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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Stan the Man

October 18 2016, 10:38 PM 

Dave,

Stan seems interested in the responses to his thread.

You're appreciated here, Dave, even though you're aligning with the liberal, progressive "change agents."

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Between Christ and God: Who Is the Head of Whom?

October 18 2016, 2:13 AM 

HEBREWS 10:
  • [4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
  • [5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
  • [7] Then said I, Lo, I come . . . to do thy will, O God.
  • [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
  • [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
  • [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God


I CORINTHIANS 11:3 -- But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Between Christ and God: Who Is the Head of Whom?

October 18 2016, 9:15 AM 

Kephalis from h2776 is2777. kephalis, kef-al-is´; from 2776; properly, a knob, i.e. (by implication) a roll (by extension from the end of a stick on which the manuscript was rolled): — volume.

Now, we can stand by for some KNOB to tell is what Hebrews DID NOT SAY!! waiting waiting waiting


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Between Christ and God: Who Is the Head of Whom?

October 18 2016, 11:16 PM 

I CORINTHIANS 11:3 -- But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

God
Christ
Man
Woman

Paul is speaking about the 'uncovered women prophesiers' in 11:5: these women, like David, prophesied with musical instruments. Prophesying means to make music by those who pretended that the gods only spoke to what is well known as the MAD WOMEN OF CORINTH.

In 1 Timothy 2 Paul wants the men to lift HOLY hands and prevent WRATH or an orgy from breaking out. The women were to be silent because only women and a few juicy males ever engaged in singing and playing instruments and claiming that THEY could lead you into the presence of God--for a huge price and loads of conflict.

Both were to be sedentary and silent or quiet so that the absolute pattern Christ ordained for the church in the wilderness could take place.

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time
.....hath in every city
.....them that PREACH him,
.....being READ in the synagogues
.....every sabbath [REST] day.


Rest or PAUO as "another day" has the same meaning as SABBATH: it is used widely to say STOP the rhetoric, singing, playing instruments, acting or whatever so that you can SPEAK the LOGOS where both SPEAK and LOGOS is the opposite of ODE or SING or PLAY.

Jesus was absolutely subject to God so that He spoke only what God breathed (spirit) into Him without measure, metron or meter. He SPOKE excludes METER which deceives.

The singular Purpose Driven Purpose:

1Tim. 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, [kept SAFE]
.....and to come unto the knowledge of THE TRUTH


The TRUTH is the LOGOS or Regulative Principle STOPPING anything but READING or SPEAKING that which is written for our LEARNING. LEARNING is never grasped by progressives.

1Tim. 2:5 For there is
.....one God,
.....and one mediator BETWEEN God and men,
.....the MAN Christ Jesus;


From the PATTERN in the wilderness a mature, non-mercinary male was commanded to READ the Word-only.

[linked image]

When this assembly was called a trumpet gave one blast much like a church bell. However, "vocal or instrumental rejoicing or rhetoric" was outlawed.

Lev. 23:3 Six days shall work be done:
.....but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest,
.....an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein:
.....it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.


This had nothing to do with a calender but you worked six days and land owners were commanded to give the seventh day as rest. In the New Testament that is the First Day of the Week.

Outlawed:
h4397. mal}ak, mal-awk´; from an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically, of God, i.e. an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher):—ambassador, angel, king, messenger


A synagogue which quarantined the godly people from the usual "worship" or WORK day was led by men over groups as small as ten families. The only way to worship or give attention to God is to let HIM be the teacher.


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Is GOD the Mediator Between God and Man? NO!!!

October 19 2016, 2:31 AM 

Why not?
  • For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (I Timothy 2:5)

  • Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. (Romans 8:34)

  • But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God (Heb. 10:12)


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Is GOD the Mediator Between God and Man? NO!!!

October 19 2016, 9:01 AM 

But this MAN, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand OF God (Heb. 10:12)

BILL But, no where in the Bible does it say that he was NOT just dumb and sat down on his OWN hand because this MAN was God.

As usual, Bill is correct. But, Paul being inspired, was smart enough to say just that.


 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Is GOD the Mediator Between God and Man? NO!!!

October 19 2016, 9:14 AM 

I kinda doubt that Donnie's usual posting histrionics of red-and-blue text, boldface text, underlining, and all caps will be enough to convince people that Jesus is not God. happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Is GOD the Mediator Between God and Man? NO!!!

October 19 2016, 10:06 AM 

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Donnie is just proving that you cannot PROVE anything in Scripture to those without EYES and EARS to see;

Deut. 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Is GOD the Mediator Between God and Man? NO!!!

October 19 2016, 11:01 AM 

A person who is secure and confident in his beliefs has no need to use histrionic tactics as Donnie does to make his beliefs known. Such tactics reflect agitation and frustration.

When someone claiming that Jesus is not God resorts to those histrionic tactics on a religious message board, the first thing that comes to mind is a wild-eyed, megalomaniacal religious fanatic jumping up and down, waving his arms, and shouting for everyone to listen to him. The fanatic's behavior is certainly irrational and arises either because people disagree with him, which slams his ego; or it's because he actually thinks that all who believe Jesus is God will be damned to hell. Of course, the Scriptures provide no such condemnation; hence, the fanatics's behavior is rightly labeled as irrational, and his postings should be taken with a truckload of salt.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Is GOD the Mediator Between God and Man? NO!!!

October 19 2016, 11:23 AM 

Donnie thanks you for the commercial: I am certain that some church will contact him shortly and pay him a fortune from the Widow's purse to be their WORSHIP LEADER. Wow! I would certainly attend to watch that man go---

Your move, Donnie.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Is GOD the Mediator Between God and Man? NO!!!

October 19 2016, 8:50 PM 

Bill,

Your argument against the Scripture is such a long paragraph -- no content, no logic, no scripture references; but it's full of descriptive words: histrionic tactics ... megalomaniacal religious fanatic, shouting, irrational, ego, damned to hell, behavior, truckload of salt. Really impressive.

Wow!!! Wow!!! Wow!!!

All I've done is quote scriptures ... quote scriptures ... quote scriptures -- self-explanatory scriptures. You must be having extreme difficulty comprehending third-grade level passages.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Is GOD the Mediator Between God and Man? NO!!!

October 19 2016, 11:33 PM 

When someone claiming that Jesus is not God resorts to those histrionic tactics on a religious message board, the first thing that comes to mind is the Spirit OF God speaking through Jesus:---

Matt. 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father:
.....and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father;
.....neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son,
.....and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.


Jesus the SON gave the APOSTLES the Revelation which they left for OUR memory some on clay vessels. Peter said that this PERFECTING the Prophets where God BREATHED by the Spirit OF Christ. Peter said that this is not subject to private interpretation or further expounding which is the MARK left for FALSE TEACHERS.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man,
.....no, not the angels which are in heaven,
.....neither the Son,
.....but the Father.


Trinitarians say that Jesus was lyinng.

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to ME of MY FATHER:
.....and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father;
.....and who the Father is, but the Son,
.....and he to whom the Son will reveal him.


If you say that Jesus was mistaken because He WAS REALLY GOD.
That despises the Words of Jesus, despises Jesus and all of Scripture and the latin for despising and not accepting the testimony of Jesus BLASPHEMY

Then you keep mocking Jesus and cannot stop because God has a very sensitive trigger finger and sends strong delusions so that they CANNOT speak the truth.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 20, 2016 11:39 AM


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Scriptures Quoted Are Irrefutable

October 22 2016, 3:43 PM 

Good news is that while we've quoted only a few passages of the Scripture to provide strong evidence that there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD THE FATHER, these passages are irrefutable. The only argument (which is illogical and nonsensical) against the presentation of the truth about God, the Father OF Jesus Christ, is the criticism of font size, bolding, italization, underlining, etc.

Followers of Christ should have no difficulty in accepting the truth:
1a. That "the MAN Jesus Christ" is our mediator between God and us (I Tim. 2:5).
1b. That God cannot be the mediator between God Himself and us (I Tim. 2:5).

2a. That the head of Christ is God (I Cor. 11:3).
2b. That God cannot be the head of God Himself (I Cor. 11:3).

3a. That Christ addressed God as "O God" (Heb. 10:7,9).
3b. That God did not address God Himself as "O God" (Heb. 10:7,9).

4a. That it was Jesus Christ who died on the cross and God resurrected Him.
4b. That it was not God Who was killed and resurrected.

5a. That it was Christ who cried, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46; Mk. 13:34).
5b. That it was not God who cried, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46; Mk. 13:34).

6a. That it was Christ who said: for my Father is greater than I (John 14:28).
6b. That it was not God who said: for my Father is greater than I (John 14:28).

7a. That the man Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God the Father (cf. passages).
7b. That it is not God sitting at the right hand of God.

More evidences from the Scripture are coming or to be discussed

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Scriptures Quoted Are Irrefutable

October 22 2016, 6:53 PM 

Donnie says: 1a. That "the MAN Jesus Christ" is our mediator between God and us (I Tim. 2:5).
1b. That God cannot be the mediator between God Himself and us (I Tim. 2:5).


Ignoring the dozens of proof they claim:
The Father is God
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God.

