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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: No Confusion

October 15 2016, 9:41 PM 


Of course, needless to say, one works out his own salvation. That's not the topic of discussion.

You're simply reciting the Trinity Creed over and over again. And using the creed to defend the creed.

The truth is rather simple:

1. God the Father is the only one true and living God. The scriptures reveal to us in Numbers 23:19 -- "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man...." But man has the tendency/urge to change that truth by making God into what He is not!!! Job 9 asserts: "[2] I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? ... [32] For he is not a man, as I am...."

2. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God the Father. (There are some 50 references to "the Son of God"; some 80 references to "the Son of man.") Let's not insult God by referring to Him as "the Son of man" when someone believes that the Son and the Father may be referred to interchangeably.

There is no "trinity" concept or perception in the Scripture.

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: No Confusion

October 15 2016, 9:50 PM 


There is a colossal difference between truth and perception.

It is the man-made Trinity Creed that has an arrangement. The Trinity doctrine has the three-Gods-in-one or one-God-in-three ARRANGED or ordered as follows:

1. Person No. 1 -- God the Father
2. Person No. 2 -- God the Son
3. Person No. 3 -- God the Holy Spirit

How did they arrive at God's spirit as God ... as a "person" ... and ranked number 3?

The truth is that there is only one true and living God -- the Father.


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(no login)

Re: No Confusion

October 15 2016, 10:29 PM 

Donnie, people perceive something as truth according to their interpretations of the Scriptures. You perceive as truth that Father and Son are two separate, distinct entities. You believe you are right. I perceive as truth that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are not at all separate but are manifestations of One God. I believe I am right. It's all a matter of our different interpretations.

Something else you should consider. Before you minutely examine the beliefs of others with a microscope to uncover various and sundry tiny cracks that you brand as "error," you should first examine your own beliefs (if you are able) with a wide-angle lens and cement up any glaring holes that you find therein. Jesus used a similar illustration with the mote and beam in Matt. 7:3-5.

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: No Confusion

October 15 2016, 11:36 PM 

That's common knowledge -- "everyone has his own interpretation." To you ... the discussion should stop? Well, that could be an option for you. But continuing to discuss by using the Scripture should be encouraged.

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(no login)

Re: No Confusion

October 16 2016, 12:39 AM 

Apparently engaging in endless, futile arguments is a real turn-on for some people who have nothing better to do with their wasted, dreary lives. But, as they say, different strokes for different folks. happy.gif

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Strong Delusions and Lying Wonders

October 16 2016, 9:24 AM 

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God: If you refute Jesus and all of Scripture that is not to BELIEVE but to hallucinate.

[linked image]

2Th. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th. 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th. 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th. 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th. 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th. 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th. 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th. 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th. 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th. 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Scripture Is Not Confusing; Trinitarians Are Confused

October 15 2016, 12:46 PM 

Bill:Since Donnie and Ken believe that Jesus is not God, but that God and Jesus are two separate, distinct heavenly entities (and that the Holy Spirit is not a separate entity), then they obviously believe in a "Binity." They have the right to believe in a Binity, no matter how much they deny it on the surface. Of course, we know better.

Nope: Ken doesn't get the authority to "believe" unless it shows up in the text:

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God,
.....and one mediator between God and men,
.....the MAN Christ Jesus;

Don't let it bother you that you nor most later-day theologians cannot grasp that verse.

There is UNUS one, a single God.
There is UNUS one Mediator
He is the MAN Homo a human opposite to a woman
God does not have flesh and blood
Jesus has flesh and blood.
The prophecy and demand was that a MAN and a BROTHER confront the Devil and defeat him.
Jesus was crucified: God cannot be crucified.
Jesus called God His Father so why insult His inspiring Spirit or BREATH only to the Apostles and NOT to any man if he prays for 400 days.

