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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Is the KDV (Ken, Donnie Version) better than the KJV??

October 29 2016, 9:29 PM 

Looks like a loose screw in his led Donnie to believe that he has an "open mind." Needs to be tightened up a bit. LOL happy.gif

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Is the KDV (Ken, Donnie Version) better than the KJV??

October 29 2016, 11:02 PM 

Bill,

That explains why after all the years of brainwashing, I came to reject the pagan-influenced, Catholic-invented, Protestant-acquired/inherited "Trinity Creed."

I guess there are those who prefer to continue being brainwashed. happy.gif

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Is the KDV (Ken, Donnie Version) better than the KJV??

October 29 2016, 10:50 PM 

Rancor,

Bill said earlier: [Donnie] is "taking a few days "off" to collect his thoughts and regroup.

Rancor [you] just said: Donnie, I see why it took you so long to answer my post.

Sound similar to me.

OK, never mind. You are correct: this is not about Bill.

Oh, now I need to "seek some help...soon"?

Would you like to volunteer to help? Why don't we work together to do more study and research? Actually, I'm waiting for some "intelligent" argument from serious Bible students. Know why? Because what I've heard so far has been complaints about font size, bold text, etc. Rather than: "Thanks for the research and new evidence I have not heard before but would like to consider...."

You may be right in thinking I have "a loose screw" happy.gif -- probably a strong indication of being open-minded, rather than "closed-minded."

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Is the KDV (Ken, Donnie Version) better than the KJV??

October 29 2016, 10:50 PM 

Rancor,

Bill said earlier: [Donnie] is "taking a few days "off" to collect his thoughts and regroup.

Rancor [you] just said: Donnie, I see why it took you so long to answer my post.

Sound similar to me.

OK, never mind. You are correct: this is not about Bill.

Oh, now I need to "seek some help...soon"?

Would you like to volunteer to help? Why don't we work together to do more study and research? Actually, I'm waiting for some "intelligent" argument from serious Bible students. Know why? Because what I've heard so far has been complaints about font size, bold text, etc. Rather than: "Thanks for the research and new evidence I have not heard before but would like to consider...."

You may be right in thinking I have "a loose screw" happy.gif -- probably a strong indication of being open-minded, rather than "closed-minded."

 
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Rancor
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Goodbye

October 30 2016, 12:05 AM 

[linked image]

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Re: Goodbye

October 30 2016, 11:29 PM 

"Actually, I'm waiting for some "intelligent" argument from serious Bible students."

Donnie said this. I believe him, for a change. He wants research, intelligent argument, or anything, but.......he don't want INSPIRED SCRIPTURE from the 66 Holy Words. It doesn't help his argument.

 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Goodbye

October 31 2016, 12:52 AM 

All puns and jokes aside, we've given plenty of serious arguments from the Bible. The problem is that Donnie only accepts arguments that agree with his peculiar brand of theology, that agree with his peculiar interpretation of the Scriptures. In other words, Donnie believes that if your argument doesn't match his, it's not "intelligent." You really cannot have a valid discussion with someone like Donnie, whose attitude says that when it comes to understanding the Scriptures, he is omniscient.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Goodbye

October 31 2016, 1:15 AM 

Dave,

The answer is simple.

Of course, the Holy Scripture is inspired. But proper translation must correspond to the accuracy of the manuscript. Was the manuscript in its original form or was it copied by the scribes and/or others even with minor errors? The inspiration of God's Word is never in question. But there's that human element that must be considered. The originality of the manuscript. That translators are human beings and may have biases, since doctrines had already been formed even before translations began.

Just a brief example: Have you done some research on why there is only one mention of "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" -- the main passage that Trinitarians use to defend that man-made doctrine? On the other hand, there are numerous verses in the new Testament that state: "in the name of Jesus Christ." Especially and including Acts 2:38 -- the famous church of Christ defense of baptism for the remission of sins. Check it out, Dave.

I believe research is important in cases like this. It is interesting that the manuscript that Eusebius (260-340AD) -- centuries before modern Bible translations began -- quoted from said: make disciples "in my name." (By the way, I will be able to prove with Scripture that Eusebius was correct in quoting "in my name.")



 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

OOPS Again

October 31 2016, 10:43 AM 

Donnie said "But proper translation must correspond to the accuracy of the manuscript. Was the manuscript in its original form or was it copied by the scribes and/or others even with minor errors? The inspiration of God's Word is never in question. But there's that human element that must be considered. The originality of the manuscript. That translators are human beings and may have biases, since doctrines had already been formed even before translations began."

Donnie, All of these many men who translated were scholars and men who loved God. They MAY HAVE had biases, but THIS is where God comes in. THIS is what you can't fathom. They weren't inspired authors, but they were LED by God. They were humans who were LED by God to translate His Word. YOU KNOW that God was/in control, but still YOU THINK you can do better than all these men combined. There is your cause for "oops" again.

"The King James translators said this of the cumulative nature of their work--"Neither did we think much to consult the Translators or Commentators, Chaldee, Hebrew, Syrian, Greek or Latin, no nor the Spanish, French, Italian, or Dutch; neither did we disdain to revise that which we had done, and to bring back to the anvil that which we had hammered: but having and using as great helps as were needful, and fearing no reproach for slowness, nor coveting praise for expedition, we have at length, through the good hand of the Lord upon us, brought the work to that pass that you see."

 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

Re: OOPS Again

October 31 2016, 11:37 AM 

One author said "Examining the Options of John 1:1
First, the argument strikes me as giving only two choices - either Jesus is the one true God (YHWH) or He is "a god". There are no other options open when dealing with John 1:1. Since both Christianity and Judaism affirm monotheism (the belief that there is only one true God), then translating John 1:1 "a god" leaves the reader with a problem. What kind of god is Jesus?
If Jesus is God Almighty, then He cannot be created because God is eternal. Psalm 90:2 tells us "From everlasting to everlasting, you are God." If Jesus is some other kind of god (or if something else is meant by using the term "god" for Jesus), then he would be a created being.
From this point, I think the best way to clarify John 1:1 is by looking at it in context. The most compelling verse I have found for Jesus being God Almighty is actually John 1:3. There we read "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."(NAS)
John 1:3 becomes crucial to our debate because it makes a very specific claim. If anything had any type of beginning at all, it was begun by Jesus. You cannot even infer the word "other" in the text because the last part of the verse says "apart from Him nothing has come into being that has come into being." In other words, John states there are two groups of things: all those things that have a beginning and all those things that are eternal, and Jesus is not one of those that have a beginning."

Donnie, John 1:14 says that "And the Word was made flesh,..." meaning that the Word was not created, but MADE flesh. The Word was not created but was always with God, thus being God. The Word became Jesus. You are trying to understand God. You may claim to know Him, as I do, but we will NEVER understand Him and all His wonderful Ways. At least I admit to that.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: OOPS Again

October 31 2016, 12:47 PM 

One author said "Examining the Options of John 1:1
First, the argument strikes me as giving only two choices - either Jesus is the one true God (YHWH) or He is "a god"
.

In prophecy and fulfillment Messiah as a SON is called an EL or Elohim and NEVER Jehovah. There are MANY Elohim but only ONE Lord-God or Jehovah who is the only TRUE God or Deity. Jesus affirms:

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


Jesus who bore the sins of the whole world when God named Him SON after His baptism.
g37.hagiazo, hag-ee-ad´-zo; from 40; to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate: — hallow, be holy, sanctify.

A HOLY spirit (ours) only when we obey that FORM which Jesus obeyed. Would God the SANCTIFIER need to be SANCTIFIED?

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


By definition an Elohim (a generic word for anything or anyone considered a RULER such as Moses.)
The Jews accused Him of calling Himself the GOD of Scripture.
Jesus said I AM THE SON OF" the God you think I blaspheme.

You and the Jews say that Jesus claimed to be THE GOD.
Jesus refuted them by saying that He was-is the SON of the God of their ancestors.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 31, 2016 1:00 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

Again, We ask....for the hard of hearing

October 31 2016, 1:20 PM 

Hebrews 1
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Why would God call His very own Son...."O God?"

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Again, We ask....for the hard of hearing

October 31 2016, 9:14 PM 

Look no farther, Dave. Just read the following verse. Well, here are both verses (Hebrews 1):

[8] But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
[9] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.


In the original manuscript, there was no distinction between "god" and "God" as all the letters were capitalized. What you see is the English grammatical rule of capitalization.

Notice that god Jesus (whom God made both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36) has the Father as his God, according to verse 9.

Truly, Jesus Christ has a God: "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:" (Eph. 1:17, KJV)

God is also the head of Christ (I Cor. 11:3, KJV>

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Again, We ask....for the hard of hearing

October 31 2016, 10:31 PM 

Dave: Psalm 90:2 tells us "From everlasting to everlasting, you are God." If Jesus is some other kind of god (or if something else is meant by using the term "god" for Jesus)

Context, Dave, Context: honor the Spirit: IT IS Adonay

Psa. 90:1 Lord [Adonay], thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
Psa. 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. [El]


"Adonay Lord - title, spoken in place of Yahweh in Jewish display of reverence"

In the beginning the ELOHIM created or cast down the heavens and earth: In Isaiah 45 Jehovah did not make the mess.

Gen. 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD-God made the earth and the heavens,

Because whatever you pay attention to as having value is your GOD including the worship team with ruling authority is one of the gods or ELOHIM, Scripture always makes certain that the Lord (Jehovah) is the only true Elohim.

Jer. 10:8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
Jer. 10:9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

Jer. 10:10 But the LORD is the TRUE God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.


Jesus is emmanuel as a form of ELOHIM. Jesus gets the sole attention of a Christian and He is our ONLY RULER. However, Jesus is not not called JEHOVAH. In Zechariah 3 Jesus or Joshua is Jehovah-Saves or Jehovah working through some agent. Joshua as ruler in the wilderness has the same name as Jesus but Joshua was not Lord (Jehovah) God (elohim).




 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Is the KDV (Ken, Donnie Version) better than the KJV??

October 31 2016, 10:57 PM 

Donnie: Truly, Jesus Christ has a God: "That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:" (Eph. 1:17, KJV)

Eph. 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

That has the same meaning that after baptism and the remission of sins, WE have A holy spirit or A good conscience, consciousness meaning a CO-perception of the Word. If you DENY that "Baptism doeth now save you" then you have not been baptized to REQUEST that enlightenment.

Luke points out and agrees that "salvation by grace through faith" begs the question SAVED FROM WHAT?

Luke 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Luke 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Luke 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;


The enemies are echthros Satan or echidna vipers: The present Jews not Israelites were called a RACE OF VIPERS or a CROOKED RACE.

Luke 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Luke 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
Luke 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,


This is done at baptism according to Romans 6.

Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom. 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,
but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


Luke 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people BY the remission of their sins,
Luke 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,


Remission of sins is never by faith only but by obedience in baptism.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Oct 31, 2016 11:31 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

Unbelievable

November 1 2016, 11:02 AM 

Now, Donnie is calling The Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, "god Jesus."

You, Donnie, are an enemy of the cross.

But still, even, thanks for letting me post the PURE KJV. God is using our enemies (you and Ken) to do His bidding. POST ON!!!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Unbelievable

November 1 2016, 11:49 AM 

In its primary sense, Isaiah 9:6 speaks of Isaiah's Son. His son will be an elohim.

Is. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God [Elohim] , The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus would not be JEHOVAH or Lord-God. and in fulfilment:

Matt. 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Emmanuel "Immanuel, a type name of Isaiah’s son:—Immanuel." In prophecy and fulfillment Jesus would be an ELOHIM but not Jehovah-Elohim.

Elohim has nothing to with a SPIRITUAL Deity or the Almighty: Jesus would not BE the Almighty but His NAME would be CALLED after His FATHER.

Ex. 18:10 And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians.
Ex. 18:11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them..


Jesus an elohim said that My FATHER is Greter than I. Any ruler good-bad-ugly is an elohim. It was the ELOHIM who creted, bara or CAST DOWN the heavens and earth speaking of earth domination by the Sumerian clergy.

Ex. 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges [Elohim] ; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Ex. 22:8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges [Elohim], to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods.
Ex. 22:9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; [Elohim] and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.

Ex. 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, [Elohim] save unto the LORD [Jehovah] only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Judg. 6:31 And Joash said unto all that stood against him, Will ye plead for Baal? will ye save him? he that will plead for him, let him be put to death whilst it is yet morning: if he be a god [Elohim], let him plead for himself, because one hath cast down his altar.

Judg. 11:24 Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh THY god [Elohim]
giveth thee to possess? So whomsoever the LORD OUR God shall drive out from before us, them will we possess.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Nov 1, 2016 10:35 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

Primary Sense Indeed

November 1 2016, 12:02 PM 

Like Hillary, Ken is switching his story from not believeing that Isaiah 9:6 isn't calling Jesus 'Mighty God' or 'Eternal Father' to believing that now the author of Isaiah is talking about his own son.

Kens said "In its primary sense, Isaiah 9:6 speaks of Isaiah's Son. His son will be an elohim. "Primary sense"

Now that is rich Ken.

I realize that you are up in some age Ken, but the Democrats sure could use your help. You would ratchet it up for them to a higher level.

If you don't succeed, don't worry about try try again. Make up some other tall tale.


 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Primary Sense Indeed

November 1 2016, 1:46 PM 

So Ken believes that in Isaiah 9:6, the prophet is allegedly speaking about his own son, Isaiah, Jr., huh? Well, we've known for quite some time that we need not take Ken's postings seriously, what with his wild imaginations and fanciful musings on mythology and his damnation of singing and music. Now this Isaiah's son business just drives another nail in the proverbial coffin. This site is really a hoot to read, not for the moderators' "teachings" (they've become abominably heretical lately), but for the moderators' laughable insanity that floods this site. LOL happy.gif

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

WAKE UP Ken

November 1 2016, 10:06 PM 

Get my name off of your post. Can you do that???

 
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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

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Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

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The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

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10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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