The Father is not the Son nor the Spirit
The Son is not the father nor Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the father nor Spirit

However they are all ONE but only in the sense of being good friends.
Neither of the THREE can do anything by themselves.

That defines the Father as incompetent.
That defines the Son as incompetent.
That defines the Spirit as incompetent.

The LU tribe says that the Son can do nothing but by the help of the Spirit Person.

HOW TO TRUMP ALL RECORDED HISTORY PROVING FROM GOD THAT HE IS ALONE AND THERE WAS NO GOD BESIDE HIM.

EASY: they quote what they think is a baptismal FORMULA requiring them to pronounce it about FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT.

IMPOSSIBLE: Peter and everyone else in the Bible baptized in the SINGULAR name of Jesus Christ. That is because only Jesus has the authority to accept you as a CHRISTIAN-DISCIPLE-STUDENT and not a legalistic "worshiper" REQUIRING a whole team of hirelings to enable YOU to "worship" and to enable GOD to accept it.

So, question: Why is the entire Bible so confused by defining ONE GOD and ONE SON enabled by God to SPEAK for everyone once and for all? It is because there are two races on the earth: Jesus is the creator of the NEW world which is RESERVED UNTO FIRE:

Proving that there are TWO RACES on the Earth
Those OF the World whose Father is not our God.
Those OF truth as the LITTLE FLOCK of lost spirits whose Father IS God.
This is not predestination because God is evil but it is predestination based on WHO IS YOUR FATHER.
Cain is the FATHER of all players of musical instruments; he and Judas are the sons of perdition, and he, says Paul, is OF that wicked one.

Baptism of Spirit (wind) and Fire is for the RACE OF VIPERS defined as the serpent in Genesis and the Beast in Revelation.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them,
.....If God were your Father,
.....ye would love me:
.....for I proceeded forth and came from God;
.....neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech?
.....even because ye cannot hear my word (Logos, Regulative Principle)
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil,
.....and the lusts of your father ye will do.
.....He was a murderer from the beginning,
.....and abode not in the truth,
.....because there is no truth in him.
.....When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own:
.....for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.


The serpent in the garden was a musical enchanter-enchanteress: The Spirit OF Christ called him-her the singing and harp-playing prostitute in the garden of Eden. Paul's "corrupting the Word" and the more civil Greeks called the musical performers PROSTITUTES. The same OPHIS (serpent) and SORCERERS (speakers, singers, instrument players" take the MARK in the end of the game: the beast is "A new style of music or Satyric (cappella) drama."

Proving is impossible for those whose father is the Devil and they shudder that God sent a MAN with the power to DEFEAT their father in the lives of those who leap at the invitation and want to be baptized. John didn't baptize any of the Race of Vipers: the Greeks call them the Serpent's Seed.



 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Scriptures Quoted Are Irrefutable

October 22 2016, 9:55 PM 

That there is only one God is not the question. All Christians believe that. It's evidently important for Donnie to believe that Jesus is not God. Let him interpret the Scriptures as he believes.

Others believe that Jesus is God according to their interpretation of the Scriptures:

The Messiah (Jesus) is the mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6).

Jesus is God with us (Matt. 1:23).

Jesus and His Father are one (John 10:30).

He who has seen Jesus has seen the Father (John 14:9).

Thomas proclaimed Jesus as Lord and God (John 20:28). Jesus neither refuted that nor rebuked Thomas.

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are grouped together (Matt. 28:19). Nothing is said that they are three separate beings. Instead, we believe they all exist simultaneously as One God.

The Bible is full of metaphors. One is that God has a "right hand" (for the righteous) and a "left hand" (for the wicked). In reality, we know that since God is holy and is a Spirit (hence, the Holy Spirit), God literally does not have "hands" as humans do, nor does God literally have physical parts (eyes, ears, mouth, etc.) as humans do. When the New Testament described Jesus as ascending to heaven and sitting on God's "right hand," it was a metaphor. Donnie scoffs that if Jesus is God, then God couldn't sit on his own right hand. Let's not be deliberately obtuse here. We believe that Jesus was God in the form of a physical man, but when He ascended back to heaven whence He came, He ascended back to the righteousness (the metaphorical "right hand") that was God from the beginning.

Donnie scoffs and implies that if Jesus were God, He could not call to Himself, "My God, my God, Oh God," could not be a mediator, etc. Again, let's not be deliberately obtuse from the limits of human thinking. We believe that Jesus as God in human form on earth was subject to Himself as the superior, Spiritual God in heaven, yet they were one and the same, just different manifestations. To some, this is impossible, but again, God has no limits and can do all things. Human limitations do not apply to God.