Eph. 4:4 There is one [unum] body, and one [unus] Spirit,
.....even as ye are called in one [uno] hope of your calling;
Eph. 4:5 One Lord [unus Kurios], one faith, one baptism,
Eph. 4:6 One [unus Theos] God and Father of all,
.....who is above ALL, and through all, and in you all.

God [Theos] the Father is above ALL including the MAN Jesus as Lord [Kurios]
Jesus was not eternally Lord: God made him TO BE both Lord and Christ neither of which are deity words.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one

My Father who is GREATER than I are UNITED to prevent the Jews from pitting Jesus against God.

My father and I are UNUM all together, unanimously, to a man, without exception: into one, to one place, together: Of that which is common to several persons or things, one and the same. “unius modi,” id. Univ. 7.—Esp., uno ore, with one voice, all together, unanimously: in one and the same place, at the same time, in company, together: at the same time, along with him

The Father is the ONE GOD
The Son is ONE MAN
Father breathes (spirit) the ONLY available information and NO MAN can hear Him. NO MAN.
The Son Jesus of Nazareth articulates the invisible breath through His double-edged sword or lips.
Only the Little Flock, The WAY that is called the SECT, poor and powerless can hear or read the message "left for OUR memory."
Jesus as Holy Spirit is still King and sole TEACHER over His little flock.

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Confused

October 15 2016, 12:34 PM 

Stan, know that we welcome you to this discussion forum and your participation.

There are excellent documented materials out there regarding the mention of "in the name of Father, Son, Holy Spirit" [mentioned only once in the entire Bible] versus the mention of "in the name of Jesus Christ" in NUMEROUS passages from the New Testament.

We must take into consideration also the manuscripts (original or not or non-existent at the time) and timing, such as what Eusebius (c. 260—c. 340) quoted in reference to "in the name of"; the Council of Nicea and the emperor Constantine in the 4th century; etc.

Since your thread is about Matthew 28:18-20, I find it appropriate and not a diversion to discuss "in the name of" in baptism. But let's all keep in mind that there are numerous passages that specifically mention "in the name of Jesus Christ." There are, really!!! That's not to say that Matt. 28 is wrong, but there's no evidence in the passage to prove the man-concocted Trinity Creed.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Confused

October 15 2016, 12:54 PM 

And many able scholars say that the expression "father, son and Spirit" is the only even close to a hint that God is triplets.

If you GO into all the world and command to teach and observe what Jesus commanded to be taught it isn't fair to collect other passages to get Him to say that he was Lord-God. It may minimize the knowledge of the Bible recorders not to define the very modern tritheism maybe invented out of LU.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Confused

October 15 2016, 4:20 PM 

It is true: the Great Commission may have many institutions chasing their tails if they don't grasp that ALL authority vested in pagan religions of triads or families of triads, I am not sure that they need to be in the ministry. SPIRIT is opposite of FLESH or BODY. Spirit is never in Scripture a PERSON: Spirit is the mind, heart or mental disposition OF God or mankind.

We accept that Father is generally the Jehovah Who is also Lord of people or places. We have shown that He is GOD in contrast to MAN.

The Son who is the IMAGE or forma of the Father is called a Prophet, Priest and King: His name is Jesus.

There is no "THE" so lets say: Holy Spirit does not have a name. Holy means "wholly" Spirit without flesh and blood (says Jesus). Spirit is not the name of a person: it literally means only WIND and used figuratively of the BREATH of God. We know about our breath and that is supposed to prevent us from calling our breath another person. In fact, sitting behind some smoking brother or sister singers makes you think otherwise.

"Often at such an hour as this,
.....when the BODY has given up the struggle,
.....its salvation is the SPIRIT,
.....which is ready to fight on in the conscience that it is innocent.

"On the other hand, he whose conscience is guilty has worse enemy than that conscience;
.....for his SPIRIT fails him which his BODY is still unwearied,
.....because it feels that what is approaching him the punishment of his iniquities.
.....But it is with no such guilty conscience that I come before you. (Antiphon On the murder or Herodes 5.93)

> For God is my witness, whom I serve with MY spirit in the gospel of his Son,
.....that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; Rom 1:9
> But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should
.....serve in newness OF spirit,
.....and not (serve) in the oldness of the letter. Rom 7:6

In the Greek literature "letter" is what is written down on paper. "Spirit" is understanding the meaning. Spirit is contrasted to LAW neither of which are "persons."

> O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the BODY of this death? Romans 7:24
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then
.....with the MIND I myself serve the law of God;
.....but with the FLESH the law of sin. Romans 7:25

> THERE is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
.....who walk not after the FLESH,
.....but (walk) after the SPIRIT. Romans 8:1
For the law of the Spirit OF life in Christ Jesus
.....hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

The Promise after OUR unholy spirit is purged by God will become A holy spirit so that we can DETECT the Word. Anyone who performs the ACT of reading a part of a verse and the ACT of making up their own words are NOT part of the kingdom of God which does not come with OBSERVATION meaning religious observations. Worship is IN our spirit which is a PLACE and pity those who hire themselves out promising to let you OBSERVE them and LEAD you into worship by watching them.

Jesus said My WORDS are SPIRIT and they are LIFE.

God's breath is articulated by Jesus so that His WORDS are SPIRIT in an audible sense. In the same way our BREATH is detected by someone's EARS and the invisible "wind" becomes audible.

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Re: Confused

October 15 2016, 4:52 PM 

Quote: "The Son who is the IMAGE or forma of the Father is called a Prophet, Priest and King: His name is Jesus."

How true!!! Trinitarians detest the words "is the IMAGE OF." They remove "the IMAGE of" from the clause and retains only the word "IS" in their narrative.

The Scripture teaches:

2 Cor. 4:[4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Col. 1:[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Can you imagine referring to the only one true God the Father as a "prophet"? Or as a "priest"?

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Confused

October 15 2016, 7:37 PM 

Those early scholars who used the Greek concept of "trias" understood the Scriptures.

God is like the Sun. The waves travel through space as breath or spirit travels. The waves are separate from the source but the waves are not co-equal with the Sun. No one sees the waves and no one sees the invisible breath. However, when the waves or breath strike something to make them visible the are again something different from the source. God as Word delivers the Word TO Jesus by His "breath" so that what Jesus articulates IS both Spirit and the Word. The LOGOS does not give the great EARTHLINGS even a right to an uhh or oooh or I think. Jesus does not PRAY for them and the people who work so desperately hard as legalism may be aware of their Just-Human status.

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

5457. phos, foce; from an obsolete fa¿w phao (to shine or make manifest, especially by rays; compare 5316, 5346); luminousness (in the widest application, natural or artificial, abstract or concrete, literal or figurative): — fire, light.

Jesus said earlier:

John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

That debunks those who get rich by telling people that THE light is still available to them. However, the Spirit or Wave which delivered light to Jesus ceased to exist just. Jesus said that no man knew the Father but the Son and those to whom He revealed them. Just like any covenant or testament anyone who tries to slip back--as some claim--and get the same light Jesus revealed. Paul said in effect "fools love to be fooled" but they will both fall into the ditch which is the PIT. You stop worrying about God's justice when you see how evil many can be. Jesus said that they are OF the world and His disciples are the aliens.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Confused

October 15 2016, 8:44 PM 

2Cor. 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2Cor. 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully;

Craftiness is panourgia or SOPHISTRY: a Sophists is a teacher who "sells learning at retain" what Paul called CORRUPTING the Word. The only motive for tampering with the Word is in Ephesians 4 LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.. Sophists deceive primarily by speaking in a metrical form, singing and playing instruments especially in a presumed "holy" place.

but by manifestation of the TRUTH commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

The TRUTH is the Word or Logos which OUTLAWS everything but speaking that which is written for our learning: it does not even permit "introductions" by which the speaker sets you up.

The lost are those OF the earth and the tiny, little flock is ON the earth anxious to depart. Jesus said that God HIDES from the wise, sophists which are self-authoring speakers for hire (a hireling by definition), singers or instrument players. Jesus said that truth had been hidden in PARABLES from the beginning of this new world from the Jewish clergy.

2Cor. 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

The do not believe because the Kosmokrater or world ruler has already blinded them. They even mock Christ by holding classes pretending to teach a Christian World View which is an oxymoron.

2Cor. 4:4 In whom the god of this WORLD hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
.....lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ,
.....who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If you say that Jesus shined the LIGHT (God and truth) into His own face you may just be foolish. However, if you sell your body and say that Jesus IS God in the FLESH which cannot EMIT light then John calls you an ANTICHRIST and you cannot work hard enough to escape. Again, they don't fill most religious organizations (the World's) because they were taught by equally foolish "doctors of the law" but because they have a WORLD VIEW and we repeat that the personified SPIRIT is named Apollon-Abaddon as the World Ruler. The Judas Bag for "carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments" is named after the Kosmokrater or World Ruler.

Eph. 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places

The MARK of those ON the earth but nor OF the earth is:

2Cor. 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.
2Cor. 4:6
BREATHwho commanded the light to shine out of darkness,
.....hath shined in our hearts, give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God the face of Jesus Christ.

Looks like Jesus didn't shine the light in His OWN face after all. The light is KNOWLEDGE one of those HATED "doctrine" words replaced by the doctrines of the DEVIL their father Jesus marked by "they speak on their own."

2Cor. 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels,
.....that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

As ALWAYS anyone who self-authors as a male violated the command for the female not to exercise such authority.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Confused

October 15 2016, 9:56 PM 

It should be noted that the Just Jesus theology dismisses the epistles as being divisive letters to divided churches. However, they don't teach just Jesus because He commanded that people teach and observe what HE commanded.

They do not know anything about the prophecy of Messiah because they are Prophet ignorant even when they write commentaries. The FULFILL the prophecies of the "dogs compassing about Jesus" and molesting Him based on the definition of "reproaches". The picture of their worship team was recorded for us on clay vessels:

[linked image]

Max Lucado promised "quiet strings" before the new Purpose Driven church was in place and now still promises "quiet" stuff and had DEFAULTED on the "traditionalists" so it's Molech's Drums or GET OUT.

[linked image]

They all love those Voodoo drums. A tabret or small drum has the same meaning as TOPHETH or HELL

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Oct 16, 2016 10:10 PM

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

The Father: The Only True God

October 15 2016, 11:10 PM 

Stan, here's your comment [a great one] earlier:
I am not confused about how my original post about The Great Commission digressed so quickly. However, how is Ken talking about there only being God the Father and Jesus the Son, when in The Great Commission recorded in Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus references baptizing disciples "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" - does He not?
Let's discuss "the Holy Spirit [of God]" later on, OK?

For now, I would like to quote a passage (among several) that I think will stick -- a passage that is clearly specific: that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is not God. When the word "only" is included in a statement or clause, all else is eliminated and only one is excepted [as in the "exception"]. Here it is, and, reader, please pause for a moment and really study it (John 17, KJV):
  • [1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
  • [2] As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
  • [3] And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: The Father: The Only True God

October 16 2016, 3:00 PM 

Father, Son and Spirit are never PEOPLE but RELATIONSHIPS. Only by hallucinating can you believe that the Son IS the Father or that the Spirit or mental disposition of man or God is another PEOPLE living inside of you.

noun: father; plural noun: fathers; noun: Father; noun: Father of the Church; plural noun: Fathers of the Church; plural noun: Fathers; plural noun: the Fathers; plural noun: the Church Fathers 1. a man in relation to his natural child or children.

boy or man in relation to either or both of his parents.
noun: son; plural noun: sons

noun: spirit; plural noun: spirits 1 the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.

those qualities regarded as forming the definitive or typical elements in the character of a person, nation, or group or in the thought and attitudes of a particular period.

JESUS THE CHRIST is the singular Name.
Jesus is the Father in the Greek sense of Being the only TEACHER ordained by GOD Who is not defined in human terms.

Jesus is the Son in the sense that He is OBEDIENT to God the only Divine Father..

Jesus said "see me-see the Spirit." God BREATHED and Jesus SPOKE the WORDS of God: He said therefore that MY WORDS are spirit and Life.

Jesus is also God's IMAGE or FORM of God in a SINGULAR image: that is to refute the pagan trinities who are most often male or female triplets.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Oct 16, 2016 3:39 PM

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

God the Father: He Is GREATER THAN His Son Jesus Christ

October 16 2016, 3:43 PM 


In your question regarding "the Father" and "the Son" (when Matt. 28 also mentions "the Holy Spirit"), let us determine first if there's only ONE GOD.

(Just for your information in advance in regard to "the Holy Spirit," the last passage below teaches us -- contrary to the Trinity Creed -- that the risen Jesus Christ would "go away, and come again unto you" and is THE COMFORTER, "The SPIRIT OF TRUTH. It is NOT what Trinitarians believe to be "the Holy Spirit" as God Person No. 3.)

Let's consider the following passages which need no explanation:
  • My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:29, KJV)

  • Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. (John 13:16, KJV)

  • Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. (John 14:28, KJV)

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Great Commission DISABLED by Trinitarians

October 17 2016, 11:14 AM 

The Great Commission is stalled in place by neo-trinitarians who have no historic scholar agreeing with the UNIQUE teachings invented for the first time in history by H. Leo Boles first preached at now FHU and published in 1942 by the Gospel Advocate and supplied by the Sunday School Movement bypassing APT elders by them.

The QUALIFICATION for baptism and having "HIS SINS WASHED AWAY" to receive A holy spirit able to BE "Washed with water INTO the Word" or into the School of Christ is:

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God

Contradicting the trinitarians whom John identifies as ANTICHRISTS,

Num. 23:19 God is NOT A MAN, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

The MAN and SON OF MAN was not declared A Son OF God until He was baptized. He was not a sinner but He was NOT given "A" holy spirit or the breath of God until He obeyed the PATTERN prophesied by God as the Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 1.

Theologians from whom God HIDES dominate as "Thought Leaders" and quote:

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath SEEN me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?.

We will discuss SEEN the Father to STATE that Jesus was NOT the father later.

If they dared read further they would understand Jesus' claim that He speaks ONLY PARABLES to the Wise or Sophists: self-authoring (Scribes) and sermonizing hyporites (Phariseess): The Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 29 and Ezekiel 33 identifies them as "performance preachers for HIRE (a hireling), singers or instrument players. He tosses in the AUDIENCE who swarm around them as hypocrites because they have NO INTENTION of obeying any Words from God:

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am IN the Father, and the Father IN me?

SO THAT: the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
.....but the Father that dwelleth in me,
.....he doeth the works.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am IN the Father,
.....and the Father IN me:
NOT inside of
.....or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

The FATHER Breathes (spirit) INTO Jesus without METRON (or meter) so that Jesus articulates what the Father breathes (Spirit, inspirits, Inspires) Him to say and verify HIS office by Signs an Wonders. JESUS COMMANDS and EXAMPLES SPEAK OR READ and never SING or SERMONIZE.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also,
.....BECAUSE he is the Son of MAN.

God says that He is not a MAN nor the SON OF MAN.
Jesus says that He is the SON OF MAN.
God gave Jesus AUTHORITY (which He did not have) BECAUSE He is the SON of Man.
Because Jesus obeyed and was baptized God confessed Him as a SON OF GOD.
John Mark Hicks and the LU apostates say that JESUS was always a "god" but God as usual makes the doctors of the law into a laughing stock.

Jesus PROVED that He was the SON OF MAN who is now a SON OF GOD. To PROVE that He was NOT God but the IMAGE (seen) of God Jesus says that He HEARS the Spirit or Mind of God which is the meaning that He is inspired but DISPROVES that He is the Father who INSPIRES. Father is the "thought" or "will" in all historic Trinities but never the LITERAL indwelling of God or HIS Spirit (mind). Just like the prophets--and Jesus was a PROPHET--Jesus "heard" God because God's BREATH or spirit INSPIRED him.

John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. The Proof that He--and not your great pretenders--is the ONLY one God has Inspired following in the same way as He inspired the writing Prophets.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
John 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me;
.....and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
John 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
John 5:34 But I receive NOT testimony from man:
.....but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

John bears testimony that Jesus was NOT the "SUN" but the LIGHT of God as His image.

John 5:35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.

However, Jesus had a GREATER witness than just WORDS by great pretenders whose WORDS are LIES because they cannot PROVE that the "spirit" that tells them to IMPOSE Wine, Women and Music is from God. So, they use WITCHCRAFT or sorcery (music) and prove THEIR right not to be BURNED TO A CRISP by 40 days of prayer. Contrary to the MESSIANIC JEWS with authority at LU, when the Prophecies about Jesus as Holy Scripture were fulfilled the ASSAULT of the Jacob-Cursed and God-Abandoned Levites would be destroyed.

John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John:
.....for the works which the Father hath given me to FINISH,
.....the same works that I do, bear witness of me,
.....that the Father hath sent me.
John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
.....Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his SHAPE

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(no login)

Stan the Man

October 17 2016, 10:02 PM 

Stan may never be appreciated here. Not aligning with the right party affiliation.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Stan the Man

October 17 2016, 10:34 PM 

Stan will do just fine: He understands that the latter day pseudo churches have no family connection to the historic Church of Christ.

Thomas Campbell: "who, at the same time are ignorant of, and even averse to, the religion it inculcates; and whilst others profess to embrace it as a system of religion,

without imbibing the spirit, realizing the truth, and experiencing the power of its religious institutions; but merely superstruct to themselves, rest in, and are satisfied with, a form (acts) of godliness; and that, very often, a deficient, imperfect form, or such as their own imagination has devised;

"let us, with an open bible before us, distinguish and contemplate that religion which it enjoins and exhibits--I mean the religion of christianity, for it also exhibits the religion of Judaism;
.....but with this, in the mean time,
.....we christians have nothing directly to do--
.....we derive our religion immediately from the New Testament. TCz

Thomas Campbell said that Baptism is the first act of WORSHIP:

"But that this may be the case, the next immediate ordinance of the christian religion, namely,

the reading, I mean the musing upon, or studying the Holy Scriptures;
taking them up in their connexion, and meditating upon the subjects they propose to our consideration, with a fixed contemplation of the various and important objects which they present.

This dutiful and religious use of the bible, (that most precious, sacred record of the wonderful works of God, the only authentic source of all religious information,) is inseparably connected with, and indispensably necessary to, the blissful and all-important exercises of prayer and praise.

Hence it is evident, that if we would be spiritually minded, spiritually exercised in this delightful and heavenly employment,

we must be filled with the Spirit;
and if we would be filled with the Spirit,
we must be filled with the word; the word of Christ must dwell in us richly; for we have no access to the Spirit but in and by the word.

The SPIRIT in Ephesians 5 is the WORD OF CHRIST in the colossians 3 parallel. Singing as an ACT or works or legalism intends to "make the lambs dumb before the slaughter" to prevent them from being filled with the WORD which Jesus said is SPIRIT (john 6:63).

You push SINGING but you have no intention of using the "songs and sermons" inspired by the Spirit OF God.

The "progressives" are not CHRISTIAN institutions and they are not RESTORATION churches.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Oct 17, 2016 10:41 PM

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

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