Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  
Stan
(no login)
68.53.71.114

Re: God gave NO FUNDING and no ROLE

December 7 2016, 1:04 PM 

Deleted: Repeat: Toro!Toro!Toro!:


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Dec 7, 2016 6:34 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Stan
(no login)
68.53.71.114

Re: God gave NO FUNDING and no ROLE

December 7 2016, 2:43 PM 

Deleted: Repeat: Toro!Toro!Toro!:


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Dec 7, 2016 6:34 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Humility
(no login)
23.117.130.209

Re: God gave NO FUNDING and no ROLE

December 7 2016, 4:16 PM 

Stan I have an idea. I did note that you left out your postscript with the Toro postings. But cool down for a little bit.happy.gif

With a little work you can rework your image, and at the same time disarm any of those you want to teach. You can repolish your format with a post script like this:


We should be ever learning, and coming closer to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:7

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: God gave NO FUNDING and no ROLE

December 7 2016, 6:36 PM 

Stan-Dave-etal posted the same thing five or six time. So, I deleted them. Next time, they will just not show up.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: God gave NO FUNDING and no ROLE

December 7 2016, 9:51 PM 

Didache on Giving.

http://www.piney.com/Prdidache.html

Didache 1:5 Give to every one that asketh of thee, and ask not again;
for the Father wishes that from his own gifts there should be given to all.
Blessed is he who giveth according to the commandment, for he is free from guilt;
but woe unto him that receiveth.
For if a man receive being in need, he shall be free from guilt;

but he who receiveth when not in need, shall pay a penalty as to why he received and for what purpose; and when he is in tribulation he shall be examined concerning the things that he has done, and shall not depart thence until he has paid the last farthing.

Didache 1:6 For of a truth it has been said on these matters, let thy almsgiving abide in thy hands until thou knowest to whom thou hast given.

Ecclesiasticus as part of the Apocrypha in the Septuagint which Jesus quotes and in the first King James Version notes:

Give to the godly man, but do not help the sinner. Ecclu 12:4.
Do good to the humble, but do not give to the ungodly; hold back his bread, and do not give it to him, lest by means of it he subdue you; for you will receive twice as much evil for all the good which you do to him. Ecclu 12: 5.
For the Most High also hates sinners and
will inflict punishment on the ungodly. Ecclu 12: 6.
Give to the good man, but do not help the sinner. Ecclu 12: 7.




 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: God gave NO FUNDING and no ROLE

December 7 2016, 10:57 PM 

Stan,

It way be worth emulating Job and his patience. happy.gif In case you didn't know it, I wish I could devote more time to responding to messages quickly, but I'm not the wealthy: "the Donald" -- I have to make a living.

By the way, we will continue our discussion. I have further questions.

Here's my brief response to your question: "Is it o.k. to not support any local church of Christ?"

Based on I Cor. 15:1-3 [including verse 3], it is o.k. to not support any local church of Christ, if the funds are not directed to the needy saints. Remember that the passage is clear about "the collection for the saints." For all we know, Paul with possible companions with him might have delivered the collection (of goods and food products, etc.) to the saints in Jerusalem. [This is not by any means the end of this discussion about the "collection plate." Meanwhile, you may be able to provide other passages that deal with "supporting the local church" besides "the collection for the saints."]

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: God gave NO FUNDING and no ROLE

December 8 2016, 11:47 AM 

Justin Martyr.

http://www.piney.com/FathJustinMFirstApology.html#P3941_747415

Chapter LXVII.-Weekly Worship of the Christians.

And on THE day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are READ, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the IMITATIONS of THESE GOOD THINGS.

Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons.

And they who are WELL TO DO, and WILLING, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need.


The role of Jesus was to LIBERATE the people from a clergy class which dominated people's time and money. The Spirit OF CHRIST in Amos:

Amos 4:4 Come to Bethel, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years:
Amos 4:5 And offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving with leaven, and proclaim and publish [boast about] the free offerings: for this liketh you, O ye children of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


The Synagogue or Church in the wilderness QUARANTINED the godly Jews FROM centers like Jerusalem or in Samaria. The one-piece pattern was to READ the Word of God ONCE A WEEK.

In all of the commands, examples and historic practice the people assembled themselves to READ or LISTEN to the Word and to observe the Lord's Supper. Even in secular assemblies the community took care of the needy but fed no clergy when their ROLE was to READ the Word and exhort everyone to understand and observe THAT READ PORTION. Anything beyond becomes a LADED BURDEN (including songs) and yanks away the freedom of the LAOS (opposite of priests and Levites) FROM a host of "programs" all week with hired administrators to force you to VIOLATE the direct command, approved examples and historic practice.

