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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Is it ok to not support any local Church of Christ? (1 Corinthians 16:1-2 ; Hebrews 10:25)

November 29 2016, 11:18 PM 

Q1: I did not want to mention Lindsey unless you did first. Yes, it was Lindsey's post to which I was referring earlier. Hopefully, with you reading and commenting, she will do the same.

I realize that we often discuss the nature of God (via the Trinity dogma) and music in the assembly, but there are many other doctrinal topics that are not brought up at all. Perhaps, you can bring up some of these topics that we can discuss civilly.

Regarding Q6: It's pleasing to hear that there are those like you who defend the truth about putting on Christ in baptism for the remission of sons. There are change agents in the brotherhood who now advocate that the body of Christ encompasses all faiths; that "musical worship" with the aid of instruments and the "worship team" [a.k.a. "Praise Team"] should dominate the events in the assembly; that by God's grace one is saved (sins forgiven) first and then be baptized later; etc.

By the way, how deeply familiar are you with the history of the Restoration Movement?

 
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Stan
(no login)
68.53.71.114

Re: Is it ok to not support any local Church of Christ? (1 Corinthians 16:1-2 ; Hebrews 10:25)

November 29 2016, 11:45 PM 

In 1784 James O'Kelly (Methodist Preacher) questioned the appointment of Francis Asbury as one of two superintendents of the church, believing he held too much power, and that churches should be autonomous. In 1793 he and others broke away from Asbury's leadership and called themselves Republican Methodists. In 1794 they changed this to "Christians" and eventually adopted the six "Cardinal Principles of the Christian Church."

Then there was the Cane Ridge Revival of 1801...and by 1802 Stone decided he could not live under Presbyterian doctrine or church organization. I am Church of Christ and am familiar with Elias Smith (Calvinist Baptist), Thomas and son Alexander Campbell (Presbyterian), etc. By 1807 Elias Smith and Abner Jones had established 14 congregations of Christians in England.

Why do you ask Donnie?

Galatians 4:16
Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Is it ok to not support any local Church of Christ? (1 Corinthians 16:1-2 ; Hebrews 10:25)

November 30 2016, 12:55 AM 

Thanks for the statements you made in regard to the early leaders of the Movement.

I ask to find out if you're aware of "change agents" operating in the brotherhood -- how that they have transitioned mega churches of Christ into Community Churches by promoting culture-driven approaches and methodologies to "grow the church." They intend to "rewrite" the RM history "in their own way."

In addition to the common teachings about the New Testament church of Jesus Christ, baptism, non-denominationalism, I'm also interested in what you know about their stances on music, premillennialism, the Trinity, etc.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Is it ok to not support any local Church of Christ? (1 Corinthians 16:1-2 ; Hebrews 10:25)

December 4 2016, 2:26 PM 

Bumped for paging....

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Is it ok to not support any local Church of Christ? (1 Corinthians 16:1-2 ; Hebrews 10:25)

November 28 2016, 7:23 PM 

Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

alēth-euō , Id.Metaph.1062a25:—Pass., “ho logos -euetai” is in accordance with truth, Top. 132b4,

[linked image]



 
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Rocnar
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Is it ok to not support any local Church of Christ? (1 Corinthians 16:1-2 ; Hebrews 10:25)

November 28 2016, 7:57 PM 



Ken, you have had a big day sitting on Donnie's egg all day. Bedtime.

 
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Visitor (Rancor)
(no login)
68.74.186.218

ATTN: ALL

November 28 2016, 8:48 PM 


Ken, I'm in there with you. I called myself "Rocnar" in my last post. I wonder how Rocnar's "quest" is going?

Goodnite.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: ATTN: ALL

November 29 2016, 12:51 AM 

Stan, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 is used as the ROOT and POWER POINT of all religious evil.

It would be nice if you would agree about that passage.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Nov 29, 2016 10:23 AM


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

OK not to support any local church of Christ?

November 29 2016, 11:28 PM 

Stan,

Q1: I did not want to mention Lindsey unless you did first. Yes, it was Lindsey's post to which I was referring earlier. Hopefully, with you reading and commenting, she will do the same.

