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What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016 at 10:44 AM
Visitor (Rancor)  (no login)
from IP address 68.74.186.218



I have always believed in KJV Bible and never questioned it. In recent years, I was shocked that some people on this site find the KJV Bible to be in error. I request the Moderators of this site to identify and list the errors so others may be aware. I would ask that the moderators simply list the errors in this post and we can discuss in detail in future individual posts.

Thanks.

 
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Visitor (Rancor)
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68.74.186.218

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 11:19 AM 



Moderators, please make your list.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 12:07 PM 

Matt. 1:23 -- confusing the meaning of a "name" (e.g., Donald = ruler of the world) and the real person (Donald is not the world's ruler). It's not a case of translation.

John 1:1 -- in most of the Bible versions this passage is not translated correctly.

Isaiah 9:6 -- inaccurate translation in most Bible versions.

Matt. 28:19 -- many translations render "in the name of F,S,H.S." -- the only passage with this "name"; scores of passages in the N.T. refer to "the name of Jesus Christ"

More of the problem than anything else is the flat rejection of passages that contradict acquired (borrowed) beliefs and teachings.

Most of these issues have already been discussed in various threads. But we can discuss these issues again here.




 
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Bill
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99.179.116.207

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 12:26 PM 

Donnie's "examples" mostly concern the Trinity or whether Jesus is God. Now since Donnie denies that Jesus is God and denies that F,S,HS are the Trinity, then his bias compels him to brand those passages as "incorrectly translated."

 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 12:47 PM 

Check out your New Testament Greek. You'll see.

Carefully study why "F,S,H.S." is mentioned only once and many, many passages mention "in the name of Jesus Christ -- whether in reference to baptism or healing. Investigate why God gave the name of Jesus Christ as "the name ABOVE all names" (Philippians 2:9).

Maybe you need to remind God that He forgot to give "the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit" as "the name above all names."

 
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Bill
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Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 2:19 PM 

Maybe Donnie needs to be reminded that "in the name of the F,S,HS" means "by the authority of the F,S,HS," just like "Halt in the name of the law" means "Halt by the authority of the law." The law has no "name," just as F,S,HS are not "names." F,HS,HS are designations. Therefore, "in the name of Jesus" means "by the authority of Jesus." The same parallel applies there.

Donnie is still playing the "numbers game" by stating that "F,S,HS" is mentioned only once, whereas "in the name of Jesus" is mentioned more often. The Baptists play the same numbers game when they say the number of "salvation by faith only" passages far exceed the number of "salvation by baptism" passages, so they say baptism is not essential for salvation, whereas only faith is.

The Bible is not based on "the majority of like passages rules." A biblical passage is just as valid if it occurs only once or a thousand times. Therefore, baptism in the name of (by the authority of) F,S,HS is just as valid as baptism in the name of (by the authority of) Jesus.

Since Donnie believes his previous baptism in the name of F,S,HS is still valid and that he need not be rebaptized in the name of Jesus (even though he now promotes baptism in the name of Jesus and denounces F,S,HS baptism), then his arguments on that subject seem superfluous and have no merit.

 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 3:35 PM 

Nope:

1. All power (authority) was given by GOD Himself to Jesus Christ and to no one else -- that power (authority) was not given to your perceived three-Gods-in-one (the pope's Trinity). That means that God did not give ALL power: (1) 1/3 to God the Father Himself, (2) 1/3 to Jesus Christ, (3) 1/3 to the Trinity's version of the Holy Ghost.

2. This I can agree with you: Therefore, "in the name of Jesus" means "by the authority of Jesus." So, it is not by the authority of the Catholic Trinity's three-Gods-in-one.

3. The number of "saved by faith only" passages found in the Bible is zero. To use that Baptist analogy is illogical -- it must be your own logic.

4. Baptism is for the "remission of sins," however the baptizer pronounces it. In fact, Acts 2:38, which is the main passage that churches of Christ refer to in defense of salvation clearly indicates so. Bill, read it: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins."



