the "gospel of Just Jesus" so they can use the RACA words against the historic Church of Christ (the Rock) which in one form began in the wilderness AFTER the instrumental-trinitarian-perverted idolatry at Mount Sinai.

So, close to being 86 I GRANT myself the right also included in the first amendment to decide WHAT I teach. Is that okey dokey with you?? Huh?

Your friends are ANTI CHRIST because they determine His teachings MODERN while they hear A spirit tell them what God MIGHT have inspired if He had a degree from Anti Christ University.

You should't worry about me. Worry about that debate: do you want a jokester and probably immoral or do you want a traitor who dresses much to BUTCH for me.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Re: QUEST

October 9 2016, 7:46 PM 

I thought I was the one who taught YOU how to cut-n-paste....

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: QUEST

October 9 2016, 8:41 PM 

Nope! I learned about paste about 80 years ago by mixing flour and water and simmering it for a spell.

I never invent anything I post while the progressives fleecing the widows ALWAYS self-author their songs and sermons. That is the same authority or AUTHENTIA Paul outlawed for the women while the men is his letters rarely sang, clapped, played instruments, sniffed poppy seed or "gas" and spoke in tongues: that SPEAK word includes playing instruments. I cut and pasted the word KOMA to mean "induced by musical instruments." That's why all musical terms and names of instruments parce to enchantment or SORCERY. That is why the will be CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

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Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

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The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

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Here is the list of players;

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10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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