I realize that we often discuss the nature of God (via the Trinity dogma) and music in the assembly, but there are many other doctrinal topics that are not brought up at all. Perhaps, you can bring up some of these topics that we can discuss civilly.

Regarding Q6: It's pleasing to hear that there are those like you who defend the truth about putting on Christ in baptism for the remission of sons. There are change agents in the brotherhood who now advocate that the body of Christ encompasses all faiths; that "musical worship" with the aid of instruments and the "worship team" [a.k.a. "Praise Team"] should dominate the events in the assembly; that by God's grace one is saved (sins forgiven) first and then be baptized later; etc.

By the way, how deeply familiar are you with the history of the Restoration Movement?

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

The Chicken or the Egg, Baptism or Salvation

November 30 2016, 3:50 PM 

Donnie said "...that by God's grace one is saved (sins forgiven) first and then be baptized later; etc."

Acts 10
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

If these BELIEVERS weren't saved before being baptized, then why would the gift of the Holy Ghost be poured out among filthy souls?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: The Chicken or the Egg, Baptism or Salvation

November 30 2016, 4:55 PM 

Peter was sent to tell Cornelius HOW TO BE saved. The only thing Peter commanded was that they be baptized.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

When believers are baptized they receive the gift of A holy spirit which is simply removing UNholiness which is never done other than by request by obeying the command to be baptized. This is what Peter was was commanded to teach. God commanded Peter to preach to Cornelius who was a Godfearer and was honored by God. It would be silly to send Peter to command baptism if Cornelius was already a godly man.

The Account in Acts to was to prove to the doubters that God sent salvation to the Gentiles without obeying the Law. Peter concluded that no one could forbit baptism, He COMMANDED the to be baptized.

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

When rehearsing the Event, the Spirit (Jesus is Holy Spirit) commanded Peter to go preach and Cornelius notes that:

Acts 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

If the gift was salvation they why would Peter be withstanding God.

THE PURPOSE WAS TO CONVINCE BUT NOT TO CONVERT:

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted REPENTENCE unto life.

If Cornelius was saved by a direct act of a Spirit person before Peter told Him what to do to be saved, then Cornelius was saved without repentance or turning TOWARD God.

Again from chapter 10 the only COMMAND Peter spoke
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Jesus as Holy Spirit returned as promised and "poured out what ye see and hear." This happened only once and the sign was wind or BREATH.

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he BREATHED on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

That was finished in the upper room. Many years later Peter has to return to the upper room to see anything similar. This was to prove that Gentiles could not be REFUSED baptism.

The Spirit or Breath HAD BEEN poured out at Pentecost: the result of God breathing into you is that you SPEAK. When Cornellius spoke in HEBREW the enemies of baptizing Gentiles were silenced and COULD NOT FORBID baptism. What would be the purpose of WASHING if their sins had been washed away.

Cornelius was not SAVED by speaking in tongues.



There is never any remission of sins or being translated into a heavenly kingdom without baptism.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Nov 30, 2016 8:06 PM


 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Vote Ken Sublett for Donald Trump's Chaplain

December 1 2016, 12:07 AM 

Which happened first in Acts 10? The gift of the Holy Spirit or baptism? Baptism wasn't first. Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? The baptism came AFTER receinvg the gift.

Ken, one minute you say, being a vicar, "...the gift of A holy spirit which is simply removing UNholiness..." then you say differently by saying this gift is "The Spirit or Breath HAD BEEN poured out at Pentecost: the result of God breathing into you is that you SPEAK."

Instead of ASSUMING that you THINK you know what this gift is, put on some pants, be a man, and admit you just don't know.

One minute the gift is removing unholiness, the next it is speaking. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW.


You asked "What would be the purpose of WASHING if their sins had been washed away." BECAUSE IT HAPPENED. Acts 10 confirms such.

Why would the thief on the cross be with Jesus in paradise if he had been a sinner all of his life? This thief had not been giving any time on earth to show a godly life after Jesus found his heart to be right.

WHY? Because JESUS and GOD can do ANYTHING They want.

How about that for your pattern???

ALSO, does Acts 10:47 say the GIFT of the Holy Ghost, or THE Holy Ghost? Don't tell me what Acts 2:38 says. I KNOW what it says. Does Acts 10:47 give the same story as does Acts 2:48? NO!!! Scripture DOES NOT support your theory that is JUST a gift of the Holy Spirit. Again, you flounder like Hillary because you don't know when to say that you just don't know.