The command in all of the letters is that they be READ and not turned into sermons or songs. Reading the Word is a mutual CONFESSION that one believes and is guided by "that which is written for our LEARNING." If you reject the pattern from the wilderness onward and always repeated then you DENY Christ by denying the command to build upon or EDUCATE by the prophets and apostles which contains Holy Scripture.

"The word that is employed for this "anaginosko, anagnosis) is the technical term for the cultic reading aloud of the Old Testament in the synagogue. By applying this terminology to the reading of his own epistles he not only ascribes the same authority to the apostolic word as to the Old Testament writings...he also combines a quotation from the Old Testament with a word of Jesus and introduces the whole with the familiar formula: 'for the Scripture says.'" (Ridderbos, Hermon, Paul, P. 483 an Outline of His Theo., Eerdmans)


If you pay for all week programs and STAFF to keep up a purely human institution then you are in a CULT Purpose Driven to keep the WORD or Regulative Principle dumb and blind. Both the leader and the led fall into the ditch or PIT meaning hell.






    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Dec 8, 2016 12:18 PM


 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: God gave NO FUNDING and no ROLE

December 10 2016, 11:27 PM 

Thanks, Ken, for providing us a lesson from the writings or Justin Martyr (c. 100 - c. 165) -- about 2 millennia older than Stan or Bill [critical of Eusebius (circa 275 to 339)].

The assembly in the 1st century was not centered around "musical worship" of the Charismatics and the progressives of today. Rather, it was a gathering, a school of Christ, where reading of O.T. scriptures and memoirs of the apostles was central. Yes, there was READING in that school. The one presiding (leader) -- not "the Worship Leader" that the progressive "Church of Christ" has learned about from the denominational world -- "verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things."

Regarding "the collection for the saints," please note (not about tithing which is now taught in certain congregations) the following:

------ the well-to-do and willing to give what each thinks fit;
------ to succor the orphans and widows and those in need.

In I Cor. 16:1-3:

------ The directive was given to the Corinthians as it was to the churches of Galatia.
------ The target or recipient of their liberality were the saints in Jerusalem.
------ The first day of the week was a matter of convenience or expediency...
------ ... "that there be no gatherings when I come"
------ ... because their assembly was on the first day of the week.
------ [As how Trump says it]: "Believe me," no church today would refuse a "contribution" on Thursday.
------ Employing a "full-time" musician as "Worship Leader" (for a few hours per week...
------ ... of "hard" labor of wagging the arms, performing aerobics, REHEARSING "worship") ...
------ ... was not in God's plan; secular jobs for music professionals are out there.
------ The salary of "the Worship Leader" can support several native evangelists overseas.


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Tertullian could read.

December 12 2016, 10:59 PM 

Tertullian Apology 1 Tertullian, Apology, b. c. 155, /160, Carthage [now in Tunisia] d. after 220, Carthage

[linked image]

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Is it ok to not support any local Church of Christ? (1 Corinthians 16:1-2 ; Hebrews 10:25)

December 13 2016, 1:16 PM 

When the Tabernacle of witness--not a worship center--was built free will offerings overflowed the need: that has been the history of Churches of Christ. Every need was met. When the Purpose Drivers decided to infiltrate and do a hostile takeover, voluntary giving became the LAW OF GIVING along with the demand for TITHING.

Each (lays by) Him debunks legalism and lying about the Law of Giving under the control of the "senior preaching Pastor". The Promise Keepers and Purpose Driven concept keeps the infiltrator's AGENDA hidden until false teaching has largely displaced the owners: Then the 40 day temptation is God giving them time to repent rather than carry through with their agenda claiming that the 40 days is God's confirmation of their lying.
Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


The Lutheran Lenski agrees with the EASY TO BE UNDERSTOOD TEXT.

[linked image]

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Is it ok to not support any local Church of Christ? (1 Corinthians 16:1-2 ; Hebrews 10:25)

December 17 2016, 9:07 PM 

Let's keep the conversation going, Stan.

Here's my response I posted on December 7 2016, 10:57 PM (just in case you missed it above):
Here's my brief response to your question: "Is it o.k. to not support any local church of Christ?"

Based on I Cor. 15:1-3 [including verse 3], it is o.k. to not support any local church of Christ, if the funds are not directed to the needy saints. Remember that the passage is clear about "the collection for the saints." For all we know, Paul with possible companions with him might have delivered the collection (of goods and food products, etc.) to the saints in Jerusalem. [This is not by any means the end of this discussion about the "collection plate." Meanwhile, you may be able to provide other passages that deal with "supporting the local church" besides "the collection for the saints."]

Please note that in my last sentence I am asking you to provide biblical references to other types of collections than "for the needy." The main reason is that your question is not specific enough. It leaves me to wonder and ask: "support ... for what"? (I am eager to learn.)





 
 Respond to this message   
 
< Previous Page 1 2 3 4 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter