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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: The Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20)

October 9 2016, 4:23 PM 

I don't have much time right now, but briefly, Bill,

(1) There is nothing wrong with those scriptures. They're perfect. God's Word is able to rebut all your acquired beliefs against:

----------- The truth that there is only one true God the Father (several references)
----------- The truth that there is only one begotten Son of God the Father ((countless ref.)

(2) In support of the man-made, Catholic-and-pagan-originated Trinity Creed, you're essentially saying that William Crump, Jr., the son of William Crump, Sr., are one and the same.

(3) In support of the same Creed, you're attempting to justify such creed by looking for a "what is not stated" in the Scripture. Trust God's truth that there is ONLY ONE true God the Father and that Jesus is His only Son; that it was God the Father who made Jesus BOTH Lord and Christ.

(4) Carefully examine YOUR belief that the Father is Jesus Christ himself; that the Father sent Himself as the Messiah; that it was the Father who was the crucified Jesus; that God the Father DIED and was resurrected by God the Father.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: The Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20)

October 9 2016, 4:58 PM 

Bill: Jesus says, "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30). Jesus says that He and God are one and the same.

I have posted the facts on unum before so I think that maybe as with all LU graduates there is a READING problem.

What you are saying is that "Jesus is low down stupid" and that is blasphemy. Even Simple Simon as the slow one in the slow group would not have been so stupid.

Before beginnig school Jesus WOULD have said IF He was very bright, I am God my father."

Tertullian was the second scholar to define the TRIAS concept as the Christian Antithesis of the always-pagan triads.

http://www.piney.com/Tertullian.Praxeas.html

The "scholars" say that God was one like adam and eve was one. When you add AND or KAI that means that Eve is another or different from Adam. Adam and Eve were UNUM or joined together as man and wife. When you use the word "joined" you EXCLUDED the idea that Adam IS Eve. Adam and Eve were UNUS: 2. Of that which is common to several persons or things, one and the same. , in one and the same place, at the same time, in company, together, Esp., uno ore, with one voice, all together, unanimously: “

It will therefore follow, that by Him who is invisible we must understand the Father in the fullness of His majesty,
while we recognise the Son as visible by reason of the dispensation of His derived existence;


The Sun and the Beam are one but different. You can never say that the ray that strikes your eyes IS the SUN.

Then, again, concerning His sheep, and (the assurance) that no man should pluck them out of His hand,

He says, "My Father, which gave them to me, is greater than all;" adding immediately, "I am and my Father are one. "

Here, then, they take their stand, too infatuated, nay, too blind , to see in the first place that there is in this passage an

intimation of Two Beings -- "I and my Father;"
then that there is a plural predicate, " are ," inapplicable to one person only;

and lastly, that (the predicate terminates in an abstract, not a personal noun) -- "we are one THING "
Unum, not "one person" Unus .

For if He had said "one Person," He might have rendered some assistance to their opinion. Unus, no doubt, indicates the singular number; but (here we have a case where) "Two" are still the subject in the masculine gender.

He accordingly says Unum, a neuter term, which does not imply singularity of number, but unity of essence, likeness, conjunction, affection on the Father's part, who loves the Son, and submission on the Son's, who obeys the Father's will. When He says, "I and my Father are one" in essence -- Unum -- He shows that there are Two, whom He puts on an equality and unites in one. He therefore adds to this very statement, that He "had showed them many works from the Father," for none of which did He deserve to be stoned. And to prevent their thinking Him deserving of this fate, as if He had claimed to be considered as God Himself, that is, the Father, by having said, "I and my Father are One," representing Himself as the Father's divine Son, and not as God Himself, He says, "If it is written in your law, I said, You are gods; and if the Scripture cannot be broken, say you of Him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, that He blasphemes, because He said, I am the Son of God?


"ARE" excludes THE SAME PERSON, but the same THING. The context proves that Jesus is teaching what the father taught and the Jews cannot reject the MAN Jesus without rejecting God the singluar Amighty father of all of His LOST SHEEP. SATAN is the father of those OF this World as Cain is the FATHER of all religious musicians seeking something to steal.

H.Leo Boles a bit before your time is the FATHER of a UNIQUE statement of the trinity of Three, separated, centers of consciousness which demands that each person have their OWN trinity of thought, breath (spirit) and word. That is how Benny Hinn teaches many, many gods no less the mark of Antichrist Whom John identifies as Fathe-Son. John says that the name of the promised Holy Spirit Comforter is Jesus Christ the Righteous. Jesus lives as HOLY SPIRIT and is still called to Paul Jesus of Nazareth. The NAME is never THE holy spirit but Jesus as holy or wholly spirit in His new form.

Preachers claim that THE HOLY SPIRIT enables the father to speak to Jesus and THEM. That is blasphemy because it says that God is impotent without other god persons.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 10, 2016 9:41 AM


 
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Scripture
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: The Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20)

January 6 2017, 1:20 PM 

It's good that Acts 8:26-40 is recorded for us.

After hearing about Jesus, the question was asked "What doth hinder me from being baptized?"

Some witnesses add in verse 37: "If you wholeheartedly believe, it is permitted." He replied, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

The text is sufficient. We are saved on the basis of our faith, not on our knowledge.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: The Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20)

October 9 2016, 8:45 PM 

Bill recorded by Tertullian and all "trinitarians> Well, but "with God nothing is impossible." True enough; who can be ignorant of it? Who also can be unaware that "the things which are impossible with men are possible with God?" The foolish things also of the world has God chosen to confound the things which are wise." We have read it all.

Therefore, they argue, it was not difficult for God to make Himself both a Father and a Son, contrary to the condition of things among men. For a barren woman to have a child against nature was no difficulty with God; nor was it for a virgin to conceive.

Of course nothing is "too hard for the Lord."
.....But if we choose to apply this principle so extravagantly and harshly
.....in our capricious imaginations,
.....we may then make out God to have done anything we please,
.....on the ground that it was not impossible for Him to do it.
We must not, however, because He is able to do all things suppose that He has actually done what He has not done. But we must inquire whether He has really done it.

God could, if He had liked, have furnished man with wings to fly with, just as He gave wings to kites.
.....We must not, however, run to the conclusion
.....that He did this because He was able to do it.

He MIGHT also have extinguished Praxeas and all other heretics at once;
it does not follow, however, that He did, simply because He was able.
.....For it was necessary that there should be both kites and heretics;
.....it was necessary also that the Father should be crucified.


If you say that the Father WAS the Son as Bill and all of the LUers claim, then GOD Himself was crucified. Yet, Jesus asked a PROPHESIED question, why have YOU forsaken ME. If God forsook Jesus then God was NOT crucified. Jesus was quoting Psalm 22 which prophesied that the gender confused were attacking Him BUT He would not be defeated.

http://www.piney.com/Psalm-Twenty-Two.html

For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. Psalm 22:16

Keleb (h3611) keh'leb; from an unused root mean. to yelp, or else to attack; a dog; hence (by euphemism) a male prostitute: - dog.

In one sense there will be something difficult even for God -- namely, that which He has not done -- -not because He could not, but because He would not, do it.

For with God, to be willing is to be able,
.....and to be unwilling is to be unable;
.....all that He has willed,


1. It is IMPOSSIBLE for God to LIE because God is TRUTH. If God is TRUTH then to Lie would make God a Liar.

2. God said that He alone as "I" is the Father and Jesus is His Son. As mediator the MAN Jesus is the only ONE.

3. Bill says that God COULD be the Son and the Son could be the father.

4. Bill and all trinitarians say that God could be and is a LIAR.

5. Despising the Word is defined as BLASPHEMY.

6. Only recently after H. Leo Boles and the Gospel Advocate no one in the Churches of Christ were trinitarians including the Campbells and Stone. That began at FHU in 1938 so that maybe half of those at the "preacher" level have fallen into apostasy because it was required to get a degree and a job with churches ALSO using the H. Leo Boles and GA Bible Class Material.

7. Probably because He got into trouble at LU John Mark Hicks credits Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly with inventing a new form of TRITHEISM which is polytheism. He has since written trying to prove that Alexander Campbell was a closet trinitarian. As usual, "scholars" take a quote out of context which AC used to DEBUNK the trinity.

however, He has both been able to accomplish, and has displayed His ability. Since, therefore, if God had wished to make Himself a Son to Himself, He had it in His power to do so; and since, if He had it in His power, He effected His purpose, you will then make good your proof of His power and His will (to do even this) when you shall have proved to us that He actually did it.


The modern "scholars" such as Lipscomb who confess to stop being a Bible college and have become a school of Theology" are not educated enough to know-by God's Driven Purpose that you cannot STUDY God and theology like the musical worship teams is the study of Apollon-Abaddon.

Strong Delusions as the PROPHESIED way to identify those OF THE WORLD VIEW for whom Jesus refuses even to pray.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 10, 2016 12:11 AM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

AUTHOR Theophilus of the TRIAS as ANTI pagan PERSONS

October 10 2016, 10:02 AM 

I have a large stack of books from the "brotherhood" defending what they have invented (self-will) as trinity. Each preacher who joins the profession comes away with a list of things the GODHEAD does without grasping that God does not have three heads. God is the head or source of DIVINE NATURE available to true disciples when connected to the VINE. Even if you get all of the advanced "degrees" based on their books and sermons their authority is not Jesus nor Scripture but a list of passages out of context.

There is no Thought Leader who has--based on their lifted content--read any of the historic documents trying to define the ONE GOD THE FATHER and the DERIVED everything else.

For instance if you say that Jesus WAS the Word or Logos as what God IS and not WHO HE is, Logos is defined as The Regulative Principle or Governing principle. Jesus is God's visibl-audible REGULATIVE principle and NOT the GOD Who Governs.

The first to introduce the Biblical concept as the ANTITHESIS of the always-pagan "Family of God" goes round and round trying to instill what any reader of Scripture can grasp. Looking for sermon outlines is proof that a person is unfit to be the REPEATER of the word or Logos. Why do I know that? Jesus define the identifying MARK visible to all: if they SPOKE the Word without ENHANCING God's work they would be hated and despised and probably very skinny.

http://www.piney.com/HsTheopTrinity.html

[linked image]

 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

We Do Not Have to Convince Men of the Obvious

October 10 2016, 10:44 AM 

Ken said "If you say that the Father WAS the Son as Bill and all of the LUers claim, then GOD Himself was crucified. Yet, Jesus asked a PROPHESIED question, why have YOU forsaken ME. If God forsook Jesus then God was NOT crucified. Jesus was quoting Psalm 22 which prophesied that the gender confused were attacking Him BUT He would not be defeated."


Now you are on to it!!!

When Christ died, God allowed His Son to take on the sins of the world. Why do you think that he made the earthquakes happen, and the temple veil was torn in pieces? He felt the death of Jesus, because Jesus, being the Word in the beginning, and thus being with God always, as John 1:1 states definitely and without error, was/is God in human form. God MADE Jesus to be His Son. God MAKES everything. Ken, you can't fathom that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was the Logos, the Word, equal with God (John 1:1), and separate yet the same. The Son of God iS GOD.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

That is YOUR bad.

You like opinions Ken, so here is one for you. Couldn't find the author.

"Also, Christ was not simply a personification of God’s revelation as the Jews thought, but was indeed God’s perfect revelation of Himself in the flesh, so much so that John would record Jesus’ own words to Philip: "Jesus said unto Him, 'Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, "Show us the Father"?'" (John 14:9).

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: We Do Not Have to Convince Men of the Obvious

October 10 2016, 1:24 PM 

"Also, Christ was not simply a personification of God’s revelation as the Jews thought, but was indeed God’s perfect revelation of Himself in the flesh, so much so that John would record Jesus’ own words to Philip: "Jesus said unto Him, 'Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, "Show us the Father"?'" (John 14:9).

No one said that Jesus was A PERSONIFICATION of God: if he was god PERSONIFIED He would be GOD WHO FILLS THE UNIVERSE inside of the body which LOOKED like Jesus but was not.

Jesus was the IMAGE of the ALWAYS-PAGAN triad of the pagans. The parable to hide form those OF the world is that God is IMAGED FORTH as a SINGULAR. Historic trinitarians would say that Jesus is the visible-adible of God. The ABSOLUTE including the Campbells and other readers is.

God has thought and wisdom WITHING Him without flesh and blood.
God has His own BREATH where Ruwah-Pneuma means WIND.
When God thinks and breathes He SPEAKS throught His double-edged swords or lips.

We are in the image of God and THIS PERSON is not triplets.
We Think
We breath
We articulate

Out thought is not ourselves.
Our breath is not our selves
Our Words are not ourselves.
We are Three-in-one.

God didn't have sex with Eve and historic trinitarians and the campbells say with Jesus that our WORDS are our SONS. You simply cannot climb out of yourself to get a glimps that God is never defined

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Re: We Do Not Have to Convince Men of the Obvious

October 10 2016, 9:54 PM 

That's me all over....no climbing/fear of heights. You got me there.

 
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Rancor
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Faithsite

October 12 2016, 5:13 AM 


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Faithsite

October 12 2016, 11:01 AM 

Good link: WE were just quoting Scripture back then but there was so many RACA words and the FAITHLESS SIIGHT could not tolerate the fire and just shut it down.

Faithsite and GCM has a CONTRACT: anyone who denies the trinity is an antichrist and will not be tolerated. As usual and contrary to the LU which was swiped from DLC has declared themselves as ANTICHRISTS by John's Definition and the fact that since the feminists took over by refuting the Spirit OF Christ in the prophets and by the CENI by Jesus to teach what HE commanded to be taught and observed. Furthermore, people like Jimmy Wren who went to preacher's school he-they get violent when you say with Isiah, Jeremiah, Stephen etal that God DID NOT command king, kingdom, temple, slaughter of innocent animals, the HOLOCAUST of infants and goats as the rational for loud noise never called MUSIC. As far as I know only Burton Coffman, all of the Bible and all historic scholars agree with the Spirit OF Christ

I was doing pretty well on Faith Centered Magazine until old Jimmy Wren whose training missed all of the Reading by Defining words went ballistic and pugalistic when I kept posting TEXT and word definitions in RESPONSE to the equal-but-opposite PROMOTING of instrumental music. You would never know how brutal a once-preacher can be in e-mail.

Old "Servant" was pretty nasty back then did you notice?

All of that material is still out there and I still get referenced when I do a search

Why don't you start a faithsite (faithSlight) thread?


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 12, 2016 12:04 PM


 
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Stan
(no login)
68.53.71.114

Confused

October 14 2016, 11:29 PM 

I am not confused about how my original post about The Great Commission digressed so quickly. However, how is Ken talking about there only being God the Father and Jesus the Son, when in The Great Commission recorded in Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus references baptizing disciples "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" - does He not?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Confused

October 15 2016, 12:11 AM 

Threads always get sidetracked!!

Name is singular: Father, Son and Spirit are not names. All authority is vested in the NAME of Jesus. Peter heard Jesus and commanded:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the [A] Holy Ghost.


A holy spirit (ours) is the same as A good conscience or consciousness in 1 Peter 3:21. Alexander Campbell and Walter Scott understood that it was OUR spirit which was UNholy and after baptism we have A holy spirit.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 4:18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.

Col. 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord [Kurios] Jesus, giving thanks to God [Theos] and the Father by him.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins,calling on the name of the Lord.


It does not say NAMES but NAME: baptizing in the three names and leaving out the name JESUS does not appear in the Bible or early history before the trinitarian confusion. Then, logically, they baptized or sprinkled three times.

The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus is the FORM or TUPOS. In baptism we obey a FORM or ANTI-TUPOS of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. So, it is also logical that we are baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ.

I am not aware that anyone ever pronounced a "formula" over the candidate so the requirement is that we "believe that Jesus is the SON of the living GOD."

Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and HE baptized HIM.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 15, 2016 12:14 AM


 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Confused

October 15 2016, 1:02 AM 

Since, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not names, the phrase "in the name of" obviously means "by the authority of," just as the phrase "in the name of the law" that police officers use means "by the authority of the law." Thus, we are to be baptized in the name of (that is, by the authority of) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Donnie and Ken believe that Father and Son are two separate heavenly entities and that the Holy Spirit is not a separate entity but is the Spirit of God (and of Jesus too, I suppose). Thus, although they are loathe to admit it, Donnie and Ken believe in a so-called "Binity." On the other hand, Trinitarians believe that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate heavenly entities or a "Trinity." Thus, the only difference between Binitarians (Binity) and Trinitarians (Trinity) is the number of different entities in which they believe.

I believe that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all manifestations of One God. So there are certainly different interpretations of how the Godhead is arranged. The most important thing to consider is not how the Godhead is arranged (three in one or one in three, etc.) but to believe in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that they exist, that they are.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Scripture Is Not Confusing; Trinitarians Are Confused

October 15 2016, 11:33 AM 

Neither "Binity" nor "Trinity."

Let the Scripture explain:

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (I Corinthians 8:6, KJV)

One God the Father, Bill. That is not "Binity."

One Son of God Jesus Christ, Bill. That is not "Binity."

The HOLY (adjective) spirit (improper noun) OF (preposition: belonging to) God is not a person, Bill.

Just so this post is not too long for you to ignore, the salutations in the epistles from Romans to Jude mention: (1) God the Father AND (2) His Son Jesus Christ -- proving that God's spirit did NOT GREET churches and individual Christians. Here are a few of many passages:

Gal.1 [1] ... but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead....

Eph.6 [23] Peace ... from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Thes.1 [1] ... in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace....

There are numerous passages with similar salutations.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Scripture Is Not Confusing; Trinitarians Are Confused

October 15 2016, 11:51 AM 

Since Donnie and Ken believe that Jesus is not God, but that God and Jesus are two separate, distinct heavenly entities (and that the Holy Spirit is not a separate entity), then they obviously believe in a "Binity." They have the right to believe in a Binity, no matter how much they deny it on the surface. Of course, we know better. happy.gif

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Scripture Is Not Confusing; Trinitarians Are Confused

October 15 2016, 12:41 PM 

Bill,

I don't know how else can the Scripture explain it to you that "there is only ONE God the Father" -- that certainly excludes "the Son of God" and other gods. One God, Bill. That is not "Binity."

I just quoted a few of many passages. Simple and self-explanatory! Even those you reject.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

No Confusion

October 15 2016, 5:36 PM 

Unlike some, who are all too eager to consign to hell all who believe that the Godhead is arranged this way or that way, I will not fault those who believe the Godhead consists of two distinct beings, God and Jesus; that is, the Binity dogma. Nor will I fault those who believe the Godhead consists of three distinct beings, God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit; that is, the Trinity dogma.

Of course, Matt. 1:23 gives us a clue by mentioning Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Does this mean they are three beings in one entity or one being in three entities, or some other combination? The answer depends on people's different interpretations of the Scriptures.

Regardless of those different interpretations, we must ask ourselves the following:

1. Do the Scriptures condemn believing in Father and Son as two separate beings with the Holy Spirit residing in both? NO

2. Do the Scriptures condemn believing in Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit as three separate beings? NO

3. Do the Scriptures condemn believing in Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit who are not separate but are three manifestations of the same One God? NO

4. In other words, as long as we believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, do the Scriptures condemn our perceptions about how they are arranged or grouped in the Godhead? NO.

Therefore, go in peace.


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: No Confusion

October 15 2016, 6:42 PM 

Bill,

I'm just telling you (again and again) what the Scripture says that "there is only one true God the Father." That is NEITHER "binity" NOR "trinity." Why don't you come up with a word for "ONE GOD"? Perhaps "MONO-ity"? You keep putting words in my mouth with your "binity" bit. The Scripture does not teach two persons in one God. It does not teach three persons in one God.

You come up with the "does not condemn" argument all the time. It doesn't work.

Take God as His word, Bill. It is about time. I strongly believe that God means what He says: God the Father is the only one true and living God.

1. God the Father -- the only truth the Bible teaches; but it's not 1/3 of God.
2. God the Son -- no direct statement; no implication, either -- NOT in Scripture
3. God the Holy Spirit -- God's mind, power, breath is not another God person -- NOT in Scripture.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: No Confusion

October 15 2016, 7:49 PM 

Donnie, since Paul tells us to work out our own salvation "with fear and trembling" (Phil 2:12), then it would behoove us all, including you, to do just that. You work out your own salvation by believing that God and Jesus are two separate, heavenly beings with the Holy Spirit within both; I will work out my own salvation by believing that the One God is able to manifest Himself as Father, as Son, and as the Holy Spirit when and where He desires.

Each person is responsible for his own salvation as s/he interprets the Scriptures. You be responsible for your salvation; I'll be responsible for my salvation; and let all others be responsible for their own salvation. In other words, live and let live.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: No Confusion

October 15 2016, 8:25 PM 

One other thing, Donnie. Regardless of how you choose to perceive the arrangement or grouping of the Godhead, if you believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit -- that they are real and exist -- then you'll be doing OK.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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