Get out your eubius, your book of Enoch, the DRB, the original letters, and show us that you know more than the rest of us and show us what you are made of...AGAIN!!!

Help him out here Donnie.....AGAIN!!! Show me that grand bit of sarcastic humor that you need to keep yourself and Ken proving beyond a shadow of a doubt...that neither of you have a heart for God.....AGAIN!!!




 
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Bill
(no login)
99.179.116.207

Re: Vote Ken Sublett for Donald Trump's Chaplain

December 1 2016, 7:59 AM 

Dave said, "Get out your eubius..."

What is a "eubius"? Could Dave in his passionately rapid typing have meant "Eusebius"? Just wondering... happy.gif

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: The Chicken or the Egg ... Dave Misquoting Donnie

December 1 2016, 2:02 AM 

==========================

Donnie said "...that by God's grace one is saved (sins forgiven) first and then be baptized later; etc."

==========================


Dave,

You misquoted me in the 1st paragraph of your earlier post above.

That's not what I said. Instead, that's what many of "the change agents" in the brotherhood believe -- similar to the Baptist teaching of: Be saved FIRST; be baptized LATER.

 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

CENI with EXAMPLE is not Always Correct

December 1 2016, 11:31 AM 

Donnie,
Which one happened first in Acts 10? Were they baptized first? No. I realize that this is perhaps just one example that goes against the grain, but they were filled with the Holy Ghost first. Do you think that the Holy Ghost would be with them if they weren't saved? They were baptized AFTER they were saved in this example. So if the Scriptures attest to this example of saved first, then baptized later, why is it a Baptist teaching?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: CENI with EXAMPLE is not Always Correct

December 1 2016, 4:04 PM 

They were not filled with a GOD PERSON. Spirit is BREATH and breath is connected with SPEAKING. Not even Jesus had a "spirit" person fly into His body.

If you cannot DEFINE words and Scripture which leaves on path you should not agonize over it. Baptism is the SEAL and also the proof of being CLOTHED WITH CHRIST and if you even debate the issue remember that Jude referencing The Book of Enoch warned against OLD SPIRITS which have been UNLEASHED from the smokey pit. I told you that Apollon is the only PERSONIFIED spirit and the leader of the Muses or Locusts identifying ugly people selling body parts retail meaning Corrupting the Word.

[linked image]


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: The Chicken or the Egg ... Dave Misquoting Donnie

December 1 2016, 12:30 PM 

THE Holy Spirit is THE MIND of Christ. When He Speaks what the BREATH of god revealed to Him His WORDS are Spirit and they are life.
Before Peter commanded anything the BREATH of God caused Cornelius to SPEAK: the Jews knew that He was speaking Hebrew. This was a SIGN that the Gentiles could be SAVED by being BAPTIZED into Christ or into the School of Christ without becoming a Jews.
THE another (fuller) Comforter is Jesus Christ the Righteous.

This SIGN did not save Cornelius because even he was smart enough to know that someone would come and SPEAK WORDS telling him hot to be saved. Even Baalam's Ass cam speak if God wants it to but the ASS was not qualified to be Washed with water INTO the Word or into the school of Christ. If you say that Cornelius was saved then you DIMINISH God Who did not need Peter to DEMONSTRATE how the Gentiles now ceremonially pure by the Gace of God might be SAVED. If you say that Cornelius was SAVED because God caused him to speak HEBREW and praise God then you say that Cornelius was deceived because He was waiting for Peter to TELL HIM WORDS by which he could be saved. Peter COMMANDED him to be baptized.

Baptism requests A holy spirit (never a people) so that they could read BLACK text on BROWN paper. If you keep calling Jesus a liar for commanding that ALL NATIONS be discipled by BAPTISM and a life of teaching what JESUS commanded to be taught. Cornelius was already a god fearer and approved by God.

It is OUR Spirits which need to be SANCTIFIED so that words like "obedience" will stick in them.
Here are a few things you HAVE repudiated:

become as
little children
,
born [again] of the
Spirit,
gift of the Holy Ghost.
renewing
of YOUR mind,
walk in NEWNESS of life
have put on
Christ

YOU hath he QUICKENED
raised us up
together
,
made us sit
together in heavenly places

RENEWED
the
spirit of YOUR
mind
;
washing [baptism]
of REgeneration
RENEWING OF
the [your]
Holy
Ghost

OUR HEARTS sprinkled
from AN evil conscience,
an APPEAL [request] to God for A clear conscience

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: The Chicken or the Egg ... Dave Misquoting Donnie

December 1 2016, 3:55 PM 

Why would the thief on the cross be with Jesus in paradise if he had been a sinner all of his life? This thief had not been giving any time on earth to show a godly life after Jesus found his heart to be right.

Jesus can do whatever He wishes: you are not Jesus.

Paradise means the "garden" or "park." The body of Jesus went into the garden of Gethsemane that day: He went to preach the pre flood people.

The Thief died on the cross because he was a thief. He lived before the day of Pentecost and the Last Will and Testament went into effect. He had no reason or right to be baptized IN ORDER to be saved FROM that (this) crooked generation or race of vipers. He did not need A holy spirit or a Co-perception of the Word as the ONE PIECE PATTERN for a Christian who is a Disciple who is a Student of Christ.

If you despise the Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 1 which is the prophetic promise of Mark 16

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Believeth or pistos means to TRUST which means to COMPLY.
Believeth not is Apistos which means "I will not comply" and is the mark of the TREACHEROUS enemies of christ.

He that complies and is baptized SHALL BE SAVED.
He that does not comply CANNOT be baptized because they are the Race of Vipers to whom the Baptism of spirit (wind) and of FIRE. is sent. They are now being consumed by the BREATH of their own MOUTHS.

The Gospel is carried by a WINNOWING WIND and it separates the Little Flock of Lost spirits who are NOT OF THIS WORLD from the Viper or Serpent race. The Word blown by the WIND separates the chaff from the wheat and heeps it up in MEGA CHURCHES to make the THE SPIRIT OF BURNING easier.

Those who GLADLY receive the WORD (Logos, regulative principle) want to be BAPTIZED. They are the children of God Jesus was sent to rescue from an evil race. That should be a VISIBLE sign to the watching world which is CONDEMNED at the same time. The flood was a prophetic type of God putting the godly into a "coffin" covered outside and inside by the blood-red bitumen by which the drowning world was condemned.

 
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Dave
(no login)
162.229.29.37

Ken Sublett.....Vicar of God???

December 1 2016, 4:20 PM 

Ken said "Jesus can do whatever He wishes: you are not Jesus."

Gee, Einstein, where did you get that deduction from?

Deduce this one too....If I am not Jesus, then neither are you and quit acting like Jesus has given you special instruction to be His vicar. He doesn't need you to figure it out for the rest of us. You are living proof that He has taken away some understanding from those whom abuse His Word.

This junk about your understanding of a spirit not being in us and that it is breathed, etc. etc. is YOU showing us that you really don't understand it either. Thank you for proving that beyond a doubt. Your problem, Ken, is that you don't want to do as Jesus commanded you to which is to seek and save the lost, you want to resave those that are already saved. You are even trying now to leave out the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit when baptizing......next up is baptizing them in the name of Ken Sublett???

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Ken Sublett.....Vicar of God???

December 1 2016, 5:24 PM 

I am just trying to be Jesus' McGuffy Reader.

Everyone knows that A spirit lives within us as Breath and as MENTAL DISPOSITION: our spirit is not another person--normally.

Our spirit becomes AN unholy spirit when we violate the rules of human conduct or against God.
When our sins are WASHED AWAY by baptism--because Jesus told me so--the WE have A holy spirit.

Spirit is like Word: and is not the NAME of a god person you believe is required for the Father to speak to His Son.
Spirit is always the spirit OF something or some one and God is the only Holy Spirit but His name is not Spirit. God gave Jesus the promise of the Holy Spirit which is Jesus in "another" form as Holy Spirit as ASSIGNMENT.

If you cannot grasp that WORD is what God SPEAKS then don't be surprised that you cannot grasp that Spirit is never the name of a person but a description of their ground of being. Spirit is the opposite of Flesh: Spirit is not the opposite of Jimmy.

[linked image]

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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