 
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Bill
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Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 7:28 PM 

I see that I must make a clarification for Donnie. There are far more scriptural passages that require faith for salvation but that do not simultaneously mention baptism; fewer passages mention baptism for salvation. The Baptists use that as one argument against baptism as a requirement for salvation: faith passages surpass baptism passages, which is playing the "numbers game." Since I was formerly an organist for a Baptist church, I know of what I speak. A Baptist pastor even once told me that there is no Scripture in which baptism is an absolute requirement for salvation. He was quite wrong, of course.

The typical wording that churches of Christ use is: "Upon the confession of your faith in Jesus Christ and in obedience to His command, I now baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit [FSHS] for the remission of sins." That was the wording used when I was baptized and when many others I've witnessed were baptized. I'm sure Donnie was also baptized with the FSHS wording. Frankly, I've never heard a baptizer say, "I now baptize you in the name of Jesus..."; the wording has always included FSHS. Now, Donnie claims that baptizing in the name of FSHS is wrong. No, it's not wrong, it's just a reflection of his peculiar bias against the Trinity.

So when Donnie emphasizes that there are far more baptize-in-the-name-of-Jesus passages, compared to only one baptize-in-the-name-of-FSHS passage, he's obviously playing the "numbers game," just as the Baptists do. In reality, both wordings are acceptable.

 
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Donnie
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 8:25 PM 

Bill,

This debate has nothing to do with your "numbers game."

The oddity is in your not recognizing the fact that throughout the New Testament, it's all about the truth that it was God who gave Jesus "a name which is above every name" (Philippians 2:9). God did not give Jesus "the name of F-S-HS."

The New Testament also unequivocally reveals that God (the Father of Jesus and is also our Father) gave His Son "all power" in heaven and earth.

As you have frequently asserted (and I fully agree with you on this) that the power/authority was given to Jesus. Again, the power/authority was not given by God the Father individually or collectively to the three-Gods-in-one [your Trinity].

I pray to our Father in heaven with "in the name of Jesus." Do you pray with "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost," Bill?

Col. 3[17] -- And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

I know, I know: how anxious you are to change that passage to state: Do all in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

The Roman Catholic Church, which invented the Trinity doctrine, has already admitted to adding "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" to the text in Matt. 28:19 (cf. Catholic Encyclopedia). It doesn't make sense that while you accept the RCC teaching of the Trinity, you reject its claim that it changed the text from: "Go and make disciples of all nations IN MY NAME."





 
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Bill
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99.179.116.207

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 9:43 PM 

Donnie, you repeatedly bring up "in My Name," as if that's the only wording we can use when we baptize. If that's so, then why do you refuse to be rebaptized in the name of Jesus, since you were originally baptized in the name of FSHS, as untold millions of other people have been (and still are). You obviously believe that baptism in the name of FSHS is incorrect (because of your bias against the Trinity), yet since you assert that your previous FSHS baptism is still valid, then why do you argue against it so much? You might as well say, "Do as I say, not do as I do," which just doesn't wash. Don't uphold a double standard. Practice what you preach.

 
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Donnie
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 10:13 PM 

Bill,

The argument is in using "the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" as the basis for the Pope's Trinity Creed.

If the Roman Catholic Church (cf. Catholic Encyclepedia) had not changed it from "IN MY NAME" [since Jesus himself was speaking and giving his commandment directly to his disciples), then there would not even be an argument.

1. In his name ...
2. In my name ...
3. In the name of Jesus Christ


... would leave no doubt in the Scripture's consistency that God gave Jesus "a name above every name"; that God gave ALL power and authority to Jesus only.


Please think, Bill. How and why God would give "a name above every name":

(1) to God the Father Himself,
(2) to Jesus also, and
(3) to the Trinity's version of "the Holy Ghost"?

How and why would God the Father give ALL power or authority:

(1) to God the Father Himself,
(2) to Jesus also, and
(3) to the Trinity's version of "the Holy Ghost"?

 
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Bill
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99.179.116.207

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 10:44 PM 

Donnie, if you argue for baptism in the name of Jesus but you refuse to be rebaptized in the name of Jesus, then you don't practice what you preach. You have no credibility whatsoever.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 11:12 PM 

Bill, let me say this again:

The argument is in using "the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" as the basis for the Pope's Trinity Creed.

I did not put on Christ in baptism because I had already been saved. I put on Christ in baptism in order for my sins to be remitted in the blood of Jesus the Lamb and become God's child. The baptizer's verbalization did not do the cleansing.