I trust that what I've written will be meaningful to readers with open minds.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Scriptures Quoted Are Irrefutable

October 22 2016, 10:53 PM 

Bill: Others believe that Jesus is God according to their interpretation of the Scriptures:

You have no Scripture to interpret.

Bill: The Messiah (Jesus) is the mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6).

Nope! His NAME shall be called... You are saying that the Spirit OF Christ Who breathed into the prophets were too ignorant to say like you do that "He will BE the Almighty."

Isaiah 9:6 and his NAME shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor
Bill says that Jesus IS the mighty...
A SON always bears the NAME of His Father.
Wonder why Bill insists on MISPEAKING?

Bill: Jesus IS God with us (Matt. 1:23).

God is always with the believer. WE sing "God be with you till we meet again.":

Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Acts 17:28 For IN him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
2Cor. 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
Phil. 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.


Bill: Jesus and His Father are one (John 10:30).

False: Jesus and the ONE GOD THE FATHER are not "singular" but united. Jesus wants all believers to be one just as He the SON and the FATHER are one but NOT one person. We are all united so that the Son cannot be denied authority because HE speaks what the Father tells him to speak.

He who has seen Jesus has seen the Father (John 14:9).

2Cor. 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Cor. 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Col. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:


God is INVISIBLE: Jesus was VISIBLE. Therefore, Scripture does not say that the SON is the FATHER but the Light shines in the FACE of Jesus and we see the LIGHT but not the SOURCE.

2Cor. 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the FACE of Jesus Christ.

God the FATHER commands the LIGHT to go forth and bring light or KNOWLEDGE.
The Light strikes the Face of Jesus Christ
We see the same LIGHT which IS GOD but we are not god.

Bill: Thomas proclaimed Jesus as Lord and God (John 20:28). Jesus neither refuted that nor rebuked Thomas.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
both Lord and Christ.


Jesus was owned as SON only after He was baptized. He was not LORD unto God gave Him that Office. You are saying and saying that Jesus MADE HIMSELF Lord and that the SON owned himself as SON.

"God" is a generic word: any thing or one a person worships is their god.

1Cor. 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, OF whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him


John said that Thomas said:
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.


The same John removed any DOUBT:
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the SON of GOD; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


No, John says, Jesus is not the GOD being considered: Jesus is the SON of God.










    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 22, 2016 11:22 PM


 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Scriptures Quoted Are Irrefutable

October 22 2016, 11:31 PM 

Ken believes that Jesus is not God. Bill believes that Jesus is God. Both believe they are right. Each person must determine for himself whether Jesus is or is not God, based on his interpretation of Scripture. To say that someone is definitely wrong in this particular matter is the mark of the megalomaniacal religious fanatic.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Scriptures Quoted Are Irrefutable

October 23 2016, 12:03 AM 

Bill says that Jesus is a megalomaniacal religious fanatic.

‘Like most megalomaniacs, I went through the typical world-domination phase.’ Then along came Hillary!

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
John 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you:
.....but HE that SENT me is true;
.....and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
John 8:27 They understood NOT that HE spake to them of the Father.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,
.....When ye have lifted up the Son of man,
.....Then shall ye know that I am he,
.....and that I do nothing of myself;
.....but as MY Father hath taught ME,
.....I speak these things.


"MY Father has taught ME" means in the rational world that ME is not my FATHER.
Jesus is the SON OF MAN
God says that HE is not the SON OF MAN
Bill has a problem with GOD.

Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


Jesus must be megalomaniacal according to Bill

John 8:29 And he that SENT ME me is with me:
.....the Father hath not left me ALONE;
.....for I do always those things that please him.


If the SON was the FATHER
And the SON was not ALONE
The BILL needs to study to become megalomaniacal

Jesus the SON does those things that please the FATHER
And the son WAS the Father
Bill is saying that Jesus is esctatic or OUT OF HIS MIND since C. Leonard Allen says that God is esctatic.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 23, 2016 12:08 AM


 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Scriptures Quoted Are Irrefutable

October 23 2016, 12:27 AM 

Ken you grow funnier and more deliberately obtuse with advanced age. It's not Jesus but you who say that I am wrong. Therefore, you are obviously the megalomaniacal religious fanatic. So sad indeed. happy.gif

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

The Trinity and Roman Catholicism (1)

October 23 2016, 12:48 AM 

Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:

He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19. “The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.” -- Joseph Ratzinger (pope Benedict XVI) Introduction to Christianity: 1968 edition, pp. 82, 83. The Trinity baptism and text of Matthew 28:19 therefore did not originate from the original Church that started in Jerusalem around AD 33. It was rather as the evidence proves a later invention of Roman Catholicism completely fabricated. Very few know about these historical facts.


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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