Maybe I should ask you that since Acts 2:38 says to repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, why don't you, Bill, be rebaptized? No, Bill, I would not ask you that.

Again, "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" is no evidence for the Pope's man-concocted Trinity dogma.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 11:28 AM 

There are hundreds of Bible versions and translations out there. Why so? Because of "human differences."

God's inspired Word is inerrant. I'm speaking of the original, earliest manuscripts as more reliable than later manuscripts -- this must be taken into consideration.

God's inspired Word is inerrant. Scribes and transcription (reproduction/copying of manuscripts is not unerring. Translators and translations (especially with doctrinal biases and prejudices) are not unerring, either.

The title and content of the initial post shall remain unedited. That since the KJV is being singled out, it would seem unfair. Compared to other translations of the Bible, the KJV (1611) remains as my favorite (personally speaking), and is overall more accurate.

Let me point out that whatever text or passage is improperly translated in the KJV, the same is true with other versions.


 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 11:57 AM 

The KJV-Only means the original 1611 copy which included the apocrypha. There was a threat against anyone who removed these books.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Apocrypha-Books/

I have a 1828 printing and they are missing!!1

Add hereunto, that niceness in words was always counted the next step to trifling, and so was to be curious about names too: also that we cannot follow a better pattern for elocution than God himself; therefore he using divers words, in his holy writ, and indifferently for one thing in nature: [see Euseb. li. 12. ex Platon.] we, if we will not be superstitious, may use the same liberty in our English versions out of Hebrew and Greek, for that copy or store that he hath given us. Lastly, we have on the one side avoided the scrupulosity of the Puritans, who leave the old Ecclesiastical words, and betake them to other, as when they put WASHING for BAPTISM, and CONGREGATION instead of CHURCH: as also on the other side we have shunned the obscurity of the Papists, in their AZIMES, TUNIKE, RATIONAL, HOLOCAUSTS, PRAEPUCE, PASCHE, and a number of such like, whereof their late Translation is full, and that of purpose to darken the sense, that since they must needs translate the Bible, yet by the language thereof, it may be kept from being understood. But we desire that the Scripture may speak like itself, as in the language of Canaan, that it may be understood even of the very vulgar.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 12:19 PM 

The ONLINE KJV I use contains the following:

39 O.T. Books
27 N.T. Books

and

Apocrypha
1 Esdras
2 Esdras
Tobit
Judith
Additions to the Book of Esther
Wisdom of Solomon
Prologue to Wisdom of Jesus Son of Sirach
Wisdom of Jesus Son of Sirach
Baruch
Letter of Jeremiah
Prayer of Azariah
Susanna
Bel and the Dragon
Prayer of Manasseh
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees

When I do searches for counts and references, I read them, but exclude them from the results that I present to the public.

 
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Visitor (Rancor)
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68.74.186.218

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 12:23 PM 


Thanks gentlemen, things are not as bad as reported. Good day.

 
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Bill
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99.179.116.207

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 12:11 PM 

The KJV has sustained the test of time since 1611. However, when some people find that certain KJV passages do not suit their peculiar theology, they brand those passages as "improperly translated" or as "spurious" and deny them or seek ways to get around them.

Persuading the Christian world that the KJV is in error is about as futile as persuading the Christian world to stop celebrating Christmas. Yes, we know there are detractors of the KJV and of Christmas among us, but the KJV and Christmas have both been around so long that it would be virtually impossible to change either one. Both are here to stay.

 
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Donnie Cruz
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ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 12:35 PM 

Research for evidences for or against is very significant. Accepting the truth is not the issue. It's accepting man-made beliefs blindly, without question and verification, that is the issue.

God's Word is inerrant. But as I said, scribes and translators are as human as Bill and Donnie. And you don't even see the error-prone nature of humankind. We're not changing the KJV. When there are variations in hundreds of Bible versions and translations, it is time to look into the original manuscripts. The earliest, original manuscripts are older than all modern-day translations of 1611 and forward.

 
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Visitor (Rancor)
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68.74.186.218

Re: What's Wrong With The KJV Bible?

November 25 2016, 1:32 PM 



I think I will stick with the KJV Bible. Praise God!



[linked image]

 
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